10 40 755 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d565dbcd20281c1de499069f71db446b.JPG 7169ad0586c8e6f07905d91c71cd4dc9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Planning Board Approves Lake Ave. Development, Water Line to Be Extended Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 5/17/49 Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9e326d1fda0dae5618ad9bfa22875b9e.JPG b09e8d5053efd0335f5137dfb8ce55ac Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Housing Development Wins OK Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 5/19/49 Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource The application of William H. Moran, local real estate dealer, before the Planning Board, for approval of a project for housing development along the east side of the Recreation Field, between Lake Ave. and Caroline St., apparently has been settled to the satisfaction of all concerned. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ccbe00665c5e0f86a21305aa940cd508.jpg d4af624237049f6e7dd18e607045d2d3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource CDTA plans meetings to discuss bus routes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 5/2/15 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Williams, Stephen Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource A new route system would be designed based on ridership data and the changes in development patterns since the last restructuring, as well as on public input. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fdaaa048eb195847bcd1cda675b9ce8c.jpg 98410b0d8bc7657e089f50e1068c8281 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/684cbc13b00906e00e70ce7f2f8458c3.jpg 28daf186eb61c32d4b1b392d15e8966a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource CDTA unveils new routes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 5/27/16 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Paul, Post Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Saratogian Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource New routes, increased frequency and reduced travel time are highlights of a revamped public transportation system officials unveiled Tuesday. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/37596ce4c2e97845442069a354945154.JPG 4c4440a4289c4c9f68539550b39aa1eb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Planning Unit Urges Low-Rent W. Side Housing Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 5/27/55 Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource Additional safe and sanitary housing of a low-rent character is 'necessary and desirable,' according to the Saratoga Springs Planning Board which, at a recent meeting proposed a second, 75 apartment project on the west side of Broadway, preferably in a location where old and dilapidated structures could be removed. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1d8135dc50f0eed8985bfe9788135548.JPG 4539424e8186cb01c189ba665ccdac5b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dr. Roohan to chair urban renewal board Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 5/6/81 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nero, Phil Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource Dr. Leo W. Roohan Jr., was unanimously voted to succeed the late James Benton Wednesday as chairman of the Saratoga Springs Urban Renewal Agency. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/071fd4131c2f7c9c23cf397d6c9caf9c.jpg feb724ba06eb1f20dc7aeb3cc272a9d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cycling toward a bike-friendly city Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/1/07 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Reinert, Ted Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Saratogian Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource Bicycle racks are scattered across downtown Saratoga Springs. The horse-headed rings, installed.beginning last year, are an ornamental version that can accomodate two bikes at once. The department of public works. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/b335c41fd8774c5733e42b949d21e11e.jpg 407b961896bba23d1a2413c791d8b0de https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e6c131cf139ef089fecae5e8e1304f56.jpg 2f8507bd56124ee0c9120f3a52f550a4 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/a2333a6d82af06d0863633665b8af6d7.jpg 5b587fdecf30c01bdffe1b17709574d3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource On Track? Details of $12 million rail project emerge Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/13/98 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Woodyard, Michael Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Post Star Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Glens Falls Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource Plans for a new rail project are emerging Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ea6fb22a0f02ce41970810673dec18a9.jpg 5a0142cd7794589318817f282a5abac9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Walking, biking, to Spa park studied Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/17/10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Coleman, Lee Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource A new study of the Route 50 corridor near the Saratoga Spa State Park recommends $1.5 million in improvements to pedestrian and bicycle access to the park and nearby city trails. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/24fe29e206584bd0ec4eb5896568fddd.JPG 41c3b95d77cb45d9e4f0439599ae574b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga URA to Sell Land For Senior Citizens Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/28/76 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wildy, Red Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource The Saratoga Springs Urban Renewal Agency last night passed resolutions in preparation to selling land for a Senior Citizens Center and use of URA land as a temporary softball field, discussed plans for businesses on Lake Avenue, and heard Mayor Raymond Watkin announce an interest from a developer to construct between 50 and 60 housing units for Senior Citizens. At this time, many properties are available. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/86a0f6a2272ba46332d12f532f39e818.jpg c02287a75a75d766933f78de15bc116d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratogians Will Greet Amtrak RR Train Today Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/8/72 Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource In an about-face yesterday, the Saratoga Springs Chamber expressed support of a New York State route of a state-mandated train service from New York to Montreal. The chamber authorized Executive Vice President Joseph W. Dalton Jr. to put together the symbols of the area's tourist attractions. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3db5d132f1524015b8ca95ba671c4f20.jpg b427bf8e931cfd1930f1124751511bcc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grant will end Spa bike trail Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/9/03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brady, Sally Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Post Star Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource State provides $100,000 infusion Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/762acc4dde5db4f9be916a5a9a6037a1.jpg 19e31d4306d12079f11f61a7ec6813f8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource A&P Opens New Lot to Ease Downtown Parking Problem Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/11/57 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Saratogian Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/bf4892c31620231c859aeffcd09944bd.pdf 67ae2365a8d4dc642ae41a995f4d9323 PDF Text Text � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adult and Senior Center of Saratoga Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 5/12/17 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Phoebe Radcliffe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1959-60YearsYoung-FundraisingLetter Title A name given to the resource Fundraising Letter Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/16/59 Description An account of the resource A letter from the Board of Directors asking people to donate to the Cetner Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Adult and Senior Center of Saratoga Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Document funding Saratoga Springs Senior Center https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/aeec88ea7737f374e032e97a67df396c.JPG 8e0bf68df8f1053393cf949811f26786 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Better Housing Demanded of Council Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/17/68 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McKechnie, Nancy Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource The Saratoga Springs City Council last night was confronted for the first time by a group demanding that the council live up to its responsibility to Negros and poor people by providing better housing. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0650c09d605931af888cb24cb577c9d2.jpg b375c034bb820dbabc79f4596a952995 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Several parking changes this year Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/20/05 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McCord, Jason Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Post Star Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource With track season, parking is challenging. Mayor Lenz hopes to open the bottom level of the Church Street parking deck by the first week in August. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hitting the trail Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/26/15 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource De LA Rocha, Kelly Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource Description of a few local areas to run, bike, and stroll. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3ad825f81084efc6512ab07f179d0e27.JPG b61ec36ccabdfbc8b86580a2644dfe01 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource City urban renewal agency hold final meeting Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/26/86 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brooks, Dick Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource The Saratoga Springs Urban Renewal Agency was terminated at its final meeting last week and milestones were established. Dr., Leo W. Roohan, chairman, was present as he was at the first meeting on May 14, 1962 and every meeting since its inception 24 years and two months ago. The only other living member of that original agency is former Finance Commissioner Mahlon C. 'Mike' Tunlso. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8cbed90fc5eb3db636dbf12b243b823a.JPG b04b4ffae057227bc0df44c21bf6dde8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Housing study: Low-income residents priced out of Saratoga Springs market Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/26/90 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Smero, Sarah M. Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource The number of low-income people in Saratoga Springs has dropped because they are being priced out of the housing market. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/393ea90fa1e883c6b7e004f29c580a91.jpg b530347483447f5d22a2813a7e9bda2b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource CDTA unveils bike-share program in four cities Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/28/17 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Robarge, Mark Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Saratogian Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource Local officials gathered in the rain Thursday morning in Washington Park to formally kick off CDPHP Cycle!, a new initiative that will allow people in Albany, Schenectady, Troy and Saratoga Springs to rent bicycles from any of 41 stations as what the authority is billing as 'healthy, affordable and fun mode of transportation. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5735d730d9e1b63f0046ed303d422f41.jpg 4e147f9b6e4428b9d25096a3adef2c47 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Touring on the Trolley Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/30/03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource McCord, Jason Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Post Star Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource Hour of Saratoga sightseeing only costs $1 and is popular with the tourists Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2036c0abd64823648f91a8b4d1f3c2aa.jpg f4250216dad84ead792da8bcb6524f3e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The city, on 2 wheels Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/30/14 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource De LA Rocha, Kelly Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource BikeShare Week offers tours, provides free rides to the public. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fbcd092ee75f63a02221871d9de6901c.jpg 7f2764296e67ace50c30f1f2e6558981 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Parking spaces freed for summer Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/4/03 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Brady, Sally Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Post Star Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource The city could have another 80 spaces downtown this summer to help aid its parking congestion. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d49b741c22e67efb755156f24977c0fb.jpg 0b7d1dcf452226103cf6f58d347e73d2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource NYC bus company adds Saratoga run Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/7/10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Zarnowski, Tatiana Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource A bus line that is expanding its expres service to Saratoga Springs will pick up passengers at 6:30 a.m. in front of Congress Park at the tourist booth on Broadway, and leave from New York at 8 p.m. for a return trip each day. A ticket will cost approx. $20. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/088aebb53359da1497993aad06fff1b8.jpg 2dcb0c0aac85108dbd1aacb3d863908d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bus route from NYC to Spa City cancelled Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 8/12/10 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Donohue, Emily Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Saratogian Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource The bus route planned to travel between Saratoga Springs and New York City has been cancelled, according to an announcement on the company's website. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/dd7d22f62ffb6e935b14dbf69110a724.jpg 445ec0a5821f7c782c94d22e188b0127 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource New bus route will aid track workers on dark days Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 8/3/15 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Williams, Stephen Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource A new bus route that should help senior citizens and track workers get around the Saratoga Springs area debuted last week, to the praise of city officials and advocate groups. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c3e84a6551ce6f9226136077043871ea.jpg 70f6b6981a9cedde8ca7dcc8780ba8e5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Saratoga Room, Saratoga Springs Public Library Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource 600 at Spa City Greet Amtrak Adirondack Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 8/5/74 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shepard, Judy Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived The Daily Gazette Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Transportation Description An account of the resource Close to 600 persons were on hand when Amtrak's Adirondack train pulled into the West Avenue railroad station yesterday in its inaugural run from New York to Montreal. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings transportation Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adult and Senior Center of Saratoga Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 5/12/17 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Phoebe Radcliffe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 1973-60YearsYoung-Cardplaying Title A name given to the resource Concentration Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/16/73 Description An account of the resource A newspaper clipping showing three women playing cards at the center Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Adult and Senior Center of Saratoga Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Newspaper activities cards Saratoga Springs Senior Center https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/83611040ef458415511facac7c1bbf6a.JPG a532ca02b7bfd8e9373185e4b1d64a15 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Springs History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1706- Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jillian Seigel Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 43270 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Officials: Low-income city housing necessary Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/6/88 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cloos, Paul Provenance A statement of any changes in ownership and custody of the resource since its creation that are significant for its authenticity, integrity, and interpretation. The statement may include a description of any changes successive custodians made to the resource. Saratoga Springs Subject The topic of the resource Urban Renewal Description An account of the resource City Council members said they were not against low-income housing in the city. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource text EnvironmentalJustice SaratogaSprings UrbanRenewal https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/4aea028df24299fb939411d4d3b2b819.jpg f2cefe88c543babca67c79894b418b72 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga County Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Repository Name of the repository that holds the original item. Brookside Museum, Saratoga County Historical Society (Ballston Spa, N.Y.) Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Will Kertzman Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Indian splint basket Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource after 1800 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Brookside Museum https://brookside.pastperfectonline.com/webobject/14DDC26E-6C77-400C-88FB-853469144896 Abstract A summary of the resource. A woven basket made by Native Americans who remained in Saratoga County and the surrounding areas after the revolutionary war. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Will Kertzman Indigenous Saratoga County https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/08bb8b75b249f1ccd1d055a6363360d2.jpeg 8aabdda2e9ea51b96d91d70ac1748fed https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/b0292f596654ae125ae87eb1bfa2eb79.jpeg a4f3eb18a664ad367a2a5128d8450746 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2bf2decb546b50f70777100bf4a95e2a.jpeg 40f12fa01b0fdc1e20eb39d43fcda73f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adult and Senior Center of Saratoga Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data black and white photograph Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. J. Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 19/05/2017 Date Depicted (Display) Text version of the date field -- can handle non-numeric characters (ca. 1850s, [1844]). This is the content date field that will display. April 1, 1979 Date Depicted (Numeric) Date that the information on the item depicts. In many cases, this will be the same date as that in the date field, but there will be exceptions. For example, a historical map drawnin 1890 might show Saratoga Springs as it was in 1820. Or, the information on the map itself might include detailed information that enables us to extrapolate a date, for example, "based on a survey done in 1841." Many State Archives map catalog records refer to this as the "situation date." 1979 Abstract (& Historical Note) Natural language description of the map itself, providing a general summary of the map and noting significant features. This is the place to introduce keywords and proper names that might be of interest to researchers, but do not warrant a separate subject heading of their own. Inset maps should also be described here, with their full titles given. Whenever historical or explanatory information is available, it should be included here as well. This includes information about items or events that are larger than just the map itself; for example, information about cartographers, a description of the map's historical significance (for example, "This is the first printed map of Saratoga Springs"), notes on the laws leading to a map's creation, descriptions of changes in state or county lines, information about the organization that created the map, how often maps were updated, and information about the map's creation and publication. Many State Archives maps have historical information in the catalog record -- that should be captured in this field. One of these photos was used in the April 2, 1979, Saratogian article about the dedication ceremony Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dedication of 5 Williams Street Senior Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 1, 1979 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bell, Clark https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/20b9f9e6c7413a867afeea71d3695b9c.jpeg ea5486f0deb5742dcdbaa6d72cb6d9a3 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0421657ff77f46e94823386f4194b6ad.jpeg 6a1620145fd8183b17839848f7979cad Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adult and Senior Center of Saratoga Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Program, dedication ceremony] Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 1, 1979 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c49dbb072141af24218a6b3f7d9950f1.jpeg 782e950e96bb90d3e58edcce072ce7b0 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c014441b308b698696029cf70a01ad3b.jpeg 3cc9a12274426a940d08f28e96a1ea94 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adult and Senior Center of Saratoga Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [INVITATION, Dedication, 162 Williams Street] Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 1, 1979 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3081bdedc3e73020aa74452180f8db9f.jpg 8869f64df1d9fc9e987387dff877a623 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/be858e860befcec07fd69dda47ec889d.mp3 bc75d3d47960924b58771e55820e5a56 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3bf3ab72698aa14d1b4e5b7e47ca9a2f.wav 2a005eb0f720cb9afe4cccf4f2f80015 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2abd52655158f56eef842464f5084abd.pdf 79da71e07be34a13f33e8aeee90c5812 PDF Text Text Interviewee: Barry Goldensohn Years at Skidmore: 1981-2003 Interviewer: Lena Drinkard Location of Interview: West 55th Street, NY, NY Date of Interview: 6/16/2015 00:00:00.00 Header 00:00:33:00 Born in Flatbush Brooklyn, in an immigrant community. Attended a diverse and eclectic James Madison High School with many famous graduates. 00:01:21:00 Barry’s Sister is the famous choreographer Deborah Hay. 00:04:44.24 Went to college at Oberlin University. Met his wife Lorrie Goldensohn and many close friends. 00:7:52.00 Rob and Peggy Boyers found out that Barry could be hired at Skidmore College because Hampshire does not have tenure. 00:8:31.20 Barry takes us through a day at Skidmore as a Professor. Taught two literature classes and one workshop a week and saw students in between and after classes. Discusses senior thesis informal meetings for a potluck dinner. 00:11:17.00 “A perfect professor of poetry.” 00:15:51.15 Barry discusses the students he stays in touch with. 00:19:03.08 Discusses Skidmore’s approach to education. 00:24:57.13 Barry talks about the writing critiques and workshops he led for students. 00:27:22.15 The writing process. 00:27:26:20 “If there’s one thing I know about my friend Barry Goldensohn, it’s that he dislikes sweet food, sweet music, sweet literature” - Peg Boyers. 00:29:23.22 Rob Boyers and the liveliness of Salmagundi and other faculty members is what kept Barry at Skidmore. “Saratoga’s a one horse town and you’re the horse.” 00:32:22.17 Barry on what makes a successful marriage. 00:39:50.28 Barry ended up teaching three to four classes a semester with students who know him and one another very well. 00:45:44 “I only retired from teaching not from writing.” The way he taught took a lot of time, so he needed more time for his life. � https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/65e7c7c64e3013ecb9f169b96e98fcb1.pdf 430983a94293ac4a42e5bcafda2e9139 PDF Text Text Interview with Barry Goldensohn by Lena Drinkard, Skidmore College Retiree Oral History Project, Saratoga Springs, New York, April 1, 2017. Lena Drinkard: This is Lena Drinkard, interviewing for Skidmore Retiree Memory Project. I am with Barry Goldensohn in New York City and it is April 1st, 2017. Barry, I’d like to start off my giving you a chance to introduce yourself and talk about where and when you were born. Barry Goldensohn: I was born in Brooklyn, in an area that used to be called something like Flatbush, and now is probably called something else. Went to grade school and high school in an overheated, immigrant-family community—extended community. Pretty varied, my closest friends in high school were a mixture of Italian, German, Greek and Jewish. The—My high school was just a neighborhood high school but its graduates are Ruth Bader Ginsburg, my sister who’s a very famous choreographer Deborah Hay, and Chuck Schumer, Norm Coleman (used to be governor of Michigan or Minnesota, something like that), five nobel prize winners—Ruth Bader Ginsburg did I mention her? And… full of second and first generation immigrant families where there was a lot of pressure to succeed on the part of the kids. My family came from, my mother’s family came from Odessa, and my grandfather was an officer in the (...) army. They left Odessa after the great purge, the great pregome, that drove all the jews out of Odessa in 1905, after the potential episode. And, it was a family that followed the pattern of Odesza families. There was one gifted child in the family, that was my mother, so the family all sacrificed and sacrificed so she could have her ballet lessons. She studied with a student of Magnitsky who would drive up to the mental hospital that Magnitsky was at at the Hudson and bring him down to teach classes. Which was spectacularly for my mother because he really took a shrine to her, regarded her as very special, sent her off to work at an LA company in New York. Then, she got rheumatic fever, which damaged her heart so she taught ballet for the rest of her life. But my sister had no choice. Choice of a career. Nor did my daughter. My mother started on my daughter right away, working on her flexibility. As an infant, Mind you. [Laughs] But my sister stayed with it my daughter didn’t. I got brought on and put into ballet classes when I was a kid because it was cheaper than getting a babysitter. It took for my sister but it didn’t take for me. I left at thirteen. Being dragged to the studio, I had no ability whatsoever. But again, this was James Madison high school. And then in my junior year I took a national test where the Ford foundation early admission scholarship and I wound up at Oberlin. I wanted to go to Columbia but they had no dorm room’s for students for the first couple of years and it would have been three hours a day commuting from Brooklyn. And Yale had pulled out of it at that point. And I was forbidden to to go University of Chicago by a father of one of my close friends who persuaded my parents that the school had been ruined by John Maynard Hutchins. Remember him? He turned it into a very progressive, wonderful school, but I wound up at Oberlin in the process of elimination. Met my wife and got married there and met my closest, my oldest friends. �LD: Did you start studying poetry at Oberlin? BG: In High School. And had a very good, wonderful teacher. Very inspiring and sophisticated. LD: So how did you end up at Skidmore? BG: I was the Dean of Humanities and Arts at Hampshire College before I was at Skidmore and decided that I was writing too little and was persuaded by a psychiatrist friend, that if I wanted more time at writing I should quit my dean’s job which was too engrossing. So I applied to Skidmore and got a job almost by accident as it turned out. The committee chose me but then it went up to the dean and the president and they said oh we can’t accept him, he’s a dean and he’s probably got tenure and we can’t hire people with tenure. Bob Boyers was giving some lectures at Northwestern University and was sitting on a poetry segment and of all things, the teacher was teaching a bunch of my poems. So Bob walked into the faculty lounge with that teacher, and said to him as he entered the room, oh we tried to hire him but we couldn’t because he’s got tenure at Hampshire. And a voice in the back of the room said, “they don’t have tenure at Hampshire.” So Bob called up Peggy, asked her to confirm that, and if that was in fact the case, tell the dean and tell the committee and I wound up getting invited for an interview [Laughs] That’s enough background. LD: Can you take me through a day at Skidmore as a Professor? BG: Well, a day, interesting. Just teaching literally two literature classes and one workshop a week So, and then seeing students in between and after classes. And I wound up often teaching three or four classes a semester because I had a bunch of students who wanted to do their senior thesis in writing poetry, poetry writing. So they met as an informal group but as a class. And we’d meet in the meaning so there wouldn’t be schedule conflicts with their other classes. Often over a potluck dinner. Then it would go on sometimes into the wee hours at either my house or one of their apartments. So it was kind of a senior seminar, right? Every semester I taught a course I loved which was The Introduction to Poetry. I taught it sort of half as a history of English poetry class and half as a course of methods and different types of methods, different historical periods. Starting with Chaucer and winding up with contemporary poets, spending a lot of time with seventeenth century and nineteenth century. I mixed up along the way. And then I taught seventeenth century poetry. My first lecture in that class was Shakespeare’s greatest plays. Al of the work of John Milton was written in the seventeenth century. Some of the greatest poets in language and we’re not going to look at them at all [Laughs] You’ll have to get them in other courses and I focused on the lyrical poems of the seventeenth century. And then writing workshops, and other intro fiction classes. �LD: When I spoke to Professor Goodwin she described you as the “perfect professor of poetry.” BG: What could she have meant by that? LD: I’d like to know what you think! BG: Well, I was actively involved in making it, and reading it, and teaching it as well. So I brought together a pretty full background in the literature and of course the poets concerned with making poems and how poems are made. Looking at the students, how poems are made, how these particular poems are made. LD: Can you talk about your relationship with the students? BG: As my wife puts it describing her students at Vassar, “Oh you fall in love with a few students every year” and I think that’s pretty true. And I like students and in general, I liked teaching them. I liked expanding their minds, and expanding their knowledge. And I was trying to teach them to love what I love, and maybe that’s what Susan was talking about. Also, teaching writing courses at Skidmore, generally I worked with students for 3-4 years and they got to be my friends. You know, ordinary lit teachers don’t have that experience, working semester after semester with the same students. You know you’ll take one course with Professor Boyers maybe the intro to fiction course and another fiction course but that’s about it. Or a victorian lit course, you’d take a three courses in the course of four years. Anyway, my students worked with me semester after semester after semester. Because you could repeat workshops and so, it was the especially nice part of the kind of teaching I’ve done over the years, that you got to know the students very well. LD: Can you think of one student in particular that you had that had an impact on you during your time at Skidmore? BG: That had an impact on me yeah. Well, Mark Woodward, who stayed around working at Salmagundi. Mark did a lot of work with both Bob and me, and has stayed writing and writing. But in this neighborhood there are a couple of students who, anyone you really know and care about has an impact on you. And I went to a reading earlier, or last weekend, by one of my Skidmore students who lives in Austin now but, showed me a draft of her book, she said, it doesn’t have the dedications in the book so I’ll have to send you a regular copy!. Jardeen Lebair, is a wonderful writer, only student I remember who won both our jury poetry and fiction prize in the same year. Remarkably talented student. But there are a lot of students I stay in touch with. �One of my former students, Laura Marshall lives a few blocks up on the west side. Bruce Baker, who’s a very very gifted student, star of the hockey team and he’s now coaching… he’s deeply involved in the city since he’s graduated with minority education, education of the deprived. So he coaches for different hockey teams ad well as teaching. He started off on the ground floor for Teach of America. He was the recruiter for Teach of America and then he said, “Why am I recruiting people to do something that I should do myself?” So he wound up teaching in the city schools, but one because he was male and because he was white, and because he is movie-star handsome, he became a very popular teacher. So popular, that he decided to have a semi-pro hockey career while he was teaching, so they’d keep him on a semester a year while the other semester he’d be playing hockey. He explained to me how, he lives on this block, so we see him, and of course in his hockey career he’s broken every bone—small—bone in his body. He’s also a coach for Columbia's informal hockey team, it’s not a varsity sport. But I don’t know there’s been a lot of students over the course of the years I’ve come to love and stayed very close too and it’s a significant part of our social life, my relationship with former former students, not only from here but from Hampshire and Goddard. Now, Goddard in the mid-sixties when I got there was a magnet school for the daring and the adventurous student. That resident undergraduate program no longer exists. But my students there were spectacularly good. A lot of them are pulitzer prize winners and guggenheim winners and you know major award winners. One of you I’m sure you know of, the playwright David Mamet, and I’ve had two students while we’ve been here in New York. Naomi Wallace who was a Hampshire student and Mammoth. LD: How would you describe Skidmore at the time that you taught, if you describe Goddard as the school for the, can you fill in the blank for Skidmore? BG: Skidmore had a much more traditional approach to education, like the schools I went to, like Oberlin than Hampshire or Goddard. My Hampshire students—I don’t want to slight them either, two of my senior thesis students went on to win Macarthur Genius awards. Naomi Wallace was one of them and Peter Cole who has been teaching one semester at Yale and the other semester living in Jerusalem and running a press for Israeli and Palestinian poets, crossing a lot of boundaries. But Goddard was more a traditional education in a way for someone who has devoted his life to advanced, progressive schools. Like the progressive high school we started early in the sixties, in the Bay Area with a bunch of quaker friends. That was at the very beginning of a whole rash of progressive high schools that were starting to emerge and people would come, we’d often have more visitors than students. LD: What year was this? �BG: That was ‘62-’65 and I graduated with the first graduating class I wanted to go back to college teaching. But my first graduating class of students went to Reed, Stanford, Santa-Cruz. They were on the board of the student-faculty administration group that was defining Santa-Cruz which is interesting. And other schools within the california system. Interesting group of students. That school, after the people that started it passed it on to other faculty members, it got sort of swept up as a southern most adjunct of the haight-ashbury counter-cultures and it was destroyed basically by that it became a fairly destructive place and only lasted a few years. But it was good for the students who went there. One of the student went to Oxford with a grant and got first in PPE, Politics, Philosophy and Economics, that’s degree you get if you want to be prime-minister. Almost all of the proceeding prime-ministers and most of the subsequent prime-ministers had that degree first. LD: It seems like you really knew and understood each student you had— BG: Oh, I would never say that [laughs] LD: Do you think the types of students changed at Skidmore from when you first got there to when you retired? BG: I’m not sure. I taught for about twenty-two years. There seemed to be always, a leavening of very committed and very serious students. I taught fairly esoteric courses. Seventeenth century poetry, poetry writing, and the Intro to Poetry course, that was the longest draw class of the largest cross-section of students. But by and large, the students who went on to work with me, were a largely self-selected group, so I find it hard to generalize about the general run of students. And I heard one of my students saying to someone else, “Oh I would never dare offer Shitty work to Professor Goldensohn.” With a self-selected crew that knew I expected a lot from them, they worked hard. So, I don’t know if that’s the whole student body it’s hard to generalize but they were always enough of those to keep my classes full. LD: Is it challenging to grade someone else's creative writing? BG: Oh, I hardly think of grades. The really challenging part is discussing them. And how you talk it over in the group, in the workshop and individually. What to say, often the harsh things to say, that will help them see the problems that they are running into. [Laughs] Another overheard conversation. I was talking to one of my students in my office and three of my students were right outside my office, having a raucous so I couldn’t help overhearing, conversation about “You know what he said to me?” “ You know what he said to me?” You know, like throw this away or that’s terrible! Or start over again! But if you’re going to teach writing seriously, you have to be candid about what they’re doing. And it’s hard, you try to be rigorous but teaching �poetry writing, which is the main thing at Skidmore has these contradictory elements. You want rigorous attention to what you’re doing, but you don’t want to lose as in any art, the sense of play in getting there. Because a lot of the most creative work comes with playing with it. Play with it play with i! I told my students. You have to catch your mind at its most expansive and least predictable moments. Often this is helped by just lying down. You know, your mind often releases itself more creatively, at the moment before you fall asleep or at the moment you’re waking up. Or when you’re just lying down. I remember one of my students saying “Oh he thinks we do our best work on our backs!” [Laughs] But it’s being open to the mind at play and not working in predictable grooves. And then showing it to people that will tell you the truth about what you’re experiencing. LD: How do you experience criticisms? BG: Well, Peggy Boyers. Just last week, I showed her a draft of a poem. And she said, “Barry, it’s too sweet!” [Laughs] And I said Peggy, you’re the person I remember saying,” If there's one thing I know about my friend Barry Goldensohn, It’s that he dislikes sweet food, sweet music, sweet literature. I think she’s right. And as a matter of fact, I had written the word “sweet” a number of times and swept them out. She was right, I was giving into the sentimental side of myself. It had to do with being eighty and losing a lot of your friends. You know? And that comes with being eighty. It’s in some ways an apologetic… and how do you keep going when people are dying? People you love are dying? So I took some sweetness out. It didn’t belong in that poem. LD: So it sounds like your identity as a writer… well everyone’s identity as a writer changes throughout their lives, in what specific experiences they are going through, but when you were at Skidmore as a professor, how did you divide your time between teaching and writing? And because you were surrounded by Peggy Boyers, and Rob Boyers and all these faculty members that were passionate about poetry did that inspire you? BG: It’s what kept me at Skidmore. It was Bob and the liveliness of the Salmagundi world he created. I used to tease him by saying, Saratoga’s a one horse town and you’re the horse. [Laughs] But Salmagundi brought conferences together every year, it brought fascinating people every year, so I got to know and be friends with Susan Sontag (who I had actually known earlier from my New York City Days) and George Steiner, and all sorts of fascinating people, intelligent people. I got an offer for both Lorrie and I to teach at University of Florida, just move down there from Iowa, (oh I left out that I taught at the Iowa Writers Workshop for a couple of years) and it enabled Lorrie to get a free PHD because she was a faculty wife. LD: And at the time you were at Skidmore she was at Vassar. �BG: Well we lived in Saratoga, and I would drop her off Tuesday morning on this train and pick her up Thursday night. And she would teach all day Tuesday, all day Wednesday, all day Thursday. As the president of Hampshire said to me, when she found out, “Oh my god that sounds like the kind of relationship where your marriage is going to last forever.” Because there’s just enough space between you. And it happens, we have our sixty-first anniversary coming up, LD: What’s the secret to a long—? BG: Hanging in there. LD: Can you elaborate? BG: Becoming one another’s best friend. My wife says, “learning to understand the things that are difficult about the person you’re with,” which is profounder than “hanging in there.” LD: And she writes poems as well… BG: Yes, she’s my first reader always. LD: What were some of the things you guys did in Saratoga at the time? Because as you said, it’s a one horse… BG: Hanging out with Bob and Peg and the other writers. One of my former students from Goddard, Catherine Davis, I recruited her for teaching poetry at Skidmore and we hung out a lot. And, she called me up and told me I was offered a job at University of Washington for half the work and twice the pay, what should I do? And I said, if I ever heard of a no brainer in my life.. LD: Was there anything about Skidmore that you disliked during your time there? Or what was challenging? BG: Well, it’s hard to say. I’m not a good hater. Let me tell you one of the things I liked a lot. The English Department was very congenial, there was not a divided part department. As a Dean at Hampshire, none of my senior faculty were on speaking terms with one another. That happens in schools and departments. I was the Dean of Humanities and Arts. I mean that’s ridiculous!. Lorrie’s Vassar department was which she called a “dysfunctional family.” We saw one of her colleagues recently and I said, “Oh how is so and so?” and she says, “Urg.. She’s still teaching…” [Laughs] “I mean this is a woman in her late seventies I’m speaking to, still carrying �over the animosity from her teaching years, and it deeply divided… that’s never been the case in my years at Skidmore. The only experience I had like that was when I was at Iowa. The Writing Workshop was loosely related to the English Department. And the English Department had a wonderful guy.. was what the rest of the school called “happy valley” because he was just great at human relationships. He then moved to take over the English Department at Suny Albany, I think his name was John Gerber, and when i took over the Hampshire job, I brought him down to Albany and asked him how did you do it? How did you create such a peaceful environment and unified community? And he said, it wasn’t me, it was the years. It was in the sixties and seventies when everything was expanding and I never had to get rid of anyone for budgetary reasons and all I could do was hire people, and set things up. It was the time, but that underlies his genuine openness to people that made that experience at Iowa so wonderful. What he had to do at Albay was very difficult which was cut down the undergraduate programs because Albany had no right offering a doctorate. LD: What do you think made the English department at Skidmore such a unit at that time? BG: I don’t know, I asked Bob Boyers at the time if it was always like that and he said during the Vietnam war, political divides really split up the department but then they got back together or at least by the time I got there it seemed like a congenial group of people. LD: And then did you watch, sort of, new faculty members come in throughout the years and it shifter? BG: Yeah. One of them, Susannah MIntz, who is chair is getting married so I offered her (.....) LD: And those sort of soirees you mentioned, where you would sit with students and have a seminar at houses? Did that happen the entire time because— BG: Yes, pretty much. After a year, the pattern became that I would have a bunch of students. Say six- ten independent students wanting to work on poetry as their senior projects and I realized I would be dead meeting with them every week as a service session and that they had a lot to learn from one another, so they would sign up for an independent study but we met as a group. The faculty thought I was crazy for teaching three, four classes. But that was fun. It was students who knew me well, and one another well, which means they could speak very cANDIDLY TO one another. I remember students saying once in class about a poem, “that’s the stupidest poem I’ve ever read in my life!” In a thick New York accent and the student who wrote it said, “Oh you know… I wrote it on my way to class and I really shouldn’t have offered it. [Laughs] And You know, students could hear one another say things like that, and they didn’t have to be mandy-pandy with one another. You try to create in your class a series with a respect �one another, as people who are trying to learn to do something very difficult, to write a poem. They had to be able to speak to one another and say I think you should change this. And then those exchanges would be very illuminating. LD: I’ve wondered if we’ve sort of lost something over the years because the relationship you describe with your students, *Lorrie walks in * it feels like there are more boundaries implemented at Skidmore between the Professor’s and the students and each other. It feels like there are more unspoken rules about you know, a maybe more professional relationship established today? BG: Well, I thought my relationship with my students was very professional ​about​ writing poetry. Uh, a greater, are you talking about a greater area of things you can’t talk about? LD: Mhm, yeah. BG: You know, I’ve thought about that a lot. [Lorrie talks to Barry] BG: No one taking a course in seventeenth century who has been sexually traumatized should take a course in Shakespeare’s tragedies or comedies for that matter, or seventeenth century poetry which is often playful and its respect for women was less accompanied with attitudes about male and female roles. Very unusual. One of my favorite eighteenth century poets, was about one of the great boundary breaking woman who was irreverent and a giant figure in her age, her name was Aphra Bayne. I would blush now to recite her most famous poem. You know it’s really hard to say. The pre-selection process that I was talking about I think would have… and also the atmosphere, the free give and take served as a kind of barrier for people whose vulnerabilities would now allow them to do that. Because they were open. It was an open secret, so to speak. Very much self-selected. Just as it is an open secret that terrible things happen in Hamlet and Othello and Macbeth. You can’t taming of the shrew for the instance, is a brilliant comic fantasia on sex roles or gender roles. And the women keep their power. The shrew says you “marry me you marry my tongue.” LD: Okay, well we’re reaching the end of the interview. I’m wondering if there's anything we didn’t get to that you’d like to talk about or share. Maybe a story or some piece of information that you’d like to end with. BG: No, I’d just like to say I really liked teaching at Skidmore. But I put a lot of work into dealing with student papers and was eager to retire at sixty-five to have more time of my own for my own writing. I’ve written three books since then. Lorrie’s written three ever since she’s �retired. We’re… as much as I like teaching, I only retired from teaching ​not ​from writing. Because the way I taught took a lot of time, and I wanted more time for myself. LD: That’s a great place to end .Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. I really appreciate it! BG: I enjoyed it! � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Skidmore College Retirees Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lena Drinkard Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Barry Goldensohn Location The location of the interview New York City Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Lena Drinkard Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 4/26/17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview With Barry Goldensohn Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 1, 2017 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Retiree Memory Project Language A language of the resource eng Bibliographic Citation A bibliographic reference for the resource. Recommended practice is to include sufficient bibliographic detail to identify the resource as unambiguously as possible. "Interview with Barry Goldensohn," Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project, accessed April 26, 2017, http://ssmp.skidmore.edu/admin/items/show/620 Description An account of the resource Barry Goldensohn came to Skidmore in 1981 as professor for poetry in the English department. In this interview, he discusses everything from the diverse Brooklyn community in which he was raised, to his experiences teaching and writing alongside his wife, Lorrie Goldensohn. He also describes his close relationship with his students—many of which went on to find immense success as writers. Despite his love for teaching, Barry left Skidmore so that he could devote all of his time to his true passion—writing. Academic Rigor Campus Culture Curriculum English Department Faculty and Administrative Relations Faculty and Student Relations Salmagundi https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ed31850cb6be576a9bc5875267ab30a4.jpg 571e16376084ca21c26b1b973f287e71 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5d1819f18b44ad194e8e8a898d26085a.mp3 593eb3d4b3322243632583cbf3091463 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/858826f48e4f10200d244a7caffb9f63.pdf d315d7f7d88d58690df2f7b7ba7fe2d3 PDF Text Text Interview with Sarah Goodwin by Lynne Gelber, Skidmore College Retiree Oral History Project, Saratoga Springs, NY, April 11, 2024. LYNNE GELBER: This is Lynne Gelber with Sarah Goodwin and Sue Bender and Leslie Mechem to interview Sarah Goodwin for our project. We're at the, what is it, the Surrey Inn? LESLIE MECHEM: No, the communications. LG: Communications center, excuse me, on the Skidmore campus today. Did I say it was April 11th, 2024? So, to get started, Sarah, can you tell us where you grew up and a little bit about your early days and then how you got to Skidmore? SG: Sure. I was an Army brat. So, I was born at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, and lived at Fort\ Huachuca, Arizona, and thenLG: Fort? SG: Fort Huachuca. LG: Huachuca. SG: It's near Tucson. LG: How do you spell Huachuca? SG: H-U-A-C-H-U-C-A. LG: Okay. SG: Huachuca, where my father actually developed the first drone program for the military. LG: Oh. SG: Yeah. His vision, because he came out of reconnaissance in World War II, was to have drones doing the reconnaissance instead of human beings that were sent off and often didn't come back. But they cut the program for whatever reason, so he spent another year at the Pentagon after that. Let me see. After Fort Huachuca, we spent four years in Germany with the military, which was formative for me because I learned some German and was exposed to Europe. LG: And how old were you then? SG: Four years old to eight years old. Just strangely enough, Germany, we lived in Karlruhe, in �Heidelberg. Those felt like home to me really, actually, throughout my life. I've had a sort of pull back to that region. But I also was exposed to France, and my parents had a passion for France. They spent some time there after the war. So that happened too. All those seeds got planted. Eventually, when Dad retired from the Army, we moved to Palo Alto, California, when I was nine. And that was my mother's hometown, so we moved in with my grandmother and stayed. I was pretty happy to have Palo Alto as a hometown. Even as a child, I recognized that it was pretty special, all those sunny days. You know. And it had been my mother's hometown, so there was a feeling of welcome there for the family that was very nice. It was quite different from the Army, a feeling of continuity, of a connection to the past and so on. When it came time to apply to college, I was drawn to the Northeast for whatever reason. That's most of the schools I applied to were in the Northeast. I wound up going to Harvard as an undergrad. And at Harvard, I majored in English, but I did their comparative literature option so that I could focus on a period instead of the history of English and American literature. I focused on the 19th century and did English, French and German. There was a time when I was in college when all I really wanted to do was become fluent in French and German. It seemed I could not find a way to justify that rationally, but it was a drive that I had. So I spent as much time in France and in Germany as I could and wound up doing a PhD in comparative literature at Brown. Brown was the only East Coast school I applied to. I was still trying to get back to California, but it was the one that offered me a full ride. And so there it was. I liked the program at Brown. I found graduate school really hard. I don't know, just the expectation of work was, as one of my professors pointed out to me, "This is good training for being an assistant professor somewhere." And I thought, "Ooh, is that the life I want?" LG: Did you have a combination of classes and teaching? SG: Yeah. Classes and teaching. Yeah. The first year I had a fellowship. They called it a university fellowship, so I didn't have to teach actually until year three. I can't remember what happened in year two. But it was below poverty level living, but everybody I knew was... You all know what it was like. It was fine. It was very close relationships. I'm still connected with some graduate school friends. I finished my PhD, and I spent time in both Germany and France during my work on my dissertation and applied all over the country. I actually got one offer the year before I got the Skidmore job, but it was a tenure-track job that had been turned into a one-year position at UC Riverside. And I've thought a lot during my life about how differently things could have gone if I'd been doing German and comp lit at UC Riverside instead of English at Skidmore. I mean, you could not get more dramatically different, I think, than that. But when I went out for the interview, I saw teaching German in the middle of these orange groves was going to be a slog, and I just could not see that in the long run actually working out. So for better or worse, I went back on the job market and got the Skidmore job the next year. My committee was delirious. They said, "You're going to love it there." �At that point, I was already a subscriber to Salmagundi. That was all I knew about Skidmore. I was a reader of Salmagundi. I loved it, and I found it very intellectually stimulating. LG: So, did you have an initial interview at MLA [Modern Language Association]or? SG: The initial interview was at MLA. I remember Susan Kress and I'm pretty sure Terry Diggory was there too. Don't remember exactly who else. And then they brought me to campus. And the day after I left the campus interview, it snowed 27 inches. I remember that because I was thinking, "Well, I'm glad I got out of there and, oh wow, what's this going to be like if this turns out?" But the interview went really well on both sides. I loved it here. I could see that this was a place that I would be very fortunate to teach at. LG: And what year was that? SG: That was January of '83. Right. And Ralph Ciancio was chair, and he made the offer. He was, of course, totally charming, as you can imagine. Mimi and he hosted me at their house. It all felt very welcoming. And at the same time, I will not forget my interview conversation with Terry Diggory, who I thought, "Okay, he's got all the brain power I need in a colleague." Just very simpatico, understood exactly what I was trying to do theoretically and went straight to the heart of the meat of what I was working on. Then I also remember Tom Lewis because he was so irreverent. That was good. LG: In what way? You want to talk about that? SG: Well, he just said to me, "Do you like graduate school?" And I said, "You know, Honestly, not really." I might as well be honest. I found it kind of grueling, and I won't bore you with that, but it did not feel like a warm and fuzzy experience at all. It was more sort of like the survival of the fittest, and I was never sure on any given day whether I was considered one of the fittest. And so it was just an intensely uncomfortable situation for all those years. LG: Did it have anything to do with male/female? SG: Oh my God, absolutely. I mean it's telling, for example, that I co-edited a Festschrift for our thesis advisor, Al Cook, who intellectually, a wonderful person, but he just didn't have time for women students. But I was one of his advisees, and he dutifully read my thesis. He wrote about five words on each chapter, sort of encouraging me to go ahead and finish it. I mean, it had virtually no feedback of substance. And yet there I was co-editing the Festschrift for him and with these other two guys who were his visible favorites, but I was so used to that. I mean, that was the way things were at Harvard. You were invisible so much of the time. And by the way, I spent a year in Paris at the Ecole Normale Supérieure des Jeunes Filles. LG: Oh. �SG: Yes. And the jeunes filles were allowed to sit in the back of the room while the normaliens sat in the front with all of the illustrious professors, and they tutored them. I mean, they were on informal terms with those professors. Our housing was on the outskirts of town, [French 00:09:50]. The Rue Dunois, of course, was right in the center near the Sorbonne. I was just used to it. It was such a norm. So when I got to Skidmore, it was an incredible pleasure that right away, there was a Susan Kress in my interview who, she was phenomenal. She was that perfect combination of professional and welcoming and also, just intellectually just so alive. Phyllis was on leave that semester when I first came, but I did get to meet her. And I think that was whenLG: Phyllis Roth? SG: Phyllis Roth, yeah. I think she was pregnant with Ruth and then maybe gave birth then. I'm not sure. It was right around then because I'm pretty sure when I first met her, she was very pregnant. That was kind of inspiring too. I thought, "Okay, may be possible." It was different. I was very different. And the fact of it having been a women's college felt to me like some kind of mark on its character that was entirely positive for me. LG: So, when you first came, what courses were you teaching? SG: Whoa. LG: If you can remember. It's been awhile. SG: Well, actually, I'll mention that during my interview, Ralph Ciancio took me out to dinner, and we were talking about how everybody in the English department teaches English 105, which I guess it was always English 105, Freshman Composition. At some point, I sort of heaved a sigh. I was just trying to relax a little, and he said, "What are you thinking about?" And I said, "I'm thinking I'd really love to have this job." And he said, "But will you really love to teach English composition?" And I said, "Oh, yeah. I can do that." And it was true, I was ready. I had taught it at Brown. I knew what it was. I loved to teach, and I could see this is a place where loving to teach would be viewed favorably and not with some kind of suspicion that you weren't serious enough. And I felt pretty serious as a scholar. I was ambitious. I'd already had some publication. I thought, "I can do this stuff." But I also wanted to teach. So, English 105 every semester, did I get tired of that? Sure, yeah. All those papers all the time, relentless, just that paper grading mill. LG: Did it also give you a chance to interact with the students though? SG: Oh, there's no shortage of interaction with students. I will say one thing. The English majors were not the same as the students from across the college. And 105 was my chance to interact with students from all over the college. There were more men in English 105, for example, than in your typical English classes when I first began. It evolved. �LG: Because it was a required course of everybody at the time. SG: Exactly, exactly. And then also, Skidmore at that time was more tuition driven, and so a lot of the kids came from very privileged backgrounds. And that was truer of English majors, I think, than of the student body as a whole, I would guess. I don't know that there's any data about that. So there was a certain pleasure in having more of a chance to work with kids who were maybe a little scrappier where they're trying to figure out, how can they turn this education into a leg up somehow when they were done. I remember one English major sitting in my office, and he was doing kind of B work. And I knew he was smart. He was a sophomore, and I just said, "John, where you going to go after college?" And he said, "I don't actually need to worry about that." LG: Oh, dear. SG: And I said, "Yes, you do. Of course you do. You need a life." He looked kind of astonished that I wouldn't take that so seriously. LG: So, what courses were you teaching after that? SG: Oh, 105. And I also taught Intro to Poetry, the 200 levels, so I'm going from 100 to 200. Intro to Poetry. I taught Introduction to Women in Literature. I taughtLG: Had that been taught before? SG: Oh, yeah. That had been there, I'm not sure how long, not that long. And by the way, it didn't count towards the major, so that was a change that some of us did bring about. Yes. That's a story, I don't know, should I just tell that right now? LG: Mm-hmm. SG: We had two 200-level courses, Women Characters and Themes, something like Themes. I don't know, it's been awhile. And neither of them counted towards the major. And so the curriculum committee, which consisted mostly of womenLG: The English department curriculum committee? SG: English department curriculum committee brought a proposal to the department to divide them into Introduction to Women in Literature and then an advanced course in, gosh, it wasn't Women Characters, which by that time was theoretically dated. It might've been just more theory, just something more advanced. Sorry, I can't do better than that. And that the advanced course would count towards the major. And at that time, this was in the '80s, feminist theory was really taking off. It was very interesting. There were controversies within it that were toothy, questions of essentialism or sort of pro-women. Well, I won't get into that. �But anyway, I'm going to say this. The men in the department did not want that course to count towards the major, and these were my good friends. And I was just astonished at the resistance that they put up, including going to the... One of them said, "Well, you can't have that course count towards the major because so many of the readings are in translation." And I looked at them and I said, "Well, what about Bob Boyers' Contemporary Novel course where almost everything was read in translation?" It was like that somehow was prestigious but feminist theory in translation was not prestigious. So we kind of beat them down. There obviously were some men who voted with the women or it wouldn't have passed, but there was that very vocal opposition. And maybe some of them in the end just couldn't sustain their opposition. Yeah. LG: Other courses that you taught? SG: Yeah. Well, see, I'm saving the best for last. LG: Okay, good. SG: Because my absolute favorite course that I taught for decades was British Romanticism. I played with that a lot over the years. I did a lot of different things with it, but I did really love just teaching the canon of British poetry. And I don't think that course can be taught that way anymore of British romantic poetry. What I loved about those poets, the late 18th, early 19th century poets, is that I felt that they were of an age that was very similar to my own. I felt as though 1968 was a definitive year for me where my world got turned upside down. And I think something like that happened around 1789 to '91 for these youthful poets. I read them, and I felt as though they gave voice to the same kinds of anxieties and aspirations and rebelliousness and desires that I lived with. It was so much fun to teach them because the students did not come in to this course really expecting to love them as much as they could. And almost always, they left loving those poets. And I threw in Wuthering Heights because that's such a great romantic novel even though it's a generation later, or I threw in Frankenstein. That was another one which is a dream to teach. I loved that course. That was my main 300-level course and the Feminist Theory course, also at the 300 level. I did teach research seminars on the Brontes. The department turned out a little top-heavy with Victorianists, though, so that course sort of slipped away to me, to my regret, because that was a really fun course to teach. LG: Now, at some point you got into administration or to administering at least the engineer department? SG: Yes. LG: Want to talk about that? SG: Yeah. But before I do, can I just add that I also taught in the liberal studies curriculum. �LG: Oh, good. SG: My LS-3 course on memory was also one of my very favorite courses, and I thought that was a brilliant curriculum. What I loved about LS-3 was that it had a theoretical construct going into it, and you had to teach to that construct, which was the relationship, what was it? Remind me. Between the arts and philosophy. That was essentially, that was at the core of LS-3 and how to theorize but also how to express things aesthetically and the tensions between those two modes of discourse. And to have that put there before the students as this is what you have to learn about in this course felt to me like a validation of everything I loved to do but the students sometimes didn't want. They sometimes just wanted to go with the flow and read for the story, that kind of thing. The other... Oh gosh, I just lost it. What was the other LS course? Oh yeah, I taught an LS-2 course. Sorry, what was LS-2? It felt like sociology to me. But I taught a course on romance that was really fun where we read schlock romances but also Pride and Prejudice. And often, the students would come in there, one student said to me once, "I thought I was going to get some tips." But again, it was a joy to teach. Okay, how did I get into administration? Well, it started being chair of the English department, which is a slippery slope. Department had 30-plus FTEs at the time. Just delivering that writing requirement, it was on one department, it was a huge burden. And I kept trying to find ways to get other departments to assume more of that, and some of them took and some of them didn't. Because I thought I'd rather have Leslie Mechem teaching her students in classics to write than somebody I've had to pull in off the street at the last minute because we over-enrolled the class again. And that sounds terrible, but I am not kidding, sometimes I had to hire people who were seriously underqualified to deliver that requirement. Sometimes they turned out to be really good teachers, but you just don't know. And to be doing that in an unplanned way and then sometimes also what we were paying people, trying to get people on a per-course basis so we wouldn't... I mean, it was awful. But I did navigate all that, and I suppose that gave me some administrative skills. And English was a complicated department in many ways, so I got some experience, just all of the hiring, all of the performance reviews, navigating curriculum reform and the challenges of that. I would say the hardest thing was the reappointment and tenure decisions when there was controversy. And hiring was often almost as controversial but not as bitter, typically, sometimes as bitter. So there would be divides within the department, and you tried to reposition those divides so that they didn't split us down the middle. I got a lot of practice with administrative work. Sue Bender was associate dean when I stepped down from department chair. And I don't know, I think maybe a year or two later you were leaving the position, and Chuck Joseph, who was then dean of the faculty, called me and asked me if I would be interested. I had just stopped chairing. I was really not interested, to be honest. But we had our first female president since the beginning of the college. LG: Who was? �SG: Jamienne Studley. And she called me and said, "I'd really like you to do this." I didn't really know her, but I thought, "She must need it for some reason to have a woman in that position. She's losing a woman." And I wasn't sure who else was even under consideration. So I agreed to do it, and I sometimes think how different my time at Skidmore would have been if I had somehow just said no. It was hard. It was very hard, and Sue did warn me. LG: What were your big challenges in that role? SG: What wasn't a challenge? So, let me say from the get-go that I'm not a very organized person, and I'm not good at saying no. I take on too much. And those were not qualities that worked well in that position, so I did have too much on my plate. People were happy to pile that plate full. It was we were a little shorthanded, and then it gradually became clear that I could not, in fact, manage everything. But things that I loved, let me start right there. I loved it that I got to work with the Tang. I justLG: Good. I was going to ask you about that. SG: The Tang for me was that made everything else worth it. It was transformative for me. I don't mind saying that it changed my life. I had to be intellectually honest and find out what about the work with the Tang actually seemed urgent to me. And pretty soon it all seemed really urgent. LG: Can you go into some depth about what it was that you were doing? SG: Okay. So virtually within weeks, a few weeks, the first summer that I started the job, our then director, whose name, I'm sorry... Sue Bender: Charlie Stainback. SG: ... Charlie Stainback, who was marvelous, right? He submitted his resignation. And we were on a president's cabinet, then staff, retreat when that came in. And we're looking around the table. At that point, Charlie had been reporting to me. I'd probably met with him once at that point. And Chuck said, "Well, I guess you'll be leading the search." So, I had to search for a museum director, which was insane. I mean, I had run many searches, but this was something about which I knew nothing. And so I took advice from all sides, and I will say that there were people on the Tang's, oh gosh, what do they call it? Their advisory board, essentially, who were enormously helpful. Adam, ooh, he just resigned. He just retired from directing the Whitney Museum, actually, where he went after doing the Addison Gallery, Andover. Adam Weinberg, he could not have been more generous in his help and his advice and helped me make it. We were on such a shoestring that year. We did it, if you can imagine, without a search firm. LG: What was his connection to Skidmore? �SG: He was on the advisory board. LG: Okay. SG: And I'm not sure, did he have any other connection? Maybe not. It might've been a networking thing for him. Sue Bender: I think Charlie brought him in. SG: Charlie brought him in? Yeah, it was a good advisory board. It was pretty amazing. Between donors and people in that museum world, they brought in fabulous candidates, not all of whom were actually interested. But we had to figure out how to court them somehow. And I remember when it was Ian Berry, who is now the director of the Tang and was then curator and much younger, but he found John Weber, who was at that time director of education for the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. And I called John Weber and cold call, and John said, "I've been wondering if you would call." Yes, he'd sort of had his eye, but someone he knew had applied for the position. And he did not want to apply and compete with his friend, which I just thought, "Okay, very much in your favor." And so we sorted that out. He was going to be in New York, I don't know, a week or two later. And I said, "Well, why don't you just make a little day trip up?" We courted each other, let's put it that way. I thought he would be a really good hire. It was not my decision, but he had the right experience. He had the right eye. I mean, Ian Berry's eye is incomparable, honestly, but you have to know. Then people on the advisory board said, "Go for it." And the search committee, of course, was also at that point fully pulled in. So, that was one of my favorite things to do and then just making sure that it happened, just being the person that John would bring ideas to, and you just don't say no. You say, "Let's figure it out." That was so much fun. LG: All right. SG: What else? Something I hated? LG: Why not? SG: Well, one of the other hats that I wore was overseeing assessment at the college. I found a way, again, to believe that it was urgent. I found a way to believe in it. That was the only way I could do something. I couldn't do it if I didn't believe in it, but I certainly didn't believe in much of the culture of assessment nationally. And so I thought what we really needed to do as a college was talk about, in terms that really made sense to us, what do we want our students to be learning and how do we know whether they're learning it? LG: Was this generated by Middle States? SG: Yes. �LG: Okay. SG: By accreditation. Thank you for asking that. The new standards for accreditation that Middle States had passed involved being able to define the goals for our students' learning and measure their success. And the whole idea of measuring learning to me seems to me wrongheaded, but I come out of the romantic anti-empiricist tradition. But I did think we ought to be able to tell some pretty good stories about it and they ought to be evidence based. I mean, I'm fascinated by the status of evidence in every discipline. I always wish that our faculty could have a multidisciplinary discussion of the degree to which evidence is actually valid in our disciplines. But I think a lot of people don't want to have that kind of conversation because it's kind of scary. But okay, don't let me go down that road. I was sometimes asking people to provide evidence that I myself wasn't sure would be valid for much, given the numbers and given the weakness of the statistics and stuff like that. But I also thought, "Regardless of all of that, faculty need to be talking with each other about what they hope their students are learning because we don't know." We know that our best students are doing really well, but what about all the rest of them? We had so much anecdotal evidence of stellar achievement. I mean, not just anecdotal but hard evidence of stellar achievement from 10% of our students. But I thought there were others that were actually, and I saw it in my department, that were slipping through the cracks that were not learning what we thought English majors should be learning. And they were going out in the world representing the English major at Skidmore College, and we didn't have any way of identifying them early and working with them and stuff like that. But faculty were deeply resistant to those conversations. They saw it, as I said once on a panel about assessment at the Modern Language Association Convention, I said, "I felt like a Vichy collaborator." And I said, "I didn't think like one, but I could see people viewing me that way." And it was hard. It just never stopped being hard. The resentment that people had, the ways that they would see me coming and turn around and walk away. It was the hardest thing in my entire Skidmore career. I don't know. But I just have one more thing to say about it. The thing that motivated me the most thinking about it was that I got interested in where learning not to be racist had a home in our curriculum. And I didn't see that it had a home in the curriculum. There were some courses in sociology, but I didn't see that we were asking our students to think about racism as something fundamental in American culture that we needed to be more knowledgeable about collectively, all of us. And the more I read about that, the more I thought, "This is an urgent problem that is not being talked about enough." And I started seeing assessment maybe as a way to leverage that. And in fact, when I ultimately became a campus visitor for some colleges like us for Middle States and for New England, the New England Association, and if I said to the faculty... A lot of places, there was faculty resistance to assessment. And if I said, "Well, do you agree that a liberally educated person should not be a racist, should not harbor racism?" And people would say, "Yes." �And I said, "Well, do you know where that is located in your curriculum? And how is it being taught? Even if it's located in the curriculum, what are they learning, and are they actually learning it?" That was one of the reasons that I got involved in the IGR program at Skidmore, the inter-group dialog, Intergroup Relations. LG: You want to say what the... SG: Yeah, Intergroup Relations is what IGR stands for. That came after my time as dean, so I want to finish the time as dean first. But that was sort of the pathway that most engaged me after my time as dean. Anything else about being a dean? LG: Well, one of the things that I think would be interesting to note is the increasing diversity of both faculty, staff and students during your tenure. SG: Yes. That was definitely something that was talked about regularly in president's staff. It was something that Chuck Joseph and also the other associate dean, John Brueggemann, and I were very interested in. Pat Oles, who was dean of students most of the time we were there, also very interested in. And admissions was quite responsive, so it was really led by admissions. But that was a slow process, but I think the college was transformed maybe over, I'm going to say a 20-year period. I think it was transformative, ultimately. Yeah. LG: Was it driven because of the need to widen the number of students who were coming to Skidmore? SG: No, I think it was driven by a need to keep up with changes that were happening in the academy. I should mention that when I was in the dean's office, I led our re-accreditation effort with the Middle States accreditation, the regional accreditation. That was a major effort. And one of the decisions that we made was to leverage that process to advance changes that we were trying to make. And so we were trying to introduce a new first-year curriculum. We were trying to strengthen the sciences and position ourselves better to qualify for more major grants than we could then qualify for and ultimately, build new science facilities. And we were also trying to strengthen the diversity of the college in every way in every department. So using those topics as part of the accreditation process helped us to advance the conversations because we were asking people to collect the data on these topics and bring those to us. And let's talk about them and what's the story that we have to tell there. I thought that was a very positive way to leverage accreditation to further change, and that was something I was very proud of. It worked. It worked well. I do remember one particular moment where all of the working groups were gathered in a room, and I asked them, I said, "So, what are the connections among these three things, diversity, the first-year experience, and the sciences?" And they looked at me like, "No connections." They were very siloed in their own strategies. And it was pretty thrilling �when Muriel Poston came in as dean of the faculty and just said, "What do you mean there's no connection between diversity and sciences? You need more students in the sciences, right? And you're losing students in the sciences, right?" You know what I mean? It was very, I mean, just such low-hanging fruit to change our ways. LG: So, what are your fondest memories? SG: Of Skidmore? LG: Of your time at Skidmore. SG: This is not a specific one, though actually, I could tell a specific one. But my happiest moments were in that classroom with the door closed when something landed with the students. And there was that slight hush after it landed, and you saw something just happened. It was like something went through the room. I don't know. Of course, I almost said, and often, it was a little transgressive, which is why I can't talk about all of them on a recording. But there would be something fun about it. It would be a way that you could connect with those students. They were young people. They were looking for their own way. Part of me was really interested in just the nostalgia of early 19th century literature, but another part of it was, how are they going to bring the future forward? And I would sometimes teach to that. I will say that I also did love teaching in Intergroup Relations. I don't know if we're almost out of time, but I'd like to take a minute with thatLG: Just go. SG: ... because that was so interesting. Muriel Poston, as dean of the faculty, hired, well, sociology hired Kristie Ford as a brand new PhD. And Muriel said to me, "You keep your eye on her." She came from University of Michigan, where the inter-group dialog program had been begun and developed over 20 years, really. And she wanted to start a program here. It was not a short process. I went out to Michigan, and I went through a training process at the University of Michigan in their program and came back thinking, "That was very powerful. I wonder how that would work here." I wound up teaching with Kristie and getting the program launched. And there were things about it that to me were just quite wonderful, and the main one was the strategies that IGR, Intergroup Relations, programs have for creating a classroom in which very hard conversations can happen and giving those conversations time so that they could develop incrementally. So that you would not, if you're talking about race, which is what it was all about, it was these were race-based dialogs, and the classes were based in dialog. And the students, they were composed of half students of color, half white students. That binary over the course of the semester would get richly textured because everybody would see that just being a white person meant pretty much not very much. Because our �white students, overrepresented in the white students were gay students or LGBTQ, students with invisible disabilities or sometimes visible ones, Jewish students who were very interested in racism in part because of their experiences and familiar experiences of anti-Semitism. And those things would surface, and everything suddenly seemed so much more textured. And those were, again, very powerful moments. And similarly with the students of color, I mean, they came from extremely varied backgrounds with very wideranging differences in how much privilege they had and in their familial expectations and socioeconomics circumstances. So, it would take a semester, and I loved that that would play out. It was sometimes quite imperfect. Some groups were more productive than others in reaching that deeper understanding. LG: Now, these were extracurricular groups? SG: No, no. LG: Or they were part ofSG: They were part of the curriculum. And to Skidmore's credit, we were the first college in the country to offer a minor in IGR. And many other schools are trying to do that now. I think the current one is Amherst College. It's becoming clear that that process of difficult dialog is exactly what we are going to need and also that it's not a one-and-done experience, that it takes time to develop it. For our students in IGR, taking one dialog course is one thing, but taking multiple courses and then serving as a peer facilitator for a dialog course was the moment when really, they would just come to shine. The students who left having done the IGR minor in the years when I was active in the program and stayed in touch with them, well, and also, Kristie's done research on this, it changed them. It changed them permanently, and they use those skills in their work. They talk about that. LG: Sarah, what have you been doing since you retired? And what year did you retire? SG: I retired in 2019. My final year before I retired, I had a sabbatical year because I'd postponed a lot during my time in the dean's office. And I did it on condition that I get a sabbatical year for my final year. And my project for that year was co-curating a show at the Tang Museum, which did turn out to be a pretty much full-time position. LG: Right. SG: We created a marvelous catalog that incidentally won a national award for small museum catalog. It was, I don't know, I want to sayLG: Exhibit was? SG: Oh, sorry. The exhibit was called Like Sugar, and it was a classically interdisciplinary, �transgressive, unexpected, fresh, wild Tang show. And honestly, not because of me. I would've curated a much tamer show, but you don't do that with the Tang. So I just sort of, I buckled up and went along. It was just such an intellectually stimulating experience. LG: And who at the Tang? Excuse me. SG: Who at the Tang? I worked very closely with Rachel Seligman, who was then and is still a curator at the Tang, and then also with a faculty group, Trish Lyell in art, who worked closely with Rachel on selecting the contemporary art that was a major part of the exhibit. Nurcan Helicke, who was Atalan-Helicke, I think she... And she was in environmental studies. But we all crossed over different things, but we were looking in part on the environmental impacts of sugar. And then Monica Raveret Richter from biology. Each of us contributed in different ways. I was very interested in, I'm going to say some of the sociological aspects, so sugar and its impact on race and racism in the United States. I had spent a number of years visiting Baton Rouge every February or every spring and had viewed many of the plantations down there. And had also gone, of all things, to Maui and wound up getting really interested in the sugar plantations there. And started to see that there were some themes here and that sugar was one of those invisible things. I'd always thought of cotton and tobacco as being the great products of enslaved workers in this country's history, but I saw that sugar had also played an enormous role and continues to play an enormous role that just needed somehow to be told. So, I would've had a preachier show probably, but at the same time I think it was perfect in the way it came out because it was unsettling. It was visually very arresting, and it wasn't preachy. It allowed for people to draw some of their own conclusions. And one of the things that was especially moving to me about that show that I didn't anticipate was the number of people who privately admitted to me their own eating disorders that revolved around sugar, and that was quite powerful. I thought, "This is just not something that's talked about that much in public discourse." But sugar is extremely powerful in our culture and is being exported by Americans now all over the world with terrible effects. And I thought that was one of the things that came out in the show as well. On the other hand, another thing that came out was sugar is damn fun. Right? And somehow the idea that those very wildly different emotions and lessons could coexist and be true seemed to me absolutely the best of what Skidmore does. LG: Okay. And since you've retired? SG: Oh, since that. I don't know, I'm really busy, just insanely busy, and so that part hasn't changed. I retired into COVID, and I was not insanely busy during COVID. COVID was this incredible hit pause, nothing happens. I know it sounds crazy, but it was restorative for me. Despite all of the anxieties around the pandemic, I was glad that I wasn't trying to teach during that time. I don't know that I could've done it. I think I was exhausted at that point. �But then I started up two reading groups on race and racism during COVID, one for Skidmore retirees and one for members of my college class. I graduated in the class of 1975 at Harvard, and it turned out there were a lot of people who wanted to do this. I won't describe the history of how that came about. It was completely unexpected to me, but it is still going on. And it is extremely time-consuming, very challenging. It's a mixed race group. We meet once a month, but I got roped into another group that meets another once a month that is slightly broader in topic that's about social justice issues generally. But as it turns out, Harvard is also the nexus right now of a lot of controversy related to race and racism and how colleges and campuses are doing diversity, equity and inclusion. And our group does not all see eye to eye on what's happening on campus at Harvard, and we just... I have to say, I'm using all of my dialog skills to keep that going, and it has been a very powerful experience. I will just add that we've also taken a wide detour since the October 7th Hamas invasion of Israel to incorporate more discussion of anti-Semitism in the group. And that was something I had already experienced in the IGR program at Skidmore on a much smaller scale, so it didn't surprise me. But that hasn't made it any easier to navigate. It's been very complicated and well worth doing. We had a meeting just last night that I thought, "Okay, wow, we got through that one." So that's kept me very busy. I also have four grandchildren, two on the West Coast, two here. I'm going to brag and say my daughter just got tenure at Mount Holyoke this spring and lives close enough that I can go visit but, mostly, not just for the day. So, I do shuttle back and forth a bit to Northampton, and that is a source of incredible delight to me, also a whole new generation to worry about, yay. But otherwise, I want to say something that's very weird and to put this out there is a little hard, but I almost never read poetry. And when I do, I find it hard to do. It's like, it's a part of me that isn't ready to be reawakened. And I read obsessively the news with dread and with horror, and that's not altogether healthy. And I sometimes think, "You know, Sarah, it wouldn't be so bad if you allowed yourself some poetry." LG: Anything else you want to bring up? SG: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I started working out, actually, the year I turned 40. And I don't know why in my academic preparation nobody ever talked about making sure that you think about the body, but it is really true. And in retirement, one of the greatest sources of satisfaction is I can work out in as many ways as I want for as long as I want, and nobody is saying, "Better go grade those papers." LG: Thank you, Sarah. This has been a delight. SG: Thank you. SUE BENDER: Thanks, Sarah. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Skidmore College Retirees Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lynne Gelber Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sarah Goodwin Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs, NY Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 51:28 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Sue Bender Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit April 11, 2024 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Sarah Goodwin Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 11, 2024 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource Sarah Goodwin joined the Skidmore English faculty in 1983 teaching courses in composition, women’s studies, British romantic poetry, feminist theory and participated in the Liberal Studies program.  Her passion was interdisciplinary thinking and courses focusing on student dialogue and diversity.  Intergroup relations were important components which she brought to her role as teacher, English Department Chair and Associate Dean of the Faculty.  Sarah led Skidmore’s Middle States accreditation assessment and later participated in assessments at other schools.  Since retirement in 2019 Sarah has led two reading groups on Race and Racism, one at Harvard and one with Skidmore faculty and staff. 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Title A name given to the resource Mapping a City: Saratoga Springs Through 250 Years of Maps Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 14, 2015 Description An account of the resource Photographs of the exhibition Mapping a City: Saratoga Springs Through 250 Years of Maps from the opening reception, April 14, 2015 Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dym, Jordana Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Dym, Jordana Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource (c) Jordana Dym Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource jpg Type The nature or genre of the resource Photograph https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/878e3a4fa806b9605ac6f26942f32606.jpg 128109595eac0e28fe95caae0b107653 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/481f4b8849648292837e96bc57e93349.m4a 69d3219334afbfa528baa2511fdfdb5a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0015f5078efa840e8d501ff9137ae0b5.pdf f91bf649c477a6c5293ca2442c876b1b PDF Text Text Interviewee: Patricia Rubio Years at Skidmore: 1985 - 2016 Interviewers: Lynne Gelber and Susan Bender Location of Interview: Saratoga Springs, NY Date of Interview: April 14, 2021 00:00:00 Header 00:00:33 Born in Valparaíso, Chile; lived in Viña del Mar; attended small, multilingual, private K-12 school in Valparaíso. 00:01:28 Attended Universidad Católica de Valparaíso - 5 year program for a degree in Spanish 00:02:12 Applied for/received Fulbright Scholarship to attend University of Minnesota 00:03:00 Planned return to Valparaíso to teach, but 1973 military coup changed University situation and prevented return. 00:03:35 March 1974 joined Juan Carlos in Spain and they married there in June 1974 00:03:50 Lived in Barcelona for a year and a half; applied to graduate programs in Canada; attended University of Alberta/lived 5 years in Edmonton. 00:04:41 Came to Skidmore September 1980. Juan Carlos taught and Paty completed dissertation; both applied for green cards; daughter Camila born June 1982. 00:05:35 Because couldn’t return to Chile, had intentionally staggered dissertation completions, so if 1st MLA search unsuccessful, they could stay in Canada while Paty completed dissertation. 00:06:28 In 1984 Paty taught a semester at Middlebury College, VT. Paty & Camila moved to VT, Juan Carlos spent weekends there. 00:07:34 Paty applied to positions at Skidmore and Russel Sage. Offered both; chose Skidmore. 00:08:02 Visa and citizenship processes expensive, time consuming. 00:08:53 Now hiring institutions pay the fees; that has helped Skidmore draw foreign faculty. 00:09:39 Taught 101 - 300 level classes in Spanish American literature and culture. 101 is favorite “because students are a clean linguistic slate and they have a sense that they’re really making progress throughout the semester.” 00:10:33 The few Hispanic undergraduate students at that time “gravitated towards Spanish.” 00:11:30 The Spanish-speaking students had stronger oral skills than grammatical; therefore different needs than the non-Spanish speaking students. 00:12:41 Other roles: 1987-1990 coordinated Self Instructional Languages Program (SILP). 00:14:11 In SILP, students develop oral skills using recordings, a curriculum, and meetings with tutors, most of whom are native speakers. 00:17:00 Also: directed Women’s Studies program, chaired Foreign Languages & Literatures Department for 5 years; Associate Dean of the Faculty for 7 years, was Acting Dean when President Phil Glotzbach went on sabbatical. 00:17:50 Helped move Women’s Studies program from a minor to a major, establishing a curriculum in Women’s Studies. 00:18:31 Goal of Women’s Studies 101: provide overview of the field and current/evolving issues, so covered wide range of topics - theoretical, historical, sociological, political. 00:19:27 In June 1997 brought National Association for Women’s Studies’ annual conference to Skidmore. Collaborated with Special Programs and with Women’s Studies faculty to create program. Great ideas - art exhibits, a film program, a book show, presentations, keynotes, etc. 00:24:44 Challenging, but “I discovered I could do this!” Phyllis Roth empowering influence. �00:25:30 Also, administrator roles were empowering — could improve things for the department. Example - stabilizing adjunct courses by making full-time adjunct positions. 00:27:55 Became Associate Dean when Muriel Poston was Dean. Learned to look at things from broader perspective. 00:30:00 Rubio (from Humanities), Poston (from Sciences) perfect team b/c balanced qualitative & quantitative. Learned how to put problems in context to see various repercussions of small decisions for the departments and college. 00:31:32 As administrator, saw Skidmore as a whole Institution,… possibilities, strengths, weaknesses, places to concentrate, who to talk to, who can help? 00:32:00 “It’s fascinating! … those seven years that I was in the Dean’s office, I liked every single one. … I just loved every minute of it.” 00:32:38 Interest in diversity arose first with students — realizing how the Latino students felt… that one of the reasons they came to study Spanish is because they found people like them. 00:33:53 Latino Cultural Society was first Latino student organization - evolved into RAICES. 00:34:17 Another source of interest in diversity was the program itself - Foreign languages … by definition [a] diverse topic …foreign languages, foreign cultures. 00:34:35 And Muriel Poston herself; the first Black Dean of the Faculty in a mostly white institution & white community. Had to go to Glens Falls simply to get hair done. When Poston interviewed at Skidmore, she asked to meet with faculty of color. There were only 5 or 6. 00:35:17 Once Dean, Poston asked faculty to examine department hiring processes to determine usefulness in attracting faculty of color. 00:35:40 When Beau Breslin became Dean, he appointed [Rubio] Associate Dean for Diversity. Skidmore hired consultants to improve hiring processes. Success in that effort due in part to great support from Deans Muriel Poston and Beau Breslin and President Phil Glotzbach. 00:37:35 A position description/ad exhibits “the seriousness of the institution … in terms of hiring faculty of color.” Hiring processes changed, following consultant’s advice. 00:39:12 Retired 2016 00:41:03 Since retiring, annually travels to Chile for several months to help sister run her restaurant and to visit lifelong friends; in summers volunteers with Saratoga backstretch workers, teaching English as a second language; plays golf; on board of Saratoga Film Forum and Saratoga Chamber Players; passionate about working in yard and garden. 00:43:06 Also reads a lot. “Now I’d rather read than write. Juan Carlos taught me that. …at some point he said, ‘I’m done with research. I don’t want to write any more, I want to read.' And that makes sense to me now. It didn’t then but it makes sense to me now.” 00:44:21 END � https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c65a837e139652e712cc71568c96093f.pdf d1c119146a7bb209bf72eb7cb8c16e85 PDF Text Text Interview with Patricia Rubio by Lynne Gelber, Skidmore College Retiree Oral History Project, Saratoga Springs, New York, April 14, 2021. LYNNE GELBER: This is Lynne Gelber. I am with Susan Bender. It is April 14th, 2021, and we are interviewing Patricia Rubio for the Oral History Project. So … PATRICIA RUBIO: Thank you for having me. LG: It’s our pleasure and thank you for doing this. PR: Well, my pleasure. LG: Patty, why don’t you tell us a little bit about where you were born and brought up and your early schooling. PR: Sure. I was born in Valparaíso, Chile, but lived from ages six to 23 in Viña del Mar. Valparaíso’s twin city. My three sisters and I went to a small private school in Valparaíso. There were about 600 students between kindergarten and 12th grade, and most of the instruction in elementary school was done in German. So, I was introduced to a foreign languages at age 5 in kindergarten. and graduated from this school thirteen years later with additional solid instruction in English which was introduced in seventh grade. I was very fortunate to have had access to that kind of education. Classes were very small, never more than fourteen to fifteen students; there were seven students in my senior class most of whom I had known since kindergarten or first grade. I interrupted my studies in my junior year to come to live with a family and attend high school in Storrs, CT. in 1962. This was also an important experience in my upbringing. After high school I entered college. LG: In Valparaíso? �PR: Yes. The college system in Chile follows the European model, which means that one has decided in one’s two last years of high school the career one will pursue. From very early in high school I knew that I wanted to teach and I liked literature and history so I pursued a degree in Spanish. So Spanish and Latin American literature and culture with a very solid foundation in syntax and linguistics. It’s a five-year program that included one year of Latin and Greek, theoretical linguistics, syntax and normative grammar. The objective of the program was to prepare students to teach the Spanish high school curriculum which included Spanish, Chilean and Spanish American literature plus Spanish grammar and writing. I had also made up my mind while in college, to pursue graduate study, at least a Masters degree. So, in my last year at the university, I applied for a Fulbright Scholarship which I received. LG: And that was at Valparaíso? PR: Yes, at the Universidad Católica de Valparaíso. In those days, this 1969-70, Fulbright assigned prospective students to graduate programs at Universities in the U.S.. In Chile I had begun to pursue an academic career through teaching assistant positions in Spanish American literature. I was approached to teach General Literature, and so a degree in Comparative literature was appropriate. The idea was that I would return from the U.S. with an M.A. to a position that included General Literature as part of my teaching duties. But things happened. The military took over the government in 1973, during my first semester at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. The situation at the University in Chile changed and I never returned. Instead of Chile, I left for Spain in March 1974, and married Juan Carlos in June of that year. �LG: In Barcelona? PR: In the Barcelona area. We lived in Barcelona for a year and a half, knowing that it was just a stop in the voyage, and went to Canada to pursue our PhDs in Hispanic literatures and the University of Alberta. We lived in Edmonton for five years which despite the extreme harsh winters we really enjoyed. We staged it so that Juan Carlos would defend his dissertation before I did so that we would have two possible hiring rounds for finding jobs in this part of the world. Jobs were not easy to find. Lynne, you were the chair of Modern Languages and Literatures then and you hired both of us. Thank you for having done so! LG: The rest is history! [laughter] LG: So, when you came here you were not initially teaching but then …? PR: Well, what happened is that Juan Carlos came with an H-1B visa, which allowed him to work and I had a visa that allowed me to live in the country but not to work. We applied for the green card in Juan Carlos’ second year here, had Camila, and waited patiently for the INS to do its work. The process was successful, and we became citizens five or six years later. LG: You came to Skidmore? PR: We both came to Skidmore in September 1980. LG: OK. PR: When we came, I was ABD, Juan Carlos had finished his degree. I had been awarded a thesis scholarship, which would have allowed us to stay for an additional year in Canada. In our first year here I completed the dissertation. I taught at Middlebury College in a one semester replacement in 1984. Camila, who was a toddler, and I moved to Vermont. LG: Camilla was born here. �PR: Yes. Remember LG: I do remember because we decorated the office. PR: [laughter] Yeah. Yes, she was born in June 1982. You gave Juan Carlos a really good schedule according to which he started teaching late on Mondays and ended early on Friday afternoon so that he would be able to drive to Middlebury to spend the weekend with us. It was a tough semester. I had never taught in the US; they had hired me because they needed someone who would be able to teach Spanish American Culture and Civilization. Every class was a new prep. I remember spending every Saturday at the library preparing classes, while Juan Carlos took care of Camila. Sunday was a family day. After we obtained our permanent visa, I applied for several positions in the area, including Skidmore. The faculty had changed the curriculum and passed a foreign language requirement. So the department needed to hire two additional faculty and, as I said before, you hired me. I also had an offer from Russel Sage but of course I chose Skidmore. LG: Thank goodness! PR: Either before or after Middlebury, but during the visa process during which I was allowed to work, you hired me to teach part time: one Spanish language course each in the fall and the spring. If I remember well, it was Intermediate Spanish. LG: As I recall, we were able to use the services of the lawyer for the College, in Glens Falls. PR: That was in order to get the renewal of Juan Carlos’ H-1B. We hired a lawyer from Albany to help us with the application process for the residency visa. In those days, the Institution didn’t have to pay for the process. After the immigration law changed, the hiring institution is responsible for the fees �which are very high. We are fortunate that Skidmore has been able to do that because it explains in part the success the institution has had in hiring foreign faculty in the past five years. A good number of the foreign faculty come with an H1-B visas which is the entry way to permanent residency. LG: I vaguely remember that. PR: Yes. LG: So what courses were you teaching? PR: Where? LG: At Skidmore. PR & LG: [laughter] LG: Thank you. PR: That’s O.K. Well you know that in our department, everyone teaches the whole gamut of courses So I taught beginning Spanish and all the way up to 300 level classes including Spanish American literature and culture. LG: And what were your favorite? PR: My favorite? I always liked to teach 101, because students are a clean linguistic slate, and they have a sense that they’re really making progress throughout the semester. The more fortunate ones, during Christmas break, would travel to a Spanish speaking country where they realized that they could read a menu, could be really helpful to their families in negotiating the cities, reading signs, etc... This was a powerful experience and they would come back really energized and ready for more. LG: How many Hispanic students were there in the undergraduate population at that point? PR: Few. They gravitated towards Spanish courses, thinking that being Latino also meant being Latin American; and some were immigrants themselves. It was very nice to have, particularly at the upper level, students from diverse �backgrounds. They contributed points of view and diverse ideas to class discussion. At the upper level, that is in literature and culture and civ courses, there were always a number of native Spanish speakers, and that was also nice. In these classes we read sophisticated materials and they were able to help their classmates to plough through the texts. Nowadays Latino students are aware of their identity as citizens of this country. Many take Spanish classes because they want to increase their language abilities and learn about their cultural and family backgrounds. LG: As I recall, those students had an oral knowledge. Is that correct? Yes, they did. Their oral skills outperformed their ability to write correctly in Spanish. Often first or second-generation students had the most difficulties because they were fluent but their knowledge of the language was not normative; their grammar was not accurate. Our curriculum back then was mostly intended for non-native speakers and those courses were in many ways not well suited for students who had leaned Spanish at home without formal instruction. LG: And they didn’t have any grammar skills? PR: Most of them did not. The grammar accuracy was all over the place [laughter]. LG & SUE BENDER: [laughter] SB: Spanglish. PR: [laughter] Well, a lot of Spanglish, like, “How are you?” “Nada mucho,” which in Spanish means, “he or she swims a lot.” Very difficult linguistic habits to undo. But this was the Spanish they heard and spoke in their communities, and it worked for them. Many of them were eager to learn normative grammar. �I also very much liked teaching mixed populations of students: US majority students with Latino students. LG: So you had other responsibilities in the course of your career? PR: Yes. it started with the Self-Instructional Languages program. You appointed me as coordinator in 1987 a position that I held until 1990. Sonja Karsen had established the program in the seventies and coordinated it until she retired. LG: Sonja Karsen, who was the … chair of the department? PR: For twenty-two years, right? LG: Until … PR: Until she stepped down and you became chair. LG: Yeah … PR: The Self-Instructional Languages program contributed to the language offerings of the department. It included, LG: Arabic and Hebrew. PR: Yes, Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese and Russian. LG: Russian, how could I forget? PR: We then added Korean and Sanskrit. SILP was and continues to be a very successful program, it allows the College to offer twelve languages, which is impressive. And it is popular program with students. Years after I had stepped down and began to chair the department, the program was enrolling close to 80 students. The SILP languages continue to be a venue for the fulfillment of the language requirement. LG: Say one or two words about what the Self-Instructional Language Program is. PR: Sure. The focus is on developing aural and oral skills. Students meet with a tutor (most tutors are native speakers), twice a week for an hour. Students have to have prepared the material before coming to the tutoring session, �thus the name of the program. At the tutoring session, they discuss and practice material, and agree on the assignment for the following week. Tutors guide and monitor students’ progress. During my time with the program, students had a textbook and tapes as learning materials. They followed the curriculum developed by the Self Instructional Languages Association. Tutoring groups are small, not to exceed 5 students per language section. When the number of registered students exceeded five, as it often happened in Hebrew, for example, students were placed into parallel sections. This allowed for ample time for discussion and practice and ultimately students had more one-on-one time with the tutor than in a regular class that met three times a week with 15 students. LG: And the instructor is a native speaker except for Sanskrit. PR: And Arabic and Hebrew PR: The person who tutors in Arabic, has a doctorate in Arabic linguistics, and the person in Hebrew, although she was not from Israel, was very successful and probably the longest serving tutor in the program. Both were there when I took over the coordination of the program and remained long after I had stepped down. I believe that Regina Hurwitz still tutors Arabic. LG: Well … PR: At the end of the semester students were tested by an outside examiner. The SILP Association helped us to identify potential outside examiners when necessary. The Japanese examiner came from Cornell, the one for Hebrew from the State University at Buffalo, the examiner for Russian from the U of Albany, etc. LG: And what was your role? PR: As coordinator I met with each student interested in the SILP language before �they registered in order to explain how the program functioned and what their responsibilities would be. It was important for them to understand, for example, that the grade they received in the final exam was the grade for the course. That they needed to work diligently during the semester even if they were not being tested periodically for a grade. Any testing given during the semester was only diagnostic. The program was not open to first year students. The thinking was that there are too many claims on their time that could interfere with the independent study of the language. I also coordinated the tutoring schedules and liaised with the Registrar’s Offic. I hired the examiners and set the final exam schedule. Examiners often were not local. I was also the person to go for tutors and students in case of grievances or problems. LG: What other roles did you have in the course of your career? PR: I directed the Women’s Studies program for four years, succeeding Mary Stange who had been the first director of the program. I thoroughly enjoyed this assignment. A number of my courses in the Foreign Languages and Literatures department counted towards the WS minor and the major. During my time as director, the faculty approved the major. During my time as director, we expanded the WS curriculum to include one intermediate level course and the senior seminar. The WS faculty was very supportive of the various initiatives that we pursued and contributed to various tasks when necessary. Although the program had existed for over a decade, it cemented its place among other interdisciplinary programs once the major was approved. The generation of women faculty that preceded me, and most of whom were tenured professors before I joined the College in 1984, had worked hard in building the program. Most of them were very committed to �enriching and delivering the curriculum, advising students, supervising theses, and in mentoring incoming women faculty. . When I stepped down from WS I became chair of the FLL, a position I occupied for five years. I then became Associate Dean of the Faculty a position I held for seven years. LG: What was, do you think, in all those years, your biggest challenge? PR: Every administrative position brought different challenges; that is what made each so interesting; everyone presented opportunities for professional and personal growth. For example, when I became WS director, the program was ready to move from a minor to a major. The proposal for the major was a collective WS faculty undertaking spearheaded by Kate Berheide and myself. Kate, a professor in Sociology, had experience in WS program design. The WS faculty, had a central role in the discussion and approval of the final proposal. The process took over a year from start to finish, that is from when we began to work on the proposal to college faculty approval. We needed to have all our ducks in a row as we knew that we would face some opposition from a number of principally male segments of the faculty. Although the vote was not unanimous the proposal passed by a sizable majority. It would be interesting to revisit the minutes of that Faculty Meeting. As a result of the major’s approval, student interest in WS grew so that it became necessary, for example, to offer two sections of WS 101 every semester. This was huge because we were able to increase the number of students interested in pursuing the major or minor. On average, during my time as director, we majored about 8 students per year, which was not small for an interdisciplinary program. �LG: Did you teach the 101 course? PR: Yes, I did for the four years I headed the program. It loved the course; the curriculum was broad and interesting; student interest was high and 101 engaged them in a journey of discovery regarding their own identity as women. Although the majority of students were women, there were one or two men per year who were curious took it. There were no male majors during my time s director. LG: And generally, what kinds of things did you cover in that course? PR: It included the history of the US women’s and feminist movements; women’s political struggles and involvement in the fight for the vote, the ERA. Their participation in the antislavery and temperance movements. We studied feminist theory; the history of women’s pursuit for the control of our bodies; the political, social and personal consequences of women’s social roles in patriarchal societies and in the patriarchal workplace; the intersections between gender, race, ethnicity and class. We also read literature, notedly Atwood’s A Handmaid’s Tale; some poetry. The objective of the course was for students to understand the discipline; the areas of knowledge that define Women’s Studies. To provide a solid base for the rest of the curriculum. LG: Now, what do you recall from those years that you were directing the Women’s Studies program? PR: I recall many things. I recall the importance for the institution of having a vibrant, energetic community of female faculty. We built community by means of, for example, weekly brown-bag lunches, two WS potluck dinners per year which were open to students and staff as well; faculty meetings to discuss issues pertaining the program: curriculum, staffing needs, program objectives, invited speakers, etc. These were always occasions to welcome and recruit incoming faculty, to learn about each other’s teaching and �research. Students were involved in several of these activities: they were part of the Steering committee, and as I have said6 invited to WS sponsored activities. In terms of challenges, the four-day National Women’s Studies Association meeting, in June 1997 was huge. Phyllis Roth, then Dean of the Faculty and Vice-president of Academic Affairs. was approached by Marjorie Prise, then President of the NWSA, about the possibility of hosting the 1997 annual meeting. Marjorie was then Professor of English at the University of Albany, and I was incoming director of Women’s Studies. Phyllis consulted with Mary and me, and we decided to accept the challenge. And a challenge it was!! Mary went on sabbatical and I attended the NWSA 1995 meeting at the University of Oklahoma, in order to meet with members of the NWSA leadership, and to observe how the conference was structured and ran. There were over 500 participants at the Tulsa meeting, and we needed to plan for similar attendance at Skidmore. It exceeds the scope of this interview to detail what the planning and organization for the conference entailed. Suffice it to say that central to its success was the active involvement of the WS faculty, and the collaboration with Sharon Arpey in Special Programs. The Women’s Studies faculty and I worked on the ‘academic’ program, while Sharon Arpey undertook the ‘non-academic’ aspects of the event (housing, food, infrastructure, etc.). She and I worked closely for two years. The conference included a film program, a sculpture show in South Park, a women-faculty art show in Schick Gallery, a large book exhibit in the gym, dozens and dozens of presentations, several keynote speakers, and a healthy dose of minor controversies. �LG: So you were coordinating, what, with the library and with the Tang? PR: The Tang did not exist back then; we had an exhibit at the library on women in Skidmore’s history organized by Mary Lynn who, with some of her students drew materials from the College archive. LG: OK LG: It sounds like it was most fun. PR: Yes, it was. I also discovered that I could successfully work on a large project. At first, when Phyllis said that it would be my undertaking, I said, “Sure, why not” and when I left her office I thought, “By golly! What did I just get into? LG: Very empowering, isn’t it? PR: Yes, it was, and I thank Phyllis for having given me the opportunity and for having confidence in me. Typical Phyllis: she gave opportunities for people to grow and develop. I remember in my first year chatting with her while we walked across campus; at some point she said, “Well, you know, in the future you’ll be chair of the department,” and I thought, Really? Am I hearing right? So going back to your earlier question, Lynne, of major challenges, every one of the positions presented worthy challenges. Chairing the FLL was also a huge challenge. But by then I had discovered that I could be an effective administrator and I wanted to be chair. I had also learned that I could work with various individuals, even with those with whom I was not particularly simpatico. All of that was very empowering, as you said before, and I needed every bit of that experience as head of the FLL. You were chair of the department for a good chunk of time, you know how complicated it is to head a multi-section department; every section has its needs, the whole is �larger than the sum of its parts. I always thought that one of the main challenges in the department was the imbalance of its structure: two large section, French and Spanish, and four smaller sections, Chinese, Japanese, German and Italian, three of which were unevenly staffed. So when Chuck Joseph who was Dean of the Faculty interviewed me for the position, I told him that one of my objectives as chair would be to stabilize the small sections. So that they would feel better in the department, not overwhelmed by the two large sections. It was hard to keep the department engaged in everything, knowing that colleagues in the small sections, often felt that their voices were not as strong as those in the large sections. So I said to Chuck “There are three sections — Japanese, Chinese, and German — that only have one full time faculty and also adjuncts; it is always a problem in Saratoga find good adjuncts for those positions. I told him that I wanted to upgrade the second position to full-time. It would also free tenure and tenure track faculty to participate in the delivery if the all-College requirement. He agreed, and we created a second full-time position in German, Japanese and Chinese. Italian had been stabilized when Giuseppe became chair; at that point we hired a second person into a tenure track position. PR: So that objective was realized, and I still feel proud of it. The other major undertaking was guiding the the self-study necessary for the 10-year review, so once the review was done, I was ready to go. You know? There were other colleagues wanting to be chair and, who had other ideas for the department, and that’s important. PR: Then Muriel became Dean, and after … LG: Muriel? PR: Poston. Muriel Poston became Dean, and after her first Associate Dean, Mark �Hoffman, stepped down — he had only made a commitment for two years, — there was a call for interested faculty in the ADOF position. I threw my hat in. Ultimately, Muriel offered me the position which was an entirely different ballgame. In all the other administrative positions I dealt with specific, more or less narrowly defined tasks: hiring, the schedule, tending to faculty needs, mentoring incoming or pre-tenure faculty, connecting to the DOF, etc. In the Dean’s Office, one gets to see the institution from a very different venue. It was, like, “Wow, this is really something that I’ve never done.” Muriel had a broad and deep understanding of US higher education. She had also worked at the National Science Foundation, was a member of a number of associations of higher ed, was very interested in educational policy, in diversity issues. I learned enormously from her. During the three years that I worked with her she sent me to conferences, encouraged me to meet other ADOFs from different institutions, to get involved in various groups and tasks. For the first time I understood how narrowly I had understood my position and responsibilities at the institution; how little I knew of the big picture of higher education writ large. This is not just the department, this is not just my course, this is not just my research, but this is the institution, nationally. LG: So … ok, when …oh, alright. So when you are talking about writ large, are you talking about things like finances and, are you talking about …? PR: Mmm, I am mostly talking about the academic area. As the ADOF, one of my responsibilities was academic space: labs, research areas, classrooms, studios, etc., When we hire, particularly in the sciences, can we accommodate that person in terms of their lab needs? Finance, not directly, but most everything that one wishes or needs to do is budgetarily possible or not. One of my tasks was to try to find the money; talk to folks in financial �affairs. The same with faculty positions. I was in charge of all non-tenure track hiring. Every one of those positions needed approval from Financial Affairs. What was incredibly interesting fin working with Muriel is that she her disciplinary training was in the natural sciences and for her data is central. So, I would bring an issue to her, and she would say, what is your data? We would discuss it and at some point it became clear that we were interpreting it differently. She, from a quantitative and I from qualitative perspective. She would frequently say, “but the data, Paty, suggests that…” and I’d said, “yes, but not everything is data, Muriel.” Right? “What do you mean?” “Well, there are ambiguities, you know. Look at the data from this perspective” And because she was very smart, she would say, “Oh, ok, fine. Let’s then rethink it.” The process was fascinating. She had the ability of seeing both the particular and the general at the same time. Discussions would begin at the micro level and often by the time she was done with it, we were able to understand the larger implications. I had never worked with a person like Muriel. PR: I wanted to help Muriel to understand the culture of the institution. She came to us from the National Science Foundation. She was an outsider; the only black woman in the upper administration; she had not worked at a small liberal arts college before; and she needed help on how to … and so how to get people to get to know her; she was shy. And I was not always successful in creating opportunities for her to know the faculty. I mean, you know, I was part of the administration, but I was unable to solve the problem fully. So, in that sense, I failed, if you will. My experience in the Dean’s Office, however, was amazing. For the first time I understood the institutional �possibilities and the limitations. When Muriel left, Beau Breslin stepped into the Dean’s position. My job changed in interesting ways as faculty development and diversity were added to my duties. I had learned much from Muriel about the importance and need for hiring diverse faculty across the institution. It would be too long to detail what we did. Suffice it to say that Beau moved along what Muriel had begun; after four years the profile of the Skidmore faculty was beginning to change. It wasn’t easy. Departments were not always ready to shed their old procedures. “We shouldn’t do it this way”, “We have never done it this way”. But finally, everyone bought into it. It was fascinating. LG: Icing on the cake? PR: Icing on the cake, yeah. (00:32:25 ) SB: Could I ask a question? PR: Sure. SB: Talking about the institution, … LG: This is Susan talking. SB: This is Susan talking, yeah. [laughs] We were talking about your Institution wide perspective in engagement, Patty. I know that diversity was a topic near and dear … maybe Lynne was heading in that direction, but near and dear to your heart, and I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the source of your commitment to diversity and what you believe, over the years, how Skidmore changed in that regard? What some of the successes, challenges were and some of the challenges that still remain? PR: The source of my initial interest was connected to students, really, specifically to the Latino students. When I came to Skidmore, a steady number of them, particularly Latinas took my classes, my lit and culture classes mostly. And as a result, I developed relationships with students, and realized the cultural �confusion of many of them. I taught language courses and Spanish American lit and culture. We did not then have courses on LatinX studies which is what they were really craving for. Mine and other courses in the department could only partially fulfill their need for understanding part of their cultural identity. So, with a little bit of guidance they created the Latino Cultural Society which was the first Latino student organization at Skidmore; it then became RAICES. It helped then to consolidate their position at the institution which was and still is majority white. They brought speakers, organized social and cultural events. They were a diverse bunch with various backgrounds. And then, of course, came Muriel. Muriel Poston, again. You know, the first Black Dean of the Faculty in a mostly very white institution. LG: And white community. PR: And white community. In order to get her hair cut she had to go to Glens Falls … to get her hair done. There aren’t any men or women hair stylists in the Saratoga area who know how to cut or style African American hair. When Muriel visited Skidmore, she asked to meet with faculty of color. Chuck Joseph, then Dean of the Faculty, asked me that morning to put together a group to meet with her in the afternoon. There were five or six of us in the room. One of the first things she did as Dean was to ask chairs and program directors to look at their hiring processes, to interrogate whether it was a friendly hiring process or, whether that hiring process was useful in order to attract faculty of color. We had never been asked to include diversity into our hiring processes. PR: And, … but things really got working when Beau became Dean. SB: Beau? �PR: Breslin. Because Muriel could only take it so far and she was in the office for five years only. Right? As Assistant Dean of the First-Year Experience, Beau was part of Muriel’s staff and part of the discussions we frequently had on diversity. So when he became Dean, he embraced diversity as one of his agendas. And then when he became VPAA and Dean of the Faculty, he appointed me as Associate Dean for Diversity. And we hired Pat Romney Associates, in order to streamline across departments, the hiring process. Uh, there was a lot of screaming and shouting [laughs], “We don’t want to do it this way. We’ve always done it this other way. Why do have to do this?” and Beau was firm. I mean, the success of the diversity agenda is not necessarily mine. I would never have been able to do anything as Associate Dean without the Dean really pushing for it. And Phil also was very much on boar; it became a priority for him. LG: Phil PR: Phil Glotzbach, the President. There were budgetary implications. Pat Romney came to campus twice a year to run a workshop on diverse hiring that began with “this is the way that the ad needs to be written. The diversity statement is not at the end, the diversity statement is in the middle.” I mean, things like that. Because diversity is not an afterthought. Faculty of color, domestic faculty of color are very attuned to how the ads read. The ad says a lot about how serious the institution is in terms of hiring faculty of color. I was in charge of the process, in terms of making sure that every single ad was appropriately written, that it followed the guidelines; there were also protocols regarding the selection of finalists, for the campus visits that every department needed to follow. I was very passionate about this work. It felt so meaningful. I worked very hard with departments and programs and it was a job that I loved and it was successful. I mean, look at the diversity of the �faculty now. It’s huge! And so … but if it hadn’t been, early for Muriel, next for Beau, my interest would have been just my interest, but it would of not have translated in real changes for the Institution. LG: Are there other things that we haven’t covered that we should talk about your career? When did you retire from Skidmore? PR: It’s been five years, so I’ll …[laughs] No, it’s in 2015. But really, I retired in 2016. What happened is, I was due a sabbatical which delayed by retirement date. It was time. Seven years in the DOF, it was time. And I had to choose. You both know this well … as interesting as the work is, it becomes a chore, and the chore for me were the CAPT cases particularly having to read the student teaching evaluations. One year there was a candidate in the dance department where most faculty teach only one and two credit classes. That year I read thousands of student evals. And I knew that the coming cohorts would be larger. We had been hiring over ten new faculty per year: too many evaluations. I just couldn’t do it again. It’s like, “Why did you retire from the English Department, or History, or you name the department?” “I don’t want to read another composition or essay.” Exactly that. So it was time for somebody else to do it. And, … so seven years was a long time. How long were you in the DOF? SB: Four PR: Four, yeah. LG: So, what have you been doing since you retired? PR: Oh, depending on the time of the year. I go to Chile for three or four months or sometimes twice in one year. I help my sister in her restaurant in Santiago. When I am there she can take a vacation; I run her restaurant for �her; it’s a lot of work but also great fun. Most of the time we work side by side which I really enjoy. I’ve lived for 40 years in the United States, and one of the things that I decided when I retired was that I wanted to go back to Chile a lot to visit my sisters, my family. And, I’ve done that. Also I still have a number of good friends I have a dual identity. LG: Friends here or in Chile? PR: In both places but I meant in Chile. Many of them are school friends. The classes were small we made life-long friendships. With four or five, we’ve been friends for what, 67 years? I also read a lot and I do some volunteering, particularly in the summer for the Backstretch at the horse racing track. A large number of the backstretch workers are Latin American. I’ve also taught English there also, in the summer. LG: As a second language? PR: As a second language. Umm, I also play golf. I love the game; I started playing golf with my father when I was 12. LG: Oh? PR: He was a sports person so as he grew older, he gave up tennis for golf. I started playing it again here in the US after not playing it for about 15 years. It brings really good memories from my late childhood and as a young adult in Viña del Mar. When I retired, I first thought that I would complete some research projects that were interrupted by the time I was in the administration. But after a bit I thought: what’s the point? Who will read what I write? �LG: You’ve turned the page. PR: Yeah, I mean, I’d rather read than write. Juan Carlos taught me that. You know, at some point he said, “I’m done with research. I don’t want to write any more, I want to read.” And that makes sense to me now. It didn’t then but it makes sense to me now. LG: Now of course you are on the board of the … PR: Of course, yeah, well, yeah, and I was on the film board when the Film Forum existed, and then you invited me to be on the board of the Saratoga Chamber Players, and that’s been great. And I work in my yard, my garden, which is my passion. [laughs] LG: And how does your garden grow? PR: Oh wow. It does sure grow, when… LG: This time of year. PR: Yeah, this time of year. LG: Anything else we should cover? SB: Nope. LG: Good? PR: Good? Ok. LG: Alright. Thank you sooo, so much. PR: Oh, my pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. END � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Skidmore College Retirees Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lynne Gelber Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Patricia Rubio Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 44:21 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Susan Bender Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit October 24, 2022 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Patricia Rubio Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 14, 2021 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource Patricia Rubio began her career at Skidmore in 1983 after graduating from Valparaiso University in Chile and, after arrival at Skidmore, her PhD at the University of Alberta in Canada. She filled many roles at Skidmore - coordinator of the self-instructional language program, Director of Women’s Studies, Chair of the Department of Foreign Languages & Literatures, and Associate Dean of the Faculty. Since retirement in 2016 she has helped run her sister’s restaurant in Chile, taught ESL to backstretch workers at the Saratoga track, played a great deal of golf and serves as chair of the board of the Saratoga Chamber Players. In this interview she also discusses the complexity of the self-instructional language program, changes in the Women’s Studies program and its evolution to a full major, the influence of Dean of Faulty Phyllis Roth, her work with Dean Muriel Poston, and issues of diversity. Language A language of the resource English (en) Subject The topic of the resource Retiree Oral History Project Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Oral History Beau Breslin Diversity Emigration to U.S. Latino Students Latino Studies Muriel Poston Phil Glotzbach Phyllis Roth Self-Instructional Languages Spanish American Literature Women's Studies https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/62ba7e0aa9205173d4fdc56de0f5798f.JPG 9e0b0b910b2bc1c9de1669a066c47184 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/46417c11384a8690d42e958c43fbfac4.jpg 7ccc4e82547e6c6dfb1b43aee7a72f82 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Description An account of the resource Nursing Program brochure cover, 1962. Rory Pond '65 (left); Janet Allan '64 (right) https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c046380e4468d6b65e635a1e0f9200fc.mp4 74b6075b34c0d6ca7001d6c890f4959b https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/439b811781c7a4c2f5b911171c1715a2.pdf 9ec19f3d8753832f66779ea64c69dd0f PDF Text Text Interview with Janet Allan '64 by Emma Griffin '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, April 15, 2019. NOTE: Below is an edited version of the audio interview, some information and details have been reordered, removed and grammar corrected by the interviewee for ease of reading. EMMA GRIFFIN [0:00:47]: Where were you from when you decided to attend Skidmore’s Nursing program? JANET ALLAN [0:00:52]: I grew up in Roslyn, Long Island and attended Roslyn High School. EG [0:01:02]: Second question. Did your family have a background in the field of medicine? JA [0:01:07]: No, no my parents had no medical background...I'm a first generation American. My parents immigrated in 1930 from Scotland and they left school in ninth grade. They believed that education was the path to a better life for their children, therefore, they supported my goal to attend college. EG [0:01:24]: Gotcha. Third question, what was your educational background before you joined this program or your work history? JA [0:01:54]: Aside from babysitting, I worked age 12 until high school graduation as a page in the town library, The William Cullen Bryant Library (he lived in Roslyn and was a poet and newspaper editor). I had a social security number from age 12. I worked after school 3 days a week from 4-6 and 40 hours per week in the summer. I was able to save most of my earnings for college. Though Roslyn was a public high school, it was considered an academic high school. 95% of my graduating class went to college. If I hadn’t been a nursing major, Skidmore would have given me two years of college credit for my work in HS. EG [0:02:21]: Gotcha, wonderful, wow! Um, let’s see...ok, part two is program questions, what drew you to the Skidmore program? Why did you want to go? JA [0:02:44]: When I met with my high school guidance counselor in my junior year, he offered only two options for female students; nursing or teaching. I was very shy so the thought of teaching scared me, so I chose nursing. The guidance counselors were woefully behind the times not only in career options for women but about nursing education. He said, ‘Well, you just have to go to a diploma school to get your nursing.’ I wanted to go to college and knew there were nursing programs at certain colleges. This goal was supported by my former babysitter who had graduated from Adelphi University’s nursing program. She encouraged me to apply to several college programs in the State. So, I applied to several schools including Skidmore. I didn’t really think I would be accepted at Skidmore (again my Counselor said that no woman from Roslyn had ever been accepted) or could afford the cost. I loved Skidmore’s nursing program which had an excellent reputation but I had no hope of being admitted. Three of us were accepted �(two nursing majors and an English major). I had only applied to New York State schools because I had earned a New York State Regents Scholarship and a New York State Nursing Scholarship, both applied only to New York State schools. New York State offered a 4-year Regents curriculum to all high schools which required extensive exams at the end of each year. Long story short, I was accepted at Skidmore with a full 4-year scholarship as a work study student. I worked in the library as a freshman and in Health as a nursing aide as a senior. This scholarship and the funds from the Regents scholarships enabled me to attend Skidmore EG [0:04:51]: Wow, that was all determination there! JA [0:04:55]: Well, I was very fortunate. EG [0:04:59]: Yes. Well, let’s see...you kinda talked a little bit about your sense of the program before it started, so it was, I would assume, something that you were very excited about JA [0:05:14]: Yes, I had thought a lot more about nursing and became more excited seeing the curriculum that Skidmore offered as well as the two clinical years in New York City. EG [0:05:39]: Fair enough. Um, tell me what it was like in the program, what was the structure of the program and what classes did you take? JA [0:05:46]: Okay. Well, it was a totally lockstep curriculum. The first year was nearly all science with one required Freshman English course. The sophomore and junior years were in New York City and the courses were year-long with no summer breaks. I don't know if you've had a chance to go to the, archivist and see the material I sent. This was the 1960-1964 curriculum. EG [0:05:50]: Yes, yes. JA [0:06:00]: Okay. So, freshman year involved a year of chemistry, a year of anatomy and physiology that including dissecting a cat in a year-long lab, a semester of microbiology that also included a lab, a semester of psychology and a semester course in nursing history. Lastly, we had an English course required of all freshman. Our schedule was so packed that we had little time for extracurricular activities. We had the cat dissection for 3 hours. We kept our cats in plastic bags in large garbage cans. I had a roommate who was not a nursing major and she wouldn't let me in the room after lab until I showered because I smelled so much from the formaldehyde, it was a very tough academic year but successfully completing the coursework made us all proud, totally bonded and beginning to feel like nurses. The second year and the third year we were in New York City because of the wide range of clinical opportunities offered. We were mostly at NYU hospital in our junior year except for a week at the VA for a TB rotation. In our junior year we rotated to Cornell Medical for maternity, NY Psychiatric for psych, NYU for leadership and in the summer Community Health at the NYC VNA (my placement in Little Italy) or the city Public �Health Clinics. It was a fabulous two years of incredible clinical experiences and the joy of living and exploring New York City. Grateful patients would leave tickets to the theater or concerts at the nursing faculty office in NYU Hospital. One could see a play or attend a concert almost any evening. We mostly didn’t because we were exhausted and had to study. EG [0:08:06]: Oh, keep going, yeah. JA [0:08:09]: I think we were about 30 of us that eventually got through the first year and could continue into the sophomore year in NYC which began in the fall. That summer, I worked as an aide at a county hospital on Long Island. It was a good experience and I learned a lot. To house us in New York City, Skidmore rented two floors in the NYU medical student dorm, which was a 12-story building on the East River at 30th and 1st Avenue. We also housed the NYU female medical students, all 4 of them. How things have changed. The sophomore 12-month curriculum involved skills lab to learn basic nursing skills and rotations in adult medicine, pediatrics and a week-long TB rotation at the VA. We had didactic classes with each rotation. These courses were given in a classroom at the Hospital. We did all of our clinicals (except TB) at University Hospital on 20th St and Second Ave. We walked the 10 blocks down 1st Ave, past Bellevue Hospital and the VA to University Hospital. NYU Hospital was private so we worked with community-based MDs who were very kind to us. We did have to give them our chairs in the chartroom. The skills we learned were pretty basic (bed making, bathing, giving injections, changing a dressing, taking vital signs, and transfer of patients from bed to chair. These seem minor skills compared to what students learn today. We were at the hospital every day for lecture and clinical. The hospital allowed us to eat lunch. Since we did not have any eating facilities at our dorm, we all ate huge lunches and took food back to the dorm for dinner. In the morning students either skipped breakfast or ate cold cereal and powdered milk like I did with my roommates. I can’t stand powdered milk to this day. The junior year 12-month curriculum covered leadership (being a head nurse), maternity, psych and community health. I was placed at the Greenwich Village office of the NYVNA (the premier visiting nurse service in the country) and other classmates were at Public Health clinics. I loved the experience visiting patients in apartments above night clubs, restaurants or stores. My classmate and I took a 30-minute bus ride from our dorm to the office. One patient whom I visited lived in a coal cellar. He had had TB and I had to administer an injectable medicine to him each week. We had a wonderful experience, wonderful patient stories about living in Greenwich. That summer was exceptionally hot so the faculty gave us salt tablets to take every day. At that time, Skidmore did not have Psych and OB faculty. So, we had OB at Cornell Medical Center with the Cornell nursing students and were taught by their faculty. So, we were three Skidmore students paired with seven Cornell University students and we did three months of OB. We had experiences in labor and delivery, post-partum care and the �nursery. Then we went to Columbia Presbyterian and did the same thing, joining the Columbia Presbyterian students for three months of Psych. One outstanding experience was accessing the babysitting service run by the Cornell Nursing program. You could sign up to babysit any day of the week and we often took care of UN diplomats’ children. It was a wonderful experience and I had several regular customers, one was a famous pastel artist. We all returned to the Skidmore campus for our senior year. We had 30 credits to take to complete our degree. The courses had to be in the liberal arts (social sciences, literature and history). We also had a 3 credit nursing issues course. Most of us were hungry to learn something besides nursing and expand our minds and knowledge. My roommate and I poured over the catalog and we picked out everything we wanted to take, most of which were, literature, art courses and American Studies. We ran into problems with upper division courses that required freshman or sophomore prerequisite courses. We needed upper division courses and didn’t want to take the lower-level courses. In trying to convince faculty that we could handle the upper division courses, we found faculty were very uninformed about the nursing major. For example, great doubt was expressed that we could handle the courses and I was told ‘well, all you have been doing is changing bedpans for two years.’ It was pretty shocking, especially what we perceived as a very pejorative or antiquated view about nursing students. But we persisted and many faculty albeit reluctantly agreed to let us take their courses and we all did fine. I loved every course that I took and surprised myself by loving the course on The Romantic Poets. I still have the books. I would just make one other comment. It was difficult returning to campus after two years in New York City. Becoming nurses changed us from girls into very dedicated women. We missed two years of ordinary campus life and I guess had outgrown putting cottage cheese in faculty mailboxes and fraternity beer parties. We had seen babies delivered, walked the streets of New York City providing nursing services in tenements and coal cellars and stayed with patients who died. We were in New York City, in a dorm and there was really no college life. You know, we dated some of the medical students, but there was no real effort on the part of Skidmore to create links with some of the colleges in New York City so that we could have more of a, more of a college life than we had. EG [0:16:29]: Yeah, well, it’s definitely not your normal college experience but it sounds like, wow, transformative. JA [0:16:39]: Yes, it was transformative. The program was excellent and well prepared us for clinical practice after graduation. Skidmore was very well thought of nationally. We had great faculty. EG [0:17:40]: Well, with that, um, let’s, let’s move a little beyond Skidmore. What was your path after Skidmore? What did you do? JA [0:17:48]: My first position after graduation was on the male medical unit in the Bullfinch �building (birth place of ether) at Mass. General hospital. Because BS educated nurses have less clinical experience than Hospital or Diploma educated nurses, the Skidmore faculty urged us all to work for at least a year in a hospital to become more proficient in technical nursing skills. I loved my first position. Despite jitters about not being a “skilled nurse” (meaning having done specific skills like catheterizations over and over) and some mild hazing by the Mass grads, I felt very competent in my skills at the end of a year. The unit I worked on was housed in one big room, with 16 beds, one private room (for alcohol detox) and a nursing desk in the middle of the room. This set up was so different from today’s units. The patients had little privacy. Also different was that most patients had had heart attacks and were hospitalized for a month. We really got to know our patients and their families. One story: A few weeks into working in the unit, a patient asked me what kind of nurse I was. I was startled and wondered if I had made a mistake. I asked him what he meant, and he stated that I didn’t have a black band on my nursing cap (all Mass General diploma grads and the majority of nurses in the hospital had black bands on their hats). After a year in Boston, I decided to see the country and applied for and was hired by the San Francisco Visiting Nurse Association. My sister and I trained across country and set up living in San Francisco. She was a secretary. Because I didn’t own a car, I was assigned to a walking district in an area called the Tenderloin. It was in downtown San Francisco filled with SROs, bars, and shabby restaurants and stores. The average age of my caseload was 85. They were elderly residents living alone on Social Security or pensions in large buildings of SROS. It was a wonderful experience and I loved San Francisco. After three years at the VNA, I decided I wanted to get a master's degree. So, I applied to UCSF and got a master's in Public Health or Community Health and a post-masters in teaching (believe it or not). I loved the master’s program and found that I liked teaching. In 1969 after completing the post-masters, I joined the undergraduate faculty at UCSF. I was fortunate to be hired on a Division of Nursing Grant with the goal of exploring the effects of teaching health science students together. I taught CH and Leadership in the senior year of the 5-year BSN program and had students in an outpatient clinic for CH and for leadership in many other community agencies. In the clinic, we paired nursing students with medical and pharm students and tasked them to interview patients coming to an Internal Medicine clinic. We also organized all first-year health science students into seminars taught by two faculty from different disciplines. The students were paired and had to go into the community and interview a person or family about their health. The students who had such clinical experiences were more positive about interdisciplinary education and had better knowledge about the other health disciplines. This was from 1969-1973. Today, we are still struggling with interdisciplinary education. In 1975, a PH colleague and I wrote a Division of Nursing grant for 3 million dollars to start a Post RN (admitted RNs, BSNs and MSNs) Adult Nurse Practitioner program, the first in California. This was the early days of the NP movement, which was started in the �late 1960s in Colorado by Loretta Ford (nurse) and Henry Silver (MD). The nurse graduates were called Pediatric Associates. We were funded for 3 years to develop this new program. Due to existing prejudice about NPs thinking they were just Junior Doctors, the UCSF School of Nursing refused to accept the grant. Thus, we were housed in the School of Medicine for 3 years. The grant was successful. In 1975, there were no NP graduates to act as preceptors so we had to use MDs. We found many excited and willing to work with the students. We then wrote another Division of Nursing grant for a MS Adult NP program. It was funded, and by then the School of Nursing decided to accept the grant and house us. Since neither I or my colleague were NPs, we decided to go through our own program and I was certified as an NP in 1978. While a program director, I continued to teach and practice as an NP in the Primary Care Internal Medicine Clinic. I was on the faculty from 1969 until 1982 becoming a Clinical Associate Professor in 1981. I was accepted into the USCF/Berkley doctoral program in Medical Anthropology. It was a joint degree in between Berkeley and San Francisco in Medical Anthropology. I was the only health professional in the program and had no background in anthropology. In a year, I caught up with my much younger classmates. I was 39 when I started the program. I did my NINR-funded dissertation fieldwork in Austin, TX interviewing 40 women about how they manage their weight. I had great cooperation from the women whom I interviewed. I completed the PhD in 5 years and was then hired by the School of Nursing at the University of Texas at Austin as an Assistant Professor. I was able to get NINR funding again to replicate my dissertation with African American and Mexican American women. This funding and numerous peer reviewed publications enabled me to become a tenured Associate Professor in 4 years and Professor in the following 3 years. Once I received tenure, I applied for and received funding to start the first Family Nurse Practitioner (NP) program in Central Texas. The advent of the role of NP changed MS education in nursing forever and NP programs became the number one major in most MS programs. NPs offered the public a skilled practitioner who combined nursing and medical knowledge and skills to care for patients across the lifespan. The public began to learn the value of nurses and their abilities. I must say that becoming a NP changed the course of my career. Developing NP programs led to involvement in national NP organizations. I served as President of the National Organization of Nurse Practitioner Educators (NONPF). My background as a NP and my publications about the role, led to my 6-year appointment (4 years as Vice Chair) on the US Preventive Services Task Force. The Task Force developed population-based recommendations for preventive services across the lifespan. Medicare used the recommendations to develop polices for funding preventive services. To finish talking about my career, in 2007, I was appointed Dean of the University of Texas Health Science School of Nursing. I served as Dean for 5 years and was then recruited to be the Dean of the University of Maryland School of Nursing in 2002. I retired in 2013. During these yeas as Dean at two Schools, I served on the Boards of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing and American Academy. I retired with over 150 peer reviewed publications. �EG [0:25:25]: Wow though, and I noticed that you, you spent a fair amount of time working in the jobs that you had, but you went back to school a number of times as well. Wow! If I may say so, you are incredibly accomplished. Gotcha. Well, let’s see...I also, you said you, ah, graduated in the class of 1960? JA [0:25:32]: Actually, it was class of ’64. I started in 60. EG [0:25:35]: Gotcha, ‘64. So, I don’t know how much this will relate to you but, um, do you have any feelings about the closing of the program in 1985? JA [0:025:40]: It certainly made me feel sad that the College had to discontinue such a long standing and excellent major. However, at the time that this decision was made, there was, believe it or not, a glut of nurses and also a decreasing interest in nursing as a career. I know that the College made such a decision reluctantly but were impacted by a declining enrollment and rising costs to maintain the program in New York City. I think the expansion of opportunities for women to almost any field also had an impact. I don’t know if having to leave a more traditional college campus experience to live in New York City for 2 years was a factor in recruitment of students. I do feel sad that many nursing graduates do not give back to Skidmore because of their anger at the closing of the program. EG [0:27:09]: Wonderful. Well, yeah, you actually got my last question in there which was, kind of, how your education at Skidmore has impacted your life, but it sounds like it changed your life. JA [0:27:19]: Many big decisions like where to go to college, where to live or what job to take often reflect “turning points” in one’s life. Such periods often are inherently risky because often one choice is to stay the same and the other is to take a risk. For me being able to choose Skidmore was a big turning point. Instead of living at home and attending a commuter school near my home, I spent 4 years living in two incredible places, meeting people from all over the country and making friends who grew up in very different circumstances than I did. That first big move away from home, enabled me to consider and decide to have my first post-graduation job in Boston and then to decide that I needed to learn more about the country, thus the move to San Francisco. My education at Skidmore well prepared me for my post-graduation positions in Boston and SF. I think Skidmore provided the background that enabled me to be a risk taker. As I look over my career, there were many other “turning points,” for example, I was offered to be the VC of a department in the SON at UCSF versus developing a NP program. The later choice changed my whole career. EG [0:28:54]: Gotcha, wow, wonderful! Ok, and then, is there any other, any other memories or anything else that you’d want to make sure that it’s saved for posterity? JA [0:31:03]: I loved New York City and had a great time living there for 2 years. One bonus to �being there was that grateful patients left nearly every day Broadway show or Carnegie Hall music tickets at the faculty office. So, my roommates and I were able to see some wonderful shows. In addition, New York City offered amazing and cheap restaurants featuring food from around the world. I certainly enlarged my Scottish meal palate. Of course, the museums were free, and offered a do-it-yourself course in art history. EG [0:32:07]: Yeah, I never would have thought of that! That’s so cool! JA [0:32:10]: I also sent you some material from my program in 1960-64. The program brochure featured me and Rory Pond, ’65 (she also was interviewed). It is a blast from the past as we are in white skirted uniforms and nursing caps. I would have been a junior (1962-63) and Rory was a sophomore. EG [0:32:20]: Oh, that was you? JA [0:32:21]: Yeah, it was me. Did you see that? I'm the taller one. That's me. EG [0:32:24]: Oh, yeah, I’ve seen that! I’ve been working on the exhibit so I’ve been putting [unintelligible] Wonderful! Oh wow, wonderful! I think this has been amazing, it’s really good! JA [0:34:05]: I have had a great, great career and it all began at Skidmore. Thank you for listening to my story. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Janet Allan '64 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Emma Griffin '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 34:27 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Janet Allan, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Janet Allan '64 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 15, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3ab7aabaebe7e5b21ba948a33bd78eac.png b449f1adbf78665e1ba29712e9fa58d0 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fa9ea7a6aff0d419f1d5c078c840b07a.wav c10c119ea0b5fda02eff80ce9f8a0545 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/4ff84dee8e99c720c48f4b99835c8647.pdf c305531d9962f05245011b904418ef4c PDF Text Text Marah_Evan_ALH.wav Marah Frese-Despins [00:00:05] I'm Marah Frese-Despins. Evan Forrest [00:00:08] I'm Evan Forrest. Todd Shapiro [00:00:10] I'm Todd Shapiro. Marah Frese-Despins [00:00:12] The date is April 15th, 2024. Evan Forrest [00:00:16] All right. So we're going to start with a couple questions about your childhood. So let's start with an easy one. Where did you grow up? Todd Shapiro [00:00:25] I grew up in a town called Newington, Connecticut, just outside of Hartford. Evan Forrest [00:00:29] And what was your family like? Todd Shapiro [00:00:32] I am an only child. My father, Norm, was an industrial engineer. And my mother, Barbara, was a, dental hygienist. And I had a great childhood. No complaints. Evan Forrest [00:00:45] Nice. So what was your early education like? Middle school. High school? And did you like school? Todd Shapiro [00:00:53] Yes. Liked school very much. Liked elementary. Middle school. Went to an interesting, I don't know if it was experimental, but it was a middle school that, had, like, a team structure. So it wasn't the traditional, like, you're in one classroom the whole day. It was sort of almost like a college campus kind of thing where you change, I mean, in middle school, we were in sort of, each, each grade was a wing. And you would you would move between classes. And it was sort of cutting edge for the time in the late 70s, early 80s. Evan Forrest [00:01:35] That's interesting. So do you remember your first job? What was that like? Todd Shapiro [00:01:40] My first and only job. I worked at Newington Bicycle for over ten years. I started at 15. State of Connecticut said that 15 year olds could work like a certain amount of limited hours after school. So before I was even 16, I was working in the bike shop. I'm an avid cyclist. I've been racing since I was, I don't know, 12 years old and started at this job as a stock stock boy, you know, stocking shelves, sweeping floors and then eventually worked my way up to be, manager of the store. Evan Forrest [00:02:15] Nice so you're kind of mixing pleasure with work. Todd Shapiro [00:02:17] That's right, that's right. Evan Forrest [00:02:18] Find something you're interested in. Todd Shapiro [00:02:20] Exactly. �Marah Frese-Despins [00:02:23] Do you want to tell us about your time in college? What undergrad school you went to. Graduate? Todd Shapiro [00:02:28] Sure. Undergraduate, I went to University of Vermont. I did not go to Brandeis because that's where my daughter is going in the fall. So, undergraduate was University of Vermont in Burlington. I was a business major with a focus on productions and operations. So that's everything from, like, statistical process control, industrial engineering. So, yes, I was in the business school, but it had a sort of an engineering bend. And while in school, my, Italian teacher mentioned that I wanted to get into, you know, working in a bike shop and being very into, like, bikes and gear and outdoor things. I wanted to work in manufacturing for an outdoor company. And in a conversation with my Italian teacher, my Italian professor, she mentioned that her husband was the CEO of Nordica, which was the ski company. You know, they made, boots and bindings and and she could get me a meeting with him. So I met this, head of Nordica, US in Burlington, Vermont, and I told him, “Hey, I want to work in manufacturing in the gear industry.” And he was like, “you're not going to do that in the United States.” Like, very little is manufactured here. It's all distribution. So everything is made overseas, imported into the U.S.. And then there's these advanced distribution networks that distribute the products, whether it's bikes or skis or mountain climbing, whatever your hobby is. And he's like, you should look into operations and start to understand the distribution and how it works. And that completely changed my trajectory. I went from focusing on like engineering and manufacturing to, you know, business and operations, and that changed my, my whole course, changed classes. I took, and then, even after college, what I, what I ended up doing. Marah Frese-Despins [00:04:31] Did that affect where you chose to go to grad school? Todd Shapiro [00:04:35] I moved to Boston after undergraduate. I worked for the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston. And the Museum of Fine Arts had the largest museum catalog in the world. And what that means is all these museums sell product, right? They have gift shops and they sell products. But the MFA had a catalog. We would mail them. This is in the days of the days of old. You would mail catalogs, paper catalogs. People would read them. They'd find. Something they liked. They write it down on a piece of paper. Fold it up, put it in an envelope and mail it to you. To the catalog center. We had banks and banks of people opening these things. They'd take out your order, they'd enter it. Then it would go to the fulfillment center, and we'd pick, pack and ship and send it out. And that's how I started. It was distribution. So I worked there for about six years. I'm in Boston, and I realize, you know, I want more than just I mean, it was very big operation, but it wasn't like an L.L. Bean or, you know, a massive cataloger, so I decided to go to grad school. I'm in Boston. I mean, you got 62 schools to choose from. So I ended up going to Boston University for an MBA. Evan Forrest [00:05:51] Were you, part of any clubs or any other organizations where your time at UVM or in Boston? Todd Shapiro [00:05:58] Yeah, I was on the rowing team at UVM, so I got to travel all over the country racing. That was a fantastic experience. And I also got into logistics with that. I got trained to drive the trailer, so I would drive an 80-foot long trailer CDL, and, yeah, we would caravan all over the country racing, which was fantastic. And then, I was also in the Outing Club, got trained as a first responder, wilderness first responder. So I would drag people off mountains that were injured or hurt. And, my specialty was winter �camping. I actually love the cold. So. Yeah. So you can see where my love of gear and, and outdoor stuff, came from. Evan Forrest [00:06:46] Vermont's a good place to, to do it at. Yeah. Marah Frese-Despins [00:06:52] Do you think any of those experiences helped prepare you for your roles in management? Todd Shapiro [00:06:56] Absolutely. No question. Rowing. You're, you know, one cog in a, in a massive machine. So you've got to, you got to work to get. I mean, it's all the classic, clichés. You got to work together. You've got, you know, you're only as fast as the weakest link. And there's a tremendous amount of finesse and technique in the sport of rowing. There's, there's, you're so reliant on your equipment, right? So it's not just your fitness and your, strategy, but it's, you know, does your equipment work? Is it, you know, is, is the, the machine that you're moving gonna operate efficiently? Is your technique good? Right? Or is, are your oars going to go too deep or are you not, are you going to catch a crab and slow the whole boat down? So, I mean, you can start to see how that translates to a team you're working with, right? If you're on a production line, if you're working on a conveyor belt and you got multiple people and moving parts, you have to coordinate all that. And then in the Outing Club, you know, learning to be a wilderness first responder was just tremendous. I mean, you learn how to not only help people but lead, right? How do you motivate? And, you know, if you're on a hike and someone is injured, I mean, you got to get them out of the woods. So you have to encourage and motivate and, and think creatively of how you're gonna, you know, get this group of people with someone that's wounded out safely. So yeah, it absolutely applies to day-to-day work. Evan Forrest [00:08:35] Team player. Todd Shapiro [00:08:36] There you go. Evan Forrest [00:08:37] Yeah. So you mentioned starting off after college in kind of a smaller, less, I don't know, multinational kind of job. Was it your goal to kind of transition into a larger company with larger duties or. Todd Shapiro [00:08:56] No, there was never a goal. Like, I never was, like, I want to work in a catalog. I mean, when I was looking for a job after school, I mean, you went to the newspaper, you literally opened the newspaper. You looked at the classifieds and you would circle ads that sounded interesting, and you would write a cover letter in an envelope. Snail mail, send it. I sent out hundreds of, of letters, and the one that came back said, “Hey, we'd love to interview you” was the Museum of Fine Arts, and it was a distribution center for product. And I was like, this is fantastic. So yeah, there was no goal of like, oh, I want to, I want to work in a catalog center or I want to do this. So that first step, like each step, whether you're in school or you're playing a sport or you're in a club, right? These are all things that kind of build your, your background and your experiences. And they can each send you down a different path. So once I started working at the Museum of Fine Arts, I was involved in a very large catalog center, and I was like, this is pretty cool. Maybe I want to, you know, see where this could take me. So I worked there for many years. And then it started to feel small. I mean, it's 100,000ft², which is a very big building. There were, I don't know, 5 to 10,000 SKUs which are stock keeping units. So when you go into a store like Target, you know, there's probably 100,000 to 200,000 SKUs in that store. Everything from a pen to a razor to a toothbrush that's each got a unique identifier. So we had about 5000 SKUs at the MFA. And when I started as a recent college �graduate, I was like, this is unbelievable. How am I ever going to keep track of this? Well, by the end of a few years, I was like, this place feels small. I know where everything is. I know how the place runs. So I'm like, what's next? What's next? So that's, that's what got me thinking. And then I started to look for the next, the next big thing. And I, and I just kind of progressed. I went from there. I went to Aramark, which was a very large distribution center, and we did uniforms for every major company. UPS drivers, FedEx drivers, CocaCola drivers, all, you know, every driver needs a shirt, pants, jacket, belt, shoes, socks, hat, company hat with their logo. We did the embroidery. We would do about 60,000 shipments a day. The MFA was 3 to 5 thousand a day. Aramark was about 30,000 to 60,000 a day. And so, yeah, I started, you know, I wanted bigger, bigger. You know, it was it wasn't, “I want to go to a multinational. I want to go to something big.” I just I wanted the next challenge because you start to get stagnant. You start to get comfortable, and you're like, you know, I gotta. I want to grow. I want to grow. I want to do more. Evan Forrest [00:11:55] What did your day to day look like? I know you said your you're shipping off in this specific example uniforms, but what does that mean. So you go into work and you're just boxing up uniforms and selling them out? Like I can't visualize it right now. Todd Shapiro [00:12:08] Sure, sure. So the way I like to describe it is, if you order something online. So I don't know if you guys ever ordered from L.L.Bean or, let's use L.L.Bean. That's the best example in the world. So you you go online and you order a pair of the famous L.L.Bean boots, right? You and 100,000 other people are all ordering this stuff. So in the morning, when a worker in a distribution center shows up, you have to, like, start the system up. Right? And so you print the orders and it's called induction. And you induct this work into the system. So there's stacks and stacks of orders. That are the picklist. So when you are at home and you go, oh, I ordered these boots, and you open up your box and there's a sheet in there and it says, you know, size ten duck boots. And if you look closely, there's probably a little code it could say like, you know, PX-24. Well, that's a location. It's all done with coordinates. You know, these buildings are like 1,000,000ft². That could have a couple hundred thousand locations. It's essentially shelves. It's like the library. You've got shelves with books on them. But imagine you're like, okay, there's a section of all of shoes. There's a section of all the shirts, is a section of all the tents or whatever that these retailers sell. So you will literally grab a stack of orders that are printed in by walk pattern. So there's a tremendous amount of math and like choreography because you have to say, “Okay, Evan, we're going to give you this stack of orders.” You don't want to walk to the back of the building and grab, you know, a hat, and then you got to walk all the way up and grab some shoes and then go over it. Now, you want it efficient so you're assigned a section. You're like, okay, you're going to be in, you know, section P out of, you know, 100 rows or 100 aisles. And each sheet that you take is guiding you on a walk pattern, an efficient walk pattern. And so you'll go and just say, okay, there's a size ten shoes. Maybe for that day you're assigned to the shoe area. So all you’re picking is shoes. Then your racks are profiled. So yes, you're in the correct aisle. But the companies do analysis and they forecast what is going to sell the best. And it's loaded on the shelves in the most ergonomic position. So right here your top selling item is going to be in a very easy to reach place. The thing you sell like two of a year. That's going to be up high because you got to get a ladder to get it. So you're not going to make those picks very frequently. And then what you do is you do reprofiling. So after a couple of weeks of fulfilling, because these websites are, you know, they have the new spring lineup. So you reprofile your racks, you load them from the back with this spring's offering in very efficient locations. Then let's say spring is done and now it's the fall. And it's a whole different thing. Now coats are popular or whatever, you know, outcome the bathing �suits are off the shelf. And now the hooded, you know, sweatshirts are in that key location. So you're constantly reprofiling and readjusting so that you can have efficient pick runs. And you can, you can, you can get this stuff processed quickly. So you, you pick it all, you put it in containers and they're on an automated conveyor belt. That conveyor belt will take it around the building. Then it's got to go to a packing station. So now okay, you pick the shoes, you threw them in a box, they go down the conveyor. Then there's a station that might have to put some what's called dunnage or void fill, like bubble wrap or some crumbled up paper to kind of brace it. Maybe that person request some gift wrap, or maybe they requested a gift message, or maybe there's a second pick. So you put the boots in the box. The box heads down the conveyor belt to your area and you're picking, you know, I don't know, first aid kits, right. You know, L.L. Bean sells everything. So you're like, okay, “they bought boots. I'm going to put the first aid kit, I'm going to put some sunscreen in there.” And then it goes down the conveyor to the next area, to the final station that seals it, puts a label on it, overhead scanner reads it and routes it to one of 50, 60 tractor trailers that are there. So there's some going to the West Coast, there's some going to the Midwest, there's some going East Coast, South, Southwest, and then they route them and they drive them deeper into the mail stream to a USPS or UPS distribution center. So your morning literally starts with, “what am I picking?” Like that's how the whole process starts. Johnny Jones placed an order online, and that order becomes like a pick ticket of what you've got to put in the box. I mean, people don't realize this. They're online. They have no idea what entering that order does and like what that sets into motion to do. Evan Forrest [00:17:24] It's interesting hearing the other side, logistically, because the consumer just sees the computer screen and orders that, and then there's just so much more that goes on to it. Todd Shapiro [00:17:34] Oh yeah. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Marah Frese-Despins [00:17:37] What was the working environment like? There was, was it, were people happy working there? Were you receiving good benefits? That kind of thing. Todd Shapiro [00:17:43] Thing? Well, I'll start with the MFA and then I'll go to Target. So when I was at the MFA, it was a small catalog operation. We probably had 25 to 50 people in the distribution center. And it was sort of a feeling of like, you're working for a good cause, like you're supporting a museum and the artwork. And what we sold was supporting the artwork, right? You would sell prints of Monet or whatever, and the pay was alright, and the environment was not crushing, meaning you didn't have production standards. You know, it was look if, if somebody ordered some note cards or a vase, right? You know, you're not shipping body parts, you're not shipping medical supplies. So, you know, it wasn't like this huge sense of urgency. I also worked at Target. And Target is another world that is backbreaking. There are production standards. The pay is not great. Benefits are okay. And Target distribution centers ship 100,000 packages per shift. So you could be doing 100,000 to 300,000 or more packages a day in the yard where the tractor trailers are, there's 4 million cartons that have to be backed up to the doors and unloaded. And when I got to Target, I thought I made the show. I thought I was in the major leagues. That's what brought me to this area. I was recruited by Target and I was living in Boston, and they said, we're opening a new distribution center in Amsterdam. And I thought Target was going to the Netherlands. And then I learned that it's, depressed factory town west of Saratoga, where all this industry went out of business in the 1960s, and 30 to 50 thousand people lost their jobs. However, it's right on Interstate 90. So big distribution centers, 2,000,000ft² can get their goods and trucks right on the highway. So I was recruited to �open a distribution center that would serve 80 Target stores, came up here and moved up here with my family, started at the Amsterdam facility. And that's when the fun ended. It was soul crushing. And this is why your professor probably asked me to come here. So there's production standards you have to produce. Now I'm in this situation. I'm a manager. I have a team of people who are pick packing, just as I described, like at the MFA or at Aramark. But every quarter you have to pick a certain amount per hour. So let's just say, you've got to do 35 picks an hour this quarter. Every move you make. You are scanning everything. You scan the shelf, you're going to pick some boots, right? Just like in our other example, you scan the shelf, you scan the product, and it'll, it'll be, it'll, it'll give you a confirmation like that's the right thing. If it, if it gives you an error message, it's like, “hey, you just scanned, you know, a bottle of tide detergent, and you're supposed to be picking boots.” So you can see how it starts to take the humanness out of it. It's all like, it's all fed to you. So you have to pick 35 an hour. You got to hustle next quarter, the new production standards. You got to do 40 an hour. You gotta do like 20% more. So that works when you're doing like toothbrushes and boots. But what happens when it's grill season and you got to move a gas grill barbecue? It is. I would literally be going up to people. I'm like, “hey Tony, you know, it's you got to do 40, 40 an hour.” And he's like, “I couldn't even do 30. How am I going to do this?” He's like, “it's grill season.” These things weigh 150 pounds. So, you know, you have to also think of the type of product like someone could be stationed in, like the dental area where it's toothbrushes and toothpaste. Easy. But somebody that's over in grills or tool chests or bunk beds, I mean, you know, think about it like Ikea. I mean, that stuff is just killer. And it was just it, it killed me to press my staff to hit these production numbers. And if they didn't do it, I'd have to write them up. So I'd have to say, “you know, Marah. Hey, you know, this week, you know, you've only been doing 26 an hour, and you've got to get to 35 an hour.” And you'd say, okay, we're going to give it, you know, the rest of this week, I need to see some improvement. And off you go. And you do it. Now, what happens if you're rushing and you damage product? What if you're using a forklift and you take down the pallet of goods to pick and you dump it and you just dumped, you know, however many grills or whatever, and they're damaged. Now that comes off of a your, off your, you know, productivity report. And I would just watch us break people, literally break people. And then we would track their whereabouts during the day. So you'd say, okay, “you did. You did 26 an hour. You have to do 35. But I've noticed, you know, every day around 11, you're missing for 12 minutes” and you're like, “oh, I, you know, I had to go to the bathroom” and it's like, well, we've tracked this and it should take, you know, an average person about 3 to 4 minutes to go to the bathroom. You know what I mean? It's this unbelievable, like the conversations you have to have with people. And the only thing I can think of is if you want to walk into a Target or a Walmart or Amazon and you want to spend $4 for, for a shirt or a product like you, you know, the American consumer says, “I want this for five bucks.” Well, where are you going to get that margin? You're going to squeeze it out of your staff, right? You're going to get more efficient. You're going to get faster. You're going to hire less people. You're going to automate. And that was the only thing I could reason with myself to be like, “this is why we're pushing people.” But I eventually left. I could not stand it. I could not stand seeing what we did to people and how we broke them. And I mean, can you imagine having a conversation with someone about how long they spent in the bathroom? Marah Frese-Despins [00:24:21] It'd be horrible. Todd Shapiro [00:24:22] It's horrible. It's horrible. And, you know, here at the time, I have a master's degree, and I'm like, I'm walking around this thing just, like beating people over the head. Yeah, it was terrible. It was terrible. And, yeah, I left. �Evan Forrest [00:24:38] Were you, I assume, perceived as the bad guy or was it like a don't shoot the messenger type thing? Like did they understand that you were just the manager, and... Todd Shapiro [00:24:48] I mean, it's very interesting. Target and Walmart and all these places tend to hire in these roles people that are fresh out of college, fresh out of the military, where they can be molded. Right. I had already been in the in the workforce for 12 or 15 years, kind of running facilities and learning how to manage people. So I developed a very good relationship with my staff, and they realized, “hey, Todd's just doing his job and we get it.” But a lot of the new people that did not have real world experience just drank the Kool-Aid, delivered these terrible messages, and were perceived as the bad guy. They were like, “wow, this this kid's rotten. Like, this is awful.” You know, I had a little more empathy for these people. Like, these people had families, these people, you know, this was a good job for these people in this area. And, yeah, it was, it was tough. It was tough. Evan Forrest [00:25:54] And I assume that there's just managers that were just like you. All over the country as well. Todd Shapiro [00:26:01] There were 26 distribution centers. Target runs 26 distribution centers. Each distribution center employs a thousand people. So there's 26,000 employees just in product distribution. And the facility is run with about 30 managers. So I was in charge of warehousing and distribution. Somebody might be in charge of inbound freight. Somebody might be in charge of outbound freight. Somebody might be in charge of like high value. So about 30 managers in the building runs 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. I worked Thanksgiving. I worked Christmas, I worked, you name the holiday I have worked it, and I would do 80 hours a week. And it was, yeah, it was, It was soul crushing. It was awful. Awful. Evan Forrest [00:26:48] Were there ever talks with your employees about unionizing or things to increase their happiness? Todd Shapiro [00:26:57] I was trained, Target trained all of us in union busting. So here these people would start to organize, and we were trained as management on how to dissuade them and sort of scuttle it. You know, you couldn't say the word union, but there were techniques and phrases that we were trained to use to sort, you know, change the topic, change the, the thing. And Target was very successful. Very, very successful in, in squashing and, you know, union votes and that kind of thing. I mean, it was, it was eye opening, eye opening for me and it, yeah, yeah. It's, and Target is one of the more progressive companies. I mean, if you look at Walmart or Amazon, I mean, these places are brutal. Brutal. Marah Frese-Despins [00:27:56] How did working at Target and having those tough experiences, affect, like, your family life and personal life? Todd Shapiro [00:28:04] It was extremely difficult. My wife and I were newly married, and I was working 80 hours a week. I never saw her. And to this day, we refer to that as the Dark Ages. Target sold me on, they said you're going to work four days on, three days off. You'll work four, ten-hour days, and then you'll get three days off. I was like, “this is unbelievable.” They said, “you'll start at like seven. You'll get out at three.” And that's awesome. That never happened. I worked, pretty much every day I would start, I would get up at 3:30 in the morning to be at the facility at 5 a.m. to do production control. So that description of the pick tickets and everything, you have to sort of orchestrate the printing �and the dissemination of all of that. So you have to kind of figure out your pick runs and things. It's called production control. So, in a facility like a Target, because they have Sunday fliers or they have TV ads, that product has to get to the front of the line so it can get in the stores. Right. Like, imagine they do a big ad campaign and the distribution center forgets to, like, send something. So I was getting up at 3:30 in the morning to drive to Amsterdam, 45 minutes, to do production control at 5 a.m., and I'd work 12 hours. I'd be home at 5 or 6 and I would just, I was a zombie, I would collapse. And then, my wife was pregnant with our daughter, and my daughter, Zoe, was born. And I remember taking off two weeks from work. It took, like, an act of Congress for me to get time off. And I remember holding her. She's an infant, and I'm like, I am leaving this job. I'm never going to see her. Because you work all day getting up at 3:00 in the morning. You can't do anything when you get home. You know, you can't see your family. You can't. You don't even have energy to make dinner. So it was just get up, work, come home, collapse, do it again, do it again. And then having these horrible experiences at work, you would bring all that home. So the conversation was just like, this is, this is ridiculous. So yeah, it really affected, you know, and at least in my experience at Target, extremely high divorce rate, extremely high depression rates in management. I mean, these people are just, everyone is broken. Yeah. Evan Forrest [00:30:39] You mentioned a little bit the comparison between MFA, and Target and that there were production... what did you call it, production... Todd Shapiro [00:30:50] Production control or production standards. Evan Forrest [00:30:54] Standards. Is that what, that's what made the difference between Target and MFA, why Target was so much more soul crushing than MFA? Todd Shapiro [00:31:01] Yeah. Yeah. MFA was more of a familial or, I guess you could call it kind of a family atmosphere because the volumes were lower. It wasn't a Fortune 500 retailer, you know, it's this little museum in Boston. It's a big museum, but there wasthe pressure was not there. You know, there weren't shareholders. There wasn't, you know, there weren't Sunday fliers. There weren't, you know, because we were a cataloger. That's the other thing is you sort of launch these catalogs into the mail or nowadays on the internet, and you just pack your warehouses with the product for that season. So you're kind of like, all right, we're good. We got everything in the shelves are loaded. Let's just fill the orders. But at a Target, it is like 24 hours a day inbound and outbound. And so it's like, it's like sweeping the ocean. It's just, you are never going to catch up. And they know that. And that's on purpose. And it's just to keep you under the, under the thumb and you can never catch up. So you're always like going, going, going, going, going. And that also does not allow you time to think and unionize because you are so slammed. It's, I really feel, it's very strategic in how they build and designed and, and kind of feed these places, so, you know. Marah Frese-Despins [00:32:41] Where did you move next? Like, how did it get better? Todd Shapiro [00:32:45] Great question. So, I was hating Target, and, my wife was on Craigslist. That shows how long ago it was, 20 years ago. So I come home one day and she's like, “hey, I saw this ad in Craigslist. There's a little software company in Saratoga, started at the RPI incubator, and they're looking for people that have retail supply chain experience.” I was like, “huh?” So in all of my jobs, from the MFA, actually going back to the bike shop, to Target, I was always very involved in systems. You cannot run a facility of this magnitude without software and systems to, to manage it and track it. And I mean, it �is, it's mind boggling how much. So when I was at Target, they were installing $80 million worth of equipment and software to take the people out of unloading trucks. And so I started to become a super user. Right. You know, think of any jobs you've had or, you know, whether you're working at a grocery store or you're working at a bike shop or whatever, like there's, there's always a system, right? And you've got to get good at using that system. So in all of my jobs, I tried to become a subject matter expert to like, understand, I would train others and I would learn how they work. So my wife found this thing. She's like, yeah, “this little software company started in some kids dorm room. They built multi-channel retail software.” And so what it is, is it I mean, today you could laugh at it, but 20 years ago it was, “hey, we can run your inventory for your website, for eBay, for Amazon, for take your pick of a couple others.” But it's centralized inventory and it's all done online because years ago you'd have a website, you'd have a brick and mortar store, you'd have everything. Each one of those held the inventory differently. So if you sell hats, maybe you have ten in stock. Well, what if there was a run on them and the store sold them all? The website still thinks there's ten, eBay still thinks there's ten, Amazon still thinks there's ten. But the store sold them all. What these kids did is they centralized it in one single database and did it online, which people weren't doing at that time, so that the store, the website, eBay, whatever your channels were, they could draw on one central inventory master so that if you ran out of stock, it would automatically take it down from the other sites. Conversely, what if a shipment of more hats came in - automatically push them up. So I went to this interview and I had no idea what to expect, and I met with this software team over on High Rock near the farmers market, and they explained that they have built a multi-channel retail system, but they don't know retail. And, you know, do I know how retail works in the backend? And I was like, “wow, this is a match made in heaven.” And so I ended up working for them for three years. It's called Core Sense. They're down on High Rock still. And I learned how to implement software, and I brought my retail expertise. So I became sort of a product manager slash consultant. I helped them build out the system, improve it so the real world could use it. What they built in their dorm room was good, but it wasn't ready for prime time. And then we started to install it. And so I would go to a client site. I could speak the language of retail, at least backend retail, like how do you fill and operate? And I would consult, I would gather requirements. And then these guys taught me about software, I taught them retail, they taught me software, and we went and installed systems all over for this, this new multi-channel retail system. And that's what got me into software. So I've been doing software for 20 years now. Evan Forrest [00:36:52] That's awesome how you could use your, all of your experience to kind of transform yourself into a different role. Todd Shapiro [00:36:58] Yep, yep. Evan Forrest [00:37:01] So going back to kind of, management, we talked about a couple of the bad effects and some of the more unpleasurable experiences. Do you have any, rewarding parts of working in management and having a team that you kind of work with closely? Todd Shapiro [00:37:23] Oh, yeah. When you can manage and create a well-run machine of people, there's no better experience. It's fantastic. Like where I am now. I mean, I consider this group I work with, I've been there for ten years, like close friends, which is extremely rare in the working world. We are such a tight unit. We know each other's roles so well that you almost don't have to talk sometimes. And you can figure things out, get through problems. Solving work problems efficiently and with, with a great team is just an extremely rewarding experience. Yeah. Not having drama like, when you guys get into the �work world, you'll realize, like, there's politics and there's backstabbing, you know, all that, all the stuff you read about. But when you can find yourself working with a team that supports each other, has each other's back, is challenging work, rewarding work. There is no better experience than that. And it's, it's rare, you know, you may only find it once or twice in your career. But when you do, you know, you realize how special it is and how much, dare I say, fun, it can be to, you know, work on this stuff. Evan Forrest [00:38:47] So in an ideal world, if you're working at Target, how could you make that environment better? Todd Shapiro [00:38:57] You can't, you can't, you can't. The machine is too big. At one point, I thought I could, I was like, “oh, I can bring my experience from the working world to Target.” And, you know, I was, I was squashed essentially, like upper, upper, upper management, you know. You know, they're, they're controlling the managers too. Like, it's not just me as a manager controlling the front-line staff, but the executive team is putting the kibosh on the managers because they dangle the carrot for us. So they say, “okay, there's 26 distribution centers. Let's say there's 30 managers. You know, it's like 500, 600 people. We've only got ten slots at corporate in Minneapolis.” These are coveted, coveted roles to run a department in Minneapolis. And they're like, “okay, we're going to, we're, you're all competing with each other.” So no longer are you this unified team to like, improve the distribution center and make it better. It's like, “oh, my coworker, now I'm competing with you because there's only ten slots. There's 500 of us. There's only ten slots. I got to show my stuff, and I got to step on anybody I can to get that.” You know, it's not we rise or fall together. That's how it is with a good team. But in Target, it's step on your coworker to get, to get your opportunity. And, yeah, it's no way you cannot change it, it is too big. There's too much money involved. And, yeah, it's, it's, it's not for me. It's not for me. Some people might like it, but, yeah, you can't change it. Evan Forrest [00:40:50] It almost sounds like there's just so many levels. And then at the bottom, all the levels are kind of just weighing down and creates kind of that toxic work environment where you really just can't be successful or happy. Todd Shapiro [00:41:06] No, no, you can't, you can't. And everyone. So I had like a cohort when I started at Target, and 16 of us had previous real-world experience in that field. The other half were fresh out of military, fresh out of college, and all 16 of us left within three years because we knew life is much better on the outside. And since many of those that stayed have also left and, yeah, it's, yeah. But you know, when you read about Amazon or you read about Walmart, I mean, the stories are true. It's really like, to give you an idea, when we opened the facility, we needed to open with a thousand workers, the building's 2,000,000ft². You need a thousand workers to run it 24 hours a day, 365. Guess how many people we interviewed for those slots? Marah Frese-Despins [00:42:09] Like 5,000, I don't know. Todd Shapiro [00:42:12] Close. Evan Forrest [00:42:13] Well, I was going to say way less. Todd Shapiro [00:42:15] Okay. 8,000. We interviewed 8,000 people. So we opened the back of the building. It was like an airplane hangar, and we would assign people a slot 24 hours a day. We flew in Target. People from all over the country put them up, and we had teams of two and long lanes of, of interviews. And so you'd have a table with two people. �One person would ask questions, the other would notate. Then you'd switch off. 8,000 people and we only hired 700. We didn't even hit the thousand. So what does that tell you? Yeah, you can have a crushing work environment. That guy falls down. You can't hit the production standards. There's 8,000 more willing to come in right behind them. And, uh yeah, it's just it's just an ocean of people. People need jobs, and it's like we'll just churn and burn. And. Yeah, it's awful. It's awful. Evan Forrest [00:43:20] How did those teams of two, like, adequately, evaluate a candidate when there's so many different teams? Todd Shapiro [00:43:31] You have a set list of questions. Again, it's highly organized and choreographed. You have a set list of questions, and, you know, they're leading questions like, you know, if you're, if you're a good worker and you're, you know, trustworthy and all of this, you know, you can sorta tell by the answers. That's why it's two people. Because while you're asking, the other person is taking notes, but they are watching for, like, a tell. You know, could they be lying? Could they, did they get the dates wrong? Like, did they mess up, you know, and then you're like, “okay, this is a, this is a made up resume.” And yeah, it, it's got to be in teams because you're going to miss something like, you know, I could be reading the sheet asking the question, and he's like, you know, they're spacing out, doing something else, or, and then it's all noted. It's stapled in a box and then the next one, and then you got to process 8,000 applications and answers. So there's two boxes. There's like, you know, call them back for a second. Don't call ‘em. So you're sort of making a split-second decision on that. But you can tell I mean, you know, a lot of times it's, it's very apparent. But if you're, if you're not sure, if you're like, hey, maybe, call back for a second, let another team evaluate it and, and do it. Evan Forrest [00:44:56] Sounds like you've gotten pretty good at reading people throughout your years. Todd Shapiro [00:44:59] Yes, yes. Yeah. When you're managing people in, in, in a very physical environment, you really get, you learn people, you can read them. You know if they're having a bad day. You know if they're having a good day. You know what motivates them. You know what de-motivates them. Yeah. It's, it's the only way to survive and get better is to really learn how to work with people. Which is why in this new world of ours, you know, everything is remote. And, I mean, I work in a remote world now. I mean, I implement software at some of the largest retailers in the world, and we do it with teams all over the world, and we've never met in person. I mean, it's just, it's unbelievable. And I feel that somebody knew, like, for example, the two of you, once you graduate, if you were to go to a software development firm, you gotta go to an office. Like, how on earth are you going to learn or whatever your field is. If you're at home staring at a monitor like you need mentoring and you need like, interaction. I mean, I really feel for, for younger people that are starting jobs, like, during Covid or soon after. It is hard. Like you've got to do it in person, learn how to work, learn how to interact with people, and then when you become more senior in your positions, then go remote. But to start off that way is, that's crazy. Marah Frese-Despins [00:46:28] Overall, are you happy to have had that experience at Target, even if it wasn't always great or happy to bring those experiences in the future? Todd Shapiro [00:46:36] Yeah, it's, it's I'm definitely glad I went through it. And look, having that logo on your resume, that opens doors, there's no question. I mean, I could have been a janitor, but people see the red thing on my resume and they're like, oh, you worked at Target. And it's like, yeah. And it's unbelievable how that alone can open doors �and, and change the conversation. And I'm glad I went through it. I mean, I, I would have always wondered, right, like, what is it like on the inside because you think, wow, this is a big, amazing company, you know, everybody loves going into a Target. But had I not done it, I always would have wondered, and I'm very glad I did. Evan Forrest [00:47:20] So going back into time, if you could go back, would you change anything about the way you approached college? Your field of study, knowing what you know now? Or if you could give advice, what would you what would you say? I know you gave the advice of going to an office and getting that human relation, and, but, would you go back and change anything about the way you approached it? Todd Shapiro [00:47:46] No, I, I thought I had a fantastic undergrad experience. I'm super happy I studied business, and I didn't, you know, I didn't go, like, the finance track. I didn't go, you know, the accounting, you know, the classic business stuff. You know, I stuck to what I enjoyed which was operations. And I'm super glad I did. But I will say you can always change. And a quick story. So in the 1990s, right. That's when startups and the internet and all of this was starting to take off. And here I am, an operations guy. Right. Physical product, kind of like a factory. And I remember, starting graduate school, going into the career office, like my first week and saying, hey, “I want to get into IT.” And they laughed at me. They laughed at me. Can you believe that? The career office at BU was like, “what is your background? No! You can't. You're ,you're in like, operations. Yeah. You can't.” And I was just like, “oh my God, I have to get into IT.” And so I graduated in 2002. So 20-something years later, I am so deep in IT, it's not even funny. So I would say, don't ever think you can't change or maneuver. You just got to kind of take stock of what you've been working on and say, “oh wow, what I'm doing now, could I apply this to the area of interest that I've got?” And, and you can do it just because I'm like, “wow, we use systems every day in product distribution. So why couldn't I be on the other side of that?” So whatever your interest is or whatever, there is always a way to figure out how to, how to get to what you want to do. And don't let anybody tell you, you know or laugh at you that you know, you can't make that change. So. Yeah. Evan Forrest [00:49:55] What does the future look like for you in your work environment? Do you just continue to do the same thing or... Todd Shapiro [00:50:02] Good question. That's a good question. I work in a very stressful environment, now, if you must know. Big websites, very big budgets, and very tight deadlines. Our projects run from a year to 18 months to spin up a, you know, a big website. We can have anywhere from 20 to 50 people working on it, developing it, integrating it. I enjoy the work. I enjoy my team. But. Yeah, I'm curious what's next? It's like, okay, you know, am I just going to keep building these things? And, yeah, I almost want to go smaller again. I almost want to get back to that, like MFA bike shop kind of thing. Like more entrepreneurial, you know. It doesn't always have to be big and fast and, multinational, multi-bazillion dollars, you know. It's like maybe do something a little smaller that, you know, a little slower pace where you can have more creativity. Because when you implement these big things, whether you're at Target or you're implementing a website for a major, major retailer, like, you have to fit their standards, right. You know, there's, there's margins. It's nice when you can put your own creativity and spin on something. So if you're doing your own thing, if it's entrepreneurial or it's a smaller company, you can wear a lot of hats and you can try different things and you can make suggestions and get creative. Right. And that, that is where I think it's going for me, is trying to get back to that entrepreneurial, a little more creativity, not pedal to the metal all day long, every day. �Marah Frese-Despins [00:51:47] I think we're about done. Unless you have any more questions, Evan? If there's anything you want to add. Evan Forrest [00:51:54] Not for me. Todd Shapiro [00:51:55] Okay. That was. Evan Forrest [00:51:56] Great. Marah Frese-Despins [00:51:58] See? Other. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Saratoga Labor History Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource August 11, 2023 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Eric Morser Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Eric Morser Subject The topic of the resource Labor History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Oral History Date Created Date of creation of the resource. August 11, 2023 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Evan Forrest, Marah Frese-Despins Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Todd Shapiro Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 51:49 Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit September 22nd, 2025 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Todd Shapiro Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 15th, 2024 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Labor History Digital Archive Description An account of the resource Todd Shapiro brings 30 years of experience in the retail supply chain, blending expertise in both e-commerce systems and retail distribution operations. Currently serving as the Sr. Director of PMO at DMI, he leads the Program Management Office overseeing large-scale e-commerce platform implementations. Todd and his team work closely with some of the world's largest retailers to build and enhance their online storefronts, integrating new features and driving operational improvements. Prior to his current role, Todd spent over a decade managing retail distribution centers for major companies such as Target, Aramark, and the Museum of Fine Arts Boston, refining his skills in logistics, supply chain optimization, and operations management. His extensive career allows him to seamlessly bridge the gap between traditional retail logistics and the growing demands of digital commerce. Todd holds a BSBA from the University of Vermont and an MBA from Boston University. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Eric Morser Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/034917791b0cc79ea4d81fc4785beead.jpg 1984d206379b318c2357509c28edcc10 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e91f90d5c7b1ce8036440bd286bd8b4a.mp3 cd65fd9b2fdd67078e6cc970a4ab0fc6 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f88f1a8bf1f29c9298484ad7f9b96adc.pdf 64e6c1ee6cb066ac73f1e44618c7bd55 PDF Text Text Interviewee: Karl Broekhuizen Years at Skidmore: 1981 - 2005 Interviewer: Lynn Gelber Location of Interview: Saratoga Springs, NY Date of Interview: April 18, 2019 00:00:00 HEADER 00:00:27 Born and raised in Holley, New York; 52 people in high school graduating class. 00:00:54 Undergraduate - University of New Hampshire; MBA - University of Massachusetts. 00:01:17 As undergrad, worked in UNH controllers office in a junior accountant position. 00:01:37 Interest in working with new automated information and data processing plus management of not-for-profits, particularly colleges and universities. 00:02:50 Upon completing MBA, hired for a new position at U Mass supporting the graduate school in budget development and administration. 00:03:51 “The graduate school at U Mass at that time … mirrored … what a small college and university would be.” 00:04:26 Between 1967-1977, worked as Business Manager for U Mass Graduate School, U Mass Associate Budget Director, and Assistant Dean of Education (chief business person). 00:05:53 Next 5 years as Treasurer at Colby College, then to Skidmore. 00:06:42 On campus interview with, “… a group of thousands.” 00:09:03 One appeal of Skidmore: “…relative to the competition, Skidmore was a very young institution … opportunity for someone with a different perspective…” 00:09:58 Upon arriving September 1981, ”… annual audit had not been yet completed.” 00:12:11 Initial tasks included “…get to know the place and do some staffing.” 00:13:25 Also upon arriving, plans for a sports center were two-thirds done. 00:14:28 In 1981 the college was used to being under-resourced. 00:15:10 “Skidmore became what it was, and what it is today … because they were all invested in … the vision of this institution…” 00:16:15 “One of the things that we were able to do early on is … try to move our construction program up a notch or two in terms of quality, design, location.” 00:17:10 challenge of “…limestone ledge not very far below the surface. And most, if not all, of the early buildings are three feet higher in the air because it was less expensive to go up than to blast and go down.” 00:17:40 Range of building projects included a residence hall, Harder Hall, Starbuck Center and Barrett conversion into offices, Tisch learning center, the Tang, the Northwoods apartments, the Zankel, and additions to the library and the Case Center. 00:19:19 Changes were “a function of … recognizing a change in how curriculum was developed and delivered.” Also, “tremendous growth in terms of the number of employees.” 00:21:07 Worked with Joe Palamountain, David Porter, Jamienne Studley, Phil Glotzbach. 00:21:34 “Joe, in my opinion, saved this college … saw what needed to be done in terms of bringing this campus in this location to a meaningful presence, and I think he surrounded himself with … a great team, and was able to move forward.” 00:24:36 “[Joe] described … his leadership style as sort of a team approach or what he called a matrix management style … the president’s staff … met weekly around a table and discussed whatever the important issue was in each of our divisions, and decisions were made collectively.” �00:25:45 “…he would recommend to the board the hiring or appointment of the chief academic officer or the chief business officer or whatever, but the appointment was by the board. Deans were not. They reported to board appointed officers, and that worked well, I think, for the times.” 00:26:39 “…one instance … I needed fifty thousand dollars more than the preliminary budget figures … We all talked about it in the room and Dave Long, VP for external affairs, said, ‘I can help you with that. I’ll give you fifty thousand dollars out of my budget.’ No great hassle, no … infighting, we were part of a team.” 00:28:05 David Porter’s priorities were faculty and academic programming. “We would still have president’s staff meetings. He, pretty much, continued with the matrix style of operation…” 00:28:58 Phyllis was interim president during construction on the Tang. “I remember very clearly Phyllis being on the top of an excavator with one of the construction team’s people, coming around a grove of trees, in a hard hat…” 00:29:35 "Jamie was very different … it was much more one-on-one … more decisions got made in her office than in the conference room … different styles, and different times, as well.” 00:32:29 Phil “…was interested in knowing, housing-wise … of some of the things that we were doing in terms of bond issues, for instance, and things of that nature.” 00:33:19 Through his years at Skidmore, Broekhuizen appreciated the eclectic nature of Business Affairs. “I mean, we had dining services and post office and bookstores and computing centers and so forth and so on.” 00:33:44 “In terms of construction, the design process of the Tang was the most interesting to me.” 00:34:56 “… a teaching museum. It would be integrated into the curriculum of the college …” 00:36:38 Search committee narrowed field to three architects for Tad Kuroda and Broekhuizen to visit. “Traveling with Tad … was just an absolute joy. Both in terms of focus on the questions we were asking of the architect …, but also spending free time together. We went to a baseball game out in Los Angeles, for instance … I was the only white guy there. And Tad just tweaked me … ‘What’s it feel like to be a member of a minority group now?’ [laughs]. And it was all said in fun you know, in jest and so forth, but it was just a positive experience.” 00:38:41 Then each architect came to Skidmore to give presentations. “…we had a site picked out …Predock said no … if you want this to be integral to the campus you need to have it on a path where students go, they’ll be forced to go by it or better yet through it. And so he selected this site, made his point, and talked about it growing up out of the ground and it would have this limestone-like exterior and you could go through it or you could go over it, and it was just very very exciting. I mean, he had clearly done his homework.” 00:40:45 “When the search committee came to make its final recommendation, I think it was Predock hands down. I mean I cannot remember a dissenting voice there. And working with him and his colleague, the vendor contractor, was just a joy.” 00:42:12 Another high point was hiring Barbara Beck as the Human Resources officer. She created “… a comprehensive Human Resource function that helped department chairs and faculty with leadership issues and problem solving.” 00:43:21 Restructuring after Dave Marcell left led to the Computing Center reporting to Broekhuizen. Some had suggested it “…be split between academic computing and administrative computing … I kept saying, ‘No, we want one person to be responsible for both areas so there’d be better coordination and articulation of their vision and their role… I just did not want essentially the same general function, computing, … vying for the same resources…’ ” 00:47:00 Skidmore community well served by Business Affairs senior directors. �00:48:03 “…Bob Jarvis, who did a wonderful job, … when he retired … ultimately, I decided to outsource the leadership to …Sodexo… I understand they are doing a fantastic job.” 00:49:55 “I have said … ‘Skidmore College could afford to do anything it chose to do. It could not do everything it wished to do.’ ” 00:50:25 “One of the greatest privileges of my life, to work at Skidmore.” 00:50:31 END � https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/15b306280817ba9b8319bdb96bb85a93.pdf f713a768cc6d9e0020b1a2d821dd321e PDF Text Text Interview with Karl Broekhuizen by Lynne Gelber, Skidmore College Retiree Oral History Project, Saratoga Springs, New York, April 18, 2019 LYNNE GELBER: Today is April 18th, 2019 and I’m here with Karl Broekhuizen and Sue Bender and this is Lynne Gelber. And we are happy to see you, Karl, after some time. Why don’t we start by having you tell us where you were born and raised and then maybe how you got to Skidmore eventually? KARL BROEKHUIZEN: I was born and raised in Holley, New York, which is about 25 miles west of Rochester, a small town of about eighteen hundred, primarily agricultural. I went to a small, a relatively small school system; there were 52 of us in my graduating class. When I left Holley to go to college, I went to the University of New Hampshire in Durham, New Hampshire. After that I went to the University of Massachusetts to get my MBA degree. I decided between undergraduate and graduate school that I thought I wanted to be more involved in the administrative side, financial side, of higher education. I had worked for the controller’s office at UNH and got a taste of that. LG: Excuse me, that was as a graduate student? KB: No, an undergraduate. LG: As an undergraduate? KB: Yes. A junior accountant type job. But I noticed, and this was in the early ‘60s, that at the time automated information and data processing was becoming, was coming on the scene. Most of the folks, the senior folks at UNH with whom I worked, were either retired military folks or faculty members who’d left the faculty to come into administration. And they felt, my observation was, they did not, were not fully embracing some of the nascent information processing age, and I felt there might be room for somebody in that arena. Also, somebody who had a somewhat different view of how not-for-profits, in particular — in general, and colleges and universities, in particular, ought to be managed and operated. At the conclusion of securing my master’s degree at U. Mass., the treasurer, who was the Chief Financial Officer at U. Mass. at the time, created three positions to report jointly to him and the dean of a particular college. To help serve, support the Dean in the academic college, administratively, �particularly financially, budget development and administration, but as I say, reporting jointly to the dean and to the treasurer. I was the first one hired in this role, as it turned out my classmate and roommate, apartment-mate, was the second one hired. My posting was to the graduate school, his was to the school of business. The graduate school at U. Mass. at that time had about 52 hundred students, had its own admissions operation, registrar’s operation, the University academic computing center reported there. The associate dean for research was in that office, so it was a very eclectic kind of arrangement and mirrored, in many regards, what a small college and university would be. LG: How long did you stay there? KB: I was there from 1967 to 1977, and throughout that I was the Business Manager in graduate school, then became Associate Budget Director for the University, and subsequent to that there were financial problems and the chancellor requested that I become the chief business person at the School of Education. And I was an Assistant Dean of Education at the time. I had an opportunity for a career change; I took the opportunity. U. Mass. had grown very much when I was there. When I first went there it was twelve thousand, five hundred students, when I left in 1977 it was twenty-five thousand students. With no disrespect to anybody, but the faculty had unionized, it was very different and it was very much political — part of the state, Massachusetts higher education system, it was very difficult to get things accomplished, both in terms of bureaucratic processes and scale. I applied for and was appointed Treasurer at Colby College in Waterville, Maine, which had about sixteen hundred students at that time. And had more control over its own destiny, not that there aren’t campus politics but about two layers was removed. And I was there for five years and then had the opportunity to come to Skidmore in September of 1981. LG: How did you hear about the Skidmore position? KB: I think I probably read about it in the Chronicle of Higher Education. LG: And you had an on campus interview with whom? KB: Well in the Skidmore tradition it was a staff of, it was a group of thousands. I mean it was a day and a half or two days on campus. Joe Palamountain was the president at the time, so I met with him, I met individually with Dave �Marcell, who was the provost, Eric Weller, who was the dean, Dave Long, who was the VP for … development, I think, at the time. Business Affairs staff, Steve Harran and Ted Butler. Claire Olds was the personnel director at the time. Some students, many faculty. Mark Gelber was on the faculty, was a member of the, a faculty member of the search committee. Mary Lynn was on that group at the time. I can’t remember most of the others. Had a very good, a pleasant session with my predecessor’s predecessor, Jim McCabe, who was a former Vice President. But anyway, it was quite an experience. LG: [laughs] So, and that was what year, again? KB: That was in June or early July of 1981, when the college was using, … I don’t know whether, I guess she was a friend, Nancy Martin Archer, Archer Martin was her name, and she was the search consultant. LG: So when you started work in 1981, what challenges did you face? KB: Well, I was not here, I guess I would say thankfully, in one regard, in the bad old, real bad old days, but I was here when days weren’t so good, either, particularly financially. Let me step back for just a second and say one of the things that appealed to me about the Skidmore opportunity was that it was, relative to … I won’t call them Skidmore’s peers, at the time, but relative to the competition, Skidmore was a very young institution and did not have 200 years of hidebound procedures, legacies, histories to have to deal with, and I felt, and Joe Palamountain reinforced the notion, that there was an opportunity for someone with a different perspective and some energy to come in and accomplish things, without having to be a slave to, again, as I say, 200 years of “the way we always did it.” KB: So coming to Skidmore in September, the fiscal year was June 30th, I was surprised, among other things, that their annual audit had not been yet completed. And so, Joe’s team and the board didn’t have much of an idea about how the college stood. And this was, you know, we were less than ten years into co-education, enrollments were a challenge, Louise Wise, the Director of Admissions at the time, was scrambling to fill beds. That year, in particular, the college had what it characterized as an “over-enrollment,” against what they had planned, or they had imagined, I think might be a better word than planned, would be the enrollment, and were renting spaces downtown, in School 7, the Van Dam building, and the community motel, for students. And how do we deal with that thing, that arrangement? We �were running busses, anyway, to Moore Hall, this was two, at least two, more stops. How do they get services, how do you arrange for them to get meals and so forth. So that was a challenge. The board had made the decision, either the previous February or May board meeting, to build a new sports center, which was seen at the time to be an addition to the Lodge. So, that was my first construction project on this campus. And very interesting, very … very different from the style of architecture elsewhere on campus, I would point out. The big job was to get to know the place and do some staffing. The area for which I was responsible at the time was called Business Affairs; it was not adequately staffed. The, then personnel function, now Human Resources, was essentially two people: Claire Olds, former Dean of Students, former Dean of Women and then Dean of Students, and Marianne Castelot and it was very clear that that area, given what was happening in society and on campuses, that area needed to be beefed up and needed to have somebody at its head who was more experienced, professionally experienced, in employment law, among other things, and good practices. LG: So had the architects and plans already been done for that sports center? KB: They were two-thirds done, I mean it was … one of the things I found, coming to Skidmore, and understandably so, was that the college never had, up to that point, sufficient resources to build buildings, design and build buildings that had sort of a common theme, and so forth. So what we needed, the college needed at the time for its dance program, athletics, et cetera, was space. And they couldn’t afford to, yet, to pay for the kind, the amount of space, they needed, with … wrapped in a finer quality skin, if you will, than we had. It was something that, you know, one of the realities of life. When I came to Skidmore, when we finally got the audit for the year ending June 30, 1981, the market value of the endowment was 7.3 million dollars, and the comprehensive fee was ninety-four hundred dollars. So the place, the college, was used to being under-resourced. And, I would say, I said back then, I would say at least up until the point in time that I retired, Skidmore became what it was, and what it is today, in terms of what I would categorize as the middle of the top tier of institutions, independent of the largest colleges, on the backs of the faculty and staff, trustees and students. Everybody uniformly put their shoulder to the wheel and pushed because they were all invested in what this … what the vision of this institution was. They gave fringe benefits rather than salaries, because it was less expensive �to do so. And people were very grateful for that. So, the … whatever story there was behind the now Williamson Kettering Williamson Sports Center, was a function of, “we need the space for our programs; it can’t be a pretty space.” One of the things that we were able to do early on is … and I would, I had, I made the case but I had a lot of support from the academic leadership of the college and ultimately the president and trustees, was to try to move our construction program up a notch or two in terms of quality, design, location. Much of what I know of the early development of this campus comes from, you know, other people … people like Joe and Jim McCabe, Dave Marcell, Erwin Levine, Mark Gelber, and so forth. I didn’t experience it all myself but I observed the results. One of the early things that the college had to deal with was when they acquired this property there was a lot of a limestone ledge not very far below the surface. And most, if not all, of the early buildings are three feet higher in the air because it was less expensive to go up than to blast and go down. [chuckles]. LG: Were there any other buildings that you were involved in? KB: Oh, there was a whole range. Ahh … what did we do, we did a residence hall, we did Harder Hall, temporary space [laughs]. Ahh … we renovated a large space, took Starbuck Center, which was a student social space, at one time, converted it into offices and so forth. Did the same with Barrett, that was in process when I first arrived, but Barrett was another student lounge, student center, at the time. We did Tisch, a learning center. Umm, certainly we did the Tang. I was involved in the planning process, design process, for the Northwoods apartments, the same with the Zankel. I was … I retired before they were, the Northwoods were just about completed when I retired, the Zankel was, we were still seeking funding as I recall. We did the library, additions on this library, during that tenure. We did the big addition to Case Center. LG: A lot of change! KB: Well yes, and the change was a function of, I think, the growing reputation and acceptance, acknowledgement of the student population, potential student population, of what Skidmore was and could be. It was a change, recognizing a change, in how curriculum was developed and delivered. The other thing I would comment on is that there was tremendous growth in �terms of the number of employees. When I came there were maybe 250, possibly 300 employees — faculty and staff. When I retired there was over 600, and now I understand its up over 800. But that’s a function of legal requirements; Title 9, in terms of women’s athletics, greater use of delivering … a need for counseling services, computing services, athletic teams, balancing mens and women’s teams, in terms of offerings, new additions to the curriculum, there’s a lot of new majors and so forth, greater health services, more staff for that. LG: In the course of your years, who were the presidents of the college? You started with Joe … KB: Joe Palamountain hired me, and then retired after six years. The college then hired David Porter, for almost 12 years, Jamienne Studley for four, Phil was here two years, when I retired. LG: You’ve really seen everybody after Val Wilson. Umm …? KB: I mean I, yeah, and I’d like to comment about that. I think Skidmore, this college, is today, is what it is today, in a large part because of Joe Palamountain’s presidency. Joe, in my opinion, saved this college. Val died prematurely, and Joe, who had little institutional experience, he had been provost at Wesleyan, came and saw what needed to be done in terms of bringing this campus in this location to a meaningful presence, and I think he surrounded himself with a good, a great team, and was able to move forward. I think when he chose to retire and the board hired David Porter, at the risk of seeming immodest, I think David was able to do what he did best, which was faculty interaction and support, because he inherited a very good support team. Dave Marcell and EricWeller, Dave Long, … I was part of the team, whether history will decide whether I was a major contributor or not [chuckle]. But that meant that David could rely on those folks to take care of daily operations, doing the stuff that needed to be done, so that he could visit faculty in their offices and focus on his vision for academic and programmatic growth of the college. LG: You were here at the point when Phyllis Roth took a year, two different times, KB: She, Phyllis, was acting president when David took sabbatical, and that was �for like six months, and then in the interim period after David’s retirement, in December, she completed that fiscal, that academic year and the first portion, I think it was, of the following. LG: From your point of view was that seamless? KB: Yes, yes. LG: You might comment on, aside from their different interests and talents that the various presidents brought, in what ways did their interactions with your area change … or grow? KB: Well, Joe was fairly hands off. He described, when we had our first or second interview, he described his leadership style as sort of a team approach or what he called a matrix management style. Which meant that the president’s staff, which at the time I think it was six of us, met weekly around a table and discussed whatever the important issue was in each of our divisions, and decisions were made collectively, and if … Joe was the referee to the extent that one was necessary, which it rarely was, and by the end of the conversation if, in fact, we couldn’t reach a conclusion, which we often did in one sitting, we all knew what the marching orders were, I mean, Joe would say, “yes, let’s do that,” or “let’s take some more time,” or whatever. And he said, at the time, and there is, in trustee minutes or board books or somewhere, that the president and the vice president, presidents, were what was called board appointed officers. That is, he would recommend to the board the hiring or appointment of the chief academic officer or the chief business officer or whatever, but the appointment was by the board. Deans were not. They reported to board appointed officers, and that worked well, I think, for the times. Oh, I was very, very impressed by one instance that I can recall very clearly, that I had, and this was during budget development time. I had an issue, and I can’t even remember what it was, it might have been in the computing center, where I needed fifty thousand dollars more than the preliminary budget figures required. We all talked about it in the room and Dave Long, VP for external affairs, said, “I can help you with that. I’ll give you fifty thousand dollars out of my budget.” No great hassle, no … what I would characterize as infighting, we were part of a team. And we would all meet, I think it was bi-weekly, one-on-one with Joe, just to talk specifically about things in our areas. Rarely, unless they were personnel, there was rarely any �decision made — it was more information exchange and obtaining perspectives, one to the other. But really the decision making was collective. I think, erroneously, many people thought that that made Joe sort of aloof from the operations. He wasn’t, it was just his style. When David came, again I think he set his priorities as the faculty and academic programming. We would still have president’s staff meetings. He, pretty much, continued with the matrix style of operation and the recognition of a differential between board-appointed officers and other senior members of the community. There were, to the best of my recollection, no major personnel changes during the period between David’s retirement and Jamie’s coming on board that Phyllis had to deal with, in that regard. Essentially it was, the time when, it was time to go to construction on the Tang. And I remember very clearly Phyllis being on the top of an excavator with one of the construction team’s people, coming around a grove of trees, in a hard hat and leading … But that was what I remember as the most visible nonacademic activity that Phyllis got involved in, I mean new activity. Jamie was very different, in my opinion she … I don’t know quite how to phrase it, she didn’t pay as much attention to the notion of separation of board appointed officers and their roles and responsibilities and others. The size of the president’s staff increased, Don McCormack was added to the group … and … LG: And Don was, at that time? KB: Don was Dean of Special Programs — had been, for a great long time. But, not but, his reporting relationship was to Dave Marcell, as Provost, or whoever the chief academic officer was, as Dave had left at that time to go to Rollins. But anyway … things, from my perspective, got much more centralized in the office of the president. She was very hands on, involved in lots of decision making. … LG: So the president’s staff had less of a voice? KB: As a collective, yes, it was much more one-on-one. It was like a wagon wheel, with Jaime as the hub, the rest of us were spokes, more decisions got made in her office than in the conference room. I had been at the college for whatever it was, eighteen or twenty years at the time, had my relationships with various trustees, that gave me a level of independence that a newer, less �tenured, not in terms of tenure, but in terms of time, other officers might have. So like the Vice president for Development or even the faculty, at the time. So, I mean it was just different styles, and different times, as well. LG: And what about Phil? KB: Well we worked together for two years and he was getting his feet under him, again. He was interested in knowing, housing-wise, I guess, of some of the things that we were doing, in terms of bond issues, for instance, and things of that nature. That was the level of his engagement in the Business Affairs area. LG: So Karl, in all of that, tremendous amount of change, what was the most exciting for you, the most pleasant, let’s say? KB: Well I think in terms of Business Affairs, at the time it was a very eclectic kind of division. I mean we had dining services and post office and bookstores and computing centers and so forth and so on. But certainly, in terms of construction, the design process of the Tang was the most interesting to me. Again, many members of a community that views itself as being very inclusive and so forth aren’t aware, I guess, of what’s included in the bylaws of a non-profit organization. The bylaws of Skidmore, at the time, and I’m sure they haven’t changed much, said that the Business Affairs, the vice president for Business Affairs, under the president, is the one responsible for the design and construction of the buildings and the facilities. So, I, when David and the faculty, particularly the art faculty, decided that we should have a museum, and the trustees were not enthralled with that notion, at the time primarily because their vision of a museum was a place where you showed artwork, paintings and sculptures and so forth, and Skidmore couldn’t afford that, given all the other challenges and desires that it had, and David, working with, must have been Bennie Wise, Phyllis at the time, and other faculty, determined that this would be a teaching museum. It would be integrated into the curriculum of the college, and take advantage of the college’s reputation in the arts, “art” arts, but make sure that students were there, involved in that facility, as part of their experience, their Skidmore experience, not just to go and view masterpieces and so forth. And so the board authorized us to do a teaching museum, I convened a group, with recommendations from Phyllis as to faculty members and who �would be there. We got alumni involved in it, trustees involved, and staff, and we had a search committee for an architect. And Tad Kuroda was intimately involved in that and working with Tad was just an absolute joy. We ended up with Antoine Predock. His name was surfaced by Jim Kettlewell, who was on the search committee. We winnowed ourselves down to three architects, the finalists, and Tad and I visited them in their studios. Antoine Predock, Frank Gehry in California, Predock in New Mexico and Robert Venturi in Philadelphia. And traveling with Tad, and these were typically two day visits or whatever, was just an absolute joy. Both in terms of focus on the questions we were asking of the architect and so forth, but also spending free time together. We went to a baseball game out in Los Angeles, for instance, and that worked out very good. Tad was a baseball fan, a big fan. And we watched the Dodgers play, I can’t remember whom, but we were up in the cheap seats because we got tickets last. And the Dodgers had an Asian, Japanese, I think, pitcher who was lightening, he was just very very good, and we ended up in these upper bleachers and … I can’t tell you how many, but I bet you there were at least 25, maybe more, folks there all Japanese or Japanese American. I was the only white guy there. And Tad just tweaked me … “What’s it feel like to be a member of a minority group now?” [laughs]. And it was all said in fun you know, in jest and so forth, but it was just a positive experience. We then had each of these three architects come to Skidmore, make presentations in the Surry, and I kept playing my role, and part — one of my roles was, “We’ve only got six million dollars to fund, to spend. How can you bring your vision in for six million dollars?” Gehry said, “Oh, it might be a little more than that,” but he wouldn’t give us a number. Predock came, and he came at least one, maybe two, days early, met with us and he spoke with faculty. One of the faculty members who we asked to take him on a tour of the surrounding area and of the campus was Ken Johnson, head of the Geology Department at the time. And Gehry was very much into designs that were organic to the site, and we had a site picked out and a facade that would blend very much, with colonial kind of construction and it was up closer to the campus. Predock said no, you don’t … if you want this to be integral to the campus you need to have it on a path where students go, they’ll be forced to go by it or better yet through it. And so he selected this site, made his point, and talked about it growing up out of the ground and it would have this limestone-like exterior and you could go through it or you could go over it, and it was just very very exciting. I mean, he had clearly done his homework. Gehry and Venturi were older guys, whose reputations �were more well established. Predock had a reputation but it wasn’t on the same scale. They came in, did their dog and pony show and left. And I believe, if my recollection is correct, when the search committee came to make its final recommendation, I think it was Predock hands down. I mean I cannot remember a dissenting voice there. And working with him and his colleague, the vendor contractor, was just a joy. One of … Predock would do these clay models and so forth and I remember looking at one that he brought up, … and talked about these sloping roofs, “and we’ll plant grass.” And I said, “no, we’re not going to do that. [laughs] I understand what you’re trying to do, but I’m not going to ask the physical plant crew to be mowing roofs. And this in wintertime and so forth and so on.” But just, and from my, now more just in perspective I think that both the structure, the museum structure, and the teaching aspects of it and the way it helps to both inform and deliver the curriculum and students academic experience has just been a remarkable success. It was a joy to have had a role in that. LG: Anything else that you want to add? KB: Well I would say … hiring Barbara Beck as the Human Resources officer who took, what was really, with no disrespect to her predecessors, sort of a paper processing operation into a comprehensive Human Resource function that helped department chairs and faculty with leadership issues and problem solving. Did a great job in terms of contract negotiations with, seven, at the time, unions. LG: Were you involved in her hiring? KB: I hired her. LG: Ok. KB: With some faculty dissent who thought that the person from corporate, GE, couldn’t be successful in an academic environment. Not true. LG: Ok. Anything else that we haven’t touched on that you have been thinking about? KB: Well, I think that … I can’t quite remember the circumstance, I that that, I guess when Dave left, Dave Marcell, yes, the range of the number of divisions that reported, yes, we were going to do away, they did away with �the Provost title, and it became Vice President for Academic Affairs and Dean of the Faculty; Dave’s and Eric’s function was combined. There were then questions about whether, since that sort of had a less diffuse focus in terms of divisional areas of responsibility, more focused on the faculty and academic program, what would happen to the various divisions. And Dave’s was … David Porter said Dean of Faculty would continue to report to the Academic Vice President, though I think it was Associate Dean at the time, and the Director of Admissions would report directly to David, Dean of Special Programs… LG: David Porter? KB: David Porter. Dean of Special Programs would report to David Porter, umm…, oh, Dean of Student Affairs would report to David Porter. Computing Center would report to me. And one of the things that I argued vociferously for, in opposition to positions that Michael Arnush and others took, was, … who was suggesting that the Computing Center be split between academic computing and administrative computing, with academic computing reporting to the Chief Academic Officer of the College. I kept saying, “No, we want one person to be responsible for both areas so there’d be better coordination and articulation of their vision and their role with directors of academic computing and administrative computing.” Ken Hapeman was there at the time, Leo Geoffrion, and Stan McGaughey, and I said, “I just did not want essentially the same general function, computing, vying for resources, vying for the same resources. I want one person to make the case, to be … if they were going to report to me, and ultimately to the president.” And so we did that and I think that worked out very well and it’s still the case today with Bill Duffy, and formerly Justin …, I can’t remember Justin’s last name, being an attendee at the Dean’s staff meetings. So that portion of the loop was better represented, I guess. I think that, it’s not just me, it’s the team that was in place with the support of Joe and David in particular, that the professionalism at the College, in terms of … well the areas in Business Affairs, and not exclusively, but elsewhere, have just come leaps and bounds. And I would say, I have said and I would repeat, again at least for the time that I was privileged to be at the college, that most members of the Skidmore community have … had no idea how well they were served by the senior directors in Business Affairs. The Ken Hapemans, Barbara Becks, Phil Cifarelli, Chris Kaczmarek, umm, we ran into some turmoil for a bit in facility services but got that squared away… �LG: Who was running that? KB: Well when I came it was Bob Jarvis, who did a wonderful job. Colonel Jarvis! [laughs] So when he retired, which many have said that was the worst thing he’d ever done, we had some trouble just getting the right focus and coordination. And ultimately, I decided to outsource the leadership, to Marriott, which became Sodexo, and so forth, but I understand they are doing a fantastic job. We insisted that the employees, the … unionized employees, would remain Skidmore employees, but the leadership would be on Sodexo’s payroll. But they were every bit as much a Skidmore employee. If they had to make a choice between what was right for Sodexo and what was right for Skidmore, Skidmore had to be it. And they were not to wear their Sodexo uniforms on campus. LG: So what was Sodexo’s responsibility, again? KB: Well Sodexo’s role was the leadership of facility services. The professional staff, the foreman and assistant … director and assistant director, but the line folks were our …were Skidmore employees. But I would say, you know, all … and I would take great credit for, well I would take some credit for this in terms of, at the time, the Business Affairs staff, their professional growth and leadership and management style all in service of the academic and student affairs programs at Skidmore College. I think it’s grown; I think the college is well served by it, not without challenges. I would say, I have said to, particularly to David Porter when he showed up, when he arrived, and I said the same to Jamie and I’ve said the same to Phil, shortly after he arrived, “Skidmore College could afford to do anything it chose to do. It could not do everything it wished to do.” LG: And with that, thank you. That was a wonderful ending. KB: A great privilege. One of the greatest privileges of my life, to work at Skidmore. LG: Excellent. Thank you so much. KB: Well you’re very welcome. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Skidmore College Retirees Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lynne Gelber Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Karl Broekhuizen Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs, NY, 12866 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 50:33 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Susan Bender Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit March 29, 2022 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Karl Broekhuizen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 18, 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource Karl Broekhuizen came to Skidmore in 1981 as Vice President of Business Affairs and remained in that position until 2005. In this interview he describes his path to Skidmore, including his education and experiences as a financial officer at other higher education institutions. He considers the unique opportunities involved in managing a relatively young institution like Skidmore and reflects on his work with four College presidents. Some of the financial challenges faced by the College across the years, its ambitious building program (especially the Tang), and building reputation throughout his tenure are topics that figure prominently in this interview. Language A language of the resource English (en) Subject The topic of the resource Retiree Oral History Project Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History College Reputation David Porter Glotzbach Sports Center Human Resources Palamountain President's Staff Studley Tad Kuroda Tang Museum Zankel Music Center