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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ashley Polanco Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Juliana Boucher, Samantha García, Jonnea Herman, Isabel Rojas, Alison Ungaro Letellier, Aaron Schneider Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Ashley Polanco Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/26/2016 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource How does the media represent Latinxs? Latinx Students Video Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/23/2016 - 03/24/2016 Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Ashley Polanco Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ashley Polanco Description An account of the resource Latinx students from Skidmore College spoke with Ashley Polanco and Alyssa Morales on the ways in which the media perceives Latinxs. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ashley Polanco Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Juliana Boucher, Samantha García, Jonnea Herman, Isabel Rojas, Alison Ungaro Letellier, Aaron Schneider Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Ashley Polanco Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/26/2016 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource When People See me: Skidmore Latinx Student Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ashley Polanco Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/23/2016 - 03/24/2016 Language A language of the resource English Description An account of the resource Latinx students from Skidmore College engaged in a conversation with Ashley Polanco and Alyssa Morales of Raices about race within Latinx communities. They share their experiences of how others perceive their identities. Dominican family Latinos Latinx Mexican oral history Puerto Rican race Skidmore College student https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/bce5c9303ddcf12bb1b466681925a1c3.jpg 4a764c2a8b653bd94b59fd267bb1b282 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peg Boyers and Dog Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Emma Dodge Hanson https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d00f61792e3a7b0e5e7400b457407656.m4a 8315cd4521b13d60393b20c6286072fc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peg Boyers From Venezuela to Cuba Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/25/2016 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/06883a235e04dc1e7ec11275a48c6b6d.m4a 39dbfacf2202682ed408265cbdae173a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peg Boyers Identity Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/25/2016 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/85bc110106171961494309e7c292e05f.m4a 0aff49cfa30df59697cfcea62e616a75 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peg Boyers Migrant Community/Immigration Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/25/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sarah Coker Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Peg Boyers Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Sarah Coker Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/26/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peg Boyers Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/25/2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sarah Coker Language A language of the resource eng Description An account of the resource <div>Peg Boyers is a Skidmore alumni and faculty lecturer in the English Department, as well as executive editor of Salmagundi Magazine. She spoke with Skidmore Student Sarah Coker at her home in Saratoga Springs on March 25<span>^th</span>&nbsp;2016 about Cuban identity, Cubans in the United States, and her travel experiences as a child.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> Cuba Cuban culture family identity immigration Latin America Latina Latino Latinx migration oral history Skidmore College Skidmore faculty https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e84c6b4604782006a70f3ca14ec3a158.m4a 43e44af35514205fcb21d2d84825e521 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Santiago Avendaño: Family https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/39434239eb65a0b70b1bfa13c94ff976.m4a ab254f679bc9c706c3d23677b3dff5f3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. 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Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aaron Schneider Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Santiago Avendano Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, New York Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Santiago Avendaño Interview Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Aaron Schneider Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/25/2016 Description An account of the resource Santiago Avendaño is a Skidmore College student from Buenos Aires, Argentina. He spoke with Aaron Schneider about his racial identity and his relationship to his country of origin. 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Title A name given to the resource Nurianny Montilla Identity Part 1: Trujillo, Food https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c8c845cd243d2f815c2f7fb995ceb5d4.mp4 ed6866c913cbdede2ed527ffada16022 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nurianny Montilla Identity Part 2: Hair https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ec94d846a7569f5c561b97c8f9565c50.mp4 1a7441711c22e5f71197ea436fe24e72 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nurianny Montilla Identity Part 3: Anthro 101 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2f59fe1037137da2f832618100ccefae.mp4 c7b088fd8410339223df9a2d57827124 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nurianny Montilla Daily Life at Skidmore https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/19beb7c4e6f29f170c36b8aba16947ba.mp4 ef7a29dcf14f3b475a288238581a6aab Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nurianny Montilla Daily Life at Skidmore, Family Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Abby Outterson Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nurianny Montilla Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Abby Outterson Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/26/2016 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nurianny Montilla Interview Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Abby Outterson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/26/2016 Description An account of the resource Nurianny Montilla is a Skidmore student living in Saratoga Springs, NY. She is a senior at Skidmore majoring in sociology, and she spoke with fellow Skidmore senior Abigail Outterson on March 26th, 2016 about her experiences being born in the Dominican Republic, growing up in New Jersey, and coming to Saratoga Springs to attend Skidmore College. 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Title A name given to the resource "Dream and Family" https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/545c81daaf514d47b6c889976c06e13c.mp4 386a50c1f192c8c11c3050e5876676de Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "First Jobs" https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/872ab7292871cf504d7d6a144dccef2e.mp4 d7f6bb442a8477a9c3b154d14ea9f163 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Gender Differences" https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0ec90975ab64b5cf9c45c74866524fef.mp4 45588429561b270521e944f8de5def63 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource "Settling" Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Alison Ungaro Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Aldo X. Dennis X. Location The location of the interview College Point, Queens, NY. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Aldo and Dennis Video Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 03/27/2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alison Ungaro Description An account of the resource Aldo and Dennis X. are two brothers living in Long Island, New York. They are uncles of Skidmore student Alison Ungaro, and spoke with her about their experience migrating from Peru to the United States through work, education, community, religion and family. Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history Latinx oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2b84cdb53eece17da7d7f21050775a95.m4a bc893e4c21c40b06823b4867171e42b3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daniel Valencia: Language https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1f0e3c5dc51323dcf5ec2fd7f60e74c9.m4a 27315d18d8078ab3df9772394d834084 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daniel Valencial Culture - Mom & Dad https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/7a02cb72edc3c2851b83ec3cb973f5ef.m4a 0f31e196eb586472a69e2c1e210568c0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daniel Valencia: Two Cultures Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Sarah Coburn Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/26/2016 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sarah Coburn Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Daniel Valencia Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daniel Valencia Interview Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sarah Coburn Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 04/02/2016 Description An account of the resource Danny Valencia is a college student and route setter at The Rock Club in New Rochelle, NY living in White Plains, NY. He spoke with Sarah Coburn on April 9th, 2016 about his memories of living in and visiting Colombia and experiences of being a Latino immigrant in the United States. bicultural Colombia culture family language Latino Latinx oral history Skidmore College student https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fb0071e6f7ea8c3b92f6e23ea7dfa458.jpg 98ea060ad899c82d0bc10a322645f3c4 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5b104ca7205e0f41db9dd321faa3c3f6.mp3 8227d5a94a2c8e2efd4f4def5d9106b9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource We Are the Same, But Different https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d165811e0e48432ccee4707008d60d8a.mp3 4536c95963210b2be5b269c9616c84ae Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Who am I? https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/77245533b415859f0a9791da7e6a3a36.mp3 130160d59569852b8bd2cc780635bad4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Mestizo/a Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ricky Ríos Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Sarah Cobrun Ricky Ríos Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/26/2016 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cinthia Durán Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cinthia Durán Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 04/03/2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ricky Rios culture Ecuador ethnicity Gender identity Indigenous Latin America Latina Latino Latinx Mestiza mestizo race Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/87dbeba0ef16447a7e24ef34b4be2221.mp3 8317494315e2ce14e620238b9621d905 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/4ba9ad7527ba8ca5bb3f3e0a6368bd55.mp3 9f3666e2aee57fe35069e9e088fb43db Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. 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Title A name given to the resource David Parra: Dominican York https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/74ccfb24cf5748f910b6d9a57b19f543.mp3 585113e37e7418a4c5343a07654a1522 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/51da4a35acfb0412b97db68900548bac.mp3 968920ba2f192ba30d6d498e2c293512 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/7b627a0734a9b41cc076a538cd4153e8.mp3 85b8e08632eef9a4f21482ceedab412d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/72539a15c7cf6bc8b2b5047862f66d69.mp3 d653ae2c7ed243ef7883decff58eaa6f https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f12bd53eaf6d0890a2de22af8e175cc0.mp3 078081ea7b1cbc1b1ce7f6895a09850a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Arlene Hernandez Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed David Parra Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Arlene Hernandez Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/04/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource David Parra Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 04/04/2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Arlene Hernandez Language A language of the resource eng Description An account of the resource David Parra, a Skidmore College student, was born and raised in New York City. His mother immigrated to New York City from the Dominican Republic in her 20s. David spoke with Arlene Hernandez on April 4, 2016 about his experiences with education, family, work and more related to his Dominican identity. basketball bilingual culture Dominican Republic English family identity immigrant language Latin America Latino Latinx migration Motivation New York (state) New York City oral history Skidmore College Spanish student work https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/4d4a934d45ef57ffb7c77cc4142fffcf.m4a 1d7f730fe4a69ab116210955eff1b861 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Miguel Hoyos Motherland https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/73566b79492128180df16eb63a961c6a.m4a 246b076fb519898d5c1b818dc1197cf7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Miguel Hoyos Catalina Experiences https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/faf421308355a1540c5ecad95467c2d5.m4a 16d6daa301127608480c5b09e59dc5f6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Miguel Hoyos No al Hambre https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2081469fdd31a51a782a1d3bed9c1822.m4a 6a56994a9e1a45f455f4d473a5eb3414 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Miguel Hoyos Racetrack Family Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gloria Peters Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Miguel Hoyos Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Gloria Peters Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/26/2016 Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs, NY Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Miguel Hoyos Interview Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gloria Peters Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 04/07/2016 Description An account of the resource Miguel Hoyos is an artist living in Saratoga Springs, New York. He spoke with Gloria Peters on April 7, 2016 about his memories of Colombia, his experiences in the United States, and the way Latinxs' experiences of discrimination and suffering are present in his art and his own experiences. artist Colombia Colombian community ethnicity family immigration Latinx oral history paintings race https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/bb7728d13b337413eee904280491c15e.jpg ad736b49156b2e3832ae2524ce63b376 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/935bd5d7ac4027fa126a88a8e581c51b.m4a 8ce8fd3f456571ffaff64c33a2f96fc5 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/302c148993179e06f3f0bab8b3a22e99.jpg fff7d77e5ab015199ec15c8a7a14b448 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/62e66feefaa9462c2cc743ca8569afa9.pdf 970423d2b78f3c23effe7588bc793ed7 PDF Text Text 1 Title Evelyn Vasquez Interview Date June 2nd, 2018 Language Eng Interviewer Emily Rizzo Location Media Services, Skidmore Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Original Format Audio Recording Duration 39:30 Tags HEOP , Opportunity Program , Raíces , Study abroad , Alumni , Oral history , Skidmore College �2 ER: Can we start with you saying your full name, your class year, your major, and where you’re from? E: Class of 1998. originally from the DR, I was born there, grew up in Washington Heights, New York. currently live in Westchester, NY. ER: You said you met your husband here? Can we talk about that? EV: So, we met here. we were both HEOP students. It also happened that he's also Dominican, so I guess there was an attraction, some sort of comfortable place with that. we actually didn’t date until senior year. and that's when we became a couple, things happen in-between, and 10 years after we graduated... yeah 10 years, we got together for good. we have now four kids, two boys and two girls, ages of 12 and four, four through 12. One of the benefits of your partner being from the same school and actually the same year, makes coming back actually so much sweeter. Because he's also comfortable in the environment, he also wants to come and see friends. and we can sort of reminisce together, "Oh you remember in the cafeteria, all the parties we attended..." So, it's sort of an always Skidmore reminder when that happens to someone, which is a good thing. ER: Yeah. What have you guys been reminiscing about? Anything that is really sticking out? EV: Oh, me trying to get all the girls off his back! *Laughs* The majority here are girls. The student population is mostly female, and I think was 60... I don’t know I can’t remember the ratio but... So, I always joke with him, I always had to stand my ground and let the girls know, "Hey he's with me." [Laugh]. ER: It's always a problem here. �3 EV: Then the other thing we reminisce about is our HEOP experience and our HEOP summer. And a character that's always lively from a professor perspective was Sheldon [Solomon, professor of psychology]. So all the funny grades he would give us and then we would say, "You know what? He was right." My husband was saying he got an F- and the comment was, Sheldon wrote, "You should try harder to fail." And then another one was, "You got a D for dog shit." And he's like, "You know what? But he was right." Because he wasn’t up to the quality and it's like... back then we were like, "How dare he give us this grade and say all these comments!" And then we look back and he's like, "You know what, those were great advice." [Laugh]. EV: We reminisce about... We were also part of Raíces. I don’t know if it has the same name, but it was the Latino Hispanic student club and we would do performances. So obviously we were always part of the dancing crew. There was always a group of us that for every Latino celebration we made sure we did some sort of dance performance to a meringue, salsa... {...] and we were always involved with that. And sometimes we'd get upset like, "You're not following me, what are you thinking, pay attention, you don't know how to dance." Cause we would practice a lot, we thought we were professionals on stage because we wanted to put on a good show. It was a cultural show, we wanted to show that off like this is our culture and we're proud of it. So we took time and pride in what we were building to put out for the Skidmore community. EV: Just a couple of things that we reminisce and talk about. ER: That's amazing. I want to ask questions about all those things, but I want to start from the beginning... can you talk about your experience with HEOP? EV: Mind you, this was 20 years ago, so HEOP was the Higher Education Opportunity Program. I think it has evolved a little bit through the years. So back when I started it was mostly for domestic students. I think now we've expanded to serve international students. The perspective to give domestic students, usually from inner-city, who obviously have shown �4 potential through their high school career to have access to outstanding college education. So it came with not only a support system, but it also came with financial aid support as well. Because obviously a lot of kids that came to that program had also financial... required some financial support as well. EV: But what I remember most is all the support the program provided. So, I guess a lot of us came from inner cities where a lot of us didn't receive the best education growing up but we definitely had the potential to develop and obviously be in a classroom with kids that have had a world class education all through their lives. And they had what they call the higher education opportunity program summer, the HEOP Summer, and there you would get tutored in all the foundations to give you a good start for college. So it was the summer before your freshman year. You come in you get an intensive writing course, you get your basic math course, then we also took some sort of psychology... that liberal arts perspective as well. So it was really a program that supported you more than just financially, it was emotionally. I know a lot of us went to the HEOP office for emotional support, people that you can talk to when you're having a hard time. EV: For many of us coming to Skidmore was a culture shock. People talk, "Oh it's the real world." But I look back and I'm like, well I was living in the real world before coming to Skidmore except that everybody looked like me, talked like me...I grew up in a neighborhood in Washington Heights that was predominantly Dominicans, Latinos, so everybody spoke Spanish. I went to high school where 99.9 of the people were people of color. You obviously got exposed out of your real world but pretty much my real world was people like me, that sound like me, that ate like me, that dressed like me, that had curly hair like me right. And then you come into Skidmore and for me it was a culture shock and I'm pretty sure for other students that perhaps never even dealt with somebody of color, it was also a culture shock. So it was sort of the first time that I looked around and I'm like oh I'm the darkest person. That never happened to me. �5 EV: Oh, wait I'm the only one with curly hair. Oh shoot I'm the only one with an accent and you do feel a little bit like an outsider and to be honest that was really hard for me and it took some time for me to understand my environment and try to be successful in it. Not because I couldn't but because everything was... how can I say it? Because other things that should have been okay, became top of mind for me, like my skin color, everything else, my accent. I remember, reading whatever assignment, whatever we had, like 20,000 times because I was like oh my god I have a question, but I want to make sure that it’s not answered in the book because I was like I don't want to speak up. If the answer is in the book then I can figure it out myself but if it’s not, oh I have to raise my hand and speak up and my accent... You sort of feel so much conscious about what is I guess your natural being. EV: So the HEOP was there to support a lot of us through that and make sure that we not only survived in an environment that was not our everyday environment, an environment that we weren't used to, but really strive in it and do well. I mean I think I did great from an academic perspective at Skidmore. I was a double major, I was part of the honors society. So I think if the HEOP office wasn't there I would have most likely gotten lost and a little bit drowned by all these things that became top of mind rather than my focus on my studies. So I look back and I think the HEOP program was really the foundation for me to do well here. EV: And I think back and look back at Skidmore as this great place that opened the world to me in a way. So as you go through it you may not be appreciate but then after you've gone you're like you know what? I'm glad it took me out of my comfortable Washington heights because that was my world, but the world is so much bigger than that. And it's an appreciation for different worlds out there and that are accessible to me. I was reading somewhere; a great college is not one that prepares you for the four years that you're there it's really the one that prepares you for life. And I think that's what Skidmore has done to me; sort of prepare me, not for the four years that I was here because they go by so quickly but what comes after that for the rest of my life and how do I handle myself, how do I carry myself, how do I take advantage of those opportunities that I see and really open the world and a new perspective. �6 ER. Wow thank you so much for sharing, I really appreciate it. EV: No problem, no problem. ER: It's really nice to hear. Thank you. EV: Not a problem. ER: I mean I'm so glad that it exists, the OP program. EV: And I hope that it still does that, I know that Skidmore is doing great strides for diversity and I hope that the Equal Opportunity Program is the backbone to that because it does provide so much more to the students that come in who for some reason may feel different or otherwise that perhaps would not do well without the program. It's a great program. ER: I think Skidmore needs to keep going with it, keep getting better and better, because it's still predominantly white. Most of the teachers are white and teachers, this is something I've been thinking a lot about lately, a lot of the teachers are really just not... are stuck in their comfort zone and not willing to talk about what it means to be white and what white supremacy is and how whiteness affects how they teach and how they should, how race and social issues and the world should be part of the classroom. We're not really talking about that. I'm looking forward to that happening more. EV: Yeah and a lot of the issues that you mention, white supremacy, a lot of people do not, it's so engrained into our society that it happens subconsciously without people thinking about it. I think we do need to take a pause, say what's going on here, because we can put numbers around it. But going back to what I was saying, how do we know when we're successful? And I think that's when somebody like me can come in and not look around and say oh my god I'm �7 the darkest person. Oh my god I'm the only one with curly hair, oh my god I’m the only one with an accent. Instead of numbers its really like when you can have this diverse group of people be part of the community and not feel like they are the only one and they are the one that looks like an outsider. So when we have that, like when people like me don’t have to look and say oh I’m the darkest one, brown skin, I’m the one that sounds kind of weird, looks different. And it's not only a Skidmore problem. It goes beyond that. But yeah what is the school doing, is it doing enough? Or is what it's doing being efficient? Because I'm pretty sure a lot is being done and it's top of mind for the school, but I think we need to take a step back and say okay what are the actions we are taking and is this working? Is this creating the value that we want to be created? And it's something that me as an alumni take seriously. We try to shape that by volunteering, by our time, by giving a different perspective as well. Because I just cannot come back every reunion year and expect things to change if I don't give back and be part of the process and be part of the solution and be part of how can we make Skidmore better? So it works both ways as well. But yeah, I definitely agree there is much work to be done and I know it's top priority for Skidmore. Whether it is where we want it to be, I’m not sure. ER: Well thank you so much for your work, your devotion to this place. What ideas do you have? I mean are you seeing some things that Skidmore is doing and saying this isn't efficient and what do you think Skidmore should be doing? I feel like you will have a perspective as an alum... You're saying that you're aware that this is top priority right but maybe it's not efficient. What do you think they can do to be better or what's something new they can do? EV: That's a good question and I don't think I have the answer. [Laugh]. I definitely have some ideas. This is the thing with diversity because you need to have a balance... an easy one is you need to increase your diversity numbers, which I think Skidmore is doing. But I think it's once the student gets here, what support are they being provided. What can the college do more from that social engagement? Which I think was something that I didn't have. And again, it could have changed. To give an example, some of it could be my fault but also... some of it like I �8 said could be self-inflicted, but also some of it could have probably been a little bit relieved by the college. So one of the... I don’t want to say one of the biggest regrets but if I could do something over in college its expose myself socially more. Because I was so concerned about oh my god I represent not just me but my race, my ethnicity, that you don’t want to be the dumbest person in the class. I think... and again I'm talking personally, I created this bubble around me where I didn't socialize as much with people outside of my HEOP classmates. I always look back and I’m like how know what I could have socialized a bit more I could have engaged more with people. And again, some of it is self-inflicted but I think if there was some sort of way to increase that social engagement it would be a win win for the college and for the student because going back the HEOP provided great support great emotional and academic support but I think for that social engagement with everybody else within the college and within your classmate was a little bit failing. Again I don’t know if there exists something that can create these environments and for that socialization to happen, but I think it’s important. Because then what you're going to have is people still staying in their own little groups you know, and you’ll only have a few that might be branching out and creating friendships outside and sort of creating that social dynamic, which I believe then would impact everything else. at least that’s... that would be some of the things that I would improve. looking at what kind of social opportunities are there for that engagement to happen. because the other thing with diversity is, anything that’s like you call it diversity only certain people will show up, which are the people that identify themselves as diverse for a reason or other. and so what happens then, even that group it’s the "diverse" group only, when it should actually be imbedded within the total community. I was actually for one of my last employers, I was one of the diversity recruitment. And we had a bunch of activities. And I’m like you know what it’s great that we're talking about diversity but the only people that are coming to this diversity talk are the African Americans or Latinos or women and I’m like where’s everybody else? were like preaching to the choir. So it’s like how do we make diversity so that at it becomes a natural to the backbone of the Skidmore experience, rather than just these pockets of activities that are happening. where then only people that are affected by some diversity issue attend, its like I said, it’s like you’re �9 preaching to the choir, amen hallelujah. you’re not doing it to the entire congregation. so I think it’s that. its embedding it through the whole Skidmore experience. EV: How do you do that? I mean that's a great question. [Laugh]. ER: That's another story. Okay I want to ask, what was your favorite class here? Do you remember? EV: Oh my god, so you know what? I remember what was my favorite class and I don't know if they do this but BU107... Let me go back. So I was a double major in business and government. And the first class that I had was BU107. I don't know if it's still the same curriculum, but you study... you select a group of people, you study a company, and then at the end of the semester you present a big presentation about that company’s sort of financials, marketing strategy, operation strategy and you present it in front of a panel. oh my god that presentation, I remember my legs were shaking like crazy because I wasn’t used to public speaking. and it stuck. I was so nervous I mean I can still feel... every time I think about it I can still feel my hands getting sweaty, my team... we [were] standing outside the room with our corporate attire and my legs are shaking oh my god I think I had the financial piece of it. oh man. so it was one of those classes, at least for me, coming from where I was coming from, where it’s like you either swim or drown kind of deal. so I don’t know if it’s my favorite but it’s definitely the one that I remember the most and I think about it and I’m like oh I can totally take back all these emotions that I was feeling at that moment. I remember that into today, my hands were sweaty my legs were shaking. it was in itself an experience to have. I think it was a good experience. it puts you out there in front of people that are evaluating you, and then I remember dreading oh my god they're going to have questions they're going to ask questions, what questions do they have? So I remember that class. ER: So is it one of those things that you appreciate more now... �10 EV: Yeah you definitely appreciate it more because I was like I’ve never spoken in front of anyone. and I definitely have brought out ideas or anything that I’ve studied out to the open and saying this is what I think and challenge it and never had the opportunity to be in that opportunity. It’s great it’s what you do in your everyday... I don’t want to say life but definitely in your job. you present your ideas and people want to challenge it and then you come back and say that’s great but let’s look at it this way. so I think it was a great stepping stone. I look at it with a lot of.... not reminiscing.... with a positive mindset. ER: That class is a big deal still. EV: It's still a big deal? Okay. ER: Oh, I know... I always see the groups together, they’re dressed up. It's one of the classes that I wished I experienced because it seems like such an experience, you learn so much. EV: It is, and you do. You're preparing for it. Every semester. it’s not like the last three days before the presentation. you’re studying the company, you’re looking things up. I remember my business case was Robert Mondavi wine, winery. Which back then was starting. Now I think it’s big but that was our study case, the Robert Mondavi company. And I remember that [laugh] and it was 24 years ago. So it was nice. It was nice. Let's see what other class I took... I took some government courses which was interesting. I took dance. I actually wanted to minor in dance, I took modern dance one and two, I took ballet one and two. And then I took an improvisational course, dance improvisation or something like that and we did a performance and my friend came out of that saying, "Yeah stick to business." [laugh]. They were good friends [laughs]. So I didn't take a dance class after that [laugh]. And I was like well that’s kind of mean and they were like yeah you know [laugh] stick to business and government for now, leave the dance. but it was great. I got to experience that. so yeah, I mean it was fun. it was fun doing the dance classes. �11 ER: That's so Skidmore, to take a random dance class. EV: Yeah [laugh]. I never took ceramics oh my god, that’s the one that I always wanted to take, and it just never quite made it into my schedule. My junior year I actually was not at Skidmore. That was a year that I spent away from Skidmore. Because first the fall of my junior year I went to American University and I did the semester there and I got an internship with senator Moynihan back then. That was awesome. that was an awesome experience. You probably don't know Senator Moynihan, but he was the Senator that we can refer back as coining the phrase, "You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts." Which is so true for today. He coined it so many years ago. He passed away, he was the senior senator for New York. And my job was simple as an intern there. I needed to open the letters that we get from his constituents and say okay this is related to education, this one is related to the environment, the highways, so sort of organize them in the buckets they belong. But it was just a great experience being on capitol hill and doing that and seeing him walking down the hall and you’re just like, “Wahh that’s Senator Moynihan.” ER: That's so cool. That was through Skidmore? EV: That was through Skidmore yeah. Skidmore participated in that American University program. It's mostly government courses and part of that program was to get an internship so that was my internship that I got there so it was great. Then my Spring semester I went to Spain through Skidmore study abroad program in Spain. And that was wonderful. When I'm telling you, it was an eye opener, it was amazing. I mean just the flight getting there, it’s like, wait we have to be more than four hours in the air plane? How is that possible? I remember we needed to get research... And I’m like it’s this many hours in the airplane it’s like a whole day! Yeah just it’s all that, it’s just great and the Skidmore program was so great because you not only took that culture immersion through the Skidmore program there but perhaps unlike other study abroad programs you got to take courses at the university. which was awesome. so you actually go to socialize with Spanish students there. so it wasn’t just you and your own little Skidmore �12 friends in the Skidmore center you actually went out there with the other students. you went to university classes like you would here. Your professors were Spanish professors. It was an amazing experience. That was great. That definitely opened my world. Definitely a defining moment of my Skidmore experience. It's an opportunity that a lot of perhaps college kids do not get through their campus and here it’s there pretty much for anyone who’s interested. I believe there’s GPA requirements but other than that the program (needs stability). That was great for anybody who wanted to participate in such things. For me it was definitely an eye opener. I don't think I... coming to Skidmore I didn't even know that existed, study abroad programs, I didn't know about that. Just coming here... If I tell you the reason why I chose Skidmore [laugh], it's actually a pretty funny one. It had nothing to do with rankings. Yu know a lot of people, I guess it's about the experience and peoples' backgrounds but... and I’m pretty sure my kids would do this... but... people put time and research in schools and visiting schools and what is their ranks and what career they're going to have and what are their majors, I wasn’t thinking like that. all my mom said was you need to go to college. I was like okay. that was the expectation in my family. and I remember I went to a college fair with my cousin, we were the same age, and there was a Skidmore table there and they said... so we went we were visiting tables and we ended up in the Skidmore table, and there where was people from the admissions office, there was this lady from the HEOP office, Michelle Dupree, I don’t think she’s... She’s no longer with Skidmore but she was definitely into getting me here. so, they were putting out a flyer of a one weekend program at Skidmore. they would pick you up at 42nd street, bring you up from New York City for the weekend. you get to get mini classes, they give you housing and food while you were here. So, I looked at my cousin and was like oh let’s go there. and they mentioned a party and I’m like, "Oh a party? are boys going to be there? yeah okay fine great sign me up. and its free and you come pick me up and you bring me back?" so me and my cousin signed up, thinking it’s a party there’s going to be boys, we were 17 years old right, so I come here... First of all, the drive was beautiful because it was in the fall. And you get one of the current students to host you, so you get to go to their dormitory and stay with them, we had sleeping bags. But guess what? Those rooms are huge for two people. So I remember asking my host, the current student, I’m like " Wait this entire room is for two people? With this �13 big closet? I mean we're five in my family and we all were sharing one room. And it's like, sign me up, where do I come here? I get my own closet [laugh]. Not the rankings, not the major, I was just like what I get my own room my own closet! It's all about the people coming in and what are their backgrounds and experiences. But now I know better and for my kids they’re going to be looking at rankings and what the school has to offer... how many of the students get jobs after graduation. that’s one of the important metrics. but for me it wasn’t like that. all I knew was that I needed to go to college and all I knew was I lived in a crammed apartment with five of us sharing a tiny room and one closet and it was amazing when I came here, and I was like wow just one closet for me I don’t have to share with nobody? This bedroom just me with one other person? So yeah it was definitely an experience. There you go that's how I chose Skidmore. Skidmore chose me too. Because I think it was luck of the draw me going to that table. It was definitely... probably one of the luckiest days of my life when I ended up saying, "okay fine, sign me up." They had a nice party and I'm like "Oh it’s going to be like this all the time." Nah. [Laugh]. I wouldn’t call Skidmore a party school. I don’t think so. Not at least in my experience. But maybe for other people it was that. My 4 years here, I think they were that. They definitely took me out of my comfort zone, which at the time that you're going through it you don’t see all the good things. But definitely after I graduated it was like "Oh my god that was the best thing that happened." All the opportunities that I got, all the experiences that I was able to take advantage of and pursue, definitely makes me a better person today and a more worldly person with a more worldly view of what I think, what my opinions are and what I think does matter, and how can you sort of have an impact to improve things and others. ER: Thank you so much this has been really really great. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily, '18 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Vasquez, Evelyn Yesenia Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Evelyn Yesenia Vaszquez, '98 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1 June 2018 Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Emily Rizzo, '18 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6f601da325c53c4807cfa75b5ead75e5.jpg 653268a7c4eca6bc7088db2d16fbaaec https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d9649161ded7395b963578a5047412ef.m4a 92a3ecfebe2e75423552e3fc8d0175af https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9a6b78c72f22d934d5346ed9d85b0b23.pdf 26758711ce848bfa6279c6da13abad1d PDF Text Text 1 Hess Interview with Gregory Hess by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Saratoga Memory Project, Skidmore College, NY June 1st, 2018 Harry Sultan: So we're all set to get started. If I could just have you introduce yourself. Gregory Hess: Sure. My name's Gregory Hess, or Greg, and I'm from the class of '78. HS: And uh what did you major in when you were at Skidmore? GH: I had a double major in biology and in chemistry and then a minor in business. HS: What is it like to come back to this campus that you graduated from all those years ago. GH: It's a little odd in that it reminds you of how old you are. I can't believe I graduated forty years ago from Skidmore and I think most people my age all say the same thing that when we look in the mirror, we imagine someone in their twenties or in their thirties but can't imagine someone in their sixties. That usually strikes me when I come back to campus. And the other part is that it's grown tremendously and it's still very vibrant which is great. HS: Is this your first time back? GH: No, I've been back several times. HS: And is it different every time you come back? GH: I would say so, you know it continues to grow. I mean literally there are new buildings, things are being renovated. I was back just giving a small lecture to one of the classes about a month ago and I'd been back for a number of occasions, so I always see change which is part of Skidmore's motto HS: And walking around on campus, is there any spot that you see that brings you immediately back to when you were a student? GH: Um, you know probably the dining hall. It's much nicer now in terms of when we were here physically. Although I have to say at the time, Skidmore food was still pretty renowned in the northeast as one of the better places to go to college and have a good meal. But it's much more upscale now. HS: What does it feel to see the dining hall as it is now and remember what it was like back then? GH: You know, very positive. Great experiences there, shoot the breeze about what had happened during the day and what was coming up. So it's just a great place to socialize. And the food, again, was pretty good so you can't complain. But now you look around and they have all the food stations and �2 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: a lot of different options and variety and you realize the school has changed but I think for the better. And outside of chemistry and biology and science classes, what other types of classes did you take at Skidmore. Probably the most odd one in a way was, I took ballet when I was here. That's the type of thing that I of course didn't anticipate when I first came to Skidmore What was it like to take a ballet class? It was very funny at first. You may know the history, but when I was here, Melissa Hayden was a prima ballerina for the New York City Ballet and was very very well known. And it was shortly after she left that position that Skidmore was able to recruit her which was considered quite a coup at the time and I had no familiarity with ballet at all - I'm not even sure if I had ever seen a ballet. So we were starting the Skidmore Hockey Club and after one of our later night practices had ended, we all sort of barged into one of the faculty get togethers that was going on to see if we could scarf down the last appetizers and things that were still there. So uh - they were fine about it - you know it had dwindled down to a small crowd and I started talking to this one woman, you know, more interested in the hors d’oeuvres than chatting, but I was trying just to be social. And so as I started asking her questions, things along the lines of "oh are you a faculty member here, or are you the wives of one of the faculty?". She said "no I teach here" and started telling me more - someone later said, you know thats Melissa Hayden, the prima ballerina of New York City - and part of our conversation when I said I was teaching skiing up the road at West Mountain and Gore and on the hockey team, she was explaining to me how athletic it is to be a ballet dancer and so I was really more just kidding I said, 'yea that'd be great to take ballet, yea.' So next thing you know I got in those days we didn't really have email - I think I got a note in the mail from the registrar saying 'you're failing phys-ed something-or-other' and I'm not sure how it happened, but apparently she signed me up for ballet. So she wouldn't let me out without trying at least a couple of classes, so that's how I got into ballet. And do you think it helped you in skiing and hockey? It really did, I was amazing at how much strength it took to do that. You know, I was a horrible dancer, but it was a great activity for me. And I must say, it helped me get into medical school eventually which is one of my primary professions. She wrote me a great recommendation, and when I was being interviewed in fact, they remarked on it. That they were �3 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: interested in diversity and were pleased to see that I took something out of just science and biology. And so you took a lot of science, biology, dance; outside of academics what sort of things did you do? I was fortunate that Skidmore gave me a great deal of financial aid to come here but at the same time when I came - so I'll put it in context, I was a bit overwhelmed by the ratio of men to women so I think as part of that and also though still having a lot of financial need, I ended up getting a job bartending downtown, that was when the drinking age was still eighteen in New York - and I was actually seventeen when I first came here but they didn't think to ask for an ID, my birthday is late October. So I ended up bartending at a number of places in town and waiting tables and that gave me another dimension. A lot of the Skidmore students would come there but a lot of friends who were quote townies as we referred to them at the time, but you know, great people. And then I had a lot of friends that I developed, again, from teaching skiing, so that was a great experience to have sort of a foot in the Skidmore Saratoga Springs environment and also at the ski centers. So what was it like, maybe not having two separate lives, but two separate social scenes, one on campus with Skidmore students and one downtown with the locals. It really was the best of both worlds. Because I bartended downtown and Skidmore was about 2,000 students at the time - fairly similar to today you get to at least know by recognition, if not name, most of the students. And the bars I was a bartender in were extremely popular at the time, so you know a ton of students would come up and I'd know them, and we'd chit-chat briefly. So it was a great way to see the students and at the same time I did a number of things with the folks from town. In fact there was one group of guys that were recent grads from other colleges who had just migrated here to have jobs and they were in their early 20s and were quite a cast of characters. So they actually got written up in the New York Times as an example called the TI's which stood for 'terminally immature'. And you know, they had their pros and cons but they were largely hysterical guys in many aspects, and it was great had a great group of guy friends that gave me, again, another dimension. But had a lot of great guy friends on campus too. So you said you were part of the hockey club? I was. I was one of the founding members, yep. And is that the same hockey club that's around today. �Hess 4 GH: It is. I think it's morphed into, if I understand right, into division three hockey here. So yea, at the time ya know, it was a great experience. I grew up in the time when we were still influenced by John Kennedy in the sixties and even in the Vietnam days in the seventies when people said, 'ya know, we can make things happen'. So I think at Skidmore at the time, part of the reason they made it clear that they were - if you would - sort of recruiting me, and they were great in the admissions process, made it clear that they would value me coming here, and made it possible for me to come here was they were looking for men to help really create the co-educational environment and that included things like starting sports. Cause when I came here there was soccer and that was the only sport. So they encouraged us to start clubs so we did with the hockey team. You know, we went to the phys-ed head and said, 'ya know, we wanna do this' and one of the Kennedy sayings I liked at the time was, 'if not us, then who. And if not now, then when?". So we started a lot of things like that. We also started the baseball team and it was just a bunch of guys that got together and it was great. And we actually had women on our hockey team by the way, that time we had so few guys we had two women who had come from some of the New England prep schools and we were actually quite good which I think surprised some of the clubs that showed up to play us from Union and Hamilton and other groups. HS: Did you play hockey and baseball in high school or did you start just for the sake of starting a team. GH: Almost really for the sake of starting the team. Mostly I played a lot of hockey, pond hockey as we would call it, so it was pretty familiar to me that way. I didn't play baseball in school, I did play soccer and tennis and periodically I played one year on the tennis team here, and played on the soccer team three or maybe four years here. HS: Are there any special memories from starting the club, I mean what was it like being the founder of something that is now something so big in Skidmore culture? GH: You know it was just a ton of fun. I was just, to be clear, I was one of a number of guys that got together and founded it but I would say one of the things I think about is because ice time is cheapest late at night or early in the morning, we were last on the peg. We played on a rink down on East Avenue or just off it if I remember, and really it was an outdoor rink that they just had enclosed it in wood. It was pretty rustic. So we would get really hot and sweaty playing through the periods and when we were sitting on the benches because it wasn't a fancy arena and pretty cold it was very common that many times after sitting out for the period you'd get up and �5 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: you'd realize there were icicles hanging off your hair literally. And we'd be breaking them off. And there was no locker room, we'd change up here and go down. And it was just a lot of fun, a lot of great contact. I ended up playing goalie, was one of the funnier things that happened at one point because our goalie, if I remember right, got his wrist broken or sprained in a slap-shot and no one else wanted to be goalie and it was something like I stepped out for a second and came back and they said, 'great, we just elected you our new goalie'. And I was horrible. And no surprise I think my nickname was a sieve which was very appropriate. And so did this all happen during your freshman year that you started the club? Ya know, I really don't remember. I think it was probably more my sophomore year or junior maybe. And do you remember your first night at Skidmore? I don't remember my first night, I do remember my first day. Vividly. Could you talk about that? Sure. The first class I walked into was an english seminar class in Case Center at the time, so those were relatively small rooms. And it was an oval, or oblong table, sat maybe twelve-to-fourteen people. And when I walked in I realized, and we sat down, we were waiting for the teacher who was a bit late, and we're all sitting there in silence, no one really knew each other and everybody was feeling a little awkward. I realized there were two guys and there were twelve women. And I was like, 'oh my god, what have I got myself into'. I don't think I'd even had thought to ask really what's the ratio before I came here, so at first that was really overwhelming. The other thing I remember though is my roommate who was very very quiet. We had nothing to do, we were just sitting in our room so I said 'come on, let's just go out and take a walk around'. So we were walking around, and most people as well I think were feeling pretty awkward so you know, you'd walk towards someone, and they'd look up and we just started saying hello, and most people would say hello back, and that was great, we were getting the reaction you'd anticipate and hope for. And then we came upon one person and, it was a woman, and I remember we both said, ya know, 'hi, how are you' and we got no response and we were a little puzzled and put off and they walked another ten feet past us and we both looked at each other and he turned around and said 'what's your problem?' So we got still no response, but I still remember that cause my roommate just cracked me up. Did you ever find out who she was? I didn't. I didn't. Mystery, yea that's right. �Hess 6 HS: And what was the adjustment like being that there was so few men at the time going into this recently co-ed school. GH: You know, at first for me it really was overwhelming. I was I think relatively shy at that time and hadn't had a serious girlfriend in high school et cetera, so I'm not sure but I think all that combined and the lack of sports, there wasn't even a locker room for men there wasn't a male dorm on campus, there was a floor on the 7th story of the tall dorm here. And in fact we used to call it heaven on the seventh floor. Ya know it was overwhelming. So I actually transferred, or actually applied to transfer out but by the time I was accepted and then gotten the acceptance in the spring, I had made enough good friends and kind of adjusted to the amount of women that were here, and a lot became good friends of mine. You know I love the place and decided to stay. HS: Was there one thing in particular that made you flip that switch to loving Skidmore? GH: I don't think there was one thing. I think there was that combination. I mean among other things, I guess a specific example I was accepted at Cornell for transfer, and they had two electron microscopes. And in Skidmore we still have - I think it might even be the same one, it's probably a newer one than when I was here. But that was pretty amazing that a school of 2,000 people had an electron microscope worth at that time hundreds of thousands if not more than that dollars. And yet I could go in and use it almost virtually any time so that was great and it really was a great learning experience. But I went to Cornell and they had two and I thought 'oh that's great' and I mention it to one of the people almost as a question of how to get access to it. And they said, 'well undergrads really don't get access to that, you know once you're a grad student you might get access to it but you have to be on a waiting list and there's only so much time'. So I started to realize things like the professors here were primarily dedicated to teaching and not so much research and Cornell as I started to really look at it, you were taught more often by grad students who were really teachers assistants and the professors were really more interested in publishing, in research, in grants, in really not teaching. So things like that really made a difference for me. Here, the students, the night life downtown was just hysterical, it was great. HS: Were there any teachers that stick out in your mind as really helping you move on throughout college and what you ended up doing afterward? GH: Ya know, there were a lot. I still remember Bob Mahoney was head of I think biology, and head of the department. And then Roy Myers at the time was here. And they were great, fully accessible. At the time I was not your �7 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: typical student by any stretch and they put up with me and were encouraging and they were great. Why weren't you the typical student? Well I think probably one of the examples was I worked two-to-three jobs when I was here because I had to make ends meet. As part of that, when I graduated from Skidmore I had a pretty high GPA fortunately and had a pretty rigorous schedule with the double major and a minor and so on. So the logical thing to do was to apply to medical school. And at the time it was pretty competitive at the time to get in, I think it was roughly twelve applicants for every one acceptance so they had said, 'ya know where are you applying' and I said 'I'm not applying, I've always wanted to see how good a skier I could be, so I'm going to go out in Colorado and teach skiing and race full time and see what I can do'. And ya know so I think most of the people would shake their head and in fact one of the faculty members said 'you'll never get into medical school'. And ya know Roy and Bob Mahoney said, 'look, totally get it and ya know it's a bit of a risk, but you need to do what you think's best and ya know, go for it' Were your friends at Skidmore also naysaying? Oh no I think they were all, they said 'great, go for it' and were they all also in the same, bio-chem sphere or from sports, or ballet? Ya know, it was such a small campus of 2,000-or-so and only I think about 200-or-so guy, actually when I left it was maybe like 300. I think I had friends across the different environments. There were only I think twelve biology/chemistry majors at the time on campus and I think almost all of them were women, probably statistically. So I had friends who were taking english studies and all sorts of other things, so it was a pretty diverse group. For example, my roommate who only stayed a semester was in fine arts and became a fine arts painter, ya know still makes his living today in Connecticut and has had a lot of very high priced paintings that he's done that've been accepted, but he decided after six months he really just wanted to paint, but still we've stayed in touch and he's a great guy. So what was your average week like between classes and skiing and hockey and two jobs? One of the things I learned was I actually do better on almost all measure for me, including happiness and certainly academics, when I was scheduled. So I'd say during the busiest parts of the year which was winter for me, I would typically have a pretty full day of class because science classes start early in the morning with labs and things and when I finished up with them, a typical, I'd play a sport so say, we'll say late in the season �8 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: maybe before winter, we'd still have soccer that'd be four to five-thirty. By the time we got up to the dining room it was about ready to close, we'd all pile in and eat dinner quickly and then I'd go to the library from six to ten I think was my routine and just really study and then, again the drinking age was eighteen, to reward ourselves, we'd hop in the car and zip downtown for a beer at Tin and Lint or Harold J which was a big bar then. Barclays was pretty big later on. So we'd have a beer, back in bed by 11, go to sleep around 11:30 or so, wake up and do it all over again. And what was your typical nightlife on the weekend? The weekends for me was pretty much when I bartended and waited tables so for me the busiest weekend would be - and some weekends I just played, but mostly I was working - when I was working at the restaurant after class, I'd be there at 4 to set up. I'd wait tables from 4 to 10 and then I'd get out of there and I'd go to one of the bars and then I'd bartend at Harold J's from about 10:30, 11, till about 4 A.M. when they closed and then I'd get back, maybe take a quick nap, shower then I'd go up to West Mountain, teach skiing Saturday and then I'd come back, usually wasn't waiting tables and I'd go back and bar tend again from 11 till 4AM. And then Sunday I'd sleep in. That's a schedule. It was, it was, but when you're young you know, you can do it. Did you do that all four years? Pretty much, you know it changed a little here and there over the years but I pretty much had two or sometimes three jobs, part time, just piecing them together. And do you feel like you were able to learn in your jobs to help academically or things academically to help your jobs at all? Ya know I think so in a bit because it taught you the basics like show up on time, ya know, be responsible, fundamentally do the right thing. So I think so, ya know Skidmore really I thought was a highly ethical place, for a better term, people were trying to do the right thing. Did you study abroad? I didn't. What made you choose to stay on campus? I don't think they had many abroad programs at the time. And my academic schedule was so packed that I don't think, if I remember right, it would have really worked for me to go abroad to get the biology/chemistry requirements and the business requirements that I had I didn't have many electives open. And did you have one go-to best friend? �Hess 9 GH: Ya know, it probably changed, well it did change a bit over time. The first was my head resident a guy named Allan Braunstein, so one of the earliest guys. And he was a great guy and he was classic open door policy so his apartment, the head resident apartment of course was pretty big and it was like Grand Central Station, so he was a great guy and later his brother actually transferred in from BU or BC, I can't recall, and he became a good friend too, Ron Braunstein. HS: What made you so close to these guys? GH: Ron and I played hockey together, just in general they were involved and organizers. Allan Braunstein being a head resident organized everything; we had a water festival at the time, I'm not sure if it still goes on. He was a big skier. We actually had a ski rope tow when I came in fact. So we would take a few quick runs down there, it was pretty small but we would ski over there. And we were just involved in all the antics like going downtown was again a big part of campus life here. Thursday night was one of the more interesting nights, you would go down to a bar that, if I understand right was the one portrayed in Animal House where they showed the guys in the road trip and go into this bar with a couple of girls from a college. Well the guys are coming supposedly from Dartmouth in real life and it's Skidmore girls that they meet up with and the bar that they go into used to be called the Golden Grill and it was a predominately blacks or African Americans during the week if you would. And Thursday night for some reason at midnight - I think the cover became free or they had some beer special that at midnight it would all change, so all the Skidmore people would pour in, which at that time was predominately pretty homogenous white, Caucasian class. And it got to be the point that the bartenders that the Golden Grill - we used to call it the Golden Griddle - would call it white night. And looking back it was probably politically incorrect but it was literally as much as you saw in Animal House. You saw lots of town people who were not Skidmore people dancing with Skidmore girls there were African American guys with white upper middle class Skidmore girls, and it was hysterical, everyone was relaxed and had a lot of fun. HS: And this was an every Thursday night thing? GH: Pretty much. I might have the night wrong at this point but I think so. Tuesday night was Tin and Lint, ten cent or nickel beers; hard to look back on that. Wednesday night, I can't remember what that was. But Thursday night I'm pretty sure was Golden Grill white night and it would just go on from there. HS: And so as you went through the years was there anything you wished you did differently? �Hess 10 GH: I wish I'd spent more time getting to know other people better. You know we were all busy and as I mentioned my schedule kept me pretty busy but I remember feeling a little uneasy about coming back to reunion and thinking 'what was it going to be like' and 'how many old friends will show up'. And some friends show up and that's great, but what I've found out at one of the early reunions was that I actually met people from my class that I barely knew. And I might have known their face but almost didn't know their name or might have known their name, and when I had a chance to finally sit down and talk with them, no surprise they're great people; really smart, really kind, great people. And I thought, 'man I wish I got to know them when I was in college'. HS: And as you were approaching graduation, did you and your friends feel optimistic about post graduation, post college world? GH: I think there was probably both, but I think in a way, for me, I was pretty optimistic. I think we were so dumb we didn't know what we don't know. So I think we felt pretty much like, 'look, we got a great education behind us, we're healthy, we've got the ability and the tools to go out and really do something'. I wasn't quite sure what it was going to be, I didn't know at the time that I would apply to medical school, I didn't do that until years after I came back and worked in admissions so I really didn't know how things were going to turn out but I think I felt optimistic overall. HS: What was it like being on the other side of Skidmore, going from a student to an employee? GH: It was great, it really was great. It was like working at a country club in a way I realized one day, in that I was just a few years older, I came back after I had ski'd for a few years and had one other job. It was still the same dean who had accepted me and she said, 'look, you really know Skidmore, you'll be a great asset et cetera' and I remember the time, because I was so naive that I probably shouldn’t have said this but at the time there were rumors that Skidmore was lowering its standards for men because they wanted to get co-educational more quickly. So I think it was probably inappropriate in the interview me saying, 'I want to be clear though, I'm not gonna accept students if I read their folders, or recommend acceptance, for students who are sub par'. And I was so refreshed, she said, 'no, we are holding men to the exact same standard as women, and we're in this for the long haul and we want to build a thriving long term campus'. So being on the other side of the coin was refreshing in kind of the same sort of ethical environment from professors in doing the right thing and students as well and the same thing I saw in the administration. And you know they weren't �11 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: perfect, none of us are perfect, but they really had their hearts in the right place. So what is it like now seeing that there are 2500 kids up from 2000, it's a 60/40 split, how does that feel looking back from where you're coming from? It does feel great in many ways. I mean we had some special experiences that can't be repeated because it was the time, someone, sometimes it was the ratio that made certain things, I don't think would happen anymore in a positive way. But I think looking now, change is right the only constant in life, and Skidmore has changed for the better. It's academically stronger than when I was here - even though it was a strong school. It's got many many more sports, it's hopefully better endowed, its got tremendous facilities, I think it's got a great vision. SO I'm proud, it's a great college, and I'm very glad I came here and it gave me the tools to be a constant student so thats probably the best tools that it gave me, to be a constant student. That's what I see when I come here, is that students are learning how to learn and be a lifelong student. And if you meet someone today that is thinking about going to Skidmore, what would you tell them? Yea I would certainly recommend it. In fact I've got a daughter in high school, I don't know where she'll go, it'll be her decision, but yea I used to be an interviewer, an alumni interviewer. I think for the right person it's a great school. I think the question a number of people get is, 'what can you do with a liberal arts education?', and my view is the reciprocal, almost what can't you do with a liberal arts education? When you think about, I think it's not so important what you come out of Skidmore with in terms of your degree, but I think if it teaches you to be that constant constructive, inquisitive person to realize that learning doesn't end when you leave your undergrad or even your grad degree, goes on forever. I'm not sure if that was a hyperbole for that example, but I think Skidmore really instilled in me, I have three degrees, two masters and a doctorate and that's partly how I'm hardwired but Skidmore really encouraged me to keep learning. I think I did three or four, four fellowships after that and ya know I think I'll continue to go on learning until they put me in the ground. What are those degrees in? I'm a physician so I have an M.D., and then I have a masters in Health Care Services Research which is kind of a combination of how health care systems work; epidemiology, statistics. And then I have an MBA from Wharton in Health Economics. �Hess 12 HS: And when you were a freshmen did you ever imagine yourself where you are now? GH: Not at all. In fact I really thought seriously about being a full time bartender forever. It seemed liked a great lifestyle and in fact one of the guys from town I worked with who was ancient at the time - he was in his thirties basically said, 'do this for life, it's great. When I go home, I go home' There were a lot of plusses, so I had no idea where I was going to head. HS: Do you have any anecdotes about a time that the liberal arts mentality directly affected how you thought about something that came up while you were getting your masters degree or in your career that had you not had the liberal arts education you would not have been able to approach the same way? GH: Ya know I'm not sure if this is directly on point with kind of your question but ya know maybe. And maybe it's a bit in the way I'm hardwired, but I think Skidmore encouraged or allowed that. So maybe a good example is when I left Skidmore, although I wasn't happy 100% of the time with everything that happened here I really thought my money was well spent, their money was well spent, they gave me a great education, faculty were dedicated to us and teaching was the primary role of the instructors and professors. And when I went to medical school years later which was a lot more expensive and presumably a lot more competitive I really had high expectations that this is going to be the best experience I've ever had. And I would say that I was almost aghast at how poorly I thought the educational system was in medical school. So I guess my point is, it lead me to do two things that were pretty unusual even for my medical school classmates at the time. One was I got a grant from the American Medical Association that allowed me to do almost any constructive project over the summer between my first and second year and I wrote a literature-based review on teaching principles and teaching techniques and I even talked to some of the teachers here, but I wrote a pretty constructive but scathing review of how the medical school educational system was set up and why it was so dysfunctional and why it was a poor set up for teaching our future physicians and the school did not like it to say the least. They literally stuck it in a drawer.When I went to the office to see, and I asked the dean if he had read it and he said, 'yes i did', he pulled out a drawer, showed me the paper and said, 'and this is where it's going to stay'. So I think in part it in encouraged me to constructively question things and not just to complain but to propose constructive solutions and in fact thats what I did, I think, in that review. I think the other thing it did to do was to be a little non conventional, so in medical school I felt the school was so poor in terms of �13 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: its instruction it was mostly just memorization that I actually got a job full time again, but I got a job as a financial planner and I would pretty much not attend class at medical school for the first two years because it was just memorization and I would go off and do my job, go home at night and memorize the text and come back and take my tests and progress on. Really until your third year when you're seeing patients, yea you could be taking it anywhere. So I think if it wasn't for Skidmore, I'm not sure where I would have really had the confidence to do that. And if you could go back and tell yourself as a freshmen one word of advice, what would it be? Enjoy And did you have any regrets? Other than not meeting more people? Other than that, really not, I think I was one of those really fortunate kids in college that at the time there were some college colleagues who really weren't happy they were just marking their time ya know handing in their homework, their parents sent them here, they felt like they needed to get a degree and ya know they really were just marking time. But now I think I was one of those fortunate, probably the majority who said, 'you kidding? this is incredibly great, I've got a place to sleep every night, I've got great food, I've got a job, I've got lots of friends, I mean what could be better.' It was a great environment I would say 95% of the time. It felt like we were living the dream. And looking back is there anything you're happy has remained the same at Skidmore from then all the way until now? Since I'm not here day-to-day it's a little hard to say yes, for sure, but I get the same spirit of the college is really dedicated to the students and I think that's the primary way it should be. I'm a senior fellow at Penn, I'm the faculty there, I'm a faculty at Drexel College of Medicine and I've been to many institutions for the degrees as I've mentioned, so I've seen other colleges first hand and they don't all operate that way. So I'm really impressed that Skidmore, again, I think is really focused on the students and I think that it's primary mission and how it should be. What about the opposite, is there anything that you wish was not still around? No I don't think there's much I could add? So maybe to wrap up if there's just any last stories that you want to share about something that happened at Skidmore or something that happened downtown? Well you know, there were a lot of fun times that we put it in context because most of the students here were studying hard and doing �Hess 14 academically well but there's no question that we had a social life, um so I guess one of the funnier times I do remember was that when spring vacation would roll around, it was a big deal everybody wanted to take off and either go to Florida or go someplace else to get some sun, it's a pretty cold winter up here, lots of snow. So given that whole feverish environment you'd see on probably a barely 50 degree day with the sun out there would be girls in their bathing suits and guys in their bathing suits behind the dorm, I can't remember the name of the dorm, but trying to lay down on the ground so the wind wouldn't freeze them to death trying to get some base tan before they went to Florida. And then it was usually right before the spring break but it was also for the kids who couldn't afford to go on spring break or just couldn't logistically, we would have these unbelievable beach parties downtown. So the one I remember probably the best was at a bar that's not there anymore called Barclays, it was an old bank that's not a store downtown. And myself and some of the other employees there went out to the dump - the illustrious dump - and we got a bathtub and we found a plug at the hardware store, put it in the bathtub. And a lot of the places had a cover charge at the time and that night cover charge was you brought in liquor and we put in sour mix and some liquor but everybody who came into the door would poor their liquor into the bathtub and of course the concoction got more and more odd and more and more potent as the night wore on. So - and you had to come in beach attire - at the end of the night, it had a very high bar because it was the teller spots, and on top of that bar just spontaneously people put on of the bar stools and people eventually began climbing on top of the bar stool, standing on top of that so you were a good 15 to 20 feet and fortunately with the right crowd, and the right music, the DJ, the people were doing Acapulco bar diving where they would dive off the bar stool into the crowd - people knew you were coming - and people would hopefully catch you before you hit the ground. So it was just a hysterical, between the bathtub concoction and the Acapulco bar diving, it was just one of those parties you just shook your head at and said, you know this will just never be recreated. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sultan, Harry Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hess, Greg, '78 Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Greg Hess, '78 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sultan, Harry, 17 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng,) Description An account of the resource Hess, a double major in chemistry and biology, and minor in business, describes how he came to take ballet classes and starting the Skidmore Hockey Club. He also worked as a ski instructor at West Mountain and Gore. Hess recalls that the letter of recommendation from his ballet instructor, former New York City Ballet prima ballerina Melissa Hayden, helped him get into medical school. Working in downtown Saratoga Springs as a bartender gave him a different perspective on his education. As one of the college's early male students, he understood his role was to help "create the co-educational environment and that included starting things like sports." For Hess, this was part of growing up in the 60s and 70s, with the influence of John F. Kennedy, the Vietnam War and 'making a difference.' Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording alumni ballet hockey team Melissa Hayden oral history sciences Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3aff948070e5ec89a96f823efb4a0bec.jpg dc5224e6215ae7a0cccf896c560e38ee https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c4cf925ee4b65fdec31f5dd5439dd4f6.m4a 217f5d3ac941f72d96b6ff1e87e70336 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bill Ladd Interview https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1a9bb39223da7c413d7200ee47dee61d.pdf d23b0809cfbedf3ce7a4650ec81f5ae3 PDF Text Text Ladd 1 Interview with Bill Ladd by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Saratoga Memory Project, Skidmore College, NY June 1st, 2018 Harry Sultan: Who are you? Bill Ladd: Better question. Like, why don't we try... you know, I have so many stories, just you need to be more direct. HS: Okay, let's just start, if you could introduce yourself. BL: Sure, my name is BIll Ladd, I'm class of '83 and I am a trustee on Skidmore's Board of Trustees. HS: Where are you from? BL: I'm originally from Wayne, Maine, 04284. And I live in, currently, Framingham Massachusetts. HS: What does it feel like to be back at Skidmore? BL: I'm here a lot. I love it, um I was just here two weeks ago for the trustees meeting and commencement but this is nice because I'm with my classmates. And it's a great, we've just have always had a great class. So I love seeing not only my classmates but also the people I encountered my six years on the alumni board as chair of reunions so I would come every year and meet - oh, and I also called every single alum who had a reunion, and that's 29,000 people and I started with my 8th grade teacher Mrs. Jane Chilcott. HS: Even if you come back so often, is there one thing you look forward particularly for coming back to Skidmore? BL: Well first of all, the campus is georgious; but it's always the people, because the people make the college. And from every spectrum of groundskeeping, - they call it campus safety now, but for me it'll always be campus security - to everybody, it's just a great place to be. I mean literally, it changed my life, and I owe Skidmore my life. It's always great. HS: Was there one specific moment at Skidmore that you felt like was really pivotal in changing your life? �Ladd 2 BL: There are so many. Skidmore; I just had breakfast with a couple of my professors and they always raised the bar just a little bit higher than I ever could touch. And they brooked none of my charms which - I can be pretty charming - but um, and I owe them that, because they always taught me to do my very best and in fact, the late and great Phyllis Roth used to say, "is this your very best work?" and I'd have to roll my eyes and just "ugggggh no". And she'd say, "okay, you have until 5 o'clock to make it better", and I'm like 'okay'. And that has lasted me all my life. HS: What kind of classes were you taking with these great professors? BL: Um English, Psychology, History - Tudor History. I just saw my professor, Pat Lee, and literally she's just phenomenal. Susan Cress, um Joanna San Grando, of course I was a theater major so I would say Caroline Anderson, you know instilled in me, real pre-professional standards and yea, I will always be in debt to them. HS: So what was your average week like? BL: (laughs) Psychotic. As a theater major we were just happy to see the sun, cause we were always - if you weren't in class, you were in rehearsal, or getting ready for rehearsal or in performance and it was just non stop, so. There's a story of my senior year, I was just running like a gerbil on a treadmill and I get this letter from Academic Advising and I though 'oh noooo'. And I'm standing there in Case Center staring at Ladd Hall which was named for my grandparents and I'm thinking, 'how do I tell my grandparents I'm getting kicked out my senior year?'. So I sucked it up and I opened it and it said, 'congratulations, you've made dean's list' and I'm like 'get out of here, that can't happen'. And I went up to Academic Advising, and they said 'no, here're your grades' and I'm like, 'how did that happen? I don't know'. So that was a good moment too. HS: So is there any feeling, explain what it must feel like to go back into that place where you spent so much time as a student and know that after all those years you made Dean's List. �Ladd 3 BL: Yea, you know I never thought of myself as a good student. But it was just, every corridor has a memory and I think about how I grew as a person, my classmates, both who are here and not here anymore and just like, I never saw myself as a trustee, and here I am a third generation trustee which is kind of weird; it's kind of like getting kicked up to the grownups table at thanksgiving. You're there and you're like, 'am I really supposed to be here?' but the answer is yes, I am. But it's a really humbling feeling because I served the college and the students and I have the kids, I meet as many kids as I can and I ask them to call me either Bill or Uncle Bill but if you call me Mr. Ladd, I'll slap the taste out of your mouth. C'mon, let's get away from that because when you have your name on a couple of buildings people can get kind of freaked, so I'm like, 'everybody breathe. And unclench. All is well'. I'm just paying it forward. HS: And when you walk around campus all these times you've come back, is there one place that really evokes-- BL: There're so many. Kimball, my freshman dorm and the pantheon of champions, is always wonderful. It's, I just take the time, you know when I drive up onto campus, especially as a trustee they don't allow you to have a whole lot of free time so I just look and take it all in, the green, the quad, it's definitely georgious. I think about, we used to always have to perform in the field house, course now you have a theater - not that I'm bitter - but I spend so much time in Colton House where Alumni Affairs is, and in North Hall where Advancement is and it's just, you know, I'm really honored to be able to come back in the capacity that I am and be the leader that I am, which is something I'm always trying to work with. HS: Do you remember your first night in Kimbal? BL: I do. When I pulled up in my orange Volkswagon Rabbit diesel. The first two people I saw were Jim van Law and Mark Venter and I remember going and meeting my roommate for the very first time who, spoiler alert, teaches here now - Peter McCarthy. Country mouse, city mouse, it was kind of like that. And it was just, yea, we all just kind of gathered and went to the dining hall, which is �Ladd 4 lightyears in difference from the palace that you have now. I don't want to hear nobody complain about no food cause it was not like that back in the day. And we just all coalesced. HS: And did you ever for a second think, as a freshmen back then that this is where you'd be now. BL: (laughs) Oh sure! Not hardly, are you kidding? I was just happy to graduate and then it was like, you know, it was just not even on my radar. Just wasn't. HS: And so other than some theater classes and some english classes, what other activities did you take part in? BL: Do you know anything about being a theater major? Hello? It's um, I remember all the movies on campus, you know they had a lot of horror pictures back in the day like when a stranger calls and the tag line is - the original, not the horrible remake - it's, 'have you checked the children' and so what we would do is, after the movie, we would wait about an hour and then we had extension phones in each of the suites around campus and we would call ya know, Penfield which is an all female dorm and somebody would pick up the phone and we'd say, 'have you checked the children', and you'd hear screaming, and we were like "yes, yes! Good stuff!", we'd get really immature stuff like that which I'm very - I wear with a badge of pride. Dressing up as Frankenfurter for Rocky Horror Picture Show, um it was just a lot of work in theater and going downtown, I wasn't really a bar guy because we didn't have time. You know? But we did go to the Exec which had amazing steak fries, that's where the theater crowd hung out. We went to the rafters - disco, woot woot - good stuff. Yea, but it was wonderful, and we get to talk about these situations with our classmates who are here at reunion which is nice. HS: Did you study abroad? BL: No I did not. I couldn't figure that out in my head; how I could do that and then come back in and get plugged in for the spring shows, if you had left in fall. My son did, he figured that out, but I did not. So, but I lived abroad, it was okay. �Ladd 5 HS: So what was your senior year like, wrapping things up did you have a senior project or senior performance? BL: It was a play, it was you know, coming to grips with, well what're we going to do after graduation and during my - in 1980, I did my first movie while I was still a student here. And back in the day, in the theater department movies were looked down upon - it's all about the theater - well I like movies, I like TV, so just trying to figure out what my next steps were but also, when I graduated I was there with like my dad who was a trustee, my grandmother who was the very first alum to be a trustee and I'm thinking, 'okay'. And of course my amazing class, and it was just trying to be able to put those pieces together and, but I'll tell ya that senior year went by in a snap. When you tell the kids, 'look, just stop, look around, try to be present, remember this moment right now because it'll be gone' and all of a sudden, they're in May and they're walking up in front of you. HS: So if you could talk to your freshmen year self right now, what would you tell him? BL: That's a great question. Um, I don't know, just be you. And thankfully I was, but just relax cause, well I am the first openly gay trustee at Skidmore, and I didn't come out until I was 25. But at that point it wasn't really, there wasn't really the atmosphere to be okay with that. So I would just say, just you know, as my grandmother used to say, 'you don't always have to tell all you know'. Which is one of my, I have a collection of sayings from her. I would just say, you know, 'continue to be you' and, 'you are enough'. That's what I tell my son all the time. Sometimes he listens, sometimes he doesn't. HS: Did you have a core group of friends? BL: I was very blessed to have a lot of friends in varying degrees, I mean different majors and it was just a good group of, I mean I'm still here, one of my sophomore roommates, we were in the only sophomore triple on campus, um two art history majors and a theater major - hilarity ensues - you know, some of the things we did. You know we just collected friends. And um, we were never in the �Ladd 6 popular crowd, and I still couldn't figure out how that happened, but um these many years later we're making new friends, ya know we're not the same people as we were when we were students, thank god. Some of us have grown up and gone very different ways, I mean, I was a theater major, so naturally after 35 years in motion pictures I'm a pastor. Yes. Gods got a sense of humor. But no, that was the great thing, I didn't have time for sports, though I should have played tennis but I couldn't figure out a way to get another couple of hours in the day. Just wasn't gonna work. HS: Could you bring it back to that sophomore year triple for a little bit? BL: Oh god it was great. Well we had a really sucky number, and we were like, okay what do we do? Well there's one way to keep on campus, we should become a triple, we kind of looked at each-other. We all lived in Kimbal, and we said, okay let's do this. And then we had, we got our number, we got our room, and I chose the modular unit, it was my little perch. And it was really terrific. We had such a great time. There's a famous comedy album called, When You're in Love the Whole World is Jewish and we would play that nightly and we would just laugh ourselves to sleep. It was just so much fun. We did have some, there were some romantic exploits of my roommates that were interesting, but you know it was just terrific, and our other roommate who cannot be here, he lives in the next town over from me in Massachusetts and so that's really great. Yea we were just in, they were like "they put you three in a triple?". Well that's what triple means, three. Um, and it's just the stuff of legend, we would terrorize parents during parents weekend by opening up a window and going, 'Mommy? Mom, I'm lost' and watching the, ah so good. So naturally the ministry called. It's one of those things, why did they put them together. And 35 years later, we are still very close so that's terrific. HS: So what was a normal Friday night for you? BL: No such thing, they all kind of blended. Are you in rehearsal, okay you go through classes and then literally you had like maybe five or ten minutes to gobble down �Ladd 7 your meal and then run back to rehearsal and then, and that's, I do have a bad eating habit because of Skidmore. I can eat a meal in five minutes which is not always good. But, yea it's like 'what's going on this weekend? What're the movies? Anything good?". Or sometimes we'd drive out and, you know, to the old Pyramid Mall and see horror pictures like the Fog - that was really great - and the original Friday the 13th, you know, always fun. American Warewolf and yea, it was just, kind of one of those moments. Back in the day, McDonalds used to have the shamrock shakes and we would go downtown cause thats where McDonalds was, and get a shamrock shake and would say, "look! it's the exorcist" and go "bleaah". Again, not the high mark of taste in humor, but we were young and stupid. Um, that would be, we would make our own fun but it was, we spent a lot of time on campus ya know, the whole bars and drinking thing just wasn't mine. HS: So did you ever interact with the locals and the local businesses? BL: Always, cause you know, when you did go downtown that's just who you were with and coming from a very small town you really don't want to show yourself off not to be a good neighbor, let's just put it that way. And in fact, Steve Sullivan who's class of '78, he'd graduated before but he was always very connected to Skidmore and owns Old Bryan Inn, and Longfellows and connected me to the folks in town and so I just always looked at Saratoga as an extension of Skidmore and really great relationships. And I still do, I really love coming back, I think Saratoga is just an amazing place. HS: Are there any establishments that you went to in college that you look forward to coming back to now BL: Well a lot of them are closed. Theres The Parting Glass, always was great. Of course Old Bryan Inn, hello, nat'(urally). But a lot of the, Mrs. Londons, a lot of the places have since gone by the wayside because that's what happens as time passes. And oh, sorry OBI still has the best french onion soup. Old Bryan Inn. It's in a little crock and it's got that molten cheese over the top, forget it that's just, �Ladd 8 forget it. That's all I have to say to my classmates, they're like "oh my god, so good". HS: Is there anything, outside of academics that really stuck with you as a life lesson that stuck with you from being at Skidmore? BL: I have to go back to 'Is this your very best work'. Because, in the industry, motion picture industry, no one is going to ask you that. It is that personal kind of standards and scholarship that you always carry. And you know if something is your very best. You know if you've kind of shined something on and it's just not right. And of course I would pair that with what my grandfather said, 'there's two ways of doing something, the easy way and the right way' and in this world you have your word and your name. No one will ever ask you that, but you know. And so all those cobbled together and that has lasted me all these years because it's just, you are yourself and if you don't hold yourself to higher standards, no one else will. HS: Is there one thing from back during Skidmore that you wish you could change? BL: Yea. I wish I hadn't contemplated suicide my freshmen year. It was a very dark place you know, being in the closet, in fact this is the last thing - I don't have many more closets to come out of - but I just talked about this in the latest board of trustees meeting, and I did. And Skidmore saved my life, I mean literally my house counselor, my RAs got me into counseling and that actually started the process of me coming out. But I wish I hadn't had done that, um I wish I hadn't pretended but that's, that's where I was, and that's where the country was at the time so now, thankfully that served me to be first of all, me, and like I said, the first to be openly gay trustee which I don't really think much about and it's like, "oh, that's right, I guess I am" but like, well you know, they look like me, and I'm like "well you know, looks can be deceiving" and it allows other people to tell their stories. So in a roundabout way, I hope I've answered your question. Something like that. �Ladd 9 HS: Do you think Skidmore today is more of a safe place for young men and women to be themselves? BL: I think it is. You know, that's a journey, it's not like a destination, once we're there, we're there, because as the world changes you know, this environment has to change in being reflective of that change and having a place where people can be themselves authentically 100% and that's a goal and it's a continuing process that the trustees are very aware of - excuse me - and the college is very aware of. Yea, it's remarkable. HS: And is there anything you hope does change with Skidmore? BL: I hope we get more endowment money? Sorry, just you know. I want to see - I'm not a big fan of the word diversity, because I think it's kind of limiting, or like the word multicultural, I like the word reflective - the reflective of the world, because I want to be in that world, I don't want to be in just a very anglo-centric environment, cause frankly it bores the teeth out of me and that's not where I've lived. I've lived in the world, and I like the world being reflected. In fact Lynda Jackson Chalmers and I were sitting next to each-other at commencement and said, 'ya know' she's class of, oh golly, nineteen seventy-, I want to say nineteen seventy-one or seventy-three, and she said, 'I remember when, you know I first came on the board, there were maybe twelve students of color and as we sit there and as we sat in this commencement - which was cold, and rainy, and wet - we had lots of time to just huddle together and there was just wave after wave of children - sorry, they're children - they're grownups, in quotes. But kids from Asia and African countries and it was just so enlightening and heartening that it's like, imagine, and then she goes "I don't even count anymore because there are so many kids" and I just said, 'ya know, imagine the courage it takes to not just go to a different state, go to a different country or continent. And these kids from China and the Asian countries, as well, and that's very in-strata of me, the Asian countries as well as the African countries'. All I had to do was come from Arizona and look what they've done and look who they are, and we were just sitting there �Ladd 10 welling up with pride. And also humility and gratitude that these kids felt safe enough to come to Skidmore and just rock the place, so it was a very big moment - still we were freezing to death, but there we go. HS: And when you were going up on that stage to graduate, what was the world like that you were going into BL: Let's see, '83? Ronald Reagan. It was the early 80s and it was a surreal moment. You know materialism, at least in my life, it was all about stuff and achievement rather than being the person and it took me a while to figure that out so I just, ya know, right after I graduated I started getting work on All My Children, which was a soap opera back then. But it wasn't about doing good acting work, and I didn't get that until later and I went, 'Oh, okay', I was ill-prepared but that was because of my own development. Yea, it was a different time but I'm glad I did it. HS: Was there, amongst your friends, was there general optimism about the prospect of post college? BL: I don't really, I think we all just though, sure we can do anything cause you know when you're young and arrogant, 'hey, you know, I can do that'. And that's what we did. We were just talking about that actually last night, there were two classmates of mine who were making $11,000 out of college and they're one dream was to make their age in thousands and you know, we just thought well we can do that and it was, you know, I guess that's kind of the Skidmore motto, 'hell, I went to Skidmore, I can do anything' or that's always been my motto. But you figure it out, and I think that's um, there was the optimism. There certainly wasn't the divisiveness that is, well back in the old days you know Russia was a communist country, not colluders anyway. Just, things have changed and its a different environment now. HS: So if you meet someone today who's thinking about going to Skidmore BL: Well yea I'll interview them. Yea. HS: What are some of the things, if they ask you "should I go", what's your boiler plate �Ladd 11 BL: I don't really have a boilerplate. I grill them pretty hard because I love this college, look ya know, if you're someone who wants to be a member of this world, a conscious member and who's willing to take risks in their education to really stretch themselves, then this is the place to go. If you're looking for a backup school, bye bye, no no. You know just go somewhere else. But if you really want to be a stuck in citizen, then this is where you want to be, cause it will change you in ways you cannot foresee and you can't study for it. You can't take a test for it. And just get ready, cause you think 'yup, this is what I'm going to do, I'm going to business school, business school, business school', and then ding, you're over here doing something else, 'yes, I'm in environmental science, how did that happen?' This is being prepared to being a conscious member of this planet and I think it'll help to be, to have that liberal arts education because people change careers, not jobs, at least nine times and baby you gotta be able to pivot cause if you ain't got pivot you got diddly and that's the nicest thing I can say. And that's been the hallmark of my life because of all the different careers that I've had and here, ya know, when I think I can't be surprised anymore (laughs) I called the ministry, 'are you fricking out of your mind', but you have to have, like all those skills? Trust me I use my education a lot. HS: Can you give me an anecdote about how Skidmore has affected not just your life in theater but your life as part of the ministry? BL: Oh absolutely, you have to be able to write. In fact I just finished my ordination paper after a year and I defend it on June 21st so, you know - include prayers here - but you have to be able to write and tell a story and that goes into crafting a sermon, and mine are not only crafted pretty well but are under 15 minutes. You go in, you make your point, you get the hell out, but also it looks at fundraising, stewardship. Again, it's all about storytelling, how you tell that story. I also used my filmmaking tools for not only for Skidmore, but also for the church. Because it's about, not only reaching out to the church community but also to the wider community. Again, it's story, it's communication, it's also being conscious of your �Ladd 12 environment and in the world environment, psychology, sociology, economics, publicity, vision, you know, and empathy, all those, it's just like, I use my education every day. HS: I'm trying to be mindful of the time, but do you have any last just profound great, unbelievably best stories from Skidmore? BL: I think that'll have to be in our volume 2, because I have a lot of stories. Some I can share, and some I cannot. HS: Can you share one? BL: It's like, 'be funny!' oh thanks, thanks for that. Um well, first day I walked on thet set of Ghost Story, I was an extra with some lines that eventually got cut, I was scared ridiculous. And then, cause it was January, it was twenty-below, yea, and I'm like 'okay', just trying not to throw up and there is this famous actor, producer, director, John Houseman standing outside and I have my first scene with him. And I'm like, I wanted to die. And I just said, 'um Mr. Houseman, my name is Bill Ladd, and I'm going to be working with you today, and it's a true honor' and he kind of gave me a side look and I went 'oh crap, I'm done' and I said, 'I'm a theater student here' and I said 'I'm a very devout member of your history and what you have done.' He says, 'Like?' I said, 'well you produced The Bad and the Beautiful with Lonna Turner and Kirk Douglas' and he said, 'Really?' and I said, 'yea I'm a huge fan' but also 'Mercury Theater, it's I really admire you' and so it put a big smile on his face, the ice was broken, cause you know frost was forming on our limbs, and we sat down for the next couple of hours until they set up the shot and started to work. And that's how I didn't have a heart attack on my first day in motion pictures. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sultan, Harry Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ladd, Bill, '83 Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Bill Ladd, '83 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sultan, Harry, 17 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng,) Description An account of the resource Ladd, '83, was a theater major who studied with Carolyn Anderson. He hails from Wayne, Maine, and currently lives in Framingham, Massachusetts. He recalls faculty including Phyllis Roth and Pat Lee pushing him to excel, acting in a movie while still in college, and being the third generation in the Ladd family to serve as a Skidmore College trustee. He notes that he is the first openly gay trustee at the College. His social life included friends, movies at the old Pyramid Wall, and alum Steve Sullivan, '78, who owns the Old Bryan Inn and Longfellows. Ladd also opens up about the one thing he would change about his time at Skidmore, was contemplating suicide during his first year of College. He also describes how Skidmore helped him accept himself and has become a safer place for "young men and women to be themselves." Now finishing a transition to a career in ministry, Ladd talks about how the writing and storytelling skills honed at Skidmore have served his work in theater and now for the church. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording alumni Helen Ladd Joanna Zangrando oral history; Pat Lee Peter McCarthy Phyllis Roth Skidmore College Susan Kress; Kimball Dormitory https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/745f0730cd37fb8cb837fcdfdee36694.jpg 121f376bf3035819e8d876a6da25f8b5 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/929d62ce27166cad1c83b8565713c1e0.m4a 8c5c0771aa9aca275334946c61ba3731 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/72884b2f97d7e29e264c8bee0b1140d4.jpg 6996ce0101f9959b285b20315192948a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/86ac753ae12344d373f4f886fba59b22.pdf 3982fb6ceeb301292b73e94aca4f657f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Blodget-Holberton, Anne Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anne Blodget-Holberton, 73 alumni oral history Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/74b9baeccc5e0fd9426516fa3c5d44be.jpg c46c38cc106a037a6b33dfcffd42e8b8 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/96f76eaa5d4f1d8846cd96582ada1323.m4a 521c96a16d0d85f70c5cf6a8a2c84e2e https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/02fac18fad0022bf75f2c5cd7f205938.pdf eba65f8d0bd8f749c309fa1529ea60b7 PDF Text Text 1 Title Jacob DeLeon Navarrete Interview Date June 2nd, 2018 Language Eng Interviewer Emily Rizzo Location Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Original Format Audio Recording Duration 39:13 Tags Alumni , Oral history , Skidmore College , Tour guide , Admissions �2 ER: So, you can you say your full name and your graduating year and your major or minors? JV: Sure, my name is Jacob DeLeon Navarrete. I graduated in 2008. I was a double major in psychology and history. I focused on existential psychology with Sheldon Solomon and I worked with Jennifer Delton in American History, mostly focusing on the civil rights era all the way back to colonial period. ER: Wow that's amazing. And where are you from? JV: Dallas, Texas. ER: Dallas, Texas. Wow I always wanted to take an existential psychology class with Sheldon and I never got to fit it in. JV: Yeah, he's... I got really lucky because he was my advisor when I first started as a student. So I took LS1 with him, I don't know if you guys still do LS1 or not, but he was my LS1 teacher and I really just connected with him. At the time I wasn't going to be a psychology major. I had come in interested in doing pre-med but quickly learned that other peoples' blood freaks me out so being a doctor was not necessarily the best path for me. And I had always been very interested in human behavior and what drives human choices and an intersection of psychology and philosophy seemed really cool and anyone who’s ever seen Sheldon Solomon knows that he’s a captivating person. So it was kind of hard to not have chosen that. When I think about the person that I was coming to college and then having the opportunity to engage with such interesting minds, I was very influenced by those elements more so than a real passion for the subject matter, that grew as I began to dig deeper into the actual academic component of it. ER: Wow that's really great. I guess since we already started talking about it... Can you talk about what it was like being head tour guide? �3 JV: Oh. So I... When I got to Skidmore I really didn't know what to do. Being from Texas, not knowing anyone here, I tried very hard to make sense of the community and that meant I did a lot of activities I tried to learn where buildings were, and I saw an opportunity to be a tour guide. They made the first option available to first year students in second semester. So I applied for it and I was really excited about it. I was hired as a tour guide and there was something about being able to share my passion for Skidmore that I really enjoyed. And so, I was a tour guide pretty much in the earliest moment possible. And because I was from far away I spent some summers on campus and I was a summer tour guide. And by the time I was a Junior I had been hired as one of the co-head tour guides. And I spent my junior and my senior year running the tour guide program. It was really interesting to see that element of higher education because it wasn't about me. It was about these other people. And I think a lot of students view tour guiding as a job. And it is, it's a great way to make some extra cash, have an opportunity to pick up a couple skills if you haven't already. But very few people I think approach it as community service. And that's kind of how I approached it. Don't get me wrong, enjoyed the pay check, very much appreciated the work. But I loved it because I was giving students the opportunity to see the institution the way that I did. And I knew it wasn't going to be right for every student, but the student who it was right for, they would fall in love. And it was also really cool to see students come in as first year students, during my third or fourth year, who I had given a tour to and who really responded to the way Skidmore was presented to them. So, it was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed being able to share my experience in the community with people who probably would have never thought to ask me about Skidmore because I don't think I represent the average Skidmore student, particularly not in 2000. ER: Wow I have so many questions. So, you loved Skidmore a lot? JV: Oh yeah, I was a student senator right out of the gate, they always have the three spots, at least my time it was three spots, available for freshman students. So I ran. The funny thing was only three of us ran and I had the lowest number of votes. It was really interesting. �4 ER: Yeah. JV: But I got really involved with student senate. I was the very last coordinator of diversity affairs before there was a vice president of diversity affairs, that was the person who followed me. But I eventually realized that student government was not what was right for me. And that's when I shifted from having my hands in a bunch of things to focusing on working in the admissions office and as I got older I just spent less time doing things that were for the sake of doing it and more time focused on the things I was really interested in. And student government was fun, but I think it's best done by the people who want to devote energy in ways that I don't think I have the patience for, in a certain sense. But tour guiding is... the patience that you have to have is a very different kind of patience. ER: What do you mean by that? JV: So the patience you have to have for student government I would say is the same for politics. ER: Yeah. JV: You have to suffer everyone. No one is wrong. Everyone's opinion and perspective is important because you're representing everyone. And so, student government being representative of government, you have to listen you have to take into consideration things that you don't believe, people that you don't agree with. And that's great that we have individuals that are willing to put themselves through that. I think the saying is, "People who are willing to suffer fools." As a tour guide, you suffer fools in a completely different way. Your goal is to help people see what you see. And for a lot of tour guides, they just lie. I'm not saying that happens at Skidmore per say, but just in general you go to a museum they're going to spin the best story possible. But you don't have to. A really good tour guide doesn't lie. They find ways to respond to your question in truth, but hopefully, if they're perceptive enough, they �5 know what you're really asking and can come around to address how the school handles that issue. When parents ask questions about drinking, what they're really asking about is safety. No parent thinks that kids don't drink in college. It happens. It's just what happens in the United States. So, the real question is, "Is my child going to be safe while they're participating in activities? Are they going to feel like they're forced to participate in activities? So a tour guide who isn't thinking that far ahead will say, "There's no parties." Or, "Nothing is under age." Or, "People get in trouble." But that's not true. A smart tour guide would respond that Skidmore is the type of place where students can make whatever choices that they feel comfortable making, that Skidmore provides a really safe environment to do so, there are tremendous amounts of opportunities for students who don't want drugs or alcohol, all sorts of programming... That's how you respond to that question. You don't say people don't party. You don't say everyone parties. Or whatever the easiest answer is. And that's just one example of why I think I was much more interested in being a tour guide than being in student government. ER: Yeah definitely. Yeah, I think tour guides sell Skidmore as more diverse than it actually is. Because Skidmore includes in its numbers, in its percentages, international students, everyone who's international is counted in the diversity percentage, which doesn't make sense because not everyone who's in the international percentage... some of them are white and they're thrown into that percentage to make it seem more inclusive than it is. So it's like, "Are you lying? Are you giving that percentage?" But I think some tour guides try to give that number and pretend... or try to tell this lie. JV: I think that's also a reflection of the difference between the institution internally and the institution externally. So, I ended up being an admissions officer here for three and a half years. So I was a tour guide and then got hired as an admissions officer. And I think when institutions utilize percentages to craft a certain narrative, it's usually a reflection of the industry more than an individual office. It's very common for schools to include international students in their diversity numbers because colleges try to have the most broad definition of diversity. And that �6 can be problematic sometimes when people are really asking, "How many white people are here?" Right? And I think it's fair to ask that question, versus how diverse are you? Because diversity is a cop out word. Right? You can have diversity with a bunch of white men. There can be a lot of diversity in the way you think, how you see the world, right? So including international students in the diversity number makes sense if what you're saying is, we have a lot of different people from different experiences and walks of life. But we also know that that's not what people are really asking when they say diversity. And so that's the internal versus external tension. It's the same thing that when we use graduation rates. We say it out of six years but it's really out of four. But four isn't as nice so everyone does it out of six. ER: What's the out of six? JV: So most four-year graduation rates are actually out of six years. ER: Oh oh. JV: Yeah. But they factor in taking breaks, going abroad, switching your major. ER: That's okay. JV: Right but people think it's the four-year rate. ER: Yeah. JV: And it's not the four-year rate it's the six-year rate. That's what the government does for a degree. So being an admission officer gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about how colleges function as institutions relative to how they function for students. And it gave me a really good view into how a class is made. And I think a lot of students have a completely misguided notion as to how they got into college. I think if you were to ask the average �7 Skidmore student, "How'd you get into college?" "Oh yeah I worked hard. I did well in school." It's like, "No that's not why you got into Skidmore. It isn't. You fit exactly what the institution was looking for at that year." And at a place now where they're taking 25% of the students who apply, it's even more so, "We need this particular subset of people to have the class that we're looking for." You didn't get in, it's more of a reflection, not of your ability or not of your strengths, it's, "You just didn't have what we were looking for this year. If you apply next year, you might get in. If you applied the year before, you might get in. It's just this year. There were a lot of girls with brown hair and blue eyes who played soccer and were violinists. Sorry." That's the flip side of access. Everybody's going to apply. That's what makes it much harder to get in. Admissions officers are humans. They're not machines. Some students are just going to stand out to them. So, it was an interesting experience to learn. It helped me better contextualize myself instead of thinking, "Oh I have this because..." I could step back and say, "Well, there are probably plenty of other people who were just as good or whatever the reason." I'm a college counselor now, among other things, and so having that knowledge in the back of my head really helps when I talk with students who don't get into their schools of choice. It's not a reflection of you, it's a reflection of the school. ER: Yeah so, I wanted to ask, that's actually a good leeway, what are you doing now? JV: So right now, I am the associate head of upper school at the Auckland School in Dallas Texas. It's a Montessori and international baccalaureate school, educating students from 18 months to 18 years. And we actually just had our first graduating seniors. So the schools been around for over 50 years but had stopped at 6th grade for a long time and stopped at 8th grade about 15 years ago. That's when they opened the middle school and so we opened the upper school four years ago. And so I handle all the college counseling, student life, and now as the associate head, pretty much everything. I'm just very deeply involved with what goes on. And I feel very happy to say that I had a student who was accepted to Skidmore. She didn't choose to attend but it was nice to have that be one of our first seniors apply and then be admitted to Skidmore. So that's what I do. �8 ER: Wow that's amazing. Yeah it feels like, from what you've said, everything that you've done at Skidmore helped you get to... JV: Where I am? ER: And then your admissions position at Skidmore and now you're really a... leadership role... JV: There's no doubt that my time at Skidmore was fundamental for who I am as a person. I just finished my masters degree at Stanford and the most interesting element of that was how often my undergraduate experience was really useful. And I think that my belief in creative thought mattering has really been an important perspective when dealing with problem solving, dealing with people. Just remembering that you have to be creative. And usually when you remember to be creative it reminds you to be patient. And that has been really valuable for me as a person. Skidmore has really been critical to the person that I am. I wouldn't say that it defines me, but I also can't think of myself without it. So I wouldn't be surprised if I find myself with a job here again as my last job or something. Like I really did love my time here and I love what they do for students. And that's why I do what I do, because I had a great college experience and I want that for every other person. I want every human to have the time of undergraduate experience that I did. Because if you had asked me at 17 if I'd be doing what I'm doing now... No, not at all. A 17-year-old Jacob would look at 32 year old Jacob and say, "What are you doing with yourself? Working at a high school? With teenagers?" But 32-year-old Jacob can look back at 17 year old Jacob and say "You just don't know enough about life. You don't know enough about you yet." And my time at Skidmore helped me learn so much about myself. Because there's something about the community and the campus that encourages you to explore internally and externally. ER: Something about the campus? �9 JV: I think that the combination of the campus layout, all the trees, the green spaces, the Northwoods, the general approach to student development and student learning, mixed with... at least this was my time, I can't speak for Skidmore today but... When I was a student there was some sort of open mindedness, of not necessarily non-judgmental, but much more flexible with what you chose to do. A certain unspoken encouragement to figure out what you wanted to do and to be okay with that. I will also admit that in 2004, the entering class, the standards shifted dramatically from the class of 2005. Just from an admissions stand point., the selectivity was dramatically different. So a lot of us that graduated in 2008, we feel like we're the last class of the old Skidmore, before Skidmore became a place where everybody wanted to go, and no one got in. I think my freshman year, our acceptance rate was something like 40% and now it's like 20%, in ten years, 15 years. That's a really big difference and that says a lot about the type of student that goes here. And I don’t think that that shift, I hope not, has not impacted that desire, that curiosity, that openness to explore yourself, to figure things out. The number of people I saw who came in Skidmore one way and left Skidmore a very different way, but so authentically... I don't know if that was just the common college growth that happens everywhere... I don't think so. I think what happens here is very special. And places like Skidmore... I don't think Skidmore is the only place on the planet that does it. I think there's something about a liberal arts college on a beautiful campus with faculty who really want to engage in the learning and development of students. That produces something special. But I think you add that to Skidmore's history as an all-women’s institution, Skidmore's history as an art school, Skidmore's history as an institution believing in creative thought. I think all of that together allows for that internal exploration, almost a permission to explore yourself. And then externally I think that marketing itself to students who are looking for something different it does produce more opportunity to dig. And maybe not be so afraid about it. Because I feel like a lot of students at giant universities, they kind of wake up and realize they’re not the person they want to be. I’m not saying that doesn't happen at Skidmore, but for the kids that that does happen here, there's more opportunity for you to be like “Oh okay I’m going to find some new people.” I just don’t know if that happens in schools that are more anonymous. �10 ER: I think it's been changing, a lot of people have been coming for the business department. JV: It's very famous. ER: Yeah and I don’t know if it was the same when you were here...? JV: It was just starting. Because I think also... I think a big factor was Fall 2008, the economy crashing, Leeman Brothers, all of that., changes the world. when I was a senior in college you didn’t have to have a job, you didn’t have to know what you were doing. I had a summer job. I fell into the admissions office. That was normal 10 years ago. Now, if you don’t have everything lined up in January you're completely screwed. So I also think the changes in the students coming to Skidmore is a reflection of both how strong the business department actually is but also because you can do business here and art and it’s not going to pull you one way or the other. A lot of other schools that have a business school or business program the other things are secondary, they just are, but here it’s not. And so I do think that that’s probably part of why that shift has been happening but hasn’t completely over thrown the college. Because I think in the world we live in today, it could be even more of a business orientation. But I think it’s the strength in music, the strength in visual art, the strength in dance, the strength in the social sciences, the strength in the foreign languages, the strength in English. There's so many quality nonprofessional programs here, and I mean that in relation to professional degrees like an MBA or a Doctor of Social Work or a doctor of exercise. that’s what I mean by professional as opposed to the more general term, allows for that dichotomy and the slowing down of the change, because you do see a lot of liberal arts colleges, there’s a big shift. you see a lot of liberal arts colleges just get eaten up bigger universities because people don’t see the value anymore because people don’t see the value anymore. ER: Yeah, I hope that it doesn't change, I'm worried. JV: It's fair to be worried I think. �11 ER: Is there any memory that has come up as you've been here? JV: I mean that was the crazy part. Myself and a friend who came up, when we first got to campus we just walked around. And that’s what happened for 45 minutes, just like "Oh my god this" and "Oh my god that." And I think a lot of stuff occurred, a lot of memories, a lot of crazy memories, but I think the one that probably shocked me the most was., or surprised me by how overwhelming it was, was actually something that I didn’t even remember until I was reliving the experience. So as a psychology and history major almost all my classes were in Tisch (Learning Center). I was a Tisch kid. I was always in Tisch. I called it the “ology building” when I was a tour guide, even though history isn’t an ology, and I would literally say that, "although history isn't an ology." There is the walkway out of Tisch leading to Palamountain (Hall) where the early childhood center is, right there’s that L covered walkway and all the honey suckle. The smell of the honey suckle got me. Because I forgot how much that smell was constant, how strong that smell is, and how often I smelled it. In context to walking from one building to the other. I was frozen when the smell hit my nostrils and all of these memories just washed over very quickly. Particularly I used to do observation in the early childhood center. I was a sophomore and I was taking a child development class. Because at the time I thought I was going to be more focused on childhood development but not at all, I ended up not doing that at all. But that was a really interesting semester for me because I had never engaged with children, and so the combination of the smells and just how much that time influenced me, one way or the other. So I think that was probably the biggest memory. It was also just to go walk around and see which professors were still here and which ones are not still here. It was also nice to see there was more diversity in the faculty, I can tell there’s not much now. but when I was here there was none. I didn't have a single male of color teach me at Skidmore. Maybe I had one female of color teach me. I knew there was a male psychology professor, Hassan Lopez, who I didn’t have until my final year. He was actually the first male of color that I had I’m pretty sure. I could be wrong about that, but it was so few that... but then looking around and seeing that there were a handful more teachers of color, said something. now, I’ll be honest, two percent of the population has a PhD. so were already looking at a very small section of �12 people. when you look at the cross section of education, there just aren’t that many PhDs that are black, or Mexican, or anything that isn’t white. so that’s not necessarily a reflection of Skidmore, but Skidmore could work harder at really finding diverse faculty if they wanted to. so, there’s always a tension one way or the other. But it was nice to see new faces, it was nice to see new scholarship from people who are not the standard professorial type. that was really cool to see. ER: Yeah Skidmore needs to work on its retention. JV: Yeah it does. ER: What else would you like to see improve at Skidmore? JV: I love this place. I just want to see Skidmore not be so slow about what it does. I loved seeing the signs on campus letting visitors know, this is renewable, or this is sustainable, or we have this goal. I saw the goal of 25% food sustainability by 2025. why isn’t it 50%? why isn’t it 75%? obviously that’s ambitious and it would require a lot of thoughtful changes, but Skidmore is the type of place in my opinion where there are so many creative people here that there’s no reason why they shouldn’t be pushing themselves harder. I would love to see the administration push back on some of the faculty who are not as tolerant as they think they are. that’s one thing that I do know is true. I have kept enough in touch that there have been some issues in town with students of color and I was very disappointed in how the administration responded to that. I was very disappointed to see that there was not a 100% defense of the students. Period. The students were students. Even if they were wrong which they weren’t. but even if they were wrong, I feel like if they were rich white students, it would have been a whole different response. and I don’t think that anyone made that decision deliberately, but that’s what bias is. you don’t see that you would treat someone else differently because of some immutable factor. If they were rich white kids, "Oh we have to be careful about the parents. the politics involved...". well why isn’t that same consideration given to a poor brown or black kid? �13 they have just as much value as a person right? and again I’m not saying that this is Skidmore only, this is the world we live in, but I think Skidmore could do a better job. particularly since they have a commitment at least in words, to bring in diversity, to bring in a variety of people. like I loved seeing that the opportunity program is now one big unit. Because when I was a student it was HEOP and AOP, no one really knew what AOP was, all the HEOP kids were clumped together because they were from New York City. And it was nice that they were on campus, but they were completely ostracized from everyone else. No one intended to do that but that’s what it was. And so as a student of color who was in neither program, it was weird. So now to see that all the opportunity programs are all together, there’s a whole place for them. That just made me feel like okay this is the kind of action that I want to see. Why did it take so long? I was sad to see that some of the administrators who have left, why they’ve left… That made me kind of sad. But I think it is important to remind the Skidmore community that you can’t rest on your laurels. That just because you are better in a lot of ways than other institutions that doesn’t mean that you get to slow down, that doesn’t mean you get to set targets that everyone else should set. That I’m disappointed by. But not disappointed enough to not care, but just be like, “Hey.” Like you know when you get disappointed in your friends who don’t live up to their potential? That's kind of how I feel sometimes. That we could be pushing ourselves more. We could be doing more. We could be having more courageous conversations with ourselves, with each other, around these sensitive issues. Like it was great to see a Black Lives Matter thing in Case Center. That’s great. But do the Black lives here actually feel like they matter? Because there was a time when I was a student where a lot of black lives didn't feel like they mattered as much. I never really felt that. But just because I don’t doesn’t mean it’s not true for other people. So that’s why I would say I would want to push Skidmore, particularly in a place like Saratoga Springs that's very different than the people who come to school here. We could be fostering more education, more awareness. I don’t mean tolerance in the sense of just accepting. But I really mean like, “You have wrong beliefs because you’re not educated in the right things so let’s provide you more education.” Let’s give you more opportunities to step outside your comfort zone. Because people believe things �14 because they don’t have anything else to counter that belief. They have no experience, no exposure. There is so much here that could make Saratoga better and they don’t do enough. ER: We really don’t engage in Saratoga. JV: And I will admit, I know enough to know that the town doesn’t really want them to. But that doesn’t mean you accept it. That doesn’t mean you say, "Okay you don't want us then fine." There are enough educated, thoughtful, powerful, rich people in this community, Skidmore's community. They could be on seats in the board in town. They could be actively engaged in changing Saratoga. But they don’t want to. So that’s what I mean by pushing more. ER: And it's even true for pushing faculty more. Faculty and staff showed up though... JV: That must mean they want to try. I feel like, the one thing that I want younger people like you to hear, because I was where you were at some point, I'm on my way to that other point, young people are impatient, you are. Because for you, you see the way... It’s like "This is how it should be! Why is it not?" And that's great, never lose that. But just remember that as you get older, you begin to understand why things are older, that doesn’t just defy it. But I guess try to find the wins. Because the story you just said, makes me think, "Okay, at least the staff want to engage." Maybe enough kids didn't come, but the fact that there were a lot of staff members who came, that says that there's a willingness to have the conversation and that’s huge. And my fear is that young people, the younger people, haven’t lived enough to recognize, haven't lived enough to recognize how much it is to get someone to come to the table. And that open mindedness is a lot more difficult than you think. I have found a lot of progressives and liberals are some of the most closeminded people I’ve ever met because they think they’re right. And I’ll admit I use to be like that when i was young, I was like, " I’m right. Why would I be openminded? I’m open-minded because I’m right!" Actually, if you think that you're right, you’re not open-minded. So let’s talk about... Do we really want open-minded-ness? Is it actually a good thing? Or do we want closemindedness that’s correct? I don’t know I’m just saying that it’s important that young people just recognize that experience does dictate how you see the �15 world. And even in my own job, I had seven things I wanted to do this year, I got three of them done and I learned, I was like, "You know what? I’m going to be proud of those three things because everybody else is super proud of them. I’m the only one that’s mad that I didn’t get to do all seven. And my boss was like, "Jacob, we only have room as people, for three things a year. You want to do more than 3 things? take away something," just, that’s something that I’ve had to learn and grow with. But don’t ever lose the passion. just, almost forgive yourself as you move through it. Because you’re going to get a point where you’re going to be 30 and you’re going to realize, "Oh there's so much more." And that’s not to excuse slowness, that’s not to excuse behavior, but I think it does help from becoming a state of despair. I feel like a lot of young people after the election were in a state of despair. And rightfully so it was a despairing moment for a lot of people. But it’s been almost two years now. were in the second year, right? were still here, were alive, people are fighting. it’s an awareness now and that’s valuable. That’s more valuable than if she had won and people didn’t know that they lived in the world they live in. And so being able to have this dialogue about Skidmore, if nothing else, the people who are interested in making change at Skidmore listen to all the different people have all these different opinions and stories and histories about Skidmore, if you really want to make it a better place, listen to what people have said. Don’t just take what they’re saying as truth, but listen to the whole thing. What’s the points that seem to be sticking out? And how does that relate to what the students right now are saying? What’s the parallel? What’s the dissonance? It’s hard to be a leader. It’s easy to want to lead. It’s very hard to actually lead. But I’m excited to see how Skidmore plays out over the next 10 years, see what kinds of students come here, what changes happen, what changes don’t happen. Because there’s some things what just shouldn’t change, but it shouldn’t not change simply because they don't want it to. There should be a reason that it stays the same. If you can’t come up with that reason, then it’s got to change. And I think any alum would be okay with it changing for the right reason. So I’m excited to see how it all plays out. ER: I’m excited to see what you do. �16 JV: Oh well thank you. That's very nice. ER: Thank you so much. JV: My pleasure. ER: This was really great. JV: Absolutely. I enjoyed it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Navarrete, Jacob Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 39:13:00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Description An account of the resource Navarrete, '08, from Dallas, Texas, graduated with a double major in psychology and history, focusing on existential psychology with Sheldon Solomon and American History with Jennifer Delton. He started working with Prof. Solomon in LS1 (Liberal Studies 1, an interdisciplinary course formerly required of all students), and soon began work as a tour guide. Eventually running the tour guide program, Navarrete both made connections on campus and was able to share his passion for the college. He joined SGA as a student senator in his first year, and was the last coordinator of diversity affairs, before the position became a Vice President of diversity affairs. After graduating from college, he worked in admissions and learned about how classes are shaped and chosen, and is current the associate head of upper school at the Auckland School, a Montessori school, in Dallas Texas. He recently finished a master's degree at Stanford University. He particularly values what he felt was a non-judgmental atmosphere with "unspoken encouragement" to experiment, have curiosity, 'explore yourself, to figure things out." He noted a shift in recruitment between 2004 and 2005, with Skidmore becoming increasingly selective, and wonders how classes following his fare that way. Back on campus, the smell of honeysuckle outside Tisch Learning Center, brought back memories of observation in the Early Childhood Center next door in Palamountain Hall. He welcomed increasing diversity on the faculty, as he had taken no classes from a male of color and only one female of color as professors. He would like to see more, faster, change on diversity, and welcomes the combination of the AOP and HEOP (opportunity programs) on campus. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jacob Navarrete, '08 admissions alumni Diversity Latinx Opportunity Program oral history Skidmore College tour guide https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/90a510c707aebe80af8fd724e9c253ae.JPG eb80eda24068062ba36cf005b3e2d4c9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Vonnie Estes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/01/2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Clara-Sophia Daly https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2da702f6bbad7209be00cc4cd0a0c6eb.mp3 32207a5305495d412280d86899595e9d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Flurry Festival Description An account of the resource The Flurry Festival is a three day music and dance Festival that takes place in Saratoga Springs in February. The festival holds workshops, performances, dances, and jam sessions in the city center and throughout the town. The Flurry first started as a dance festival for contra dancing but has expanded to musicians and spans all genres of music and dance as well as encompassing family friendly events such as storytelling. Language A language of the resource English Subject The topic of the resource The Flurry Festival Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies, Clara-Sophia Daly, Dustin Foote, Amanda Muir, Tess Olcott, Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Clara-Sophia Daly Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Vonnie Estes Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Room 127, Skidmore College - Saratoga Springs NY Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 53 minutes Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Clara-Sophia Daly Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/12/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Vonnie Estes Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/01/2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource Interview with Vonnie Estes, musician, dancer, and volunteer at The Flurry Festival, a three-day music and dance festival in Saratoga Springs, NY. Estes speaks about growing up, her evolution as a piano player, the history of The Flurry Festival, and her influence over many folk music events around the Northeast. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Clara-Sophia Daly Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/02/2016 Abstract A summary of the resource. 00:0:26 Header 00:0 20 Explanation of The Flurry Festival and types of music there. 00:1:30 Vonnie Estes. Born in Syracuse New York October 12 1953. Grew up in Fabias New York. Played Piano as a child and took private lessons in school. 00:5:22 Volunteered at Boston Spa Historical Society. Attended first contra dance in 1978. 00:10:17 Attended first Flurry Festival Dance in Gymnasium. 00:14:36 People come back to The Flurry Festival year after year for the community. Many relationships are formed from the music and dance community. 00:18:20 Describes why it is so fun to play for dancers as opposed to jamming with other musicians in a house concert setting. 00:20:40 Young Skidmore students attend jam sessions with other local musicians. 00:23:20 Describes music sessions as “welcoming” and inclusive. 00:25:40 Explains other music groups in NY area that Vonnie Estes and husband are members of. 00:29:10 Defines what a hammer dulcimer is 00:32:26 Prefers upright piano to a keyboard. Likes the acoustic sound and tonality of a real piano. 00:35:15 Describes her job at General Electric working with digital equipment and using a genographics machine to digitize images. 00:36:16 Describes the lack of communication today in comparison with when she was young. 00:38:50 Meets volunteers at The Flurry who are also community minded. 00:41:32 Explains a typical day at The Flurry and what she does. Goes from venue to venue around Saratoga to hear music, play music, dance and volunteer. 00:42:21 Added three extra hours to schedule for The Flurry Festival in 2016. 00:42:46 Describes husbands responsibilities in relation the The Flurry. 00:45:40 Calls her husband “tall, dark and handsome” and “a good dancer”. 00:46:36 Losing Saratoga Music Hall as a venue. Talks about new venue possibilities for The Flurry. 00:49:05 Describes contra dancing as easy. You only have to know “your right from your left hand and walk up and down” 00:49:38 Explains what a “figure” is in terms of square dancing. 00:50:04 Talks about how contra dances used to be segregated by gender, but now are not. Used to be called “proper” dances, now they are “improper” - meaning that it is mixed woman and men and not separate. Notable change in contra dance. 00:51:29 When asked about politics in this country as a whole: “We’re in trouble coming up” “I didn’t vote for him” 00:52:13 Invites all Skidmore students and dancers to The Flurry and to other local dances in the area. 00:52:56 Thank you from Interviewer to Interviewee. Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Flurry Festival -- History Contra Dance dance music oral history Piano Quebec The Flurry Festival https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8bf985724d4cbdd8cabcfdc04440301f.jpg b1858738feacce97cbe9ef03da28c89c https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/927357b49e8def38608dad5e360999fc.mp3 af9a9d36a298344fefa7f1073ac0b79f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Flurry Festival Description An account of the resource The Flurry Festival is a three day music and dance Festival that takes place in Saratoga Springs in February. The festival holds workshops, performances, dances, and jam sessions in the city center and throughout the town. The Flurry first started as a dance festival for contra dancing but has expanded to musicians and spans all genres of music and dance as well as encompassing family friendly events such as storytelling. Language A language of the resource English Subject The topic of the resource The Flurry Festival Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies, Clara-Sophia Daly, Dustin Foote, Amanda Muir, Tess Olcott, Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Tess Olcott Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed John Kirk Location The location of the interview Arthur Zankel Music Building, Room 325 at Skidmore College Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 58 minutes Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Tess Olcott Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/12/2016 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview Interviewee: John Kirk Interviewer: Tess Olcott Location of Interview: Zankel Music Building, Room 325 Date of Interview: 12/2/2016 00:00:00 Header 00:00:18 Introduction – Born in New Finland, Canada, father in the Air force so grew up around the world. Moved to the states when he was 11. Grew up in turbulent times. 00:01:32 The 1960s were a time of great music, his sisters music collection got him started in music, and she taught him guitar. He got his own guitar at age 9. It was organic from there, self-taught. In college he got his first banjo for $40, led to listening to more banjo recordings which had mandolin and fiddle so he learned those also. 00:4:47 Came to Skidmore when wife started teaching banjo, still teaches in Vermont – music history and instrumental music, has been teaching for 9 years at Skidmore. Loves teaching college students because of their enthusiasm, likes to teach how to learn music. Being able to teach and having students show appreciation gives great joy. In the 1950's you could not study jazz because of its stigma, enjoys seeing the growth of music. 00:10:21Playing in a group near Albany and was asked to play in the Flurry Festival at a junior high school. Calls contra dancing while playing the fiddle. The festival was on a much smaller scale. It was 1987, the first year it started. 00:12:30 Calling dancing is very common in traditional music and many international dances. In America, it started with dancing masters. There was different organized dances for English, Irish, etc. that colonists brought here. Masters would travel around calling dances, still happens today. The tradition is held. There are several different formations and music types. There is a huge contra dancing society, one of the main reasons for the Flurry. Explains how contra dancing works. Recent Flurry now have gender free dances. 00:18:12 Changes to the Flurry after the move – More space, more variety, more performers, more people. All new dances, new workshops, new instruments. Talks about each new dance, especially international dances. Having it in the middle of winter brings people out and about. 00:22:21 Going to the flurry – overwhelming, sounds from everywhere in every move. Explains the process of looking at a program and deciding which events to go to because there are so many events, you have to plan ahead or else you may miss something amazing. Endless opportunities even for beginners. Always something to do throughout the whole weekend. Young people people now outnumber the people who have been going for years. 00:27:36 Being part of the community – people that go that he plays with that he has known for 40 years. Great to get to visit with old friends. It is always fun to go to the big sessions where a lot of things come together. 00:29:22 How the younger generation effects the feel of the festival – Higher energy level, great to see the change in music. There are always new ways of playing music. Seeing new innovative ways of playing music. 00:32:37 – Big changes to the festival – change happens gradually, but seeing all new forms of international music is exciting. Sometimes get so caught up in appreciating the music and don't notice all of the change until later. Contra dance is still the big social dance. At the very first flury, the danced the finish write off of the gym floor, including the logo. 00:35:34 Doing the festival with wife is priceless. They get to do all of the events together is always fun. 00:36:20 Favorite things to go to at the Festival – Loves the impromptu sessions in the hallway, the percussive dance, and several of the international dances. Went on a tour around the world and got used to hearing music in a new way. 00:38:56 The changing community – mostly in numbers. Incredible population. Diversity has also increased. Especially with gender. Also talks about Irish set dancing. People are coming from farther away, the social media presence is expanding. They have a house full every year which has turned into a tradition. 00:41:53 Affect on Saratoga – Had to battle for space every year. Main street and downtown businesses have been really supportive. Brings in a lot of people to the city. 00:43:20 Other traditions – At the end of the festival, the next conference is a Baptist gospel revival conference. People at flurry are all tired and a mess by the end and the Baptist group is all dressed very nicely. Its funny to compare the two. People make friends very quickly at the Festival. Political, social, plans and networking talked about. There are struggles too, but they all disappear post partum 00:46:37 Other challenges – Staying hydrated and nourished. Trying to get everywhere. Deciding where to go. Very few artistic problems 00:47:59 Favorite memory/story - Lots of favorite things, playing with legendary mandolin players and Peter Davis. Every percussive dance performance is worth seeing. To be a part of the final dance on stage in the big band. 00:52:18 What advice would you give – Print out a schedule and highlight what you want to do. Look forward to it and fear nothing. Fear not. Go to the dances and try to participate. Stay hydrated and dress in layers. 00:55:05 Favorite workshop – percussive dance festival, or funny songs and sing along. Maybe a yoga class! Come to the festival – it’s a great tradition. 00:58:12 End of interview Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with John Kirk Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/02/2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS 113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource Oral History interview with John Kirk, musician and contra dance instructor for The Flurry Festival. Talks about the changes to the festival that have occurred over the years in terms of audience, music types and dance styles. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tess Olcott Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording 16 bit 44.1KHz Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/2/2016 Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Flurry Festival -- History John Kirk oral history The Flurry Festival https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/cbc82ce88c5b21d8e9a78f3950396b6b.jpg 33b1f7a7f02f95030ca6551d3bd8af82 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Photo: Trish at Arches National Park, Moab UT https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/af2d61a9aa474a3b66da98ca7292879c.mp3 59e8e837133886fd596a6c1eca6cb52f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Trish Miller Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Flurry Festival Description An account of the resource The Flurry Festival is a three day music and dance Festival that takes place in Saratoga Springs in February. The festival holds workshops, performances, dances, and jam sessions in the city center and throughout the town. The Flurry first started as a dance festival for contra dancing but has expanded to musicians and spans all genres of music and dance as well as encompassing family friendly events such as storytelling. Language A language of the resource English Subject The topic of the resource The Flurry Festival Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies, Clara-Sophia Daly, Dustin Foote, Amanda Muir, Tess Olcott, Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jennifer Davies Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Trish Miller Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Room 128b, Skidmore College Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Audio Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 43 minutes Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jennifer Davies Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/12/2016 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview Log: Interview with Trish Miller 0:28 – Discusses her early background with music and dance, how she first became interested in dancing and folk music 2:55 – Becomes a member of touring dance troupe The Green Grass Cloggers, which is how she met her husband John Kirk because he was one of the troupe’s musicians 4:20 – Trish discusses what brought her to Saratoga Springs, and what the town was like when she first came here, Paul Davis 7:00 – how Saratoga Springs has affected The Flurry and vice versa 9:20 – how interest in folk music has evolved over the past few decades 12:00 – Trish’s first experience at the Flurry Festival, Paul Rosenburg 15:50 – Ways that the festival has changed, Hudson Mohawk Traditional Dancers 18:35 – sense of community from within and beyond the festival 21:55 – what a participant/visitor of the Flurry could expect to experience (both positive and negative), the energy/atmosphere of the festival’s environment 28:06 – discusses some various styles of folk music and dance at the festival, Jay Ungar, Pierre Chartrand 32:00 – discusses some of the international participants in the festival 34:20 – discusses Bosnian performers at festival and speaks a bit about the Bosnian culture present in nearby New York state 35:35 – discuses hip-hop stomp dance group from Albany and how the group expresses ideas of social justice and politics 37:55 – recollects on the year that Saratoga lost power due to snow right as the festival was starting and how the dedicated participants overcame this obstacle 41:20 – Trish’s hopes for Skidmore to become more involved in the Festival Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Trish Miller Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/05/2016 Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/05/2016 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS 113A: Storytellling Interviewing, Skidmore College Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Description An account of the resource Trish Miller, dedicated Flurry participant and teacher of banjo at Skidmore College, describes her background in folk music and traditional dance and discusses her experiences with the annual Flurry Festival in Saratoga Springs. Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Flurry Festival -- History dance music oral history The Flurry Festival https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/20e95a3a929f69df109dada4f00fa508.gif 4b0afc180b2402dd8144aaadd55d2df0 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f886ad1d2da3cd79705f6b7b7615befe.mp3 a7d0f138fd571604a1633869ae628e79 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evolution of Beekman Street (20th century-2016) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/13/16 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS: 113A Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource History of Beekman street, evolution of Beeekman, artist identities/roles, the future. Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wave file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Zotero Interviewee Amejo Amyot, M'elle Pirii-Lee, Cecilia Frittelli, Interviewer Jonah Brenner, Amanda Peckler, Yuelin He, Max Lowe, Dejon Bunn-Constant Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuelin He Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cecilia Frittelli Location The location of the interview 143 Grand Ave. Beekman Street, Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 37 minutes Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 16 bit, 44.1khz Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Yuelin He Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 12/12/2016 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview 00:00:05.28Header 00:00:23.03 Introduction. History of her business. Been around in textile industry for a long time. Born in Boston in 1958. Graduated in 1980 with a degree in theater design and in fiber arts. 00:04:23. Relationship with weaving. Father's influence. 00:05:39 Introduced to Beekman Street in 2001 by Amio. Did not find space until 2007. Involved with this street since the very inception. 00:08:36 Relationship with Amio. Nice vibe, history, and restaurant drew her to Beekman Street. Working and LIVING IN THE SAME AREA. Perfect and quiet place for artists to live and work. 00:10: 54 Artists on Beekman street. 00:15:14. The idea of showing the public the process of production. Lifestyle. Products with story. More excitement about products. 00:18:28. Adaptation to the art district community. 00:19:53 Economic crisis. Shop locally, shop meaningful. 00:21:14 Promotion of shop eco-friendly, local, small. 00: 22:44 Operation of the studio. 00:24:36 Add experience to business. Not just about selling the product. Lifestyle. The idea of making something beautiful and having some people appreciating it. 00:26:36 Customers composition and products. 00:27:27 Favorite moment with Beekman Street. Art Fair. Show case. Festive event. 00:29:36 Differences in working in big cities and working in small community 00:31:39 Challenges artists face. 00:34:22 The thriving history of Beekman Street and the current status. 00:35:36 Possibility to make Beekman Street thriving again. 00:36:17 Government needs to do more. 00:37: 24 End Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Cecilia Frittelli Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/07/2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Yuelin He Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource History of street, evolution, artists identities/roles, the future Language A language of the resource English oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0760a3d4e07b864ec4806f63eed488a0.png ad92cf235aec9c15623bcb2d4c77c6c8 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/a34a117f77a095db0c35022d9534cf90.mp3 523c3ff228a1ae1d88556d4d646f4673 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Flurry Festival Description An account of the resource The Flurry Festival is a three day music and dance Festival that takes place in Saratoga Springs in February. The festival holds workshops, performances, dances, and jam sessions in the city center and throughout the town. The Flurry first started as a dance festival for contra dancing but has expanded to musicians and spans all genres of music and dance as well as encompassing family friendly events such as storytelling. Language A language of the resource English Subject The topic of the resource The Flurry Festival Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies, Clara-Sophia Daly, Dustin Foote, Amanda Muir, Tess Olcott, Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Colin Liscord Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed John Guay Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Library room 128C Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Interviewee: John Guay Interviewer: Colin Liscord Location of Interview: Study Room 128C in Skidmore Library Date of Interview: 12/1/16 00:00:01- Header 00:00:31- Introduction, born September 21, 1944 in Biddeford Maine. Currently resides in Easton New York. 00:01:14- President one Flurry Dance Organization. Runs seventy dances a year. Flurry originated to help fund local dances. Been going for thirty years. 00:02:34- Started small, thirty local performers. Grown to 4700 performers from all around. 00:03:22- Mission statement, to inspire and connect people through traditional music and dance. 00:11:36- Contra dance evolved for the dancers. 00:12:06- Flurry has evolved, started techno contras. Draws youth in, happens at midnight. 00:19:47- Plays hammer dulcimer. 00:23:28- Important historic and community event. More than just music and dance, brings community together. 00:25:05- During the Flurry have different rooms in hotel have music lessons, historic lessons and dances. 00:27:05- Added more dances over the years. Jamming together in the halls. 00:28:04- Started to see high school kids come and play instruments and dance. 00:32:04- Revitalization of music. 00:35:20- would like to see more Skidmore students come play and dance. 00:36:31- Flurry more about dance. 00:37:27- Would never consider moving. Saratoga has a nice community feel for the Flurry. 00:38:34- Only dancing and music art forms. 00:41:01- Flurry unique, has beginning and experienced dancers. Organization needs to keep more experienced dancers around for this experience. 00:43:18- End. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Audio Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 43 minutes Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Colin Liscord Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/12/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with John Guay Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/1/2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. The Flurry Festival Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS 113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource Oral History interview with John Guay, president, musician and dancer of the Flurry Festival. Guay talks about how the Festival has changed over the years and the problems they have today. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Colin Liscord Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Flurry Festival -- History Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original Recording wav file. 16 bit 44.1KHz Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/1/16 oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/730185ca71ceaa47d45c9e65e0a23b09.jpg cdc3c38dddb3c800eb635577e421a702 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/20222186c6bd9b738489db9568bc7ddf.wav 65a9f8a6e9d2d18b3866fe4c93c84263 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evolution of Beekman Street (20th century-2016) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/13/16 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS: 113A Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource History of Beekman street, evolution of Beeekman, artist identities/roles, the future. Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wave file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Zotero Interviewee Amejo Amyot, M'elle Pirii-Lee, Cecilia Frittelli, Interviewer Jonah Brenner, Amanda Peckler, Yuelin He, Max Lowe, Dejon Bunn-Constant Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dejon Bunn-Constant Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed David Plaskett Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/12/2016 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Audio Recording Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Dejon Bunn-Constant Location The location of the interview 69 Beekman Street, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Interviewee: David Plaskett Interviewer: Dejon Bunn-Constant Location of Interview: Kitchen of Black Elks Lodge, 69 Beekman Street Date of Interview: 12/10/16 00:00:01.13: Header 00:00:12.02: Introduction. Resident of Saratoga Springs and Black Elks Lodge since 1998 00:00:59.37: Discussion on decline of participation of Black Elks Lodge and fraternities in general. Misconception on lodge and change from the festive, young, organized, active participation it used to have. Focus on functions of lodge - bar, parties. Loss of knowledge of history. 00:04:35.11: Recounts history of the Drill team as an integral part of what Elks used to be. Used to be source of pride and representation of Saratoga in competitions with other cities. Meetings and social gatherings used to be face of Black Elks. Community, support driven. 00:08:32.23: Clarifies racist history of Elks lodge - exclusion lead to need for Black fraternity members to create own space. Emphasis on sameness between Elks of all races despite division in history. 00:10:09.44: Mentions that Elks started in England. 00:13:13.07: Explains that original purpose of fraternal organizations was loving, giving. That purpose has been clouded. 00:14:12.58: Stresses importance of young membership, transparency of history key to people knowing the reason why they are joining, 00:15:19.23: Tells history of Frederick Allen in Saratoga Springs, organization of City Hall. 00:16:56.34: Remarks Black Elks Lodge being the first and last Black lodge in New York. Declares desire to keep Lodge alive due to racial significance in Saratoga. 00:19:14.17: Discusses exclusion and lack of appreciation of the lodge by the larger Saratoga community. Lack of funding and desire by townspeople to keep lodge alive. 00:21:47.05: Notes how lodge historically had auxiliary attractions to gain membership that no longer exists. 00:24:05.39: States belief that lodge should have membership drive as rejuvenation effort. 00:25:42.40: “Can We Talk” by Tevin Campbell starts playing in the distant background, remarked by Mr. Plaskett as he discusses meetings historically being members only. 00:26:43.18: Describes color guard - women in parades held by fraternities in past who would wave the fraternity’s flag and do a routine to introduce the fraternity being represented. 00:28:48.31: Not many original Elks members left to remember and recount history and legacy to newer generations. 00:31:03.04: Downplay of lodge’s legacy and importance by the rest of Beekman Street and the rest of Saratoga. Makes clear that the town actually wants to see the Arts District and the Lodge gone. 00:32:45.51: Arts District began being rented by people of too wealthy a class for artists to survive and maintain the businesses and homes they had along Beekman Street. Severity of the collapse, refinancing occurring around 2010. 00:37:14.01: Closing. Remarks importance of interviewer’s interest in the history of the Lodge and maintaining the narrative of the Lodge as a method to draw attention to it. Emphasis on knowledge of history as most powerful tool to use. Unsure if he believes Lodge should attempt to rejuvenate itself or let go of history, disappointed tone. 00:40:46.40: End. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 40:46 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with David Plaskett Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dejon Bunn-Constant Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file. 16 bit 44.1 khz Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/10/2016 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College. Description An account of the resource The overarching theme of the interview I conducted displays Mr. Plaskett's doubtful yet hopeful view for the future of the Lodge. He has been living in Saratoga and participating in the Lodge since 1998 - he has been an Elks member since his youth. As a senior citizen, he remarks the shift he has observed in the priorities and reasons why people join (or do not join) the lodge. Lastly, he focuses on the importance of knowing and maintaining the history of the Elk's lodge, as there has been blatant prejudiced disregard for the continuation of the lodge by the larger Saratoga community. He hopes that by keeping history alive and continuing the narrative, the essence of what Elkdom means to the Black Elks will be kept alive as well. Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/13/16 Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Beekman Street Arts District -- History oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8ea2b722eeea8123ac29729740b4b928.jpg 736c25be2ad08a45bfcb22b6fb6c1749 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9505fd1c09599a7cf16e19d9917a8940.mp3 9d6f079b52609a13d20d047ac10e1810 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evolution of Beekman Street (20th century-2016) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/13/16 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS: 113A Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource History of Beekman street, evolution of Beeekman, artist identities/roles, the future. Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wave file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Zotero Interviewee Amejo Amyot, M'elle Pirii-Lee, Cecilia Frittelli, Interviewer Jonah Brenner, Amanda Peckler, Yuelin He, Max Lowe, Dejon Bunn-Constant Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jonah Brenner Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Amejo Amyot Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Original recording wav Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47 min Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 16 bit, 44.1 khz Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 12/6/13 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview 00:00:00 Header 00:00:30 I’m Amejo Amyot and I live in Saratoga Springs, NY. I was born in Salamanca, NY on an Indian Reservation. 00:03:08 Discusses art classes in high school and how it was discouraged. 00:04:30 Saratoga Springs in the 1960s. 00:07:50 Discusses the history of Beekman Street before she started the project in 2000. There were 7 or 8 restaurants along Beekman Street. Mostly Italian people. 00:11:05 Urban renewal. They got rid of the historic nature of the city. 00:12:45 Talks about what sparked the creation of the art district and the influence that her time in Florida had on the project. 00:16:46 Efforts she took to get rid of crime in the neighborhood and make the area safe. 00:19:00 Artists were in the 3rd floors of Broadway buildings, but they were getting priced out. Artist did not have a place to go. That was the idea of Beekman. 00:22:00 Goals of the project. Live on the street, work on the street, street fairs, and foster a community. 00:22:45 Discusses how the city council was afraid of Artists. 00:25:25 Evolution of the street since the late 90s/early 2000s. 00:31:08 Artists involvement in the project and the different people that supported her. 00:32:36 Talks about the recession in 2008 and the impact it had on Beekman. 00:38:00 The major setbacks of the project and how the city did not continue to support the arts district. 00:39:50 Why the neighborhood will not come back as an arts district. 00:45:40 Discusses her favorite memory on the street. Jazz bands on the street that played every Friday night. It was the place to be. 00:47:19 End Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Amejo Amyot Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/13/16 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS 113A Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource Her life, Beekman Street, Reasons she started the project, How the street has changed over the years, The impact of the recession. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jonah Brenner Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/7/16 oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/a17adb2b6c0e75c6ebf2ca0d34cbe8bb.jpg 05a8b3f48408ac9e3ac5315fd81e8226 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f263f04145f8d9c09310b1629592326d.mp3 7f2cce58c5dd5ba8187fa0236c5eca68 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evolution of Beekman Street (20th century-2016) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/13/16 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS: 113A Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource History of Beekman street, evolution of Beeekman, artist identities/roles, the future. Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wave file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Zotero Interviewee Amejo Amyot, M'elle Pirii-Lee, Cecilia Frittelli, Interviewer Jonah Brenner, Amanda Peckler, Yuelin He, Max Lowe, Dejon Bunn-Constant Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Maximillian Lowe Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Geroge Demers Location The location of the interview WSPN Studio Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Audio Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 53:34 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview 00:00:00 Introduction 00:00:54 Moving to Saratoga 00:02:48 Getting priced out of Beekman street 00:04:54 Beekman street in the 1900s 00:07:05 The Saint Anothony's feast 00:08:40 Gangsters, prostitutes, and servants 00:10:30 East side vs west side 00:11:25 Kids hanging out 00:12:30 Youth group 00:15:15 Bureaucratic problems with the youth center 00:17:30 A lack of culture in Saratoga 00:18:00 Watercolor art 00:20:00 Living on the west side of Saratoga 00:21:53 New artists in Beekman 00:28:26 The lack of a Saratoga community 00:31:50 New Jersey Korean tacos 00:33:50 The future of Saratoga 00:37:00 WSPN radio 00:38:00 Authentic artists 00:41:45 Moving into the the Saratoga community 00:45:44 Saratoga's disconnected relationship with Skidmore students 00:50:10 The new Saratoga/closing thoughts Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 12/14/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with George Demers Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/14/2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Memory Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource George Demers is a longtime Saratoga resident with a relationship that dates back to the origins of Beakman Street. George discusses a unique perspective on Saratoga's art culture, or the lack thereof. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maximillian Lowe Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Beekman Street Arts District -- History oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/994f7263d69d49cba4362038c514dadb.jpg bda11e122e7641e9b4efcf4e1efbe898 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/29b306a9af46b5d70117b51c547e7531.mp3 6415d4862fbeb549c899184f2428345c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Flurry Festival Description An account of the resource The Flurry Festival is a three day music and dance Festival that takes place in Saratoga Springs in February. The festival holds workshops, performances, dances, and jam sessions in the city center and throughout the town. The Flurry first started as a dance festival for contra dancing but has expanded to musicians and spans all genres of music and dance as well as encompassing family friendly events such as storytelling. Language A language of the resource English Subject The topic of the resource The Flurry Festival Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies, Clara-Sophia Daly, Dustin Foote, Amanda Muir, Tess Olcott, Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Amanda Muir Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Paul Rosenberg Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data digital audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 61 minutes Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Amanda Muir Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/12/2016 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview 00:00:00 Introductions. 00:00:52 Flurry hosted Iraq war protests in 2003 and 1989. 00:01:30 Founding of the Flurry Festival in Guilderland, New York, held at Westmere Elementary School 00:05:05 First year of the Flurry Dance Festival was met with a snowstorm. 00:06:12 Drawing in crowds by having good callers, musicians, and word of mouth. Held a dawn dance. 00:08:20 The importance of the president’s day weekend in the Flurry festival 00:10:30 Best memory was watching the children have fun dancing. Wanted more family activities 00:12:00 Inspired by music workshops and jamming of Ashokan camp and worked to incorporate this aspect 00:13:00 Starting the final jam performance at the end of the festival. 00:15:16 Creating the festival name and the impact it had with non dancing participants 00:17:20 Introduction of concerts into the festival 00:18:12 Procrastinating on creating the program, starting committee meetings late. 00:18:50 Influence of the Old Songs Festival and Nancy Gretta in the creation of the Flurry Festival 00:20:00 Difficulty organizing the first Flurry festival with Old Songs Committee members 00:23:45 Adding workshops and dances created difficulty in choosing and organizing 00:25:25 Rising tensions with the school because of wear and tear on soccer field and floor wear as well as cleanup 00:26:43 Adding more committees as jobs were needed 00:27:26 Moved festival at last minute because a broken pipe destroyed the multi-room. Hurried to find a new location Joe Dalton, leader of the Saratoga chamber of commerce, suggested the Saratoga City Center, Saratoga music hall and Skidmore College. 00:29:55 Dislike of the hard floors of the City Center. Had no other options and made due 00:31:06 Success of location, excluding Skidmore College 00:32:21 Difficulty with parking and so used a shuttle 00:33:06 Saratoga downtown changed perspective of hosting dances at schools to city centers. 00:34:10 Working with the Hilton manager on booking rooms the first few years 00:36:05 Deciding to stay in Saratoga 00:36:20 Creation of a video of the festival was made in 1992 00:36:55 Heaviest snowstorm the festival had almost caused the event to fold if not for the community 00:38:25 Decided to get married at the Festival in 1992 and wore a tuxedo. Jim Greggory, created a dance to honor him and his new wife 00:40:54 Informing everyone when the festival moved suddenly to Saratoga Springs 4 weeks away from the day 00:42:23 Finding a welcoming community in Saratoga Springs 00:44:03 Expanding awareness of the Flurry, especially with Mae Banner from the Saratogian 00:46:41 Considering moving to Saratoga 00:47:15 Attempting to date while organizing the Flurry Festival 00:51:00 Effecting relationships with performers 00:52:19 Reflecting on all of his goals being accomplished in bringing a world together 00:55:12 Commenting on the lack of diversity of color 00:56:28 Switching pianos across town 00:57:42 Still getting nervous feelings opening night. 00:59:10 Love of seeing children, jamming, and diversity of offerings 01:00:05 Working on keeping Saratoga Music Hall from becoming court space 01:00:50 End Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Paul Rosenberg Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/2/2016 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource Interview with Paul Rosenberg, founder of the Flurry Festival and director of programs until 2005. Paul discusses the Festival's beginnings at an elementary school and the move to the City Center in Saratoga Springs. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Amanda Muir Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/2/2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Memory Project creator dance director Flurry music oral history programs The Flurry Festival https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/11fdca4550e5e2fae2b6c9d9b3b04e74.mp3 7fd8d83b1ccc146419a90e1cbc403248 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0820b301c08262c2bd676ad7276ef56f.jpg a131c649407fbceab4d1bf0d24ac384d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evolution of Beekman Street (20th century-2016) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/13/16 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS: 113A Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Description An account of the resource History of Beekman street, evolution of Beeekman, artist identities/roles, the future. Language A language of the resource English Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wave file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Zotero Interviewee Amejo Amyot, M'elle Pirii-Lee, Cecilia Frittelli, Interviewer Jonah Brenner, Amanda Peckler, Yuelin He, Max Lowe, Dejon Bunn-Constant Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Amanda Peckler Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed M'elle Pirri-Lee Location The location of the interview 62 Beekman Street Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 47 minutes Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview Interviewee- M’elle Pirri-Lee Interviewer- Amanda Peckler Location of Interview: Saratoga Healing Arts Center on 62 Beekman Street Date of Interview: 12/3/2016 00:00 Header 00:25 Introduction. Born May 1962 Denver, Colorado. 00:47 Lived in Denver until 9 years old. Grew up w parents and little brother. Parent divorce and mother lost job. Mother and her moved to Schenectady, NY. Family already lived in Northeast. 02:07 At 9 years old in 1st grade, family would travel to Adirondacks. Describes beauty of trees of NE that she wasn’t used to in Colorado. 02:50 Lived in Schenectady until age 22. Moved to Syracuse, Poughkeepsie. 2000 moved to Amsterdam. 2001 moved to town of Glen. Moved to Saratoga a few years later. 03:35 Describes her interest in alternative health and how it led her to Saratoga Springs. Originally on Region’s Street, which used to be Skidmore’s theater where current Bloom yoga studios are. 04:46 Met Joanne Halloran, a naturopathic doctor in Saratoga, who enabled M’elle to start up her private practice. 05:37 Discusses the spiritual healing history of Saratoga and the mineral springs. How it drew people to Saratoga because of the Saratoga Resort and the mineral healing baths. 07:12 Tells us about her specialized practice of myofascial release, similar to a massage bc used hands on body for healing. Discusses what fascia is and its purpose in and on our body. 10:59 Tells story of what inspired/ influenced her into this practice. Picked up on it in P.T school. Put this interest aside after graduating until 9/11. Just married to husband who was in National Guard, got called to be on duty during 9/11. Describes the stress and trauma of the situation being apart from husband. In order to stay busy, she would spend time doing agility classes w/ dog. On her ride home one day after being bombarded by people asking how her husband was doing when she had no way to contact him/ know how he was doing, realized she wants try something “fun and new”. Gets letter about taking classes on myofascial release. 14:44 Worked at a Developmental Center with people with developmental disabilities. Helped w/ those who had limited range of motion physically. Had one patient who was blind & suffered from spastic circumduction gait. Could not walk. Doctor would get mad at M’elle saying she was not “aggressive” enough when treating his range of motion. As gentle as she was, he would whimper and show signs of fear whenever he would hear her coming or hear her voice. When she started using myofascial release concepts and allowed time rather than simply stretching do the work, she saw positive results & less fear and pain felt by patient. 16:59 Husband went to Iraq w/ National Guard Unit. M’elle continued to take classes to keep busy. Set goal to start private practice that would deal solely w myofascial release. 17:56 Discusses how Beekman street in particular enabled her practice to blossom/ be made possible for herself. Found a home on Beekman once she visited the space for the first time. Felt it was an open and warm place, well-suited for the safety she wanted her patients to feel who she aims to help them through the healing they need. Loved the small community of the Arts District. 19:15 15 years ago, movement created to make this area into the “Arts district” to counter the “unsafe” reputation she describes the location had prior due to drugs. The locals wanted to “take back their neighborhood” and create space for artists to come and find live/work situations and produce art. Buildings became reclaimed. Named the building “Saratoga Healing Arts” so, they would fit in with the Arts District. 21:00 Discusses her personal connection to art through the non-traditional and complexity involved with the healing arts. Views every patient as an individual, can’t make assumptions about what they will need. Talks about perspective on different types of healing being their own kind of “art forms”. 22:50 A challenge she runs into on Beekman street is that she doesn’t take insurance & people are not used to that. Parking is also an issue because of restaurants. People who have trouble walking will have issues w/ physical access to getting to practice. 25:16 Agrees with the notion that Beekman street is a location where outsider’s come and find their own place within. Describes the eclectic mix of personalities and neighbors along the street, both in businesses and people who live there. Street fair in June, showcases the community and the artist district. 26:33 Tells story about the time she broke her wrist in May & couldn’t work. Set up a go-fund me account to pay for meals & many friends and neighbors on Beekman donated $$, gift cards, delivered food, help with anything. Felt strong sense of support and being included in the community. 28:40 Describes the openness she sees in the Saratoga area to alternative spiritual practices. Open churches & meditation sessions for anyone no matter their faith or even no-faith. Yoga in the park. Library meditations post 2016 election. Talks about that this is a call for Saratogians to take a stand for what is right, say no to discrimination and racism, and say yes to inclusion. 30:34 Creates a safe space in her practice especially in light of the election. Deals w/ physical trauma which is tied to emotional trauma. Creates a judgement free zone for patients to process whatever emotions may come up during a session. Tries best to keep politics out of the conversations she’ll have during sessions w patients so, that no matter who the person is & who they voted for, it is a safe space for them to process. 32:39 Recounts moments she had to handle situations where patients were emotional during a session. Things like mourning a death of loved one. Had to understand how to handle it if someone is vulnerable especially young people campaigning during the election who felt disenfranchised afterwards. 34:01 “Any emotion you express is a good emotion” 34:17 Discusses the importance of creating a safe emotional space for other human beings. Explains her feelings on those who are in chronic pain are held back from total healing due to this societal trend which encourages us to bottle up our emotions. “Big boys don’t cry.” “Big girls don’t get upset or get angry” There are physical implications tied to containing our emotions. “Issues are in our tissues” 35:48 Words of mentor, John Barnes “If you know what you’re doing before entering the room, you don’t know what you’re doing” (in regards to emotional knowledge of patients beyond their physical condition). Discusses how she handles having patients explain their stories to her that have led them to seek out her practice. 38:43 Always been part of a community even as she moved to a new place bc of family connections. Reflected on her difficult time connecting and believing in the “specifics of the Presbyterian church” which she had to join as a 13 year old girl. Believed in a higher power, but questioned the belief in the father, son, and holy ghost components of the religion. Felt guilty & couldn’t lie. Mother was accepting of this and encouraged her to explore other churches/ places of worship in neighborhood. Never really found anything she felt most connected to, but still remained open until this day. 41:46 Felt part of church community and events & singing. But, reciting prayers she didn’t believe in didn’t sit well with her. Would come to coffee hours and come to services for her joy of music, but never joined church. 43:19 Discusses her love of learning about other religions and cultures. Also, likes to focus on what makes those different practices similar to one another rather than the differences as a way of making the world a better, more harmonious place. “To have small differences in dogma or doctrine become so divisive in our country, I find very sad.” 44:44 Some of the similarities she found as a result of exploring different faiths as a 13 year old girl and throughout her life consist of: there is a higher power no matter what the name is, caring for fellow human beings and animals of this planet, being of service is important, and not judging. 46:00 Shares thoughts on positive experience living and working in Saratoga. Small town w/ many different amenities. 47:14 End Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with M'elle Pirri-Lee Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/3/16 Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/6/16 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Amanda Peckler Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS 113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College. Language A language of the resource English Abstract A summary of the resource. M'elle Pirri-Lee, a licensed physical therapist at the Saratoga Healing Arts Center located right on Beekman Street, takes us into the realm of alternative medicine. She shares the importance and power in healing using methods such as physical therapy especially in times of hardship from her experience helping those with developmental and traumatic physical and emotional experiences. M'elle's narrative is one which brings great value to the evolving community that Beekman Street has always been known for. She also provides us a deeper look into providing and helping upkeep a safe emotional space in her practice and in the world around her. Description An account of the resource Oral history Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Beekman Street Arts District -- History Extent The size or duration of the resource. 46 minutes oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/715dfe378e724755269c14479a0ed997.jpg c0cfe1a3511d9eb1ea6a72868979dad4 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2a64abe0904f1b23ab55f655b1a1d5f9.mp3 3181ae5dc23a0fb0a868739603a20c1b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Flurry Festival Description An account of the resource The Flurry Festival is a three day music and dance Festival that takes place in Saratoga Springs in February. The festival holds workshops, performances, dances, and jam sessions in the city center and throughout the town. The Flurry first started as a dance festival for contra dancing but has expanded to musicians and spans all genres of music and dance as well as encompassing family friendly events such as storytelling. Language A language of the resource English Subject The topic of the resource The Flurry Festival Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies, Clara-Sophia Daly, Dustin Foote, Amanda Muir, Tess Olcott, Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dustin Foote Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Douglas C. Haller Location The location of the interview Residence of Interviewee Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Digital Audio Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 41:14 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Dustin Foote Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/12/2016 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview Interviewer: Dustin Foote Interviewee: Doug Haller Log Notes 00:00-00:29 Header 00:30-02:30 Doug talks about background in Schenectady 03:00-04:17 After Doug divorces his first wife, he discovers his passion of contra dancing 04:20-08:24 Description and history of contra dancing 08:32-10:10 Describes his first experience at the flurry 10:25-10:56 “contradancing was a great opportunity to meet new people and make new friends” 11:15-12:45 Pervasiveness of contradancing across the country 12:53-14:09 Doug meets his second wife contradancing 14:10-17:36 Diverse styles of dancing at the flurry; Paul Rosenburg mentioned 17:47-20:40 Doug speaks of the different roles he has had on the flurry administration 20:40-21:59 Current administrative roles in the flurry 22:00-24:17 What kind of people attend the flurry? 24:36-26:54 What keeps Doug coming back to the flurry? “I think the flurry helps the world become a better place, just for a little bit of time.” 27:19-31:43 Doug gives a personal anecdote on why the flurry is so significant. “It would be nice if the world were more like the flurry the rest of the year.” 31:44-32:31 What would you tell your 1992 self about this festival 32:37-38:55 Doug talks about being the administrative director of the flurry during a power outage, mentions the community response. “these people are not going to let you fail, and they didn’t” 36:20-37:07 How the flurry ended up in Saratoga 39:05-40:00 What do you want the future of the flurry to look like? 40:23-41:09 Doug’s final thoughts on involvement in the flurry festival Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Doug Haller Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/3/2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. The Flurry Festival Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College. Description An account of the resource Interview with Doug Haller, ex-Administrative Director of the Flurry Festival. Topics include the development of the festival and Doug's experiences organizing the Flurry. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dustin Foote Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12/3/16 Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Flurry Festival -- History dance Doug Haller Flurry music oral history Saratoga Springs The Flurry Festival https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d4ee2f6a1e8a827a5672709d7b10507a.jpg abc035b91f081203c0b83bbfffe56736 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2517f175df1dd6f0ac7f89d103f9150a.mp3 6cb93cd6036977fb4168abcdb78f2670 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Flurry Festival Description An account of the resource The Flurry Festival is a three day music and dance Festival that takes place in Saratoga Springs in February. The festival holds workshops, performances, dances, and jam sessions in the city center and throughout the town. The Flurry first started as a dance festival for contra dancing but has expanded to musicians and spans all genres of music and dance as well as encompassing family friendly events such as storytelling. Language A language of the resource English Subject The topic of the resource The Flurry Festival Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jennifer Davies, Clara-Sophia Daly, Dustin Foote, Amanda Muir, Tess Olcott, Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Amanda Muir Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Peter Davis Location The location of the interview Room 128B, Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data digital audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 53:34 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Amanda Muir Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 8/12/2016 Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview 00:00:00 Introductions 00:00:32 Discusses role of program director 00:01:28 Relationship to Paul Rosenberg, becoming the flurry program director 00:03:17 Asks wife how to strategize taking on the Flurry organization. Turns to computers 00:04:18 First year directing the festival, a power outage occurred in the city center while the weather became colder 00:07:25 Brought in swing music, the vision of Paul Rosenberg 00:08:30 Restructured the guidelines to increase profit for organization and increase younger attendance 00:10:40 Hired younger bands to increase youth attendance and added more youth oriented programing 00:12:20 Expanded the Flurry festival reach to a national scope, while still including local bands, teachers, and performers 00:14:20 Set up specific event for little kids and teens with help from board members 00:16:05 Remincing of sense of community at first Flurry festival. 00:16:50 Placed in a swing dance workshop at Old Songs Festival, met Jay Unger and Molly Mason who were big influences in the beginning of the Flurry Festival 00:17:30 Early swing dancing at the Flurry. Played the band at the festival and helped spread the word of the festival to more swing dancers 00:19:17 Played as a musician at the Flurry along with his son Ben 00:20:30 Maintained and increased the diversity in music and dance, added techno contra dance along with urban and traditional dance forms 00:23:50 Advertising the amount of music and songs available 00:24:25 Grant outreach through the Flurry Organization to underprivileged organizations to give them attendance to the festival 00:26:14 Increased positivity and support from the Saratoga community, specifically businesses 00:28:05 The flurry festival community. Hired musicians discovering the Flurry for the first time 00:30:07 Support of flurry community through financial troubles 00:31:00 Effects of the cold weather on the festival programmers and participants 00:33:25 Enjoying the Flurry. The difficulty of programming the events 00:36:20 Final performance was a medley of musicians at the festival that jammed including the Midwestern Swing 00:38:30 Watching the new people see the huge contra dances 00:39:30 Explaining the Flurry experience to non participants 00:42:20 The role the Flurry plays in Peter Davis’ life, looking towards the future 00:45:03 Considering the attendance of workshops and events 00:45:40 Positives and negatives of program director, writing a decline to a workshop teacher 00:46:50 The directors and departments on the Flurry Organization board 00:49:30 Desire to have support from local colleges and student performances 00:53:20 End Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Peter Davis Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 12/8/2016 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available DS113A: Storytelling Interviewing, Skidmore College Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Amanda Muir Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource An interview with Peter Davis, the program director of the Flurry Festival from 2006- present day. Peter discusses the nuts and bolts of creating the schedule and how it changed from Paul Rosenberg's direction to the current form. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Original recording wav file, 16 bit 44.1 khz Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga Springs -- Flurry Festival -- History City Center dance director Flurry music oral history Peter Davis programs The Flurry Festival https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/21b541fa7db6ea24fea6d25f5fc25b01.jpg d6502daf57a440dbd90fa2c69d73ebf0 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1656d9a9fafa3aad56818cde4a776886.m4a 10cfe432253601e370db48357515963d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5ff9afbd51bc890de041ff626c0bdf45.pdf 291408eee218adb57edd066c881cf180 PDF Text Text 1 Roe-Raymond Interview with Travis Roe-Raymond by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Oral History Project, Skidmore College, NY June 2nd, 2018 Harry Sultan: So if I could just have you introduce yourself. Travis Roe-Raymond: My name is Travis Roe-Raymond and I was in the class of 2008 at Skidmore College. HS: Great, and what did you major in? TRR: I majored in Religious studies HS: Now was that something you knew you wanted to major in before coming to Skidmore? TRR: I had no idea what I was going to study for, or major in when I came here, but before I'd started in college I had started to learn more about yoga and meditation and so when I was starting to figure out what I wanted to do it was really just about taking different classes and so I really had no idea going in and after - I want to say - maybe a semester or two I was like, you know what I really like these classes. HS: You started yoga before Skidmore? TRR: What's that? HS: You started taking yoga before Skidmore? TRR: So I started, yea, I started doing you know meditation and stuff before I even came to Skidmore. My father had gotten into it and that's how I learned about it. HS: And where are you from that you were doing yoga TRR: Yea, central New Jersey, so Princeton New Jersey area. Yea, yea. HS: So you came to Skidmore, decided to take a bunch of classes, could you give me a short list of the different types of classes that you took? TRR: Yea sure so I took, let's see. I took a religious studies course, a religion and violence course - which was really fascinating because this was only a few �2 Roe-Raymond years after, um, the 9/11, so that was really fascinating. Um took courses on religion and contemporary American society so that was on learning about the Branch Dividians in Waco Texas and what makes a group a cult and what makes a group not a cult um. I also took calculus. I also took, I took an arts sculpture class the first year which I feel I don't have a creative bone in my body and so I took that and it was really nice to do something very different, it was the only class I took in that section. I took sociology courses which I really really liked, that had a big impact. And I also took some Psychology courses so really, ran the gamut on all sorts of courses. HS: And did you find by taking all these classes you could pull connections between them throughout college? TRR: Absolutely, it was very much interdisciplinary. And when I was doing the religious studies major, the background of courses they wanted you to take were very much grounded in interdisciplinary approach; so you know you gotta learn about the major thinkers in psychology and sociology and these other areas. So absolutely it was very much integrated and I loved that. It's funny though after college the most challenging thing is people ask like 'what'd you study?' I was like 'religious study'. And they're like 'oh were you trying to become like a religious leader or something?'. 'No no it was purely academic' so you always have to explain that away. HS: And so you get to Skidmore, you don't know what you want to do, but do you remember your first couple of days on campus? TRR: The first few days were, I think for most folks it was such a big adjustment. I remember really trying to get a lay of the land in terms of, everybody's feeling each other out, you know they had a couple folks who would sort of lead you through, 'Hey there's an event going on at the gym' or through these different places, but I was really just trying to get a feel for where �3 Roe-Raymond everybody was and what they liked to do and how I could connect with people. So it was definitely, you know you're out of your comfort zone as it is for most and I just remember just trying to navigate that. I don't think it was terrifying, but I don't think it was easy either and slowly over time it became better. HS: And do you remember your actual first night? Did you hang out with your roommate? Did you go out partying? TRR: My first night, I want to say that there was a upperclassman who, I don't know if they were assigned explicitly or not but they were, they took it upon themselves to gather the new folks whether it was in Johnson Tower or somewhere else and say 'Hey lets all hang out. We're gonna go down to', I think we went down to the auditorium and saw some sort of performance of you know dancers or something like that. And so that was really what the first night was. I was really just in a flock of freshmen and going around with them. And you know it was really nice, I think what was nice was the leader, the person sort of guiding us around was of course very nice and very open and that made it better and actually from that group there was one or two folks that I actually stayed friends with. HS: And going through those three or four years did you have that sort of close knit group of friends? TRR: The, I had a little bit of a division and it was from freshmen, sophomore, and then into junior year and then when I studied abroad; that was somewhat of a line of demarcation. So previous to that there were a few folks that I had befriended, ever since when I came back we sort of went separate ways a little bit and of course before I went, studied abroad, there were a few friends I was hanging out with after but that was a little bit of a divider and I think the reason was because when I got back from study �4 Roe-Raymond abroad and maybe just going to study abroad, it made me realize 'oh my gosh' you know, college is going to be over soon. Not too far off. And you need think about the real world and whats going on and I remember that just being a big mental shift. Because freshmen, sophomore year you're really just trying to get into what is it to be in college, how am I relating to other people, what do I want to study and learn about. But for me it was never, Oh cause I'm going to use this in the real world. After study abroad I was like, wait a second I really need to think about the real world? HS: Where did you study abroad? TRR: I studied in Paris. And Jordana was in charge, Professor Dym and it was a, it was actually a history department program that went over there and it was great. She was studying things around travel in, I want to say 16th century Europe or just medieval Europe. And so that was really the topic. You weren't supposed to know a lick of French. I happened to know some French and so when I got there I was sort of in this tweener group, I didn't know no French but I also wasn't at the expert level that the French majors were doing and so I had to sort of decide which groups I wanted to be taking courses in and all that but that was a wonderful experience that I think I'll never forget. Very powerful. HS: Is there one memory that really stuck out? TRR: Yes um. Our professor instead of having a normal class which we were supposed to that day, she took us um. You know she had a budget for us in terms of when we could take trips and where would go and so our group of maybe 10 students, she took us to a restaurant called Le Grande Vefour which is right downtown Paris and it is one of the very fine dining you know, three star Michelin restaurants - I don't know if it actually was - and we went there for lunch. And you know, if you know any, going into a nice �5 Roe-Raymond restaurant, lunch is a good way to get in because it's just cost effective but even so we had this 8 course meal, with all these special dishes and things to cleanse your palette in between and by the end of it you know thinking how special that meal was, like I never, and never have since had had as nice a meal as that. So that was a really special experience. HS: So you get back from Paris. You're back at Skidmore, you're thinking about the real world. Is there anything from your trip to Paris by studying abroad that you brought back with you to kind of help that transition? TRR: In what sense? HS: Cause I feel like people when they go abroad, you're outside of the Skidmore bubble, you're in a new city, it's a faux adulthood. TRR: Yea exactly, well said. HS: So did you bring any lifestyle advice from your own experience TRR: I think again it goes back to what I was saying before around realizing that being outside of the Skidmore bubble and realizing, yea what do you want life to look like outside, after school. What life do you want to have for yourself? Where do you want to live? Not like I was harboring any thoughts about living in France, but yea it did, it made me think about, 'Okay you know I have only this much time left at school. This is what I'm studying and majoring in um, how do I want to turn this into a career.' I think career was really a big focus and coming out of the study abroad, it was fascinating because France is interesting right I mean you go down the street and it's very similar to being in America. There's parking signs and people walking down the street, but you learn quickly that there are subtle differences. And that, there's a whole history behind all the different things that happened - the French revolution - all these different things that lead to these subtle differences on the surface but then bigger differences in �6 Roe-Raymond peoples beliefs underneath the surface and I think that had a profound impact on how I was thinking about wanting to be in the world when I came back. So I think that was another one. HS: And so looking back you think you would have told yourself; If you could go back and tell yourself "do something different" or "definitely don't change a thing" do you have any advice you would give your former self TRR: I don't know if I, I don't think I would have told myself to go a different path in terms of what classes I took. I was really grateful I took such a breadth of classes. I always wanted to be the person that knew exactly what they wanted to do and just drill deep into that area but as I've gone through time it just doesn't happen that way, it just doesn't work that way. So I think I would have said 'Hey, do what you were doing' I felt like I was able to take advantage of things the way I wanted and maybe if anything, I might have told myself, you know, 'stretch out a little bit more, try even some other classes that you may never have taken the last time around'. HS: Are there any classes you remember not taking that you regret not taking-- TRR: Kind of wanted to? I would've liked to have taken a little more like art and sculpture classes. Just that physical aspect of art. That would have been really cool. Because it did have something of an impression on me when I did the one and I remember in the Northwoods they wanted us to do some sort of project in nature. So what I did was I took these stones and I made what I believe is called a cairn. Which is sort of like this pyramidical shape that you use to sort of mark a trail. And so I went out there and it took weeks and weeks to build this small, not very big cairn. And that was a process that I strangely really connected to and I was surprised that I had. And so that kind of thing made me lead to, "gosh I would've loved to take more art and sculpture classes" �7 Roe-Raymond HS: And so outside of academics were you part of any clubs? TRR: I did, I was part of the Skidmore Cycling Club, believe it or not. So at the time there were a few upperclassmen who had started this club and they had gotten a formidable budget for it so we could really go through the competitive collegiate cycling scene. And that was a great experience. I had received an informal scholarship - it wasn't an official scholarship - to play lacrosse at Skidmore and you know, about three quarters of the way into the first year, my freshmen year, I was just burned out, I wasn't enjoying it. I think just from years and years of playing the sport, it brought me a lot, but I just - it was the middle of winters and I just decided after thinking about it for weeks and weeks, I said I'm done, and I stopped it and so I was looking for something else and cycling was a big thing. And I was also able to do choir and sing and do that because that was something I'd done in high-school and middle school and I still, though I'm not singing now that is another thing that I did that I still enjoy doing. HS: So you sang in high-school, did you cycle in high-school? TRR: I didn't cycle in high-school but I worked at a bike shop for like 8 years. SO at the end of middle school, the local bike shop was looking for someone to work for them and I started doing that. And that was a great process because you know, yea you learn about bikes and all that stuff but that's a big experience when you're, you know, an 8th grader, you're learning all those skills of how to talk to people and how to work with people and that was a really important experience in terms of learning how to problem solve and learning how to work with people and understand what their needs are and stuff like that. So yea I was a bike mechanic and that's how I got around it, and then you know the Tour de France would come around and you'd see Lance Armstrong winning these bike races and that lead to �8 Roe-Raymond after, while I was doing lacrosse I was like "oh I would love to learn how to do road biking" and that's kind of how it started. HS: So was biking a big part of your trip to Paris? TRR: It was supposed to be. So I had my road bike all packed up in a special box to bring over. And of course we took Air France over. And we went over. And of course it didn't show up. And making phone calls and trying to get in touch with them. I think it was two months into my three month stint in Paris when we actually got it. And the only way I think we were even able to get the bike found was luckily my father worked with some people at some of these larger corporations who could reach out to Air France and say 'hey, you gotta help'. I think. So it was very much just luck, finally found it, finally got the bike when I was almost at the end of my trip and I just remember how cool it was being able to ride my bike on the first time ever to ride my bike on foreign soil. And in France which is kind of the hallowed cycling sort of center of the universe so that was a really crazy experience HS: And what was it like the scenery wise in Saratoga versus the cycling in France? TRR: I think, I only got to ride a little bit in France and I wasn't able to get anything competitive, it was really just I'd just go out for little short rides and so coming back senior year I was trying to race competitively in college. And there was less support in the club. Some of the folks, unfortunately there were some, there was a little bit of scandal where we found out some of the founders were actually fabricating receipts to - they were fabricating receipts that they had gone to races and spent all this money that they'd never even gone to. So I heard that those folks got a slap on the wrist and that was it, but I had to give a sworn affidavit to the police �9 Roe-Raymond and all this stuff so it was kind of a big deal. But anyways, I just found that afterwards it was, yea I was trying to really enjoy my last year and so cycling was a big part of that and I was also trying to see if some people that were younger, coming up in Skidmore would get into the club as well. There was actually one gentleman who ended up carrying the mantel and doing some things here. But he took it I think in less of a racing direction and took it more in a nonprofit, helping people get access to bikes direction. And so that was the experience. HS: And is there anything at your time at Skidmore, you're really happy to see is kind of the same? TRR: Well coming back, it's nice to see that things look just aesthetically the same. It's such a beautiful campus. And it's very idealic in that way. It was nice to see that generally everything is how you left it; yes of course its grown and they've put some new things here. You know one thing that was really nice was to run into, to be able to see a former professor and that's something that I feel like I'm really grateful to have the professors I've had ten years ago are now chairs of their department here and it's been really nice being able to connect with them. A few years ago I was dabbling with the idea of graduate school in certain areas and possibly even doctoral programs and they were a huge resource. Even though I hadn't talked to them in six, seven years to be like "Hey, I'm reaching out about this" and they were really great about giving me some really honest feedback about "hey listen. What are you interested in. What are you looking to do in graduate school. and these are our thoughts". So it's been nice to be able to come back, talk with some people, walk around, you know, retrace your steps a little bit. It's so funny how that never gets old. Everybody wants to remember what it was like to, you know, have a certain memory when �10 Roe-Raymond somebody was, ya know, if somebody went to a party and got a little crazy and you see them at the dining hall. All sorts of idiosyncratic stories like that it's nice to see; walk through those areas and relive it so. HS: Has there been a spot on campus, a building you've seen or a place that you've walked by that brought you back to when you were a student? TRR: Case center. Just walking through there and just kind of, you know, the scene, seeing people around on their computers going down - I don't know if they still have it for students now, but they had mailboxes for us. And I remember at the time, I think the biggest thing is just seeing what has changed in the times. So I remember going to my mailbox and pulling out a Netflix DVD that was in the envelope. Like it's amazing something as simple as that has just changed so dramatically. HS: Is there anything that you wish would have changed since you graduated? TRR: It's hard to say. I'd like to say that I was more integrated into the goings on at Skidmore. I feel a little bit more like I hope that things are staying the same in the sense of, my wife and I had very different experiences in undergrad. She went to Rice University, went on to get her doctoral at University of Michigan and then I never went to graduate school but for my work I did do other certifications. And it was so funny how we had such a different experience because she didn't do - I think the school she went to was technically considered liberal arts but what I loved about here that I'm happy stays the same, or I think stays the same is the sort of small class environment and the ability for a professor to say "hey, read this, or go through this information, we're going to come back in and talk about it" but what the professor would do was he or she would facilitate it so they would say "hey, what did you think" and stop and hope most people who read it would then say "oh well I thought this" or "I thought that" and then the �11 Roe-Raymond professor would guide you, not try to, not take over the conversation but guide you on "okay well tell me more about that?" or "what did other people think about that?" and it just lead to these amazing conversations. The ability to hear other peoples' perspectives without being, you know sometimes you could enter the realm of things where people have different backgrounds and it could be maybe a little offensive so I really appreciated that. One thing that I'm worried about that I hope isn't changing, I think there's been some really important changes you know with the MeToo movement, and some of the new fears around discrimination, racism, gender, sexism, things like that, and I hope that as that's all happening, I hope that people are still given the space to kind of respectively give their opinion even if it's not perfectly along party lines so to speak. Because one thing I was hearing - so right now I'm a financial planner, so I work with professors at all sorts of schools and one comment I was hearing from one art professor down in New Jersey who was retiring, he was saying that, he said "oh well you know unfortunately I've heard some comments that professors now have to be very careful saying something that's even seemingly benign because theres a lot more sensitivity to how it could be interpreted". And obviously theres a line on what's right and wrong to do but they did give me kind of some pause to think,"gosh I wonder how it is now". So I just hope that there is that sense of hearing different perspectives and being respectful to them HS: So is that not something that you had to worry about when you were a student? TRR: I just felt like the professors at Skidmore would, they would do a really good job of saying, "okay I'm going to ask a question about something that is controversial" especially I remember during the religion and violence �12 Roe-Raymond course. So we were trying to look at the steps that the - for the lack of a better term - terrorists took when they crashed the plane into the World Trade Center, and we were trying to look at it less from a, lets just straight up demonize them, and more of a, okay if we're playing devil's advocate or we're trying to understand their side, what do you see? And we were talking about Osama Bin Laden and you know it's very easy, in that time it's very easy to say well they're bad and they're horrible and that's all there is to it. Well there's a lot more to it. It's just this aspect of the professor saying "listen we need to look at these other perspectives because it's not good enough to simply typecast somebody or some thing because you're not going to understand as much" so we learned a lot more about the us versus them language and the fact that Osama Bin Laden, as much as he did horrible things and represented very negative things. He also was very smart and had very, was very good at his rhetoric and how to shape ideas and thoughts to his means, or his ends rather. So that was, those were some valuable experiences. HS: And did any of these conversations drift out into social life or dorm life or were your academic and social life completely separate? TRR: Well they did in the sense that, when I was there - I was there from 2004 till 2008 - and so when I was there it was the presidential elections with John Kerry and George W. Bush for a second term and that absolutely leaked out all the time. So I remember in my religious studies class with Professor Mary Stange talking about it, and obviously we're at a liberal arts school so most - I don't know anybody who was actually for President Bush - but, god you could just feel the energy on campus when George W. Bush wins again. It's so interesting looking back on that now after what's happened in 2016 which truly paints an interesting juxtaposition. So yea that'd bleed out �13 Roe-Raymond a lot and we would talk about it. I don't know if I had super structured social forums for us being like "hey, you know let's talk about the elections" but it definitely leaked out. HS: And what about downtown life? TRR: Downtown life, I was, it's funny, for me Skidmore was very much a bubble even from the town a lot. I ended up working at a local bike shop, I worked at the Saratoga Ice Rink. When the parents would come into town we'd be able to go to a restaurant or something like that. I didn't have a terrible amount of either community engagement or sort of interaction with the downtown. Maybe I'd walk through town or something like this, but it wasn't a whole lot; because it's just amazing how one, the academic things that you're trying to take care of on Skidmore, for me, just kept me here. And I like that, but it was also very insulating, you just kind of forget that everything else is out there. So I didn't have a terrible amount of interaction, probably the most was just biking in and out of town constantly to go out on long rides with the group and things like that. But I didn't have a huge interaction. The only thing was really Caroline Street, you know that was the place where everybody went to kind of let loose and if you wanted to, if you were of age and wanted to drink, and I remember the place, there was a pizza place you'd get doughboys and I remember that being a big thing. HS: And now that you're, when you found you were going to be coming back was there any establishment in Saratoga that you were really looking forward to going to? TRR: Country Corner was big, that was big. I think just because when you come back you remember it as amazing, and you come back and you're like "alright this wasn't amazing" but it's still just that memory. So Country �14 Roe-Raymond Corner, Putnam Market was also another place I looked forward to going to. So I'd say those were the two big ones. HS: Any last stories that you really want to tell? TRR: I do remember. I do remember, I don't know what they were doing but there was some sort of run that was happening outside Johnsson Park and I don't know if this happens every year or what. And I wasn't participating in it, but a group of folks, I don't know if they were part of the Wombats - the frisbee team - or what, I don't know, but a group of folks decide that they're going to strip down naked with running shoes on and go do a naked run. So I don't know if that's down now but I just remember hearing it and just, I thought it was absolutely hilarious. So. HS: Cool thanks so much. TRR: Yea thanks so much. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sultan, Harry Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Roe-Raymond, Travis, '08 Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Travis Roe Raymond, '08 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sultan, Harry, 17 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng,) Description An account of the resource Roe Raymond, '08, majored in religious studies, is from central New Jersey. He remembers the first night on campus as having some returning students come to Jonsson Tower and invite first years to join them at an event. That welcome helped break the ice. His major required lots of interdisciplinary study, including in sociology. He studied abroad in Paris, learning about history and travel. Living in France and outside the "Skidmore bubble" helped him decide how to focus on how best to use his remaining semesters on campus. He was part of Skidmore's Cycling Club, and also sang in the chorus. His bike, meant to be a large part of the Paris study-abroad experience, was waylaid by the airline, and arrived with only a month to spare. He was able to reconnect with his professors when applying to graduate school, and appreciated their being 'a huge resource.' He appreciated the open converstions in classrooms, and how faculty guided conversations rather than dictating. The importance of looking at all sides, and hearing different perspectives with respect, was very important to his program, particularly a course on religion and violence which considered the September 2001 attacks. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording alumni cycling cycling club finance interdisciplinary oral history Paris religious studies Skidmore College study abroad https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/330482596733b29ce36ec19eec2c7620.jpg 42d6594fa4b7d43862815d133d7bf861 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fe4b75c9384f20b503784a7295e001cd.m4a 41a1eb0aa8d778518c5a1718c8df525d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2758b22bbb751b30b534451a60a8c1e9.jpg eedc0a49cdc09f06aeca67cab8e0705b https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e53a2903a4b769a9a60dc88e2b0b2015.jpg b34953359fc4ea11b9b80566a66b44e5 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6ac8c8ada256bff471f21c221d2bd36d.jpg 53ff1f93fe7b3227d9ec58fe42deccbf https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c47094ffa5f9c7692a2a8c255de64378.pdf 79487377c3616602157dfa4858f8461d PDF Text Text 1 Cohen & Carr Interview with Emily Cohen and Jennifer Carr by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Saratoga Memory Project, Skidmore College, NY June 1st 2018 Harry Sultan: Could I have you introduce yourselves? Emily Cohen: I'm Emily Cohen, Emily Diminiani Cohen. Class of 1988 Jennifer Carr: I'm Jennifer Carr and I'm also class of 1988 HS: And how did you two meet? JC: We met on our move in day of our freshmen year, so 1984. September. But we met on the phone prior to that. Emily gave me a phone call after you get your letter - back in those days you got an actual delivered letter that explained who your roommate was and what interests my overlap. And Emily phoned and we had a fun conversation. HS: Do you remember that conversation? JC: Do you? EC: Bits and pieces, I think you probably remember more than I do, you have a better memory for those. JC: I remember Emily saying that she was from New York and that she spoke very proper and I had a Boston accent that was fairly thick at the time and Emily quietly note, 'oh, you have a thick Boston accent' and I think it lead into the fact that she would be allowed to have a car on campus and I was like, "ooh a car on car on campus, that'll be exciting" EC: Right, that was back in the day. I think now Freshmen are not allowed to have cars, but I think we did. I don't remember if I had it from the very beginning or six months in. JC: I don't recall EC: We might have. So yes, we met move-in day. My parents, Jennifer's parents. I was teary, I couldn't believe I was going to college, and going to be independent and �2 Cohen & Carr separated from my parents and Jennifer was ready to celebrate and throw her arms up in the air. JC: I was celebrating. Parent free. It was a nice opportunity to be away from my parents that I was very much looking forward to. HS: And what dorm were you in JC: Tower. Tower 8th floor correct? EC: 8th floor, yes. JC: And we had a balcony room EC: and a co-ed floor which my parents were horrified by JC: Oh gosh, mine as well. My father met a young man who had an earring, and he was a little, discombobulated by that fact. I think, first that there was a man on our floor and what did that mean in 1984. Didn't mean anything; that he liked an earring. HS: And when you got to your room did you decorate, did you settle in, did you explore the campus? EC: We bought a few things. You had a bit more flare than I did. You brought maybe a lamp, something for the walls, posters. There was definitely an Ice Cream Social, that was an icebreaker. I do remember that, going to that together. After I stopped crying we went to the ice cream social. We had the window seat, did you make that your bed? JC: Yea we moved the mattress off the bed-frame, I don't know where we were allowed to put the bed-frame after that, but we moved the mattress to the window seat so my bed was there and Emily had the modular unit. EC: Right, so I had to climb up some stairs and then the desk below. We had a nice room. Nice suite JC: We had suite-mates. 1, 2, 3, rooms on our side and then two rooms on the other side of the bathroom. �3 Cohen & Carr HS: So when you got into Skidmore did you have any idea of what you'd want to major in or what you wanted to get out of Skidmore? EC: I wanted liberal arts, so that's what drew me to Skidmore. I studied French, but really a broad liberal arts curriculum. So I think I was looking for that experience. You were business-minded. JC: I was a business major, and I think I knew that from the beginning but I also was excited about the liberal arts experience and I remember thinking partially through the school year how each class room experience had some shared knowledge that sort of transcended from one class to the next and I was very excited about that because that's not how high-school was. HS: Do you have any examples how those classes transcended into the rest? JC: It was a long time ago. Let's see. I do remember we took a business, we had BU-107 I think it was in the beginning stages of that and just how that incorporated accounting, but also had english features to it that you had to do presentations EC: Right, and read the book and even as a french major I took BU-107 and I remember to this day reading the book called House. I think that's what it was called, about a married couple who built a house - it was a novel about how they almost ended up divorced because of this process together so even in a business class there was this whole study approach. JC: The aspect of working in a group and who would take on which roles, and who was slacking and who was not slacking. I think I wasn't the best business major in the world HS: And did you take the class together cause you were such good friends? EC: We didn't take the class together, no. I took it maybe as a junior just ya know to take because it was one of those, 'oh you have to take BU-107 and �4 Cohen & Carr learn about McDonalds and Gillette Razors' and all of those classic business examples. You took it probably first year. JC: I took it first year, maybe second semester. I remember it being springtime. I remember on our day of our presentation listening to a Crosby Stills and Nash song, I don't know why that sticks in my mind, and having to present in front of these business men, there were no women at the time. But it was very nerve racking. I was nervous. HS: Do you remember what song? JC: I'm not good with the songs, but it's the one that goes on for about 12 minutes long. HS: Sweet Judy Blue Eyes? JC: mmm we'd have to google it I think HS: And could you tell me a bit about not just your dorm room, but your dorm life? Did you hang out with people in your suite and the floors? JC: We did, there was a freshmen group, they were in a triple. EC: Yes, one of our dearest friends to this day, she lives in Colorado so unfortunately Claude Goldberg is not here, but we're dear friends to this day. And then a junior in a single JC: And a senior on the other side whose boyfriend took photographs for Sports Illustrated and that was kind of fascinating; we got to see the photographs of - what sticks in my mind is the swimsuit issues were always so popular at the time and kind of sexist I guess now; but the swimsuit issues would come out and you'd look at all the photographs but we got to see all the photographs before they were retouched and we were amazed at how different things were. EC: I do remember that. JC: You remember that? �5 Cohen & Carr EC: I forgot about that. HS: Were there parties in the dorms or more relaxed? JC: I think they used to have like floor parties, maybe the RA's would pair up with another floor and you'd have like seventh and eighth floor would have like a social and I think they could serve alcohol cause the drinking age was eighteen at the time and they would put a sign on the water fountain that said 'non alcoholic beverage' kind of thing. And they'd be socials so they weren't hours and hours long but there was a common room EC: There was, I was just about to say I remember - was it on the top floor? Because I remember our freshmen year watching the Super Bowl in some sort of common room, but not on our floor because we were the last class to have J-term so we spent January, we came back right after December vacation and had a one month - I think I took art history that month - a one month intensive maybe three week class. And skiing, we used to go to West Mountain and Ski. So we were here for the Super-bowl. I remember going to a party freshmen year on that floor JC: Yea it's the penthouse I believe HS: So when you weren't in classes - you just said you skid - were you part of any clubs or activities? JC: I was on the riding team, the horse riding team for a couple of years. And did we join in the some other thing within the dorm, I think we might've EC: Maybe, I remember some sort of volunteer opportunities. I remember something in town, maybe with an elementary school that I did at one point. It was such a long time ago now but my memories are of, and that was what touched me this morning listening to the award ceremony, and to our classmate who received the Creative Thought Matters award, that there was this commitment even then to social activism and taking care of the �6 Cohen & Carr other and it wasn't called creative thought matters but it was definitely in the culture of, you know, putting yourself out there to help in the community and the world. HS: And so I guess coming back here are you seeing anything that has stayed the same that you're happy has stayed the same since when you were around? JC: I think the overall campus layout is the same so it feels familiar. Still the same buildings that are here now but I find comfort knowing like where to go to find which dorm, the names of the buildings return to my mind, when someone says the Ladd building, I'm like "oh the Ladd building". But mostly the dorms I think bring back a little nostalgia feel. Like which window was mine, you know remember that year you lived in that dorm and traipsing across the quad we would have occasionally on Saturdays or Sundays they would have sort of like cake parties out there I guess. Someone would put a speaker up in Howe-Rounds out their window and just be out. HS: And was there anything that you came across on campus while you've been here that started an immediate flashback to when you were in college? EC: Being on the green probably. Sitting there this morning having the skidmosas and looking out onto the green remembering those parties and, as I said, the music. I remember that Livingston Taylor came and played and there was a piano on the green. JC: I don't remember that, but I remember the gatherings. Some kids played hackey sack, there was always hackeysack, frisbee. Sometimes we would just sit out there and listen to the music, watch everybody come and go. It was nice cause you were all together and didn't have a class. It was all relaxed. �7 Cohen & Carr HS: Anything that as you've come back and see things that you wish were different, or things that you wished changed that you see are still the same? JC: I don't EC: No I see only progress. You know the garden, we were commenting if we would garden, and the answer is probably not. But young people today, college students today are so minded toward that so I only see improvements. The growth and the landscaping is more beautiful, the patios are more wonderful JC: Skidmore to me is like an awesome place and nothing, I would never change anything about it. Um, those places down there EC: Sussman JC: Sussman is reminiscent of what we lived in but is also nice and new. I am always happy to come back. No regrets. The only thing I wish is that we had more of things they have. You know the beautiful museums and the music center we were in today. EC: Zenkel is beautiful, and the tang. JC: We didn't have that. HS: And did either of you study abroad EC: No I didn't, remember, I didn't want to leave. I should have but I was so happy in Saratoga, so happy at Skidmore that I didn't. No. We were both here all four years. JC: I think I was happy to be here. HS: And while you were on campus did you ever break outside the Skidmore bubble, explore Saratoga? JC EC: Always JC: I think we would walk down or take the crazy bus that was offered �8 Cohen & Carr EC: And we went to the battlefield, the Saratoga Battlefield, we would go to Lake George occasionally, explore. Yes we felt that we were in a beautiful, we loved the area. JC: Sometimes we'd go out to dinner together or with another friend. Even as freshmen we would find someplace else to eat besides the dining hall. EC: Yes, the dining hall is a huge step up from our dining hall. Huge step up in looks and quality JC: I remember shrimp cocktail. Every, maybe once a month, they'd put out this huge display of shrimp. Do you recall that? I think I overdosed on shrimp because that would be like the only food I would eat. Seemed the freshest. I had so many shrimp EC: I remember eggs. Always making egg salad from the hard boiled eggs. Yea that's my strongest dining hall memory JC: The shrimp always caught me off guard, like what college has shrimp. My other friends were like, 'you get shrimp in college?' I'm like 'yea' HS: When you went out for dinners in Saratoga was there one place that was kind of the go-to? EC: Madame Jammels for Sunday brunch which I think is gone. The Court Bistro which is also not there. Oh and Hattie's Chicken Shack is still there, we used to go there on Sundays for dinner. Gaffneys of course for wing night. JC: And that was inexpensive EC: Yes. Um Where else did we JC: When our parents were in town we'd make them take us to the expensive restaurants like the Old Bryan Inn. EC: Lillians we went to occasionally JC: What was that place out by the lake? On Saratoga lake �9 Cohen & Carr EC: It's still there. It's big, it almost has a theme to it now. JC: I think it had a water feature on the inside. EC: Yes I think so. What's it called, out on the lake or towards the lake. JC: They had coconut bread as the bread they serve from the beginning and they had a recipe that my mother still has. EC: Oh really? I can't remember the name of that restaurant. JC: Steven [Mosk] took me there on our first date. Big spender that he was. EC: Showing off HS: And have you been to any of these places since you graduated? EC: Definitely. JC: Mrs. Londons we enjoy. Gaffneys. I mean the physical buildings are still there, most of them anyway. EC: So Jennifer and I, because we so love Saratoga and Skidmore, we've come to every reunion and we've also come over the years for a fall trip to meet each other or a spring trip with our moms, did we come once with our moms. So we've definitely stayed very connected. We rented a house one summer we were remembering this morning, 20 years ago, no 19 years ago. Yea so we've stayed very attached and very connected to Skidmore. JC: It's one of our favorite places to be, I think. It makes us happy when we're here. HS: Did you feel like, or has your appreciation of Skidmore or Saratoga change since you left Skidmore? JC: I know I think we still feel, like we come back and we feel we know which streets to go up and down, it feels familiar EC: It's grown quite a bit, the downtown. We definitely reminisce about the way things were before there were more retail chain stores, that's a difference. But it's kept its character and we just love seeing what's new. �10 Cohen & Carr JC: Grand Union's gone. EC: yes JC: Price chopper. What else did we do? We used to go there to get snacks EC: Right. Is the diner still there? Down toward JC: Comptons? EC: No, there was a diner wasn't there? Toward the lake on Broadway? I don't know. HS: So what was an average week like? JC: I remember we would have classes. It wouldn't be a full day of classes. You'd have whatever you chose for your times, for your class schedule. But you'd have a class, a little bit of time off, time to have a lunch break, go back to an afternoon class. Some would have an evening class, some would have a 7 o'clock class. We'd have dinner in between, then library/ study in the room. I was not a very good library goer. And then I think every day was a little different but that was sort of the general them, I don't remember sleeping in. EC: No. And maybe exercising. The athletic center isn't what it is today, but it was really nice in 1984, 85. We played squash, played a lot of squash. Um we watched friends compete in sports. JC: Hockey EC: Yes, hockey games HS: Were the sports a big part of the culture at Skidmore back then? JC: It was small enough that I think you pretty much knew everybody who played a sport and who didn't play a sport so if your friend or girlfriend was playing an important game on campus you'd definitely want to visit and see what they were up to. I don't think I took in too many basketball games, but a few. �11 Cohen & Carr EC: no. Hockey, lacrosse, occasional soccer. JC: Tennis EC: We'd watch tennis. HS: And was that the same with the equestrian team? JC: So the equestrian team didn't really have shows, maybe once a year we'd have shows here so we'd have to travel around. Got to go to Cornell, I've forgotten some of the other places we would go. St. Lawrence, we would drive all the way up there. So it was more off campus, and we'd have to sleep overnight usually which was strange. We'd be in kind of crummy hotels and no bus would take us we'd have to drive in someones personal car which I don't think they do anymore. Probably legal reasons HS: what was it like competing at the collegiate level? JC: That was awesome. The horse back team is a little bit different than a traditional sport. As a team you're not out there at the same time, you're sort of doing it individually to accumulate points as a team. So you were still riding horses like you were normally in your previous life but it was fun to be with a bunch of ladies and men, because it was a co-ed sport so that was pretty neat. EC: Bruce did it with you JC: Yes, I was on the team with Bruce EC: On our freshmen year JC: Yup that's how we got to know each-other a little bit better. But it was a fun thing to do as a co-ed group I guess. And we spent a lot of time traveling back and forth so we would chat about whatever, eat pizza out usually is what we ended up doing but it was kind of fun to see other schools and got to meet the kids at a different level, like we would spend more time with them because we would be hanging at the schools with them. Different �12 Cohen & Carr schools were competing in one arena, you go and you right their horse so you don't know what you're getting until you get there which was the unique part about it. HS: And you did it all four years? JC: I didn't do it my senior year. Three years. I don't know what happened EC: I don't remember JC: I don't remember either. I don't know if it was taking more time than I could spend, or I wanted to diversify cause I ended up being on the government committee. Student government committee. EC: Mmm. SGA, you did do that, I forgot about that. JC: Yea so the student government council? EC: Association I think. SGA? JC: I don't remember. EC: I think JC: And we would sit on disciplinary hearings for students so we were sort of in charge of making disciplinary actions amongst your peers which was a sort of unique experience in itself. HS: Any things from there that remain with you? JC: I remember it being very difficult and I thought it was a challenge to participate in that because you are their peers and we didn't have a court system like you do now. We didn't have a ton of evidence it was more one person speaking for themselves, maybe someone else speaking for or against them. And then we had to decide what the disciplinary action would be. We had a guide and there was definitely a faculty or administrative member on the team. But I don't remember what we listened to to be honest. What kind of crimes they were. EC: What sort of infractions. I don't remember �13 Cohen & Carr JC: There may have been a sexual assault discussion which now would be probably something you hear more often, but back in 1987 or '8, whatever, that was, it was hard I think to understand what was right and what was wrong with facts and evidence HS: and were you part of SGA as well? EC: No I wasn't, I did more volunteer work I remember. I did have an internship at the Hyde Museum. I was thinking about that during my drive here. In the rare book department and that was fun. I would drive to that museum and do some work there but no student government for me. HS: Was the Hyde internship something that you got through Skidmore? EC: Yes it was. I don't remember how, and I don't even remember if it was our junior year or if it was over two years but it was a wonderful museum and I was thinking about it on the way here, if we had more time it would be fun to go back and see that museum. HS: And was that an area that you thought maybe after college that you'd go into? EC: I think I was just exploring more than anything honestly. I liked art, liked books, and it was an opportunity that presented itself so I don't think I really, thirty years ago things were so different. We just didn't think that much about what we would do after college. It's, to look at the wall downstairs of the seniors from this year that have phenomenal jobs in banking and law and medicine and the Your Hired Photos; we commented yesterday, we wouldn't be on that wall. JC: We went to Europe. EC: We went to Europe. HS: For how long were you in Europe? �14 Cohen & Carr JC: Two months. I think a total of eight weeks. Our third friend Claude came with us and we all met at Emily's parents house and they took us to the airport and sent us off on Air-whatever we were on-france? And we had such wonderful experiences cause Claude had an uncle in Paris and we stayed in someones friend's flat and we went to the south of France and stayed with yourEC: My brother's client, yes. And we crossed paths - so maybe students do it still - but we crossed paths with so many Skidmore friends throughout Europe and my kids always grown when I say this but, pre cell phones we would say, 'okay we'll meet you next Tuesday at the fountain at three o'clock' and we did, it worked. It wasn't, 'are you there yet? are you coming? are you sure'. We just made these plans and ran into friends and it was great. We had a great time. JC: And we ran into another classmate, he was the class president, we ran into him at the [museum name] museum? Randomly. So it was definitely something that a lot of graduates were doing at the time. Traveling. EC: Backpacking through Europe. HS: You studied french, so obviously that came in handy. Was there any other things you learned from an actual class at Skidmore or just being a Skidmore student that you felt like prepared you for this unchartered world? JC: I took an art history class, I remember because I didn't know enough about art and art history so I remember seeing some of those things we studied in class in real life and how amazing that was. That I enjoyed, that piece. My business piece sort of applied in the, after our travels I think. EC: But I think just the general Skidmore feeling on campus of being open to experiences and �15 Cohen & Carr JC: that we felt comfortable doing that experience EC: Exactly. Exactly. HS: and what was your average Friday night like? JC: I think usually we wouldn't leave campus until maybe 10pm. 9:30pm? and then go downtown and find a spot to be with all of our friends. There was the Trattoria, we remembered last night, was the three floor storied place with music and a lot of music I think it was. Someone would DJ, sometimes a Skiddie would be DJing. EC: and Barclays which is no longer I think. But that was Tuesday nights I think. JC: That was definitely midweek. Maybe that's why it closed. HS: Were there many nights during the week that you'd go down to these places? JC: Thursday nights we would EC: Thursday nights we went to a bar, it's now called Baileys, it was the grill at the time. I think Tuesday nights was a Barclays night, and Thursday nights was the Grill and Friday night was wherever, or a house party. A lot of people lived off campus our junior and senior years. But late. We definitely stayed. And everything stayed open late. And then late night wings or popcorn at Gaffneys JC: There was that hotdog place that at the window, you'd walk up to a facade there was no place to sit or anything - you'd get your EC: Cheesy fries JC: Something HS: And this is downtown? EC: Downtown. I think it's next to the Tin and Lint still? Maybe it's gone, or next to Gaffneys I don't know. �16 Cohen & Carr HS: And this was going on Freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior year? JC: I know when we first started cause the drinking age was 18, the campus life was a little more vibrant cause you could have alcohol on campus and they allowed you to have keg parties as long as there was an alternate beverage offered. But I think after the drinking age changed there was definitely a shift in how much time we spent our time on campus in the evenings. HS: So it changed while you were in college? JC EC: it did. EC: It went to 21. From 18 to 21. HS: Do you remember what year you guys were? EC: I think it was spring of our freshmen year? Or fall of sophomore year JC: It went to twenty. I think it went to twenty, when we were sophomores and when we were just about to turn twenty it turned twenty-one. HS: So what was that like being students in this place where you had all these freedoms and then to have it crashing down? JC: It was, we felt annoyed by that because, you're from NY, I wasn't from NY so it was already 21 at home. But at school I was allowed to drink alcohol and then you come back from winter break and you're no longer allowed legal. And they didn't grandfather anyone in, maybe they did for New York people? EC: I don't think so because I remember thinking that it was just so wrong, and being so irritated by that, 'how can you let us drink for 6 months and then all of a sudden you say you can't drink anymore'. JC: It did disrupt the feeling of the town I think and I think the town businesses suffered as well because they couldn't let us in. HS: Did that put any strain on your relationship with the school? EC JC: no no �17 Cohen & Carr JC: No, they just had to follow the rules, so the party size changed where - oh yea I forgot, I was the Bud rep on campus our senior year. So we would (laughs) - Spuds McKenzie EC: I forgot about that JC: You were not even born then. So there was an Annheiser Busch distributor not far in Saratoga and I worked directly with the distributor and each party would have to go through the rep to acquire their alcoholic beverages so I would help them supply them with a cool, a kegerator kind of thing where you hook up the kegs to it. So I'd go and set up the kegs and attach them all. But in the beginning you used to have like a ten keg party and then when the drinking age went from 20 to 21 it was down to like a four keg party and then they stopped offering keg parties on campus after I left. But the Spuds McKenzie thing, we had like swag we'd hand out, t-shirts. It's kind of funny I forgot about that experience. I had to diversify didn't I, from the horse team. I was on SGA and the Bud rep at the same time. HS: I guess looking back if you could tell yourself one piece of advice going forward is there anything you would have changed? EC: Maybe the study abroad. Even though we traveled, I think that having children who have studied abroad I think that I should've done that, but I don't regret it. Definitely not. I made the choice, I loved Skidmore, I loved Saratoga and wanted my four years here. Couldn't think about missing a fall here or a spring here, even the winters ya know now I can't stand winter but, and we got feet and feet of snow. You still do, I'm sure. But it wasn't a big deal. So that's probably the one thing that maybe I would say, 'oh, you should've gone to Paris' JC: I think that I would tell myself to pay a little closer to my studies, to you know use my time a little more wisely as a student. But also participate in �18 Cohen & Carr all the school has to offer, don't miss out on both things. I think my studying could've been better. But it was fine. It all was good. EC: It all worked out. HS: Great, and any last great stories you didn't get a chance to tell? JC: I don't know, we had so many fun times together just, our other girlfriend Claude joining us in some of the fun and being part of each-others lives is always a fun story but I don't know if theres one specific. EC: No, just such an intimacy that we really are family, you know I love that as I said, we didn't have creative thought matters, but we did. It just wasn't called that. And we didn't have hashtags but I love that hashtag Skid4Life. Because we are Skidmore sisters and just in each-others lives because of our experience here. Our kids are in each-others lives, our husbands. Four of us, another girlfriend who's here at reunion and Claude, the one in Colorado, the eight of us - with our husbands - went to Las Vegas to celebrate our fiftieth birthdays so that was a real Skidmore reunion. JC: And we met up with a fifth friend who lives out in that area, so that was really fun having ten of us together and it felt like we had been together every month but some of us haven't seen each-other in 20 years or only every five years. So its just great. HS: That's wonderful, well I think that just about wraps it up. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cohen, Emily; Carr, Jennifer Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording Title A name given to the resource Interview with Emily Cohen and Jennifer Carr, '88 alumni oral history Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0112e20e3c4af230a84be1720072fcb0.jpg 6ee0b6f04ad290999f54d721e83579fd https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/4e3e521d48a56480b5499c111d29058f.jpg f9d7aded77e3dd1fd9e7cc6ce6b45299 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fe0f2a2372764f954c14703677d93c31.m4a d49d47cd73d72d4331124a36c6efa747 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/03c1fa9f243af125000abc19ea842efa.pdf 007f650d827c0373ec64efbab65a5e09 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Warner, Andrew Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording Title A name given to the resource Interview with Andrew Warner, 83 alumni oral history Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/53066a2713d31fd70dbb395b645855e6.jpg 8c304454a7f1821579efcd08ecdca812 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/647ba7adddf563fb5248451b73449e62.mp3 6ce9ea0b87c3111b8648e9c47a33b892 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9454b72047b23cc48d4411a49e27aee7.pdf 243ad65043e2d9030d183a7fa4eba595 PDF Text Text JS: Hello, I am James Sutherland and um, I am doing the Saratoga Springs Memory Project interview. Could you introduce yourself? EM: Yes, I am Eric Morser, I am an associate professor of history at Skidmore College. JS: Um, could you tell us a little about your background? EM: Yeah, I am originally from Wisconsin, uh, I lived there for the first thirty three years of my life, I went to the University of Wisconsin for my undergraduate degree, and liked it enough in Madison Wisconsin that I stayed there for my masters and my PHD, so I was there for fifteen years. Um, after that, I had a number of jobs around the country, I taught at a university in Pennsylvania, I taught for two years at the University of New Mexico and three years at the University of Florida, before coming up to Skidmore, and I have been at Skidmore now for about nine years. JS: So you came to Saratoga for Skidmore? EM: Yes, yeah there was a job that was open, and it sounded like it was a good place, and I had known some people who had taught here, and, uh, that is really what drew me here. JS: Um, so what is one big memory, what is your favorite memory of Saratoga Springs? EM: My favorite memory of Saratoga Springs is probably related to this little person here, uh, he was born a few months after we moved here, and uh, I remember very clearly, I was teaching a class- a night class on campus, I got a call from his mom saying "Can you come home, I need to go to the hospital," and then he was born at 6:06 the next day on November 5, 2009, so that is probably one of the clearest memories that I have. JS: And, um, what about a memory from Skidmore? EM: Uh, I think one of the best memories I've had from Skidmore is, right at- the year when I came, there was something called the Coroda(?) lecture, and that's, it happens every two years, it's hosted by the Poli-sci department, and Government, and American Studies, and each time each department gets it they bring special speaker in. So, I think it was my first year, or my second? I think it was my first year, where it was my job to bring the speaker in, and I was not quite sure what to make of it, I had somebody in mind who turned out to be great, she came to campus, she talked about early American history, she had just written a book about Thomas Jefferson, and the women in his life, and it was that moment where I really felt like I was part of the Skidmore community. Where people, I was reaching out to people, and they were coming to this event, and it was kind of a big campus event, and that was a really good memory for me, �that’s always been a good memory thinking about how it is that I started to create an origin, to establish roots here. JS: Any other events like that that stand out to you? EM: Yeah, I mean one that’s more recent than that, is that I was able to work on a prison exhibit that came to campus, it was a national prison exhibit, I had put together a public history course kind of like the one that you’re teaching, it was built around a semester long project, I know you guys are doing the Howard Zinn documentary, and that project was related to the history of Mount MacGregor, a prison that closed in 2014, and we were invited to join this international, well really national but kind of international organization, in which each school was donating a local story relating to mass incarceration. So I was able to work on this project with those students, and then finally last semester that exhibit that had been touring the country came to Skidmore, and it was kind of a nice series of memories of events that I’d worked on, with Jordana Dym and some other people on campus, drawing people from in the community, draeing a lot of students, and it was a series of really satisfying events that highlighted all of the things that are possible when you’re at a place like Skidmore. So I think more recently that’s something that really stands out. JS: These- so community events, I take it, you’re very into them. EM: Yes, yes definitely. JS: Are those the only two, or… EM: Those are the ones that really stand out, I – part of what I do along with teaching in the history department, I’m the faculty director of civic engagement, so that has given me a chance to work with other faculty members and students on similar kinds of community events so I spend a lot of time thinking about bringing speakers to campus, and helping students reach out beyond the campus in ways that are really satisfying, one thing that we did a couple of years ago was we brought a speaker in named Julie Winoker(?), and she, uh, had put together a film about the challenge of trying to get people from different political points of view having conversations with one another, and that was, we brought her in in 2016, when the presidential election was really heating up, and it was a nice chance to bring members of the community together for, uh, for an event that I thought was really important given the context of the times. So whenever there’s a chance to do that kind of community outreach I really really enjoy it. JS: What are some challenges that you face with that aspect of the job? EM: It is always, uh with the civic engagement stuff, it is always um… well we don’t have a lot of resources for it, so I’m lucky enough to work with a subcommittee, on campus, where I work with people like Michelle Hubbs, who is a staff member who works on community outreach, and I work with other faculty members. Had the committee not existed, I could not do the job at all. And part of it is just about having financial support, a part of it is logistical support, planning these events takes a lot of time, and takes a lot of energy, and it can be really satisfying, but it can be really stressful as well, trying to figure out if the room you have is the right size, trying to reach out to people who are not members of the �campus, trying to bring a lot of people in, there are always a lot of moving parts, so that’s part of the challenge of it, and when it works it’s great, but it takes a lot of focused energy to get it moving. JS: So what’s one thing about Skidmore or Saratoga Springs that you would change? EM: Oooh, that I would change about Skidmore or Saratoga Springs… um… I guess for Skidmore, if I could change anything, and this is a little more personal I guess, I really like this idea of civic engagement, I wish we had a center for civic engagement, I wish we had some kind of a dedicated space, I wish we had staff, I wish we had a million dollar a year budget, um, I think something like that would be fantastic. And one thing that I also wish is that um, I wish that there was a little more sense of coordination on campus because there’s so much going on, and a lot of times one hand doesn’t always know what the other hand is doing in terms of planning events, or even putting classes together that I wish there was some kind of way to coordinate things a little more so that we always, so that we have a better sense of all of the activities that are going on, rather than having so much going on that people feel overwhelmed, and I think that students sometimes feel overwhelmed by that as well. So I think if I could change anything personally I’d love to have a center for civic engagement, otherwise if there was a way to coordinate these events and um, to really involve different kinds of departments who might be interested in these events and to bring them in in a more intentional way, I think that’d be great. JS: Reverse of that, what’s one thing that you hope never changes? EM: I hope, what never changes, is that, I hope I always have good, devoted students, and one thing I like about Skidmore students is that they are really aware of the world around them. I like the fact that we have so many students going abroad, I like the fact that there are a lot of students who really believe that they can change the world, and if that attitude disappeared it would be a real loss, so I think that’s one thing that I really like, I really like the students. You guys are really engaged, and you’re just, you’re a fun group to work with, and that’s the biggest thing I would hate to see disappear. JS: So how many different classes would you say you’ve taught at Skidmore? EM: Um, I would say ten or twelve classes, I think something like that? Um, I’ve got in my rotation now I’ve got six or seven, something like that, and I’ve got different versions, I think I’ve taught a dozen different classes, ten or twelve for sure. And I mean that’s one thing that’s nice too that I really like about Skidmore, is that we’ve got a lot of freedom to design the kinds of classes that we really like, um, at some places I knew people who taught the same class over and over and over again, and there was not a lot of freedom or leeway to really engage in that kind of creative pedagogy, where you would have a chance to say, I really wanna teach a class on this, like I taught my first year experience course, when that exhibit was here, I taugh a first year experience course on mass incarceration, and I was able to take my students over to the exhibit and integrate them into the events, and that is something that would not necessarily be common at a bigger university, so one great thing about Skidmore is that we have that kind of freedom to teach a variety of different kinds of classes, and we’ve got a lot of, there’s a lot of energy in the history department, where people are having conversations about classes that they want to teach, or team teaching, or coming in and talking in somebody else’s class, we do that all the time, and there’s a really nice sense of cooperative education going on here. And that’s, that’s been really exciting. �JS: So is there any particular class or collaboration with another teacher that stands out? EM: Uh, one that I did this past semester is, my colleague Erika Bastress-Dukehart, who teaches – you may have had her before – that she teaches a course on crime and punishment ijn Europe, and I was doing my course on mass incarceration in the United States, and I said to her it’d be great if you could come in and talk about Fukoh(?) and talk about the European origins of American criminal justice, and she came in and did that, and, uh, it was great for the students to meet her, and see, her, she’s really dynamic, and she said now I – it’d be great if you could come into my class too, so I went into one of her classes on the Reformation and talked about the impact of the Reformation on American history, and that was one moment where the two of us could really come together, and it really wasn’t just about having conversations, where we discover that we have similar interests, it was about us taking those similar interests and viewing particular events from different points of view and coming into classes and sharing those different points of view. It’s moments like that that are really great, and we’ve talked about doing more of that kind of work here, and that’s one that I really look back and say “that worked, that was a good thing.” JS: Um, of all the historical sites in and around Saratoga, which one resonates with you most of all? EM: I like – I love the battlefield, that’s probably an easy answer for me. I really, I’ll give you two to that, I love the battlefield because I like to be able to talk about the Battle of Saratoga in class and tell students we’re 20 minutes away from where the world changed. Uh, they do a really nice job leading tours, and organizing it, but I really really like having that battlefield close by because it reminds students how close history can actually be. One other place I like is Congress Park, and I like that just because of the beauty of the park, and I’ve got fond memories of taking him (his son) there and going on the merry-go-round, even though you cried the first time because you thought you’d never be able to come back ever again, once we did that, but in terms of teaching I like to point to Congress Park because not only is that the place where John Morrissey established one of his casinos, but it’s where Frederick Law Olmsted, the landscape architect, did some of his work, and he’s the one who designed Central Park. So it’s a nice opportunity to both be in this beautiful place and say “look, this is where all of this cool history happened, it’s really close by, it defines the community that we all live in, and you can go and visit it, and see it.” So those are two places that really stand out for me in terms of places that are close by, historical places. JS: Do you think any sites around here are understated, or not as prominent? EM: I am not sure, I think sometimes what happens is that people don’t always remember that they’re surrounded by history, and one of the activities that I have students do in my public history class is just take a day and walk around the downtown and look around at it, and look at the architecture, and look at the dates on the buildings, and a place like Broadway I think has a really interesting history that people don’t always think about because they don’t go down there thinking about the history, they think about the shopping, or going to the bookstore or going out to eat, and if we stop and kind of just sit and look around and say “that is, I had not thought about it in historical terms,” you can see how that type of history in everyday life is just more important and more prominent than people often recognize. One thing I like to do too is have students try and follow the railroad tracks, if you go down in front of, they run past �the movie theater, and they run past to the grocery store downtown, that they’ve been laid out so that you can walk the railroad tracks, and when you do something like that you get a sense of how the city has changed. So in terms of finding places that are often overlooked, I like to take a look at the everyday, and say “let’s try and locate this in a historical context.” And if you do that, then you can see how it is that the everyday life that you lead is connected to these broader stories that continue to echo in American history and in a place like Saratoga Springs. JS: Do you think that Broadway and places like that are intentionally designed or presented in a way that makes people think about history? EM: I think it’s getting better, I think that there are efforts on the part of historic preservation in town, and other local historians to say that we need to remember that this history is present, and I don’t think that people always see it, but I think that there is an effort on the part of a lot of local historians to highlight this kind of history as it exists, I just think that people are not programmed to notice it. But there is, I think that there is a real effort in town to try and do this, and it doesn’t make Saratoga Springs unusual, I think you see that in a lot of local communities, it is really hard to break people out of the contemporary mindset and say “this is the past around us,” we’ve got to grasp that, to understand how that past that seems long past is still alive and still shapes the world that we inhabit, I think local historians often have to swim upstream to do that. They do a good job, in Saratoga Springs I think they do a pretty good job but they’re fighting against a tendency of people to think very contemporarily in the way that they understand the world. JS: Do you think that Skidmore students are better about recognizing the subtleties of history found out in the world? EM: I think that if they take the time to think about it they can be very good, and I’ve seen this in my own public history class where students have gone out and they’ve really been given the freedom and the encouragement to go out and really think about these more subtle stories and I think that they have the capacity to do that kind of work if they’re given the chance, and I think that some people in environmental studies do prjects like this where they get students out into the community thinking about environmental issues in a way that we as public historians really want our students to do the same kind of thing. I think if Skidmore – one thing I like about Skidmore students is that you guys do almost everything we ask you to do, and if given a chance you will do great things. So it’s about having the opportunity and getting out and getting off the campus, and getting into town and getting to the battlefield and seeing all of these things. And my experience is that when that happens, when I took students up to see Mount MacGregor, it was eye opening. It was transformative for them to actually see the prison that they were talking about in the class. So I have a lot of faith in Skidmore students. JS: You mentioned environmental studies, do you think that… what other fields of study do you think are beneficial to be studied alongside history? EM: Um, I think, I love it when I have students who take anthropology, um because we do very similar kinds of things, we look back, we put bits and pieces together trying to reconstruct lost worlds, so I love when I have students who are archaeologists, who work with people like Heather Hurst, who are able to �bring that point of view into the classes that I teach. I love having students who are able to contextualize cultural issues, in classes, so I love having students who are English majors, or dance majors, or theater majors, and I think theater in particular is a really cool way to think about storytelling which is what we do as historians. So I think anthropologists, political scientists, these other kinds of humanists, bringing them into the history classes can be fantastic, and I’m kind of running on and it’s going to be like “I love having everybody in class!” But I also, I mean the other thing I would say is that it can be really refreshing having physical and natural scientists taking history classes too, because they will bring to the game different kinds of questions, and they are often really… I can see the lightbulb coming on for example when I have environmental studies majors who emphasize the science part of it, taking an environmental history class. So I like having students from all over the place who bring different points of view, and who think in radically different ways but can inform what we talk about in history by what they bring to the class from these different, these different locations. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview James Sutherland Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Eric Morser Location The location of the interview Office of Eric Morser Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data mp3 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. James Sutherland Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 08/03/18 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Eric Morser Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/23/18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource Eric Morser is an associate professor in the Skidmore Department of History, and Faculty Director of Civic Engagement. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sutherland, James. '19 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/bfe1cfadd69094873da67c8c10e6c207.PNG 86d6997cb765d8acbcad7f230c11a357 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c58b894c6fea455fc073f7b0e208b4f3.m4a fd7612609852d8d62f36898a1ffc97db https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/bcc2dc7689602cdebf81459a580d7a45.pdf ff8b1ddea9e3970412e3bf6917e3ecc5 PDF Text Text Interview with Susan (“Gibbsie”) Gibbs '65 by Charlotte Bracklo '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. CHARLOTTE BRACKLO [00:00]: Um, so where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore's nursing program? SUSAN GIBBS [00:07]: I was from Wellesley, Massachusetts. CB [00:11]: Okay. And how did you hear about Skidmore or the program or what, what drew you to it? SG [00:18]: Oh Gosh. Well, I knew I wanted to become a nurse and I guess I just heard by word of mouth, um, about Skidmore's program and that it was supposed to be an excellent, excellent program. And I had a cousin who was, who went to Skidmore, but she, she was not in the nursing program, but I think I asked her a little bit about that and she said, ‘Oh yeah, it was supposed to be very good.’ So, so I applied. It was that easy. I didn't know a whole lot about it before I started. CB [00:50]: That's great. So, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? SG [00:55]: No. Nothing. Nothing at all, no. My mother apparently had wanted to be a nurse in her youth, but her father wouldn't let her, he didn't think that was appropriate so that the idea blew out the window. CB [01:07]: Okay. So, so what drew you to nursing in the first place? SG [01:12]: Uh, I don't, it's kind of hard to tell. I think, I think maybe I had seen some movie, I don't remember what it is at the moment where it was about nursing or about a nurse. And I thought that that was fascinating because originally for years and years I, I had wanted to be a preschool teacher and because I've, I've worked with children my whole life and I, and I, I knew I wanted to be a pediatric nurse, but I didn't know I wanted to be a nurse to begin with. But all of a sudden it just hit me like a bolt of lightning out of the blue that, oh, I'm going to be a nurse. So, I went on with it. CB [01:50]: Cool. And what was your educational background like going into Skidmore? SG [01:56]: Uh, I went to a school called Dana Hall, which is in Wellesley and got a very good, in my opinion, and very good general education there. So I was, I was ready for college, definitely. CB [02:11]: Great. And you kind of already got to this, but what, um, was there anything specific that drew you to Skidmore's program or was it really the fact that your cousin was there? SG [02:24]: No, we weren't that close. So it was, it was the nursing program that drew me to it �because it, it had a, just a really, really good, uh, what do you call it? Now my English is failing. They said good things about it. Yeah. CB [02:41]: Um, what was your sense of the program before, before you started there? SG [02:49]: Um, really nothing. I just knew that it was one, I think it was one of the top four schools in the country. And I knew I wanted to get a baccalaureate education and not just go to a three-year nursing school because that was, well, that had started a few years before, but, uh, it was really becoming quite, uh, the thing to do back then. And I know several people that I both knew and had heard of, uh, had gone to a uh, gone to a three year school and then went back afterwards to get their degree. So, I figured I might as well kill two birds with one stone. Yeah. And it sounded like a school I wanted to go to. Just generally speaking. CB [03:35]: Um, so tell me more about your experience in the program. Anything from classes, professors that stood out? Any specific memories? SG [03:47]: Well, we had a very, quite a stringent program because we, we had to declare our, uh, our major before we were admitted to Skidmore. Even, I mean, I was in, it was, it was a very stringent program. So, our freshman year, uh, all we had...We didn't have to take, I don't know what you guys do today, but we did have to take freshman English. That was, that was required of us. And, but all the other freshmen had to take a course in logic and we didn't have, everyone had to take it. They had to, there was no question. But you know, they couldn't get out of it. And we heard all these different questions they were asking and we kind of felt out of it in the dorm, because everybody was talking about logic, but we were talking about anatomy and physiology. No, but we had, we just had freshman English that year and um, uh, other than nursing, all the other things were nursing programs or uh courses, so, so we had our work cut out for us. And then we had, we were two years in New York City and we were there the summer after our sophomore year for eight weeks. So, it was actually a four and a half year program. But when we got back to campus on, on our senior, in our senior year, we were, we only had one nursing program, which was one nursing course, which was a, a sort of a highfalutin course about... It was, it was nothing clinical about it at all. Our clinical work was in New York City and then, then we were allowed to take just about whatever we wanted to when we got back onto campus. And we were allowed to take 400-level classes and certain things if they had room for us you know. And we weren't expected to do our, well, we were expected to do our best, but we weren't expected to be the best of the class. I remember taking a 400-level course with a bunch of, everybody was seniors, you know, and um, I was the only nurse in there and they were all English majors. And I remember one time one of the professors who was a full professor and had a doctorate, she asked a question about one of the, it was Shakespeare. And, uh, asked a question about one of his plays and everybody sat there like bumps on logs and I raised my hand and I answered the question. She said, ‘you're absolutely right.’ And then she said to them, ‘see girls, that, and that's a nurse.’ I'll never forget that. That's also that, that was the program. You know, we, we didn't have any choice except for our senior year. We had no choice as to what we were going to take. But that was okay because we knew we had to. That was �fine. We had some wonderful, wonderful, uh, teachers, especially in our, well in all of our years. But the, the freshman year, my favorite was, was our anatomy and physiology teacher. We had to dissect cats and we couldn't always find the organs or the veins or the nerves or whatever we were looking for. And we would say to her, her name was Eve Beverly Field. And we would say to her, ‘Ms. Field, uh, I can't find the,’ well, let's say the liver, which was not easy. I mean, that wasn't so hard to overlook. But anyway, and we said, ‘could you please show me where it is?’ And she would wave her hand over the corpse and she’d say, ‘right around in there.’ So, you were back to square one. No, but we had, we had very, we had very good teachers, I think. I think I liked all of them for, I liked all of them all of the time actually. Yeah, and of course the ones we had when we were in New York City were, they were all nurses themselves, except for one who was a psychologist and had a different course with us. So, a couple of the people that were teachers in New York, were uh, were Skidmore graduates themselves. Three of them were I think so that, that was nice. CB [07:54]: That's cool. So, tell me, tell me more about your time in New York. SG [08:00]: Oh boy. That was fun. It was, we stayed, our dorm was, belonged to the New York University Medical School and it was a 14-story building right on the East River and right near the hospital, which was the New York University Medical Center. And uh, we had the two top floors for Skidmore people. And there was no, I mean we just had, they were dorm rooms. There was no kitchen, there was no nothing. And I was just thinking of this this morning, I think I ate for dinner my entire two years down there I ate BLT sandwiches. There was a snack bar in the complex there and we all ate there. We didn't have any money for anything, you know. So, then there was a, there was a restaurant on 2nd Avenue, which was run by an Italian man who for some reason, I guess previous, lots of previous Skidmore students had gone in to eat at his place. His name was Leno and he loved Skidmore students. He had all the class pictures on the walls of his restaurant. And if we got very, very hungry and had no money, we could go in and eat for free and then we could pay him when he, when we got some money from our parents. We weren't allowed to work while we were students. That what that was, yeah, that was very, very strict. Because, uh, our, our instructors were responsible for what we did and we weren't allowed to practice any nursing, you know, on its own. So, so we, so we didn't have any money unless somebody's parents gave them a lot of money or something. And it was, it was an experience to live in the city. Uh, we had one in our class who was from, I don't think any of us, slept the first two nights we were there because it was so noisy. And we had, we had one girl who was from a small town in Missouri and when we got to Saratoga Springs, she couldn't sleep at night because of all the traffic on Union Avenue, which you people don't have as a problem that, but there was not a lot of traffic on Union Avenue. So, I don't think she slept the first week we were in New York. It was so noisy, but we got used to it. We got used to it. CB [10:23]: And how did your time in Saratoga compare to your time in New York? SG [10:28]: Oh, they were completely different. You just can't compare them. We grew up, we �really grew up quickly. We noticed a big difference when we got back to campus as seniors because, well of course what we...our field to study of course was, you know, we ran into a lot of really serious mind-boggling things then and uh, which we had to face up to. So, where the, the kids on campus were, they just were regular college students doing regular college... I'm sure plenty of them had serious things they had to think about and stuff. But it was, it was completely different. Then of course the pace of the life in New York City was completely different from, from uh, up in Saratoga. And we had a different campus that, that time, the campus you guys are on now was bought when we were freshmen. And I remember we had a day, the whole school got a day off, and we called it Woodlawn day and everybody went out to the place where the current campus is and we sawed down small trees and gathered brush and made big piles and lit bonfires for a whole day, which was helping so that they could take the first shovel and start working on the new campus. So, we were never there and it was nothing in our senior year either, everything on the old campus. So, so I've never had the, the privilege to be on the new one. Except that I've been at, to a couple of reunions, but never lived there or anything. CB [12:10]: So you just mentioned that you ran into a lot of mind-boggling situations. Is there anything that stands out that you would like to share? SG [12:180: Eh, well, the way that a lot of really sick patients, you know, and I, I remember, I remember the very first patient I had, who was an older man and I had to, I had to give him a shot. I had never given anybody a shot before, so I was petrified. And he was, he was getting a pain injection, so he, he was looking forward to the shot, which was good, but he was, his skin was like leather. And I didn't stick the needle in hard enough and it bounced back. And then I thought, oh, I'm giving up, I'm quitting, I'm quitting. And my instructor, who was a very demanding, wonderful person and she said, ‘Do it again,’ and the man groaned and all that. So, he got his shot. Oh, the first time was the worst. And I had a classmate, oh gosh, this was... We had never been on the wards before or anything. And she had a patient who wanted to use his urinal and she didn't know what a urinal was, and it was standing on the bedside table. And he said to her at that time, they were, they were metal, you see, so you couldn't see through them. I don't know what they are these days, probably plastic. But anyway, uh, he said to her, and here's this sweet young thing, right? So, he didn't want, he didn't, you know, he tried to be polite and he said, uh, ‘I would like that, please, is it full?’ And she said, ‘well, just a minute, I'll take a look.’ And she said, ‘Yes it is, where is your bouquet?’ She thought it was a vase with water in it and he had to tell her what it was. No, and I know one of, one of my first patients on our medical rotation died of cancer. That was not good. And my first patient that I had on pediatrics, who was a little baby, I don't remember what was wrong with him, I remember his name, but I don't remember what was wrong with him. I had him for two days and he died. You know, I was, what, 19 years old so that's, you know, a lot of stuff like that and you know, there were really, really sick patients, so... CB [14:31]: Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Um, so moving on, like what was your path after Skidmore? �SG [14:41]: Well, I was offered a job at the University Hospital in pediatrics and I thought, oh, I thought that was very nice. But then I thought, I should probably try a different hospital, not be in the same place. So, I put in an application to Babies Hospital at Columbia and I wanted to, I wanted to work in New York, so that was fine, I moved there. And uh, I worked there for about three months and I hated it. And all the, almost all the nurses that were there, um, had gone to Columbia Presbyterian School and they were kind of snooty about it, you know, and they didn't like people from other schools and, and... Oh, I just, you know, of course I had to work Christmas, right? I knew I would have to do that because I was low man on the totem pole. And I thought, well, I was working nights and I thought, well at least I'll see the little kids wake up and see their stockings hanging on their beds, but when I went home, none of the children were awake. So that was horrible. So, I held out as long as I could. And then I went back down to University Hospital and asked the...spoke with the supervisor in pediatrics and I said, ‘is it still possible for me to come here?’ And she said, ‘I thought you'd be back.’ And uh, so I, I, you know, resigned from the job up there and the woman said, ‘Oh, you'll never get...and I'm not going to give you a good resume or anything.’ And I thought, well, I said, ‘It's okay. I have another job all lined up.’ So that's, you know. So, I was there for seven years and then I decided to come here and I've been here ever since. So, I've worked full time with no leave of absence for, well, a couple of months, you know, and that is at one point before I came over here, but I've worked 100% for 47 years. CB [16:37]: Wow. SG [16:39]: Yeah. On the bright side I haven't, I haven't gone on. We were encouraged to go on and get further degrees and everything, but of course we were told to work a couple of years before applying. And most of the grad schools, at that point, you had to have some job experience before you got in. So, uh, and a lot of my classmates did that and, but, but I, you know, I just wanted to be a nurse. I wanted to be at the bedside and I stayed at the bedside for 47 years and I've never regretted it. CB [17:10]: That's great. So, what made you move? Because now you live in, in Norway? SG [17:17]: Yes. Um, I was, um, well I had been here on vacation several times and I just really liked it here. So, I thought, well, I'd like to work over there for a year. And it took me almost a year to get all my papers together and, and get everything organized and get accepted to work here and everything. And I kept saying, oh, I can't go. That was a big step to take, you know, I thought, oh, I can't go because my grandmothers are both getting old and think if they die and everything. Of course, they didn't. So, and so I finally got my papers and with some courage together and came over and I was going to be here for a year, but that's, that's 47 years ago now. So, it's been a long year. CB [18:02]: Wow, that's, that's cool. Um, and how did you, while you worked, how did you find that what you had learned at Skidmore, uh, impacted or benefited you? SG [18:14]: Oh, I mean, I couldn't do anything. I couldn't, I knew nothing about nursing before I �started at Skidmore so it meant 350% of everything, if not 500%. Yeah. Every, everything, everything helped. Yeah. CB [18:27]: Oh, so how did the liberal arts education benefit you, do you think? SG [18:32]: Oh, I knew... I could talk about other things and I knew about other things than bedpans and urinals and blood transfusions and babies popping out and that kind of stuff. So could you, you know, you're dealing with people and people, normal people don't talk about, you know, medical or nursing conditions all the time. Then of course you do when you're working as a nurse. We were, there were a bunch of us who went out for dinner years ago over here to a restaurant. And we sat, I worked at work in an ICU here for 40 years, and that was, you know, it was pretty gory a lot of the time. And we sat there talking about blood and poop and you know, all sorts of horrible things and laughing and laughing. And finally, the people that were sitting at the next table, one of them leaned over and said, ‘Do you think you people could talk about something else, please?’ So, when you're together with a lot of people like that, you do talk a lot of job talk and stuff, but you have to know about art and history and literature and everything else that the world actually consists of in order to do this. CB [19:49]: Yeah. SG [19:49]: Yeah. CB [19:49]: Um, so the nursing program at Skidmore closed. SG [19:54]: Yeah. CB [19:54]: Do you remember learning about the closing of the program and how you felt about it? SG [20:00]: Oh, I think we were all devastated. Just devastated. I, do you know what year it closed? I can't remember. I graduated in '65. I'm thinking it maybe was in the early, early seventies. Do you know? CB [20:19]: Something around that. SG [20:21]: Yeah, I think so. No, I, I guess they sent a letter from, from Skidmore saying that they had to close and they had to close because people weren't applying as much anymore. And just at the, at the time, that we graduated in '65. I remember that. I had a classmate who was a math major and she got a job, bang, right out of college working for IBM. She didn't know beans about computers, you know, but she knew about math and she got the highest paying job of all the people in our class. And I think we were maybe 300, give or some, give it a little more than 300 classmates all together. And she got the highest paying job. Amazing. And you know, so girls were just beginning to be able to get jobs other than nurses, teachers, librarians, uh, you know, that kind of stuff, or, you know, good old, old fashioned women's jobs where people were beginning to branch out �and do something else. CB [21:24]: Yeah. SG [21:24]: So, but I remember getting that, oh, we're just, we were just devastated. Horrible. And it was expensive. It was getting more and more expensive to live in New York. Uh, I don't know if they lost those two dorm floors, but you know, there was a big faculty down there and they had to live someplace in New York and they had to pay the cost of living for New York City, which was not going down the drain. So, uh, I think that's one of the reasons they had. Well, there were several reasons they cut it out, but we didn't like it because we were really way, way at the top of the list of, um, nursing programs nationally. CB [22:05]: Yeah. So, did you communicate with like other Skidmore, Skidmore friends about it when you heard about the closing? SG [22:11]: Yeah, yeah, we did. And everybody was just thought, oh no, this is horrible. Just horrible. CB [22:17]: Yeah. Okay. Um, then I think on the, uh, when you first indicated your interest in participating in this project, yeah. I think you talked about a memory of the day of the JFK funeral. SG [22:33]: Oh yes. CB [22:34]: Do you want to tell me some more about that? SG [22:36]: Yeah, yeah, we were, we were in New York when he was shot. I remember exactly where I was in that building. I think everybody does that, you know, and, and uh, I was picking up my, I know this isn't the funeral, but I was getting, I was going to see what, if there was anything in my mailbox and the guy who manned the desk down at the, at the reception area said, ‘Did you hear the news?’ And I said, ‘No,’ I think there were two of us there, and we said, ‘No.’ And he said, ‘Kennedy just got shot.’ And, and we said, ‘Oh, come on, don't be funny that, that or that, that's not if you think that's funny, it's not a joke, you know.’ And he said, ‘No, it's not a joke and it's the truth.’ And then the funeral came and we were allowed to have the day off to watch it on television with the exception of two classmates who were on their public health, uh, rotation and they had patients waiting for them who needed to have a bath or have a treatment or something like that. And the, the, uh, the instructor would not let them have the day off and all the rest of us had the day off and we sat glued to the television. And so the, you know, these two poor girls, they were, they understood it. I mean, this, this is the reality of nursing. I mean, if it's Christmas, you work, if it's New Year's, you work, if it's the 4th of July, you work. Not every year, but you know that, that's the way it is. So that was very much brought home to them at that time. CB [24:06]: Yeah. �SG [24:07]: And people, of course, there were nothing, there was nothing called an iPhone or, you know, that you could look, you know, you could take it with you and watch it on TV as you were riding the subway to work or something. So, you had to be at home where there was a television, one television. CB [24:25]: Are there other, um, memories such as that one from either a particular class or a particular time that, um, you would like to share? Because as of now, I don't have any specific questions, but really any other... SG [24:40]: Well, let's see, uh, well that was, that was, uh, that was, we all were very much taken by that decision. And of course, the teacher was right. I mean these were sick people who were waiting, waiting for the nurse to come and uh, help them, right? Well, and I had this, speaking of public health, I had a patient. We had a 16-week rotation on public health and uh, we tramped the streets. We were placed in different areas of the city and I was in Brooklyn and I had a patient whose name was Molly and she was 80 years old and she lived in the childhood apartment that she had grown up with, in, with her two sisters. And the oldest, let's see... there was her, let me see, no. She was 82. She had an 80-year old sister who was younger who, um, sort of ruled the roost and she worked as a cleaning woman for a few families, so she had to make sure she was home when I came because Molly refused to take a bath. She refused. And uh, the sisters couldn't... no, no wait a minute. No, she was the oldest. She was the oldest one. So, she was the boss and the sisters said to her, the other sister was a, was a psychiatric patient and she laid, would not get out of her bed. And Molly tried to snatch the covers off of her and make her get up because she was the, the... She was tiny. Teeny weeny little skinny thing and the sisters were not paying any attention to her and, and they could not get her into a bathtub. So, I had to come once a week and give her a bath and she was like, uh, as nice as a kitten. When I arrived, I had to walk up a flight of about 25 stairs to get up to their apartment. She never recognized me. Not one single time for 16 weeks, and her sister would say, ‘Come down Molly, the nurse is here.’ And I would go up and I would get this little lady all...she had a thing about safety pins. Everything on her was pinned together. And I had to get all of those safety pins out and I had to get her into the bathtub. And every now and then I had to wash her hair. She didn't like that and she was all, she was as calm and as nice as anything. But the, and then she'd give me a big hug when I left and she'd say, ‘Oh, thank you and see you next week.’ And I'd come the next week. She never knew who I was. That was something, that was really, it was like taking care of a child. It really was, you know. Uh, let me see what else. Uh, we had a good time in New York, outside of the nursing. We've, as I said, we had no money. So, one of the things we used to do was to take the Staten Island Ferry, which cost a nickel in each direction. And if you went right out back again, it was a nickel round trip. So, we used to do that a lot. And of course, just walking the streets and looking at people and things was, was an education in itself. But it was quite an experience being in New York City. I would never move back there again now that, that's for sure. But I lived there for nine years altogether. So that was a, a...and Skidmore and the campus of course was completely different. Do you still have Yaddo? Do you know what Yaddo is? Okay. It's out at the end of Union Avenue, past the race track. And it was a huge, it was somebody's estate originally and then they turned it into �an artists' colony. It was a huge, huge tract of land with an enormous mansion in the middle of it. And all these artists, painters, and that kind of artist went and lived there and did their work and everything we used... And we were allowed to go out there and uh, and walk around the grounds and everything. So, we were there a lot. So, I don't know if, I wonder if it's still, have to check that out if it's still there. CB [28:53]: I will, yeah. SG [28:53]: It's out past the race track. CB [28:54]: Okay, I'll look into it. SG [28:57]: Oh, and we had something which was a tradition that, not just for nurses, but there was a bucket, which was called the bucket. And that was, the freshman class... each dorm was, they had a big competition and each dorm was try, had to get ahold of the bucket and hide it in their dorm, and then the other dorms would come ‘round rooms, this went on for the whole year and attack the dorm that had the bucket and try to find the bucket and take it to their dorm. So, this was something that was, oh, this was wonderful fun. We went, you know, this went on for a whole year, but that had nothing to do with nursing. This was everybody. CB [29:34]: Yeah. That's so fun though. Great. Well, thank you very much. SG [29:41]: You're most welcome. CB [29:42]: I'm going to stop the recording at this point. SG [29:45]: Okay. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Susan Gibbs '65 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Charlotte Bracklo '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:59 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Susan Gibbs '65 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/67b144764f24db7586044aa8b45764c1.jpg 5be0716b75515114b57b0de61eb85f2c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pat Loftman, May 23, 2016 (portrait) https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/609bad4d65366e068f899d5ea6f29d29.jpg 0bcfaa024da4b0494445d1bd1dc83f2f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Pat Loftman ACNM Fellows Induction, May 23, 2016 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/70a0804eeab16d011581caf4de53894f.m4a 472c6612c54edacaf47be1d20baf8261 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/08311c540eff8c367af01343d9e61d69.pdf ec5cdbc55f7312dd3d6a66f604143118 PDF Text Text Interview with Patricia Loftman '71 by Skidmore Student [Unknown], COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. SKIDMORE STUDENT [00:00]: Could you start by saying your name and your class year? PATRICIA LOFTMAN [00:02]: My name is Patricia Loftman. I graduated in 1971. SS [00:10]: Okay. And, where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore’s Nursing program. PL [00:15]: Where did I attend high school? SS [00:17]: Where were you born? Where did you grow up? PL [00:19]: Oh, where was I born. Oh, my family immigrated to the US from Jamaica in the Caribbean. When I was about eight years old, actually my, my parents were here in the state, I was raised by my grandparents in Jamaica. SS [00:36]: And where did you move to, when you moved to the states? PL [00:40]: Oh, we moved to Washington, D.C. where my dad was attending dental school at Howard University. SS [00:48]: Okay. did your family, so your dad was a dentist, did other family members have a background in medicine and nursing? PL [00:55]: No, he's actually the only one who has, any, any background in the healthcare field, everybody else is in other industries. SS [01:06]: And so, what was your educational background before you joined the program? Like did you, did you work before? Did you, go to school? PL [01:17]: Eventually we migrated to New York where I went to school, completed middle school and high school in the Bronx. In New York City. SS [01:30]: And did you always know you wanted to be a nurse? What drew you to the program? PL [01:36]: Well, when I entered Skidmore in 1966, my plan was to go into medicine. I entered as a pre-med major, completed my first year. My first year went fairly well, by the end. By the beginning of my sophomore year there was just something about the socialization into medicine that was just not appealing. And I began to look at other avenues and it seemed that nursing, would be more cognizant with who I was as an Individual and in terms of my interactions with human beings. So, I transferred my premed credits into nursing. SS [02:25]: And what about Skidmore, why did you choose here over other programs? �PL [02:30]: Actually, I didn't choose Skidmore. There were, the 60s was a very interesting time politically. It was very, very difficult for African Americans to get a decent quality education, especially in colleges and universities. And at that time, it was in the middle of the height of the civil rights era and there was a move to integrate a lot of the colleges and universities as a way for students of color, specifically African Americans to gain access to higher education. And at the time, a lot of the Ivy League schools were beginning to open up their doors and Skidmore was one of them. And so, my guidance counselor in high school actually chose it for me. My family didn't know anything about it. I didn't know anything about Skidmore, didn't know where Skidmore was, didn't know anything about it, but he thought it would be good for me. So, he chose it and I was accepted and I went. SS [03:28]: Wow, that’s got to be kind of intimidating, to go somewhere that you don’t know about at all and pretty far from home. PL [03:35]: It was. It was very intimidating. SS [03:39]: So, what was it like being in the program? What was it like being part of that new generation of women and people of color who were allowed to be in these programs? What was that like? PL [03:52]: It was, it actually was very, very traumatic and very painful. At the time, in 1966, Skidmore was an all-women's college. It was a small liberal arts college. One of those seven sister schools that you, you may or may not have heard about that existed at that time. It would have included Skidmore, Bryn Mawr, Smith, those kinds of schools. And Skidmore was somewhat smaller. If my memory serves me correct, there were less than 2000 women on campus and of those 2000 only, there were only seven students of color and they were actually all African Americans. My incoming freshman class had the largest number, four of us came in. There was one sophomore, her name was Linda Taliaferro. She has since passed away. There was one junior and one senior. So, it was very, very isolating actually. SS [04:53]: Did you find it was difficult to socialize and be a member - did you not feel much like a member of the community? PL [05:00]: No, we really were not. We were not welcomed. As a matter of fact, the four of us really stuck together for our own emotional health and sanity. At that time, because they were unisex schools, the surrounding male schools such as Williams and Wesleyan, they were all male at the time. So, by noon on Fridays, the campus was deserted because everyone had transportation alternatives that we didn't have. This was our first exposure to money and to wealth and to privilege, and to power. And we were not prepared for that at all. So, by noon on Friday, there was this huge campus and we were the only ones on it because everybody was gone. So, it was not, it was not a good time. It was not a good time for us. �SS [05:57]: I’m so sorry that that was your experience. Yeah, I mean I can't fathom because I have not been in that position, but I believe that that must've been so awful and painful and I'm just thankful that you are willing to talk to me about it. So, thank you so much. So, um, in terms of academics, what was the course load like? What were the classes that you are taking for the nursing program? PL [06:26]: So, the curriculum for the nursing program was your standard curriculum that you would find in any nursing program then and today. I have to say in retrospect, because I've always wondered what my preparation was like academically compared to others. I can say that Skidmore prepared me extremely well. I mean, I still remember my faculty. I remember Doris Diller. I remember Jean, what was Jean's last name? I don't remember her name, but I remember my faculty, they were absolutely wonderful. We had a rigorous course of study and I think that it, I think academically it most definitely prepared me quite well. SS [07:14]: Um, do you have any memories about Agnes Gelinas? PL [07:15]: She, I think she was before me. I know the name, but I never had her. SS [07:20]: Okay. Yeah, I can't remember when she retired. It might've been ’61 or ’62. So that was right before you. PL [07:29]: Yeah, I came with Jean Campbell, Doris Diller. I'm trying to remember some of the other people, but, Jean Campbell and Doris still, I remember vividly. SS [07:39]: Do you have any favorite classes or favorite memories with them? PL [07:45]: I don't know if you know, Doris Diller I remembered I had her for pediatrics and I had her for a peds and something else, I don't remember, but Doris Diller, her background had been in the military and she ran us like we were in the military and she was rigid and she was strict. I mean, she was by the book, but boy do I, do I respect her now and appreciate her, because I, you know, at the time you don't realize what you're being prepared for and it's only after you've had that experience and reflected back that you recognize that you, that she prepared you very, very well. SS [08:34]: That's great. Do you remember, can you tell me a little bit about going to New York City for that portion of the program? PL [08:41]: The program. I loved it. I loved getting back to the city. Oh my God. That was one of the perks and benefits that put me in nursing, I knew that I would get back to the city for two years and it was just wonderful. We lived in a dorm, we lived in two dorms. The first one was on 20th Street, East 20th Street between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. And it was an older building that was, the norm at the time. But it was, it was just really nice being back in New York and just not being isolated and the having the flexibility to just move around. Plus, I was from the city, so I was able to get back and see my friends and my family. It was just really nice being back in New York. And then after about, maybe �about a year, a new dorm was constructed on 38th Street. So, we moved from Fahnestock on 20th Street to 38th Street. The newer building was more aligned with the newer construction that was going on at the time. Fahnestock was one of your older buildings. It was very homely. And so, it had a nice quality to it. The newer dorm was just like a regular building. But it didn't have the architecture that the old dorm had and it just didn't have the home feel that the old dorm had. But you know, it was just a dorm and we made it work. SS [10:15]: Are there any memories you - that come back to you from your time in New York? PL [10:21]: Nothing that really stands out because here again, there was one other student of color, her name was Gloria Hairston, and she too has made her transition and passed on. So, it was just Gloria and myself in the dorm and even in New York, I'm talking about now as a student, we really were not, hang on one second... Even in the dorm we would essentially go to class and then just disappear because even back here in New York, we were not part of the Skidmore nursing program back here in New York. So, it was really nice to be back in New York. All I had to do was go to school, go to class, you know, do my work. But I didn't have to worry about being isolated anymore. SS [11:18]: So, I’m excited to talk to you about your career after you left, Skidmore. What path did you take? PL [11:23]: So, once I graduated, I worked as a nurse in the emergency room and the intensive care unit at one of the public hospitals here in New York called Lincoln Hospital. And I don't know if you've seen the movie, The Godfather? SS [11:40]: I haven't. PL [11:41]: Okay. So, in that movie, The Godfather, there is a scene where, Marlon Brando gets shot and he's taken to a hospital. Well, the hospital that was used in The Godfather movie was where I worked, and I was there when they were shooting that particular scene. And it was so interesting because that was, Lincoln Hospital, it was named after President Abraham Lincoln. It was previously a home for formerly enslaved African Americans. And after slavery was ended, it was converted into a hospital and named Lincoln Hospital. As a matter of fact, I worked at Lincoln before I actually took my nursing boards. In those days, and I think it still exists, after you finish your first formal year of nursing [education], you could take the licensed practical nursing boards and work as a practical nurse. I certainly was not privileged and I didn't have, my family didn't have money, so I actually had to do that. After I completed my first year of nursing, I took my licensed practical nursing exam, passed, and worked as a licensed practical nurse during the summer so that I could get money to go back to school in the fall. And then, once I completed my full nursing studies, then of course I took my registered nursing boards, and passed those. So, I had already begun to work at Lincoln as a practical nurse. So, of course, once I passed my registered nursing boards, I just continued. SS [13:25]: And what path did you take, I know you’re a Nurse Midwife now. So how did you �get there? PL [13:28]: Now that is really interesting how that transition occurred. I worked at Lincoln for many years. Then I became a mom and it was difficult for me to do the night schedule and the weekend schedule, I wanted something that was more Monday through Friday, nine to five. So, I transitioned and worked for a foster care agency as the nurse who coordinated the medical care for children who were in foster care. And I did that for a while. And while I was doing that, I learned about midwifery. I had always, always loved OB. I mean always when I was in nursing school, OB and peds were my two favorites. And those were the ones that I really excelled in. I learned about midwifery and I said, ‘oh, I had not known about midwifery.’ I knew about midway from when I was growing up in Jamaica because in the Caribbean, midwives are utilized a lot. But I didn't know that there were midwives in the U.S. and when I learned that there were midwives in the U.S., I said, ‘that's what I'm going to do.’ So, I applied to Columbia University. They had a program in the graduate school of nursing and I applied and was accepted. I went to midwifery school for two years, from 1980 to 1982. During that time, going to midwifery school was very, very challenging because, back in the 80s, the only way you could do midwifery education was full time. That has subsequently changed. You can do midwifery school now part time. But in those days, back in the 70s and 80s, you had to go full time and it was two full years, four academic quarters, four academic semesters. I always tell people, had I known, had I had a crystal ball and knew how rigorous that program was, I don't know that I would have ever started. But once I was in it, I was in it and I vowed to see it through to completion. And I'm glad I did. But it was probably one of the most grueling courses of studies I have ever undertaken. SS [15:46]: And then so, what was your career like after becoming, getting your licensure for midwifery? PL [15:52]: It was, it was wonderful. It was absolutely wonderful. I went to work at Harlem Hospital, which is also one of the public hospitals here in New York. I have always vowed to work in the public system. That's where most people of color are, most underserved populations are. And historically these populations have believed that because they are poor that they have to accept second class health care, second class medical care. And I went, I, so I've always worked in public systems because I always wanted to dispel this myth that because you receive your healthcare in a public institution, that you're getting second class medical care because that for me was not the case. And so, I went to Harlem. Harlem was my, was my only, employer. I stayed there for 30 years. I went in as a brand-new midwife and left as a retiree and it was just absolutely wonderful. During those 30 years the women taught me how to be a good midwife. I had the opportunity to see health care, to see many things come and go. I was there when HIV started. I was there when HIV became an issue for women. At Harlem Hospital we took care of the first pregnant women with HIV in New York. I was there and eventually ended up developing an expertise in taking care of those women, HIV infected women, and women whose pregnancies were complicated by drug use. I really developed an expertise. In the 80s and 90s, that's pretty much what I did. And then, once crack and HIV somewhat subsided, I branched out into the total range of women's �reproductive health care and that's what I did until I retired. It was really a wonderful, wonderful career. So now I am more involved with the administrative part. I'm on the board of the American College of Nurse Midwives, which is the professional organization for midwives. I'm also now the chair of one of the committees in our organization which is called the Midwives of Color. Our goals and objectives are to promote the recruitment, the retention and the graduation of underrepresented racial and ethnic groups - primarily African American, Latinos, Asians, indigenous Native American students, and Alaskan Native students. So that's what I'm doing now. SS [18:55]: Do you see a big change in the field, since you’ve moved to the more administrative side of things? PL [18:58]: Well, midwifery has changed considerably from when I was educated. First, the amount of information that students learn today is almost quadruple, but I had to learn in 1980. Healthcare has changed, technology has changed. Health care, the amount of information the students now have to learn is completely different. I learned about HIV and chemical dependency and drug use as a professional, whereas students are now learning about it now. The, clinical expertise of midwives has expanded. When I was a student, we were primarily relegated to prenatal care, labor and delivery and we did some reproductive women's health care. Now we are doing just a lot of procedures. Midwifery practice has expanded into midwives doing sonograms, midwives, do a lot of the technical skills that you would see a lot of physicians doing. We do terminations those of us who, acquire the education and the skills. So, midwifery in terms of the practice has just changed dramatically from when I was a student and even a beginning practitioner. SS [20:27]: Um, how do you think your Skidmore education helped you with your career? PL [20:29]: Well, in terms of my preparation, it was certainly very valuable. I mean, I, when I walked into Lincoln Hospital as a nurse, I was prepared. I knew exactly what to do, and actually, I actually excelled. But I also think it was very helpful when I went to Columbia, when I went to graduate school. That was also very helpful. So, I mean, as traumatic as my undergraduate days were at Skidmore in terms of my ability to successfully navigate graduate education, it helped. SS [21:05]: And remember we spoke a little bit about this, but you didn't seem to have too much of an opinion about the closing of the program? PL [21:11]: You know, I don't know anything about the closing of the program. When I finished Skidmore, I just wanted to run away. I didn't want to have anything to do with Skidmore. I just wanted to get out. And when I got out, that's exactly what I did. I didn't look back, period. I didn't go back to Skidmore. I didn't go back to campus for many years. I think I first went back for a reunion maybe about 10 years ago. I had not been back to Saratoga and I hadn't done anything with Skidmore for many years. It was just that traumatic. So, I didn't know when the school closed. I learned about the school closing maybe five or six years after the school closed. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't read about it. I really just wanted to drop off the face of the earth as far as Skidmore was concerned. �SS [22:01]: What was it like being back? PL [22:05]: Well, the biggest thing of course is the campus. I was raised on the old campus, whereas everything is now on the new campus. They were just building the new campus when I left. So, the new campus is completely new for me. My days were spent on the old campus and I have to tell you, I loved the old campus. The old campus was beautiful. I don't know if you've had any contact with the old campus, but we loved the old campus. We loved those buildings. Oh my God, they're just so gracious. For me the new campus is just brick and stone and it's cold. SS [22:42]: Yes, I do have those feelings, especially in the dead of winter. PL [22:49]: Yeah, the old campus was not like that. I mean the old campus was just really, really warm and I missed, I’m not even talking about just the building, just the whole feel of the campus, it's completely different. That campus had a sense of community where that I'd never, I mean by the time I graduated, maybe, I think McClellan was finished, Kimball was finished. I think there were maybe only two buildings and none of us ever wanted to go to the new campus. So, we were glad we didn't have to. SS [23:37]: I guess my last question would be, what does it mean to you to be a nurse? PL [23:40]: Well, I have a background in nursing but I'm not a nurse. I'm a midwife. And those are two completely distinct and separate professions. They do completely different things. And that's something that we find ourselves having to explain all the time. It's hard to explain. Nursing, is a distinct profession. Midwifery is a distinct profession. Midwives are directly responsible for patient care. In other words, we have to assess and make decisions. Not that nurses don't, but it's a different kind of decision. So, while my background is in nursing, my profession is that of a midwife. SS [24:39]: What does that mean to you? What is your purpose as a midwife? PL [24:40]: My purpose is to number one, acquire the information, the knowledge and the skills that I need to render the best medical care that I can for women. And I think that I was very successful in that. One of the hallmarks of midwifery, we talk about this a lot, is that midwives listen to women but we do a lot more than just listen. We literally do a lot, in addition to just what you would expect us to do in terms of having the knowledge, having the information and having the technical skills, we do a lot of teaching and a lot of education. And that is just so important and it's not valued. Teaching, counseling, educating patients... It's not valued in medicine, but that's really what, what individuals need to keep themselves healthy. I think the bulk of Americans, if they understood that their own health is literally in their hands, if they only had the information. And so, I spent a lot of time teaching, you never left my office without a handout about something, never. And we would talk about it on the next visit. You never left me without having something in your hands to read that was pertinent to you. And the women valued that because no one had ever taken the time to talk to them. And that's what they loved, is �talking. Because it says that you were engaged in their healthcare and, one of the problems is that people, both providers and, and women, tend to think of health care in one direction - from the provider to the patient. But it's, it's bidirectional. Patient to provide, provider to patient. But we have socialized Americans to believe that it's unidirectional. Provider to patient. And so, they have, they have accepted that dynamic, that relationship. And so, to have someone like midwives who say, ‘no, no, this is a by directional relationship here. This is a relationship.’ And that's another thing when I provide health care, it's a relationship. It's building a relationship. By the time, for example, by the time I retired, I was attending the birth of children I had brought into this world. I was now attending their children's births. That was amazing for me, to know that I had attended the birth of someone and 18 or 20 years later here I was, that this individual is now a young adult and they have entrusted me with attending the birth of their child. SS [27:47]: That’s incredible. PL [27:48]: It was. The first time it happened, it was an absolutely weird feeling. I remember the grandmother, this woman came. I walked into the room, they didn't know that they had me in common. And so, the grandmother, who was my patient, pointed to me, I mean, she was literally in my face pointing as she was trying to get, the words out. She kept saying, “it's you, it's you, it's you, it's you”. And I didn't know what she was talking about. And then by the time she calmed down, she explained that I had been her midwife and had attended her birth. This was her child whose birth I was now attending. SS: Wow that is so great, thank you for sharing that with me. PL [28:33]: Yeah, no. You know, I look back, even though it's been almost 10 years since I've retired because, I live close by in the neighborhood, I see the women all over the city. There's no place I can go in New York as big as New York is. I cannot tell you how many times I am literally walking the streets and someone says to me, ‘Hi Ms. Loftman, you don't remember me, you were my midwife, you did this, you did that.’ I mean, I'm in Costco, I'm on the bus. It's just amazing. SS [29:09]: Wow. That's great. That actually used to happen to my grandfather a lot. He was a neurosurgeon. PL [29:15]: I didn't hear you. SS [29:16]: I said that used to happen to my grandpa whenever we were out, he was a neurosurgeon and people would always come up and say the same thing to him. PL [29:26]: Yeah. that's when you know you've made a mark. That's when you know, if you close your eyes and make your transition today, you left your mark behind in the world. SS: [29:40]: I think that's all the questions I have for you if you want to go ahead and stop recording. �� Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Patricia Loftman '71 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 29:46 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Patricia Loftman, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Patricia Loftman '71 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0660ae261496941b59b81b45ba0841d9.jpeg b9166cd475824978d15bb37603af787d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/08525e55a3343c172bb6542d07315ac7.m4a 3b7e60860a34033f85c24ef2039cbc15 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/471d9889f86bde2cb8930eb53e37b0e2.pdf c06861fc76fabfc9e002d3233fbc5e07 PDF Text Text Interview with Deborah Wick '71 by Charlotte Bracklo '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. DEBORAH WICK [00:00]: Okay. I think it's working. CHARLOTTE BRACKLO [00:02]: Great. Okay. So where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore's nursing program? DW [00:09]: I grew up in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. Let's see. I did a little college tour, but I don't think that Skidmore was even included in it, so I'm not really sure why I went to Skidmore. And I was so young then. I don't know, my parents did not help me with my college choice decisions and my school counselor really didn't help me much either. So, I'm not really sure how I landed at Skidmore, but I did land there and um, so yeah, it was a good decision for me though in the end. CB [00:46]: Good. Um, so did your family have a background in medicine or nursing or...? DW [00:53]: Okay, so did my family have a background in medicine or nursing? Yes, both my parents were physicians. My mom, um, worked in an emergency room for just a little while and then she had children, so she didn't really practice for very much of her life. My father was a psychoanalyst and so he was a physician and, and became a psychoanalyst then and, and practiced for all of his life. And we, um, yeah... But I did not enter Skidmore with the intention of becoming a nurse. I really had intended to become a teacher. That was my goal all the time while I was growing up. I was like, I was going to be a teacher because I like children and I thought that that's what I wanted to do. And when I got to Skidmore, um, I was there for the first two years. Most of the...most of the nursing students, you know, do one year at Skidmore and then two years in New York City and then one year at Skidmore, but I decided late my freshman year to become a nurse because even though I had no experience with a hospital, I'd never been to a hospital, I don't think. I don't remember ever being in the hospital. I had no idea what I was doing. But New York City... you got to go to New York City and I did not love being in Saratoga. And Saratoga then was not like it is now for you guys. It was a real Podunkville town. It had bars and that was... and a post office, and that was about it. So, I really didn't love being out in the country like that so much. I thought I would, but I didn't like it. And so, the pull of New York City was tremendous for me. And seeing the seniors come back to Skidmore, to Saratoga, they were so sophisticated and so sure of themselves. And when I was a freshman I just, I did not feel sure of myself at all. I felt really, um, awkward and I didn't... I'd gone to a big public high school, I didn't, you know… there were a lot of women for, um, from private schools who knew how to small talk and, and be socially competent, and I just felt like, I just felt so awkward. But seeing �the seniors come back, it was so cool. I was like, ‘oh I'm going to go to, I'm going to become a nurse.’ I can remember calling my dad and being worried because he would have wanted me to be a doctor, of course, not a nurse. So I called, but they were fine. And so I went to New York City and that's how I got into the Nursing program and it turned out that it was a wonderful career for me. And, um, except that I had a lot of trouble at the beginning of getting used to blood, but after I got used to blood then I did all right. But anyway, that's what I did. That's how I got to be a nurse. CB [03:39]: Were there, just based on what you just said, can you, like incidences that you remember where, like, your fear of blood was an issue? DW [03:49]: When I, when I finished, um, Skidmore and graduated, I got married right away and um, my husband and I moved to California, to Berkeley. And, um, I worked one year as a med-surge nurse and I did get used to it pretty quickly. It just wasn't a huge deal. It made me woozy for a little while and then I just got used to it I guess because you're just so busy when you're in nursing, you got so much you've got to do that… I just didn't, didn't have time really to be too worried about it or for it to linger. But I did choose to become a psychiatric nurse. So, one year after graduating I worked in med-surge on a low-income clinic floor, which was great experience. So, all kinds of things. And then I, um, went to graduate school at University of California, San Francisco, and got a master's degree in psychiatric nursing. And I did that for a while. I did that for about eight years after I graduated. But then I didn't love that either, too much. So, I'd had, um, I had a couple... I had my son, my oldest child in 1975. And then, in 1977, I had my daughter and I had her at home. I did not go to the hospital. I did not love the hospital for birth, giving birth. It was not a great experience. And so being in Berkeley and being a young hippie at the time, I had my second child at home. And after that I decided what I really wanted was to become a nurse midwife. And that's... that was my, that was my passion for the rest of my career. It really was a passion. I loved being a nurse midwife. I absolutely loved it. So, when... let's see, so that was in ‘77… I had Sarah and then, um, I had another child, Annie, in 1980. And then finally... so I had these three kids… my husband was... we were living in Athens, Georgia at the time. My husband was at the university. He was an English professor. And um, I know this is not very organized the way I'm doing, telling you this, is it? CB [06:06]: No worries at all. It's really totally up to you. DW [06:09]: Okay. So, then I, um, well I read a lot of... I read a lot of feminist literature at that time. I was reading a lot of feminist stuff and it just happened that one summer right after I decided... after a couple of years after having Annie, after '80, I decided this is it. I really want to go back to school and become a nurse midwife. And so, um, Annie was �born at home also. So, the first one was in the hospital, then Sarah was at home, Annie was at home. Then I decided I'm going to school because I was reading all this, all this feminist stuff. So, I, you know, just said to my husband, ‘look I gotta go, we gotta go to school.’ So, he took a leave of absence and a sabbatical. He took enough time so that he came and took care of the children. And I went to graduate school at Georgetown University and got a master's degree in nurse midwifery. And so that was really the, that was really, I know that's a long time. It was like 10 years after I graduated, but that was really the beginning of my career. When I was working in psychiatric nursing I did work. Um, I worked in the hospital and I did continue in education and then I taught in a baccalaureate nursing program. I taught psychiatric nursing. But really, when I became a nurse midwife, that was the beginning of my career. And that's, you know, my real love. The thing that I really loved to do. So that was my beginning. CB [07:38]: That's, that's really great. Um, I'm just going to base off of the questions that we have and kind of jump back to high school real quick. Um, you kind of mentioned that you didn't really plan on being a nurse, but what was your educational background before joining the program? Like were you focused on sciences in general or...? DW [08:01]: No, I kind of was all over the place. I really didn't know because I, I was planning on being a teacher so it doesn't, wasn't really focused on one thing or another. And I was thinking early education like so elementary school teacher. So I didn't really... no, I just kind of had a general... and you know... Hold on a second, I gotta pick up my phone. Um, and in those days you didn't have as much choice. Like you guys have much of a choice, then you didn't, you just took what you took. You took English, you took a science, you took history, you took, you know, one of everything and it was pretty much prescribed for you. You didn't really get to choose a lot. Maybe, you know, I got to choose my language. I took French, but there wasn't a lot of choice. CB [08:45]: Okay. And then to your Skidmore experience. Um, what was your sense of the program before you started? Did you have, did you know the nursing program existed since you weren't really planning on doing that or...? DW [09:05]: No, I had no idea they existed until I met these seniors who came back from New York City and then I was like, ‘oh wow.’ And I think, um, I don't think any of my roommates did it, but I may have met somebody who was going in the nursing program and they were... I wasn't the only, you know, most people did the 1-2-1 program or one in New York, uhh one in Skidmore and then two in New York City and one on campus. But there were a few, I think there were three other women along with me who had decided later who went, who did the two and two, two years and two years like I did. But, um, so �being at Skidmore was, you know, during those years, I don't, have you interviewed anybody else who's around this age of mine? CB [09:56]: Uh, no. You're my first interviewee. DW [09:58]: Okay. Um, well during those years at Skidmore, we went from being a freshman and having all of these rules where you couldn't do... There were no boys in the dorm. There were curfews every night. You had to wear a skirt to dinner every night. And we used to wear raincoats with our nightgowns underneath them because nobody would know you didn't have a skirt on. But, um, just lots and lots of rules, to our senior year when there were no rules… Boys could come all the time, you could wear whatever you wanted to. So, it was like this huge transition in the culture of, you know, of the country during those four years that I happened to be in college, um, which was fascinating in itself. But um, being in New York City was the biggest... So, my junior and senior year was when most of the changes happened, was between junior and senior year. So, um, we were right on, well, the first year we were on 2nd Avenue and 20th Street and then they built a whole new building for us that summer. And the next year we were at 34th Street and 1st Avenue. So, our first year at, at...in New York, um, we were in a dorm, this old decrepit building really. And the dorm, everything was in the same building. So, you lived upstairs and then you had the classroom and, um, faculty offices were downstairs. So, it was all one building in New York. But, um, the first year was a really decrepit building. So that was very memorable because, um, we even collected a huge jar of cockroaches, I believe, and sent them to the president of Skidmore because this building was so decrepit. We used to cook. We had to cook our own meals because there was no meal service. So, we, and we have, I think we had a couple of hot plates and it was just like, it was kind of crazy for the tuition we were paying. And I think our parents all were up in arms, so they all wrote to the president too. And then the next year they had built this huge... It was an older building, but they had totally renovated it. And it was gorgeous. A gorgeous building with...We got to choose our carpet and our furniture. And, um, it was just crazy. It was just crazy. It was just a time of so much transition for me. But anyway, so that was my kind of Skidmore experience and I never did go back to Saratoga because I was graduated after my, you know, after my second New York year. CB [12:42]: And so, it sounds like you had, you enjoyed your time in New York City. DW [12:48]: We loved being in New York, just loved it. You know, the nursing classes were really small. I don't know how big our class was, but it was small. You know it wasn't like a hundred students. It was like…I don't remember how many, I wish I could remember. You'll have to look that up. But anyway, so it was just this really intimate, um, small group of women and we became very close and we, we would do stuff in New �York. Like we go to a lot of the plays on Broadway. We would go for standing room only because we couldn't afford to get tickets, but we could do the standing room only. We'd go to Broadway plays and we would... I remember my roommate and I went down and we took a pottery class down in Greenwich Village. Um, and we just had a great time. It was wonderful. Oh and we'd do, like we would do the visiting, we had, um, one of our courses was Community Health Nursing, so we would go down to the Lower East Side to these very poor sections, um, with our public nurse uniforms on and we'd go into these tenement houses and, um, deal with people there. It was just… it was a lot different than being in Saratoga for me. And it was really wonderful. I loved it. CB [14:10]: So, you just mentioned a class that you, that you took. Are there any other classes that you remember as like sticking out or any teachers, professors that you had? DW [14:23]: Yeah, I loved all of our nursing courses, I don't know why. I was not a great student my freshman and sophomore year, well I was better sophomore year, but then my nursing two years, those courses were hard. And there was a lot more work for those courses than the ones that we'd have on campus. And, um, but I really enjoyed them so much more, I guess because I was more focused on what I wanted to do by then. And I remember a psych nursing course was fascinating, we went to the VA hospital and dealt with some very mentally ill people. But I remember our professor… Well most of our professors were quite young. There was one older med-surge professor, but our psych professor would have us over to her apartment, which was kind of fun and have lunch, you know, have lunch for us and stuff like that. Yeah, we, yeah, I kind of loved all that stuff. Loved those days. We'd walk up 1st Avenue at night to the library at NYU and use their library. And I don't know, it was fun. It was a different experience. You can tell probably from the experience that you're having, it's a different kind of, different kind of thing, different opportunity. CB [15:37]: Yeah, it definitely sounds different. DW [15:41]: More of an urban kind of thing. CB [15:45]: And, um, so after Skidmore, how did you think what you learned at Skidmore or like the liberal arts program? How did it impact or serve you in your future career? DW [15:58]: Um, you know, it was really good. They, they would always tell us that because we've gone to a baccalaureate program we would, would not have had as much focus on actual nursing skills like um, like starting an IV or, you know, suctioning somebody or something, a physical kind of skill and that is true. We did not have as much of that, but we had, we had a really good basis for decision-making and um, anatomy and physiology �and why you were doing things and how to, how to make decisions about a patient. So, I really felt like it served us very well in that way. And the skills we learned very quickly, you know, because anybody can learn how to start an IV. It's just a physical procedure that you just, after you do it five times, you know how to do it. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't take a lot of judgment or thinking, it's just a... like a thing that you learned to do. And, but we had a really good education and sort of the, all the background stuff on how you make decisions and why you make decisions. So, I felt really, really good about that. Um, and that has always helped me. It's kind of like one of the things we learned was how to learn. We didn't just learn stuff, but we learned how to learn stuff and how to find out stuff and how to, how to problem solve a problem and that kind of thing. So that was really good and that helped me well. CB [17:29]: Good. So, um, you kind of already talked a little bit about your career path earlier, but when you first indicated your interest in being part of this memory project, you mentioned that you opened your own midwifery home birth practice? DW [17:47]: I did. CB [17:48]: Could tell me more about that? DW [17:50]: Yes. Yes, I could tell you more about the home birth practice. Um, so one of the things that Skidmore I think set us up to be was kind of leaders in our fields. I mean, we felt like we knew what we were doing. We felt pretty confident, confident in making our own decisions, maybe. I'm not sure what it was, but we all kind of went off and did our own thing regardless of what we were supposed to do. Do you know what I mean? We could make our own decisions. So, we um, so I... after Nurse Midwifery School, um… well first of all, at Georgetown was a very, um, it was a very good nurse midwifery program and the head of our program was a woman who had actually started a home birth service in the Washington DC area. So, she was very open to alternative methods of childbirth and natural childbirth. And so, I had gone through school with experiences at an out of hospital birth center, I had done one home birth as a nursing... as a midwifery student… and so I was very comfortable with that and I'd had three of my own children by then at home. So, I... so the first thing I did after midwifery school was, I worked in a, in a hospital, in a low-income midwifery clinic and it was great experience for me. But what I really wanted to do was to do home birth because, you know, that's where my heart was. So, I decided I was going to start my own home birth business with, with another woman who lived in Athens, this was in Athens, Georgia, and another woman who lived there. And so, um, we went to a lawyer and find out what the laws were and there weren't as many laws then as there are now about midwifery. But anyway, um, we �had a backup doctor who if one of our patients ran into trouble, she would go and see him. But very quick... Oh, can you hear me still? CB [19:56]: Yeah. DW [19:56]: Okay. I got a call waiting, but I'm just ignoring it. Um, so within, I can't, maybe within the first year of opening our own practice, we started to get quite a few clients. So, we had maybe, we started out with maybe two births a month and then we got up to about six births a month. And right in that period, the doctors in the town in Athens, there were two practices. Each had, I think at the time it started with this, they each had four doctors, three doctors… three or four doctors in each practice, I don't remember. But they were so upset that I was doing what I was doing and, um, they decided as part... I was also teaching part-time at Medical College of Georgia School of Nursing that had a satellite program in Athens. So, I was also teaching part-time because obviously I was not supporting myself with six births a month. So, I was teaching part-time and doing births part-time. They, these doctors, these two groups of doctors got together and decided that any woman who was cared for by one of them could not... none of my students in Medical College of Georgia could work with those, those women. And it was like, what? Because then I couldn't teach obstetrics obviously, right? Because I couldn't work with any of my students, my students couldn't work with any of the patients in either of the hospitals in Athens. It was really crazy. So, then I started to find out more and more stuff. Um, and finally I decided to file a lawsuit because, um, I don't, I don't remember. So, the lawsuit is really, really complicated so I don't want to get into all the details of it, but basically, I filed for first amendment rights for free speech because they, one of the things they complained about was that I would teach women that there were pros and cons of circumcision. Believe it or not, that was one of their chief complaints. The other one was that in the labor rooms, I would let my students dim the lights so they wouldn't have the bright lights on. It was like, these crazy things they were coming out with. So then in the course of the lawsuit, we found it that they definitely, they really did want to shut down my practice. That was their intent. So, the lawsuit became an antitrust lawsuit because I was practicing legally, I had a backup doctor. The only thing that, the main thing that they didn't like, it turns out that they didn't like, was that I was salaried. I was not salaried by anyone. I was... My patients paid me directly. If they needed my backup doctor, they would pay him directly. So, they were upset because I was the only nurse midwife in the whole state who is not salaried by a hospital or a physician and so therefore under the control of a hospital or a physician. They really, they just couldn't deal with that, the independence thing. So, this lawsuit went on for five years and then there was another whole tail end of it, but at the end of the five years they did settle with me. And, um, I ended up moving out of town because my husband wanted to move to Los Angeles at that point. So, um, I ended up moving out of town, which was a good thing �because they kind of sued... it was, everyone was so up in arms over this lawsuit. There were even articles in the Atlanta Journal Constitution about this lawsuit. I mean it was crazy. And I, it was very upsetting for me. It was very stressful. And so, at the end of the lawsuit when we settled, I did get to rewrite the bylaws of the hospital, which was great. And um, they couldn't, you know, obviously they couldn't squash a home birth practice after that. They had to allow the home birth practices to go on and um, but I, but I left town, which kind of was a healing thing for us because I was like the lightning rod in the whole debate. Do you have any questions about that? So complicated. It was really complicated, but I ended up suing ten doctors and two hospitals at the end. It was very traumatic. CB [24:17]: Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that. DW [24:21]: That was the most traumatic thing of my whole career. CB [24:25]: Yeah, I can imagine. DW [24:26]: Obviously, obviously. CB [24:28]: And sorry, just moving on…In LA then, I think you had indicated this as well, you helped develop and run a prematurity prevention program? DW [24:43]: Yeah. That was... so I went to...We left Athens with our kids. My husband got a, um, decided that he wanted to try to do screen writing. So he was, he got a fellowship for the American Film Institute in Los Angeles, so that, and it was right at the end of the lawsuit. So, um, we went to Los Angeles, we moved to Los Angeles. And then, um, I started working for a big Kaiser hospital there. Um, Southern California is basically run by Kaiser. They kind of have a monopoly there, so there are lots and lots of Kaiser hospitals. And I was in a really large Kaiser Hospital and I was working, when I started working there, there were six nurse midwives, by the time I left there were twelve. So, we had um... the nurse midwives had half of the labor and delivery floor and then the doctors had a high-risk area, but the nurse midwives did seventy percent of all the deliveries, we did all of the low-risk deliveries. And we actually did a little bit of the high-risk ones, but not too much. So, there was a floor with this birthing center was half of it, and then the other half was the labor and delivery unit where the high-risk patients would be. And, um, that was an amazing job. We did a lot of deliveries. We would work 24-hour shifts, two midwives at a time and each of us would do between eight and fourteen deliveries every 24-hour shift. So, we were doing, we were just delivering babies like crazy there. And we had excellent statistics. So that was a wonderful, wonderful job. I got �so much experience there, but then we, um...After a couple, after about, I think I was there about three, more than three years and um, they wanted somebody, they got a bunch of money together to, um, have a prematurity prevention program. So, and they wanted somebody to do that. And I said, I'll do it. Sure, I'll be happy to do it. I've never, I'd never done anything like that in my life, but… So, I developed this program, which was really fun. I had lots of money, which was great. I got to hire my own staff. So, I hired a secretary and I think five nurses and we did, um, we took care of every woman who was at risk for having a premature delivery. So, moms with twins and triplets, people who'd had a, uh, a previous preterm delivery, there were all kinds of risks. We would do a risk assessment on every woman who came to that Kaiser. And then when they were high risk, we would, we would have them in the program and then we would do a whole educational part for them and we would follow them through their pregnancies. And then we had the highest risk women, I decided would benefit from midwifery care because, you know, the doctors go in, they do an appointment, it's like five, three to five minutes maybe, but midwives would spend like twenty minutes with the patients. So, you'd do all this education and all kinds of stuff. And these women really needed a lot of education to take care of themselves so they wouldn't have a preterm baby. So, um, so I talked to the head of our department who was this wonderful man and he... we set up this program where the nurse midwives did, I think we would do like three prenatal visits and then the doctor would do one visit and then we do three visits, he'd do one visit. So, then I had my five nurses and my secretary and then I added on midwives for this, for this clinic where we would actually take care of these very high-risk women. I had always felt like midwifery care, low-risk women would be fine because they're low-risk and babies come out really well. You know, they know how to come out. But women who are high-risk need more care and more intention. And by going to a nurse midwife they would get more care and more attention. And so, I always had that kind of philosophy that nurse midwifery care would be really good for high-risk women and as long as the midwives were in consultation with a physician. So, we would have weekly meetings where we'd go through all of our patients and talk about care plans for each one and that sort of thing. But it was a wonderful program. I loved doing that. And I did it for one year and then my husband died, suddenly and unexpectedly. And here I was out in Los Angeles, with four children and no family, and so, I did leave after the one year. It was, it was tough to leave, but I just couldn't do it by myself with all the kids and no family nearby. That, that program crashed and burned for me because I couldn't, couldn't stay and really do anything about it after that. CB [29:48]: Yeah. Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but did you continue working after that or was that...? DW [29:56]: Oh, no, yes, I did. He died of mesothelioma, which is what you get from �asbestos exposure. Even though he was a college professor, so we don't really know how he got exposed. But anyway, he died very quickly. And, um, so then I moved back east with the children to a small town in northern New York State near Albany, actually not far from Skidmore, Cambridge, New York. I don't know if you know where that is. It's not too far from you. It's about an hour, uh, east and just, let's see, where is it? Cambridge, New York. So, it's just east and north of you, I think. CB [30:32]: Yeah, I've definitely heard of it. DW [30:34]: Yeah. So, we moved there. I moved there, because there was a, a little, um, it was a small, it was a small town, had its own hospital and um, there was a doctor with one midwife and they wanted to add another midwife. So, I decided to move there and take that job. And it was a lovely, lovely place to have a baby. Um, once again the midwife did most of the deliveries, the two of us. And um, it was just this country hospital and so you knew the whole family, you know, it was a small town so you'd get to know the whole family. And um, it was, it was wonderful and it wasn't so busy. Obviously, I wasn't doing 14 deliveries every day. I just would do, uh, you know, maybe three or four deliveries a week. And it was just, it was a lovely practice with an older OB-GYN who was wonderful, who supported midwifery and I loved that. It was the perfect job for me for recovering from the death of my husband. And then I did meet another man and who, um, who was the financial aid director actually at Williams College, which is where Sarah, the ones who teaches at Skidmore, and my son both went to Williams College. And so, I met this guy who was the financial aid director and we fell in love and got married. So, he's my husband now. We're married now. Been married since '94 or '95, I guess, yeah, '95. CB [32:10]: That's nice to hear. DW [32:14]: And that was... and then, that was kind of my last, yeah, that was my last midwifery job that I had. Um, after that, after, well he's older, so we, he was ready for me to retire. So, I tried to retire, I'd try. I'd always try and retire and then I'd go back to work because I missed it so much. But anyway, one time I tried to retire and then I went back to teaching nursing and I, we moved to Cape Cod when he retired. So, um, I taught at University of Massachusetts. I commuted and taught nursing there for quite a few years and then we moved here to the south, and I have not worked again now since we moved here. I just decided, I just started volunteering though for the, oh to accompany women who've been sexually assaulted to the hospital. I'm volunteering for the sexual assault center here, but I'm not doing anymore midwifery. I'm kind of, I think I'm kind of done. CB [33:16]: Yeah. �DW [33:17]: I'm 70 now, so. CB [33:19]: Yeah, it sounds like you've done a lot. DW [33:21]: I don't really want to jump out of bed at three in the morning anymore. That was… I did that for a lot of years, that was enough. So, I don't know what else. What have I forgotten? CB [33:31]: No all good. I was just going to move on. So, your daughter teaches at Skidmore now. How... was that inspired by you having attended Skidmore? DW [33:47]: My daughter teaches at Skidmore, was that inspired by me attending Skidmore? No, Sarah went to Williams College actually. She's an artist and she was in New Jersey and it was just a job opening at Skidmore and she interviewed for it and she got it. But it was so totally ironic for me because I had these three different phases of my life of being near Skidmore and Saratoga Springs because I was a student there and then when we lived in Cambridge, New York, we used to go to Saratoga to do our Christmas shopping and stuff. And so, it was like a totally different place for me than when I'd been a student. And then... now Sarah's teaching there, so now we go and I see my grandchildren and stuff, so it's just really weird to me that I've had these contacts with Saratoga and Skidmore all these years on and off and on and off, because I really have not kept up at all with my... I mean I keep up with a couple of classmates on Facebook, but I've not... I never really went back to Skidmore. I never really went to reunions. I just didn't stay in touch with it very much. I've gotten more in touch with it now since Sarah has been there for a few years. So now I was going to go to my last reunion, but then something came up. I wasn't able to, but um, so I've never been to a reunion, but I think I will go now. Um, now that I'm back in touch with it a little bit, but it was just never, I just didn't, it just wasn't the kind of thing I did. CB [35:19]: Yeah. DW [35:20]: I kind of was moving forward, not backwards. I don't know if I answered your question. Oh, so Sarah, no, she's just teaching there because she's teaching there, but she loves that I went there. I mean she loves that. She's more excited about it than I am, I think. She just loves that I went to Skidmore and that now she's there. And she's got a 15year-old and a nine-year-old. So, um, yeah. So, we go up a lot and see them. And in the summer we always go for, um, about a month we'll go up and get a little, uh, house on a lake nearby, near Sarah and will, uh, spend a month there so we can spend time with our �grandchildren. And we go to the races and Skidmore and Saratoga and all that kind of stuff. It's fun. CB [36:06]: Yeah, it sounds great. DW [36:07]: I'm going back and she lives right in town, right on East Avenue. Right in, right in the downtown area. Yeah. CB [36:19]: Yeah, so the Nursing program at Skidmore closed. Do you remember that happening? Did you have any feelings, strong feelings about that? DW [36:30]: You know, I didn't have strong feelings about it because I was so detached from Skidmore. Once I went out to California, I was kind of, you know, the first time after getting married I was kind of gone. I didn't really, um... Oh, that's the part I left out for you. I went to, right after college I went to California. We lived there for six years. Then we moved to Athens, Georgia, and that's where all that lawsuit stuff happened. That's why I got involved in the lawsuit. Anyway, there was that transition. So, we went from California to Athens, Georgia, and then to Los Angeles. So, we had a couple of California trips. Um, anyway, um, I heard about it. I'm sure I heard about it within a year or so after it closing. Um, but I don't, do you know what year it was that it closed? I don't remember. CB [37:25]: Um, I don't remember right off the top of my head. DW [37:28]: That's okay. I think it's sad because it was such a unique program. I don't think there's another program like it anywhere in the country. And it was such a unique program and such a good program and, I don't know, what it was about it, it was just very special. Um, so I think it was sad, but I also know it was probably tremendously expensive to just for this small group of women, they had a whole faculty, a whole building. I, you know, I mean, I... in New York City, in Manhattan. So yeah, that, that must have cost a fortune to run that program and to keep it. Oh, you know, one of the ironies is that Skidmore... at the very, very beginning of the Skidmore Nursing program, I don't know how I know this, but I, but I do know it, they used to use Mary McClellan Hospital, which is in Cambridge, New York, which is the hospital that I worked in when I came back from California after my husband died. So, Mary McClellan Hospital has a whole history with Skidmore as well. And so, it's so funny that you know, your life just goes ’round and ’round. But here I was a graduate of Skidmore and I was working in the hospital that Skidmore used years and years and years before that as a clinical placement for nursing students. It's just interesting. �CB [38:49]: Yeah. DW [38:51]: Kind of an irony. CB [38:55]: So that is pretty much all I have for specific questions. Are there anything, if there's anything else you would like to share, any other memories that stand out from your Skidmore experience or, um, or after that your Skidmore experience had impacted, that you would like to share? DW [39:14]: There was one funny thing that I was going to tell you about and I forgot about it. When we were in New York City, when I was telling you all the things had changed so much over those two years… The first year we were in there, when we were this, in this old building, we had this elevator. Oh, this building was so creepy. Anyway, we lived in this old building and um, we were not allowed to have boys in our dorm, but of course we did have boys in our dorm. So, we would have to sneak them in. There was like a lady at the desk downstairs who would check to see who was coming in. So, we would have all these ruses where we would make up these elaborate plans to distract her or, you know, even burn something on the stove in the kitchen, so she'd have to go in the kitchen, and then we'd sneak all these guys in at once. It was like this. And then we'd have to sneak them out again. And one time, I remember one of my friend's husbands, now, well he became her husband, but her boyfriend had, we had him dress up in a dress and a wig to get out of the building. It was, and they realized of course that this was a man because he was huge. So, somebody was chasing him up 1st Avenue… it was the funniest... it was just, there were so many little memorable things like that. It was just really quite an experience you can imagine. CB [40:33]: Yeah. DW [40:35]: And we'd have, and we would have the, we had a little roof next door that kind of attached to our building. So, if we had boys there that we could, if we couldn't get them out in a day or so, we would let them sit down on the roof so they could get some fresh air. It was just really bizarre. I mean it was just crazy. Anyway, I'm glad things have changed so you don't have to do those kinds of things anymore. Although they were kind of funny and fun to do. CB [41:03]: Great. Well thanks a lot for sharing. DW [41:06]: Yeah, thanks Charlotte. So, tell me a little about yourself. I'm going to turn off my thing. �CB [41:10]: Yes, I'm going to turn off as well. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Deborah Wick '71 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Charlotte Bracklo '19 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 41:16 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Deborah Wick '71 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore's Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/cffd8a6110a3a186a632187c725abc4b.png 0b165f041b879387c8681b66057f75d8 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/020ae8bac6d26778a07d36ee330a0c53.m4a 9c184c060c92ea24bb948b0e0107e546 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/49e6846aed03698dab97fc030df32dff.pdf c414c911b75a64f05f43baf2c1e308ed PDF Text Text Interview with Dana Carr '81 by Matthew Chipkin '20, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. NOTE: Below is an edited version of the audio interview, some information and details have been reordered, removed and grammar corrected by the interviewee for ease of reading. DR. DANA CARR [0:00:00]: Ok, so it’s going. MATTHEW CHIPKIN [0:00:03]: My first question I have is, were you in school prior to deciding to attend Skidmore's Nursing Program? DC [0:00:18]: First, I would like to thank you for asking me to participate in this opportunity and I would like to provide a bit of personal background. I was born in New York City and grew up in the Bronx. I attended public school and after graduating from high school I decided I would pursue nursing as my career choice. I attended Hostos Community College—a local college in the Bronx. I graduated in June 1975 with an Associate Degree in Nursing, took my licensing exam, and landed a job as an RN at Montefiore Hospital and Medical Center. Shortly thereafter, I started taking liberal arts courses at Lehman College, which is part of the City University education system. In my mind I understood that I would need to obtain a bachelor’s degree but at the time it was just a thought. However, while at Montefiore I maintained my contact with Patricia Sullivan, the lead nurse recruiter. As we discussed my career goals and required continued education, she presented Skidmore’s program as an option for continuing my education. Of course, the rest is history! MC [0:03:05]: What was your general sense of the program before you started? Tell me about your introduction to program - when exactly you were there, what your classes were like... anything of that sort. DC [0:03:26]: This is an interesting question because I had to do a bit of leg work. I had no knowledge of Skidmore other than what Patricia Sullivan shared with me. But that said, I liked the idea of the independent nature of the program. It wasn’t just about completing nursing credits, I had to complete liberal arts credits as well. When I graduated with my associate’s degree, I only had 75 credits. To qualify for my bachelor’s, I had to complete liberal arts credits as well; this would be challenging because of Skidmore’s upstate location. Also, just because I wanted to go to Skidmore did not mean my acceptance was automatic. I had to apply for admission, just like anyone else but that said, I had lots of encouragement/support from Skidmore. It felt nice to be “wanted.” I was allowed to take many of my liberal arts courses, including sciences, nutrition, and philosophy classes at local senior colleges. I really wish I could remember the names of some of my professors who were powerful and supportive mentors, but it was so long ago. I was working at Montefiore full-time, I was raising a family and I desperately �wanted to earn my bachelor’s! It was great that the Skidmore nursing program was in New York City – East 38th Street to be exact. I started the program in 1977 and completed by bachelor’s degree in 1981. My nursing classes were interesting because even though I was already a registered nurse working in a hospital setting, there was much for me to learn. We focused on Nursing Ethics, Community and Public Health, and other areas that were not part of my associate degree curriculum. The clinical training process required me to attend hospitals. I think my schoolmates appreciated having a “real nurse” in class. They asked many questions about my work experiences. When you go back to school, you're a little bit nervous. You hope you are going to meet the criteria for acceptance. You want to be successful. Personally, I felt pressured because the nursing profession was changing, and it was important for me to obtain my bachelor's degree and function as an independent professional. In many respects, Skidmore’s program was in the vanguard. At that time, there were no City University nursing programs that encouraged independent study. I felt regarded for my experience as a licensed professional and I was encouraged to be a leader to my student nurse colleagues; I was respected. I'll tell you one of the things that I really loved was the programs leadership -- the professors I worked with were wonderful caring mentors who showed me that I could aspire to be something more – a nurse leader. Another valuable thing I learned was the difference between an associate degree nursing education and a bachelor's degree nursing education; the value of an advanced degree. I hope that answers your question. MC [0:08:50]: Yes, this honestly is what we're trying to get out of these interviews. How would you compare the campus in Saratoga to the campus in New York City to one another? DC [0:09:07]: The campus in Saratoga was rural and not very accessible. When you go “away” to school you expect to complete your education on campus or locally. Yet, being able to complete my coursework in New York City was a bonus. Perhaps there was the recognition that the trauma center in New York City was the best locations for the clinical experience. Although I was actively employed at Montefiore Hospital, I had to take time off for clinicals. I went to hospitals such as Bellevue, New York University, and Beth Israel. These were wonderful experiences because they provided opportunities to learn about the mission, vision, and values of these organizations as well as their clinical practices and culture. These clinical opportunities opened my eyes to entirely different practice models because, as previously mentioned, I grew up in the Bronx, was educated in the Bronx, and I worked in the Bronx. Having clinicals in Manhattan exposed me to so much more than I could have expected. MC [0:11:53]: Mmm. Awesome. Can you talk more about your experiences after you completed the Skidmore Nursing Program? DC [0:12:08]: I graduated from the nursing program in 1981. I must say that having that �bachelor's degree in nursing, created immediate work opportunities for me. I was able to climb a career ladder at my hospital, Montefiore. I was a head nurse on a medical surgical unit and I expanded my practice into community health. I also enrolled in graduate school. Skidmore opened another door for me and made me think more about career advancement. I advanced professionally, eventually going into home health care where I stayed for many years. I worked as a visiting nurse. I recruited nurses for the Montefiore home care agency which is part of Montefiore Hospital. I also pursued my graduate education in Gerontology attending the College of New Rochelle. I finished in 1986 with a Masters in Gerontology which allowed me to fast track into Nursing Administration. I became a nursing supervisor and eventually an assistant director and a director of nursing. If I look back and ask myself where did that all start, I have a ready answer Skidmore - and I must say, when people ask me where I got my various degrees and when I mentioned, I received my nursing degree from Skidmore College, they look at me and they're like, ‘oh, wow.’ Skidmore has a great reputation as a stellar educational institution. I'm sure Matt, you know that as you've had that experience yourself. MC [0:14:54]: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. When did you learn about UWW closing? DC [0:15:08]: I am not exactly sure when UWW closed, I believe it was sometime in 1985—you will have to check that date, but I know that its closure was/is a loss. Especially since today so many schools have programs that are modeled after independent learning. MC [0:16:24]: What is your contact with Skidmore like now? DC [0:16:52]: I am on the mailing lists and receive ongoing email updates. A few years ago, pre COVID, I was invited to come up for a meet-and-greet. It was great fun seeing young people who are still uncertain and yet very inquisitive about growth opportunities. MC [0:20:01]: This is all awesome. Is there anything else, any closing remark you’d like to make? DC [0:20:17]: I would like to say I considered it an honor to be asked to participate in this interview. I am often contacted by students from various programs, but your contacting me was especially meaningful. I credit Skidmore for getting me where I am today. As I shared previously, in 2013, I earned a doctorate in public health/health policy from the New York Medical College. That was a career affirming achievement. With every application I have ever completed for work, school or other events, Skidmore has always been on the list. For me being a registered professional nurse is a wonderful personal and professional accomplishment. I will never forget the role that UWW placed in my accomplishments. Even though the program no longer physically exists, it continues to exist in my heart and through all on my accomplishments. That said, I am pleased have had this conversation with you Matt. I hope you have found it of value. �MC [0:24:09]: Thank you, Dr. Carr. Yeah, I appreciate it so much. Not everyone answered the first email, so I am glad you were so enthusiastic about this, seriously. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dana Carr '81 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Matthew Chipkin '20 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 24:37 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Dana Carr, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dana Carr '81 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore's Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/278d386d461b81805e667082cb6f789b.jpeg 993407140f6bd47edd551a5d9f0df259 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0beefc5eec81f5429e460fc39a956312.jpeg c3448d48f71c143a3f4313f5c9dac8b2 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/06e36373f0ebaf40ec675561fcaca649.m4a b8c52b93b0ceea6beff976b44dec4dda https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/7a6968b62671a43a2af08dd2e41e47e0.pdf 20530e46802ece5c5ebab5ccc7a0a15b PDF Text Text Interview with Elizabeth (Liz) Waxman '83 by Xiaoxuan (Shelley) Tan '20, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. SHELLEY TAN: So, hi Liz, where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore's nursing program? LIZ WAXMAN: Hi Shelley. I was, I was born and bred a New Yorker. So, at the time I decided to go to Skidmore College and its nursing program, I was in high school in Manhattan. ST: So, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? LW: Well, um, my family, as the question is, did my, did or does my family have a background in medicine or nursing? Um, the simplest answer to that is no. My father owned a retail business. Ironically, my late uncle was a physician and my two older siblings are physicians. Um, I had an interest in nursing because I knew I wanted to be in the healthcare field. ST: So, what was your educational background before you joined the program--the nursing program? LW: Well, my background was, uh, a high school graduate. I applied to Skidmore College and so my background was the mandatory freshman year courses for the nursing program. Um, and I passed all of those courses and was entered into the nursing program. ST: So, what drew you to the program? It's actually, you just go on this, the background thing. You can probably say a little bit more about that? LW: Okay. A very simply, uh, the training in New York drew me to the program. That was probably the, the key to my applying to Skidmore in all honesty. Um, it's not that I went home every week because I certainly didn't, I had a lot of studying to do, but it was nice being close to my family. I was able to see my newborn nephew more frequently than if I had gone anywhere else. And when I look back at my nursing training from Skidmore, it’s helped me every step of the way in my career. So, without a doubt it was the, uh, Manhattan nursing program that drew me to the school. ST: Yeah. So what parts of the program as a whole? LW: I liked the clinical rotations, especially in the medical surgical rotations. Um, and I felt because it was such a small program, I felt close to the instructors. I didn't feel that I was one of a hundred students in the large lecture hall. Um, and I also felt close to my classmates. Um, so it was a very nice feeling of, um, I don't want to say family, but it was just a very nice feeling, and we felt we were very well educated to our career is. Um, so I would say the clinical rotations were great. And the instructors, the instructors were great as well. �ST: Okay. So, what was your sense of the program before you started and also, if you can do it like, after you get into the program? LW: What was my sense with the program before I got in and after I finished? Um, my sense of the program before I was accepted to it was, I think I felt intimidated by the program because we, the nursing majors had a set required. Ah, um, the set, um, set of the required courses, um, so the requisites, that's the word I want, uh, freshman year. And I did well. I obviously I did well enough to get into the program. I didn't have to reapply. Um, when I finished the program, I had a sheer sense of accomplishment. It was not an easy program. There was a ton of work to do. Um, I probably saw less of my family when I was in the Manhattan campus than when I was in the Saratoga Springs campus. ST: So, what's the challenging part do you think of those? LW: Umm. I guess the challenge was learning the clinical skills and applying them in the hospital. Um, it's one thing to learn. How to take a blood pressure, how to give a shot in a classroom. It's another thing to have to give an injection to a child in the pediatric rotation and not have your hand shake. ST: So, what do you think you liked the most? So, you already talked about, it’s the Manhattan part. What's like the structure of it, like, what classes you'd take and you liked the most? LW: Well, in, in the nursing program, um, it was, the classes were really structured around the clinical semesters. So, you just started reading the chapters. I probably, with all the respect to the psych instructors, um, psych was my least favorite part of the nursing program and that has nothing to do with the program, and this has nothing to do with the instructors. I just was not good at it and it was a difficult and still is a difficult area for me in nursing. Um, I think I liked, uh, the statistics course we had to take, we certainly had an excellent instructor, Gloria Leventhal. Um, she made statistics very easy. ST: Okay. So, that's the part on the campus, right? LW: Um Manhattan, yeah. ST: The Manhattan campus. So, what do you have on, like, the Saratoga part, compared to the Manhattan part? LW: So, what was my favorite part of the Saratoga campus or the, uh, what was my favorite class? What is the question that I'm not answering? ST: Uh, it just like how you compare the two parts. There's not really need to be favorite or least favorite. LW: Well, the Saratoga campus is, just an extraordinarily beautiful campus and it's very nice, uh, together, uh, Case Green and Case Center. Um, it's always nice to see the leaves changing. I think what I liked about the Saratoga campus was being able to go outside �and outdoors, and sit with, sit with friends, um, and enjoy just some of the weekend, um, festivities they had up at the school. Um, we had those in Manhattan, but they were different, it was just a lot different. And, um, I think I had, I missed my two very good friends who were up at the Saratoga campus for all four years. I did miss them when I was in New York. ST: So, what's your path after Skidmore? Like how do you go on, on your career? LW: Well, my path after Skidmore was not a path I thought I would take, but after Skidmore I went to Israel for a year and worked as... on the program. It was kind of like the Israeli Peace Corps. So, I was able to work as a nurse in Israel. Um, I had a stipend and a room and board. Um, and that was really a great experience. And when I came back to the, to the U.S., to New York, um, it was just the start of the first nursing shortage and when I was applying to hospitals, a hospital that hired me was Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and never in a million years did I think I would be in oncology nursing and never in a million years did I think I would stay in oncology nursing but that is my career. ST: So, you are still doing like, that, right now? Okay, so would you like elaborate a bit on the Israel part? LW: Um, I, well first I have to say that after graduation I did not immediately pass my nursing boards for New York state so I couldn't get licensed. And so, I was able to get licensed as a lower, in a lower level health care field and do some home health. And that allowed me a little bit of income and a lot of time to study. So, when the nursing board was given again, I passed it. And, at that time I still wasn't sure where or what I wanted to do, and my sister knew of a nurse at her hospital who had been on this program and my sister said, ‘Why don't you talk to her?’ And I spoke to this nurse and she told me about this volunteer program, and I really had a good experience. I got a bird's eye view of some of, uh, the Israeli healthcare system, especially their health clinics. I can speak some Hebrew and the nurse I worked with in Israel was fluent in English, so she translated for me, but I was able to get along, to negotiate and make my way through Israel. Um, there were other people on the program, there were two other nurses and I'm actually in touch with one of my friends from Israel to this day. We're actually connected on Facebook, but, um, it, it was kind of, I'd have to say going to Israel and spending a year in Israel was my time to grow up. My parents weren't around the corner. I had to learn to make a stipend last a month, and with that stipend it was buying groceries and washing clothes and, you know, being an adult basically. Great experience. ST: Um, where do you work now? Just like, elaborated? LW: Well, right now I work at MD Anderson Cancer Center here in Houston. Uh, I'm a nurse practitioner, and my field is lung cancer. So, I see, uh, all of my patients have lung cancer at this time. Um, I do physical exams, I manage side effects of treatment, um, I do a lot of, um, edu... patient education in terms of side effects of treatment and, and again, how to manage them. Um, I work with a one, physician three days a week in clinic. �ST: Okay. So how do you integrate it, what you learned at Skidmore into that career and also outside of Skidmore? LW: Um, well it's the clinical skills that I learnt at Skidmore that have stayed with me and um, I would say I'm a good clinician in terms of examining a patient, um, and seeing the whole person, not just the disease aspect or what they're dealing with. And um, I would also say that, um, I have pretty good, um, psych... psychiatrics, I'm not an expert at it, but there are certain things I can detect and um, and help get the patients the help they need. ST: Okay. So, because you are graduated in the ending, like in ’83? LW: Yes. ST: So, it's really close to the end of the program. So, could you tell me something about how you feel about it or how's the situation? LW: Okay. Um, so I graduated in ’83 and two years later in 1985, the program closed and that was the final graduating class. I found out about it, I think we had a student led meeting, no faculty. And, uh, the student body president, or the nursing student body president told us the news. We tried so hard to save that program, it's not funny. I will be honest and maybe the college, will edit this out, but the whole process of the closing of the program has left and still leaves an extremely bad taste, for me. Um, as far, from my perspective, the board of Trustees decided to close the program and it was a done deal. Um, the student body from Saratoga was fast to react to this news and very vocal in their opposition to it. The entire Skidmore faculty was slow, slow to respond. Um, now that's my take on it. Some of my colleagues and friends from Skidmore may say differently. Um, it, it was going to close no matter what we did, and I wish somebody had had the guts to just say, it's closing, period, end of discussion. ST: Okay. So, because they're like reopen it in some way that they are sending students to work in the New York, but it's not really like reopening the whole department. So how do you feel about that? LW: Well, I've had a long time to think about it and at first, I thought, oh this is a nice way of still having nursing. But in reality, and this is, this is lost. When you were a graduate of the Skidmore College nursing program, that was a brand and every hospital you applied to, knew you had good training and good clinical skills because you would not have been in that program otherwise. The program they have now, it's great that the students get an excellent education from Skidmore, but those who are interested in nursing, go to NYU, and so they're an NYU nurse. And they're very good nurses, but they're not Skidmore nurses and I really don't think Skidmore should hang their hat on this program that's fasttracking students to another college…[phone rings]. Sorry… LW: So, as we were saying, so they're an NYU nurse and those are very good nurses as well, but the brand of a Skidmore nurse is gone and that's not going to be replaced. And I can't figure out how anybody is going to, want to go to a school, graduate from that school, �and then go to another school to be a nurse. I, I, it's like I, the, the finer details of the program need to be explained to me because I don't know if the students who come into this very broad science major and decide to go to the nursing, do they only go the Skidmore for two years and then they go to NYU? Or did they go to Skidmore for four years, graduate with a bachelor's of science, or whatever their degree is and then go to NYU and only have two years of their nursing program? I don't quite understand how that works. Um, and I, I don't know, I mean I understand who on the Board of Trustees came up with this, but it's, it's just not the same. ST: Okay. So, in that sense, how do you think a full Skidmore program helped you? Like how's that different, because you think now this is gone. What do you think they lost in that sense? LW: I just think they los... I, first of all, I think if they could, if the Board of Trustees or the faculty or the administration could have held out just a little longer, there was a resurgence in nursing applications to nursing schools and it would have been NYU and Skidmore as the two New York, top New York nursing programs. Um, I do know that when the nursing program closed, the building on 38th Street was sold. I know that for a fact and nobody has ever told me otherwise, but I'm sure the money, the sale of that building helped the school financially and I can’t argue with finances. ST: Okay. So, because it's very different that Skidmore is a liberal arts college, and in my idea, it is like nursing program at liberal arts college is rare. So, how do you think Skidmore as a liberal arts college having a nursing program, how, how did it help the nursing program and help the school... LW: Well, I think nursing at a liberal arts college makes sense because you have a well-rounded student who just didn't do a biology and chemistry classes. Uh, I mean my senior year I took whatever course I wanted, including a phys-ed class, early, um, elementary education class, um, um, fiction I took, you know, I had a broader education because I was at a liberal arts college. I think the nursing program could have helped the school because would, you would have had maybe an influx of students, um, going into that specific training. I mean, you have pre-med students at Skidmore, is, is being, is going for a career in medicine or neuroscience contradictory to a liberal arts college? No. And you have the, you know, you have UCLA with the School of Nursing. UCLA is a liberal arts school, is that contradictory? I don’t think so. ST: Okay. So, how do you think the liberal arts college in that sense, like, broader your ideas about nursing or how you work as a nurse? LW: The liberal arts part of my education allows me in my current, in what I do today to see things with different perspectives. Um, and I mean maybe because I took elementary education, but I can explain very difficult things very easily to patients and families. So, I think my liberal arts college on a day to day basis impacts what I do at MD Anderson. ST: I think we can go onto this just like summarize a few things like…bullet points... �LW: I mean I, Skidmore College was a perfect fit for me and I owe my introduction to Skidmore, to, uh, the headmaster of my, of my high school. He's now deceased, the late Anthony of Caperio the third, because he thought Skidmore would be a good fit for me. It was a small school. I wouldn't get lost in the thousands of students that larger school has. I would get, not necessarily a one on one education, but the faculty to student ratio would be much smaller. And I did feel for the most part, uh, excluding the nursing instructors, that the instructors from the main campus, maybe there are two exceptions, knew who I was. Um. I had the, I had a very good education from Skidmore. I do support the school. I think I'm one of the few nursing majors from the 1980s who supports the school, although I do not have that as on the, I don't have that information as accurate, so, this is something to edit out. Um, but there were a lot of hard feelings and to be honest with you, at reunion when I see some of my nursing friends, we still talk about it and it still hurts. Um, but I love going to Saratoga and I love the campus and I'm glad other students can benefit from the education provided by Skidmore. ST: Okay. So, would you just give like several words for us to use about how you feel about generally your nursing career and your nursing education? LW: I owe my nursing career to Skidmore College. ST: Okay. LW: Okay. Um, just a few more comments. Um, this came up at Reunion Weekend 2018 when one of the other nursing alumni said in Skidmore Scope, there is hardly ever any items about what Skidmore nurses have accomplished. And it seems to me that since the closing of the program in 1985, uh, Skidmore rather intentionally or unintentionally, has just about completely erased the history of the nursing program, uh, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Now I do support the school and I do send in when they ask me for alumni giving, uh, it's my understanding that in CIS there's supposed to be some type of wall or history of the nursing program, and I hope to high heaven the promise is kept. I know President Glotzbach is leaving in 2020. So, I hope that nursing tribute stays in CIS because quite frankly, if it doesn't, I and a few other nurses whose do support the school will probably stop supporting the school completely. [End] � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Xiaoxuan "Shelley" Tan '20 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Elizabeth "Liz" Waxman '83 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 25:56 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Liz Waxman, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Elizabeth "Liz" Waxman '83 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 6, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0c3fe26efc84d06b4989210e1fc4240e.jpg 54f7444211f786970c89cb6974e167ad https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/af11e1bd8624588c2a0b075b810eee82.m4a 1a3b865a82b08dfb759bee892643e8a7 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d04d2b784bba37366a89d3000764bffd.pdf ca3e1501c04834fbb36171e7020a9344 PDF Text Text Interview with Rothlyn Zahourek '65 by Stephen Ribe '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. NOTE: Below is an edited version of the audio interview, some information and details have been added to provide context by the interviewee for ease of reading and further information. STEPHEN RIBE [00:00:00]: OK, so the first question is - Where were you from before you decided to attend Skidmore’s nursing program. ROTHLYN ZAHOUREK [00:00:07]: OK. I was born and raised in upstate New York, Rochester, and I was in high school before I applied to Skidmore and decided to apply to Skidmore because I was a little ambivalent about whether I could do nursing or to do something like English or science. And I felt they had a good enough English program and a good enough science program that if I decided to change my mind, I could do that. And they gave me a very nice financial aid package which I desperately needed SR [00:00:54]: OK, is that... Oh, maybe we should have a system where you say a word when you indicate that you're done. RZ [00:01:02]: OK. I'm done. SR [00:01:05]: You could just say I'm done actually RZ [00:01:06]: I'm done. SR [00:01:07]: Yeah. That's perfect. It's interesting, I'm actually, my brother went to the University of Rochester. RZ [00:01:14]: Really? SR [00:01:15]: Yeah, so I went up there. The Kodak plant doesn't look too active anymore. RZ [00:01:19]: No [laughing], it isn’t. SR [00:01:22]: He uh, he pointed it out to us, it was, you know, it was there, but it turns out the university is the main player in Rochester now. RZ [00:01:32]: It certainly seems to be since I’ve been back to Rochester. SR [00:01:39]: Yeah, OK great. And so, the second question is, did your family have a background in the field of medicine or nursing? RZ [00:01:49]: No they did not. Done, I’m done. SR [00:01:56]: Oh, cool, cool. �RZ [00:01:57]: Sorry! [laughing] SR [00:01:59]: Yeah, no, no, that's good. And what was your educational background before you joined this program or your work history too? RZ [00:02:08]: I was, I was just finishing high school so I hadn’t really... The only thing I had done was worked at a department store or worked at an office over summers, and that was essentially it. I had done some candy striping, working as a volunteer in the hospital and delivering flowers and stuff like that. Done. SR [00:02:36]: Oh ok, cool. Did your experience volunteering in the hospital affect your decision to try nursing or go into nursing? RZ [00:02:44]: I think probably it did. I'd wanted to be a nurse since I was 4 years old. So it just, I mean, I read every nursing book I could get my hands on in terms of all the novels that were about nurses and so I really wanted to work at a hospital and I think it was helpful in just giving me a taste of what it was like to work in a hospital. I'd been sick as a kid so I’d spent a lot of time as a patient in the hospital. And that was not a very happy experience. SR [00:03:21]: Ok. What was your sense of the program before you started? RZ [00:03:26]: I really didn't have much of a sense of the program before I started. Again, I was 17 years old and I knew that the nursing program was well thought of. I had no idea how astoundingly different and phenomenal it was until much later and I knew they had solid liberal arts, which I was also interested in. Done. SR [00:03:54]: OK. Tell me about what it was like in the program. What was the structure of the program and what kind of classes did you take? RZ [00:04:04]: The structure was... I graduated in 1965. So, I entered in ‘61. The structure was very rigorous. Freshman year was all sciences plus English, composition, which all freshman had to take. And you had to have a PE requirement, but we did anatomy and physiology, chemistry, microbiology and one of the social sciences I think, one semester was sociology and one semester was psychology. And I have to tell you we were the busiest freshmen. All of our classmates were able to play bridge and you know, go out on the weekends. And we were always in labs and we were always studying. So, the program was known to be the hardest program at Skidmore, particularly for freshmen coming in. Then, do you want the rest, do you want me to tell you the rest of the program? SR [00:05:08]: Yeah, that would be great. RZ [00:05:10]: OK. The first summer we went to New York City and we were given white �uniforms, white stockings, and white shoes, and a cap no less; a white cap. And it was our first clinical experience and we had to, we were put on a ward with an instructor in groups of I guess six or seven and we were expected to begin to communicate with patients and do odd jobs. We were guided by the nurses and we would have a conference in which, we made jokes about. A faculty member and a psychiatrist from a psychoanalytic institute came and we had a "feelings group" that we actually all made jokes about because they constantly asked us what we did during our shift on the wards and we would tell them and they would say, ‘well how did you feel about that?’ And so, it became a big joke. ‘How did you feel about what you experienced?’ Although in retrospect that was really very important and very useful because many of us ended up in psychiatry [laughing] as time went on. So, that was the first summer and it was my first time in New York City. It was the first time for a lot of the women in the class to be in New York City. We lived on two floors in a dorm for medical students right across the street from Bellevue Hospital psychiatric. So, it was a very big experience, social experience and educational experience. For, you know, we were all 18- or 19-year-old. So, then the next two years were clinical years in New York and we did what then were considered to be pretty standard rotations. We did medical surgical nursing. We did all the pediatrics and then they had a very unique thing for our junior year -- I think junior year. I'm pretty sure Junior year, we had psych and public health together in the same week. So, we did two days of clinical psych and two days of public health psych and one day of classes. So again, we did not have the usual college student schedule of you know, a few classes and a whole day off and a few more classes and a day off. We were busy all the time. RZ [00:08:11]: So then, that summer after junior year, we were actually free to work between sophomore and junior year. Many of us took the LPN licensing exam which I did and I worked that summer as an LPN at the University of Rochester Hospital Strong Memorial. And then junior year we finished those rotations (psych and public health) and for many of us those rotations really resonated with us. And I'm not sure how many in our class ended up in psych mental health, but I would say at least a third of our class ended up in psych mental health as a result of the experience which was very positive. Which is also surprising because the psych nursing experience, it can be really upsetting for nursing students. It can be frightening. It can be confusing. People often start questioning their own mental health while they're in that experience so it's a difficult experience for young students. So, after that we had to be in New York for the summer between junior and senior year and in that summer we were able to do an independent study that we picked, and also we had an elective liberal arts class. It was actually really fun. One of the professors from the government department on campus came down once a week and we had a class on current events and that was great. We talked about plays, we actually went to a play as a group, we talked about politics, it was really very enriching that class. RZ [00:10:37]: We also had a seminar where we were talking about nursing issues and then the clinical, and my clinical elective was with a married couple’s group with a psychologist at the VA. And that was a really a very good experience. I felt very fortunate to be given that experience. And then senior year we went back to campus and I think this was the most unusual part of the program in that I know of no other program that had split �clinical and academics like Skidmore did. So we went back to campus and there we did all of our liberal arts electives and a senior nursing seminar with Agnes Gelinas who was the director of the program at that time. We were her last class. Interestingly enough, many of the liberal arts professors said they'd love to have nursing students in their classrooms because we were far more mature than the other students that they had in their classes. We'd experienced birth, we'd experienced death, we'd experienced patients with horrible issues, and chronic illness. Then out in the community in the depths of New York City visiting very impoverished areas. You know we were a very different group that came back to campus that had actually left campus freshman year. So we had electives and then we had this one seminar with Agnes Gelinas and it was really terrific. She essentially sent us on our way with all kinds of messages to be professional -- that we were professional and that we should always be a part of our professional organization, etc. I guess partially due to her influence when we graduated we refused to say the Florence Nightingale pledge. It's actually a wonderful pledge but it implies we thought, that you will do whatever a physician tells you to do. And this is 1965 and we decided we didn't want to say that. So, we wrote our own pledge and gave it and that pledge is on the wall in the science building. SR [00:13:28]: Oh OK. RZ [00:13:34]: So, done. That was a long one [laughing]. SR [00:13:35]: Yea, no that was great. OK, so that was good. That was really good. Yeah. Tons of detail. OK so then, the next question is more about your path after Skidmore. So, what was your path after Skidmore and where did you work? RZ [00:13:56]: OK. You have to realize at this point in my life now I'm now 75 years old, so I had a long wonderful career. Since Skidmore, I went directly into psych mental health nursing and my first job was as a staff nurse on a psychiatric unit in Denver, Colorado. University of Colorado Medical Center. And there I was fortunate enough to find a supervisor, another, an advanced practice nurse in psychiatry who really took me on as a mentee. She became a mentor for me and we ended up doing a married couple’s group with one of the residents, we had resident psychiatrists there. So, it was a wonderful experience and I really enjoyed working on the in-patient unit; at that time nurses were doing groups. Patients were there longer term, certainly than they are now. Now we have very short-term admissions. And Patients could be there for a month or six weeks sometimes even longer. So, you really could develop a relationship with patients. At any rate, she encouraged me to go to graduate school so the year after, I did a year of clinical staff nursing, I went to graduate school at the University of Colorado and got a masters in psych mental health nursing. Do you want me to keep talking about this? SR [00:15:48]: Yeah. That’d be great. RZ [00:15:50]: OK. So, after that I was in Colorado and Colorado at that time in the 60s, late 60s, ‘69 I think was the date that the nurse practitioner was essentially born, and that role was born at the University of Colorado. So advanced practice nursing really took off in �Colorado. So, when I finished my Master’s degree I was wanting to work as a clinical nurse specialist which is what the degree was. So, I got one of the last jobs available in Denver for advanced practice psych nurses at the time. I put it off because I was in the process of getting married and I was over-done with school and over-done with everything. So, I let things go and the last job available was a research job at Denver General Hospital in psychiatry. And so, I took that job thinking, boy I'm not really a researcher at all, but I will take it because it was in a community mental health center. And in that community mental health center, I was also responsible for seeing a case load of patients and doing consultation in the General Hospital as well and helping some research projects that were all already in process. RZ [00:17:34]: And that job really changed my life in many ways. One research project was on the loss of a newborn -- the grief in a mother and incidence of depression who loses a baby during labor and delivery. So, I was doing that at the same time Denver and Colorado was doing therapeutic abortions. The therapeutic abortion law had been expanded somewhat and so we were doing abortions on women. But the requirement was they would have to have two psychiatrists determine that carrying the child to term would damage their mental health. So, I became involved in that program as well and seeing many of those women and counseling them and working with them. So, the job was incredibly variable and stressful. While I was doing the research, I was also doing clinical work and consultation with the nursing staff. They were having a hard time with all of it. So, at the same time there were a group of us working as clinical specialists at Denver General in various capacities as several different community-based teams. And we kept saying, you know, ‘we're not being paid the same way that people with the same educational background are being paid and our job description really doesn't say what we're doing.’ Because again, we were a new role and it was a new role in health care. So, we got together and we worked with the Colorado Nursing Association and we ended up forming a unit, a bargaining unit, and ended up protesting, not only our pay, but our job description. Over time we ended up filing a lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court as a discrimination suit. So, and the end result was that it got thrown out. But that was a very exciting and educational experience in the need for political change and political activism when you’re in healthcare. So, at the same time we were also saying that we felt we could be in private practice seeing patients if we had a supervisor that was willing to do that, because we were already functioning pretty independently doing that in the mental health clinic. So, a group of us in psychiatry, pediatric nurse practitioners, and a geriatric nurse practitioner, decided to form one of the first private independent nurse-run practices in the country. And so, we did that and it functioned really well for three or four years and then the pediatric and the geriatric nurses felt that they were nervous about doing this full time and decided that they really couldn't keep doing it anymore. It turned out that we became a group of psych nurses and we ended up adding some social workers as well. We actually incorporated, had a little corporation, and it functioned for several years as a private practice psychotherapy group. That was really a very innovative unusual thing for nurses to be doing at that point in time and now nurses are in private practice and setting up private practice groups and what have you. It's not uncommon at all. RZ [00:21:40]: So, then I moved to New York because my husband at the time wanted to live in �New York, and I had some trouble finding a job. I finally found a job at Lehman College doing the clinical teaching for psych mental health nursing. I did that for a couple of years and then found a job at St. Vincent's Hospital in their alcoholism program. RZ [00:22:16]: And I had done consultation in Colorado in the general hospital and at the time I really, really enjoyed that role. As a mental health consultant you see patients who are having difficulty with breathing or with pain or family issues or the nurse is having difficulty with the patient whose behavior it is making them crazy. It was a very wonderful role. As a result of that, I’m going to divert a little bit because another thing that I became very involved in happened with one of those patients. She was my psychtherapy patient in the clinic at Denver General and I had worked with her for a couple of years; and she was a very difficult patient. She spent a lot of time in the emergency room with traumatic symptoms and she was very histrionic; the staff was always complaining about her. And one day I got a call from the ICU saying that she was there and that she'd been badly burned in a house fire. I went to see her; she was in a lot of pain and very distraught, not knowing what to do. And I remembered back to my OB experience as a nursing student at Skidmore and how I had learned some relaxation techniques being used in natural childbirth by a man named Grant Lee, Dick Reed, I think his name was, to provide relaxation during labor and delivery. So, I decided to try that with her and I did have a relationship with her that had started previously and she went to sleep. I was really surprised. And so, I started doing that with her regularly and my supervisor at the time, again I'm back in Denver, said 'you're doing hypnosis'. And I said, 'I'm not doing hypnosis that really kind of freaks me out!' So, it turns out I decided to learn more about hypnosis, and a social worker on the unit had always been interested in hypnosis herself. And so, we set up a program of doing hypnosis with burn patients and patients who had chronic pain or were having difficulty with other kinds of difficulties on the hospital unit. Later after I moved to New York, I had written and published a couple of papers on clinical hypnosis for nurses and done some teaching of hypnosis in workshops to nurses. When I went to New York and was working, I got a call from a publishing company asking if I would like to write a book on hypnosis for nurses. So, I ended up writing two books, one on relaxation and imagery and one on clinical hypnosis for nurses. RZ [00:26:04]: So, that was while I was in New York. And also, I was working in the alcoholism program at this point and learning a lot about alcoholism and treating alcoholic patients and their families and particularly the addicted alcoholic patients who had a mental illness. So, we developed a whole program that worked with what's called the 'dual diagnosed patient'. This was again in the 70s, let’s see, late 70s and early 80s. And at the same time was the AIDS outbreak and St. Vincent’s is in the heart of Greenwich Village where there are a lot of gay men and the AIDS epidemic was rampant. So, I treated many people who were substance abusing, depressed, sometimes psychotic who also were HIV positive or had frank AIDS. In the meantime, also, throughout my career I've been an active ANA (American Nurses Association) member particularly in specialty psych nursing groups. So, it's been, it's been very important in my career as a support group and a group to help nurture myself as well as participate with others who are like-minded. RZ [00:27:50]: So, then I moved to Massachusetts I again had trouble getting a job [laughing], �and finally, I got a job. I did a variety of things: helped set up, actually did set up a dual diagnosis program and a program for chronically mentally ill patients and set up a consultation program for substance abuse at one of the major hospitals here. I set up a private practice and then helped form a group of psych nurses who were again advanced practice psych nurses and we lobbied along with other nurses for prescriptive authority. So, in the early 90s we managed to politically convince the legislators that we need an expanded Nurse Practice Act and should be allowed to prescribe psychotropic medications. So, I spent some time teaching at the University of Massachusetts, again psych nursing, mostly clinical teaching, although I've done quite a bit of classroom teaching. Then I also became involved in the American Holistic Nursing Association. That fit with my interest in hypnosis and imagery, which I practiced a fair amount in my private psychotherapy practice. I became actively engaged in the American Holistic Nursing Association. Then I decided since my kids were grown and gone and I decided I really would love to go back to school and get a doctorate. So, I did. And I went to NYU. So, I went back to New York and commuted from Massachusetts, Western Massachusetts to New York City twice a week and I finished my doctorate in nursing and my dissertation was on intentionality and healing which I’m continuing to study, teach and publish about. I continued to have a private practice in Amherst, Massachusetts, where I did psychotherapy and prescribing. I saw a lot of students as there are five colleges around Amherst. I also saw a variety of other kinds of patients. And I finally retired ten years ago, but I’ve continued to do research on intentionality and healing and to teach in workshop classes and present at national and international conferences. I was an adjunct faculty at UMass for quite a while up until just recently. And became the chairperson of the newly developing research committee at AHNA and later helped to develop that. And since that time, again I've just been working on papers and presentations mostly related to the concept of healing and intentionality. SR [00:31:40]: Oh wow, yea, that was great. RZ [00:31:47]: My whole life history. SR [00:31:51]: Yea, no, that was great. I have to type up an entire transcript, but I’m not... RZ [00:31:59]: Oh God. [laughing] SB [00:31:59]: ...But I'm not complaining. I'm a pretty fast typer I think. RZ [00:32:05]: OK that's good. SB [00:32:06] OK, so the last couple questions they’re just about the closing of the Skidmore program. So, the first question is, tell me about the closing of the program. So you said that you were pretty involved in that actually. RZ [00:32:23]: Well, in terms of the closing I was primarily involved in protesting it, and not wanting it to happen. I actually had a couple of students, when I was, where was I? I was in New York working at St.Vincent’s when this was happening. The nursing program �was still in New York and they built a new building which was really lovely. Before that we were staying in the NYU medical residence with the medical students. Skidmore built their own building which was a beautiful residence hall and probably overspent. Again, many of the students I think in the program, in the nursing program, were scholarship students. We were an extensive program because we were off campus and because several of the students were scholarship students. And so, it came down to dollars and cents, I'm sure. But those of us who had graduated really felt that Skidmore was losing something that really made it very special, and what more can I say about that? You know there were a lot of us that were protesting that and trying to stay involved. Let's see, Hunter-Gault, Charlene Hunter-Gault, who was a reporter for BBC, no for PBS NewsHour was on the board [I think she was on the board] and she supported our trying to keep the program alive. But the board of trustees finally voted to close it and I just think it was a big loss. The loss to those of us who were alums and for a while, nursing alums were very angry and disappointed. And I think a lot of people did not go back for reunions and didn't donate because they were mad. You know, and I think that's changed over the years. But it was an unhappy kind of thing for those of us who went through the program. When you’re in the program you don’t realize how unusual it is until you get out and you start comparing programs that other people went to what they learned and what their experiences were like. RZ [00:35:32]: I was very grateful when Terry Fulmer who was the dean at NYU for a very long time and a Skidmore graduate, really wanted something to happen for nursing and Skidmore. I think it was only a few years ago she set this program up, an easy transition from Skidmore to the NYU nursing program. I don't know what else to say about that. SB [00:35:57]: No, that’s great. So, the last question is when and how did you first hear about the closure? RZ [00:36:05]: Boy, that's a good question. I honestly don't know. I think, I think it may have been from the student I was mentoring who was in the second to last class. I think she might have told me and boy the year... I don't know. I was still in New York so it had to be ’85… ’84. I don't know, I’d have to look it up, when they actually started thinking about closing. SB [00:36:52]: Right. I think, I think it closed in '85, I thought. RZ [00:37:00]: Yeah. That sounds about right. SB [00:37:04]: But, I think they let the, you know the students who were still like undergraduates, they let them still complete the program. [RZ: Right. Right.] They didn't just throw them out. So, that's all I've got for you. Yeah, thanks so much for talking. RZ [00:37:23]: No none of the questions that you sent me, which is fine. SB [00:37:27]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think I've got a lot here. So... �RZ [00:37:33]: [laughing] I think you do too. SB [00:37:34]: So, I don’t think we need to go into those questions and also there was a lot of, there was a lot of stuff, you know a lot of different stuff from those questions that were kind of in your answers. [RZ: Yes] And yeah, thank you so much for talking to me. RZ [00:37:50]: Oh, you’re welcome and I really wish you luck and you know if I can be any help to you if you decide you want to do nursing, I’m happy to do that. SB [00:37:59]: Ok, thank you so much. RZ [00:38:00]: Oh, you’re welcome. And I wish you all the best in terms of graduating, that’s very cool. SB [00:38:09]: Thank you so much. [RZ: Alrighty] Alright, it was good talking to you. RZ [00:38:12]: Ok. SB [00:38:15]: Bye. RZ [00:38:17]: Thank you very much. Bye, bye. SB [00:38:20]: Bye. � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Stephen Ribe '19 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Rothlyn Zahourek '65 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 38:20 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rothlyn Zahourek, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rothlyn Zahourek '65 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 6, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ee1107fa101205b73150e0d570dee24c.jpg 7ca0a37ef9b10098868f374df6609baf https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/7cf967780f8369623dfae71cade4406e.jpg 6ef9eafe495027de2fa971f42d1fd6e5 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6bb14c9b60e1c38e48327974de4b65ae.m4a 21f13d148da2cd96052d09c44715621a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/be9368872857143025e99629ce68b453.pdf 6e8cd5e71b9c35fa96756683d5e79299 PDF Text Text Interview with Nora Steele '69 by Grace Heath '19, COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program, 2019. GRACE HEATH [00:00:00]: So if you could just start by stating your name and your class year. NORA STEELE [00:00:03]: I'm Nora Steele. I'm Nursing class of '69. GH [00:00:08]: So, what drew you to Skidmore in particular? NS [00:00:12]: Well, I always wanted to be a nurse from the time I was like four or five years old. But when it came time to pick a college, I wasn't picking a college, I wanted to go to a nursing school. And my father made it very clear that I had to go to a baccalaureate program. I couldn't go to our local diploma program. And this was, this was even in advance of some of the national publicity. But, and Skidmore had one of the best reputations. It was like one of the top ten Nursing programs in the country. And I came to visit Skidmore and I fell in love and I said, 'okay, this is where I want to go.' And my guidance counselor in high school said, 'Well, you have to apply to another school. You can't just apply into Skidmore College.' And I said, 'That's the only place I'm going to go.' And so, of course, the rejection letter from the other school came first, and I took it back to him and he said, 'No, no, no, no, no, no, no.' It was a clerical error from the other school. But a week later, I got my acceptance from Skidmore, and that was, in like Flynn. And Skidmore was a kind of a perfect, a really good place for me. I made some really good friends here. The Nursing students were spread out across the whole old campus. Some of us were in dorm rooms; some of us were in the old houses. And we kind of got to know each other and then went to New York City. GH [00:01:54]: So backtracking a bit, what was it that made you interested in nursing? Was anyone in your family involved in medicine or? NS [00:02:04]: My mother wanted to be a nurse, but her father wouldn't let her because it wasn't something that a debutante did. That was not, but when it came time during the war, she was a, the housemother for the nurses. And so, she had kind of a nursing interest. GH [00:02:23]: Yeah. NS [00:02:24]: So it was just, I wanted to be a nurse. GH [00:02:30]: So, what was the structure of the program like when you got to Skidmore? NS [00:02:34]: At the time, it was a, it's like a two, it's almost a two plus two. We spent the first year on the main campus, the first summer in New York with some really basic, and at the time, we lived in the medical student dorm. And then the second year we were in Fahnestock Hall. So, they found a dorm for us that was just nursing. And we had both our classes and our dorm rooms were all in the same building. Then we had the second summer off, so the summer right in the middle. And that was what, the time it was set up so in New York State, you could get licensed as an LPN, which meant some of us could work starting then and get a hands-on nursing experience a lot more than we can get just school year. So, some of our learning got to be much more meaningful. I did the LPN and I went to work at the hospital where I was going to go to their diploma program. But I went back and I, I worked as an LPN for the summer and then our third semester was in New York City, was full nursing curriculum. And then our summer after, between our junior and senior year was �also in New York City. And then we came back to the main campus for the fourth year. Now, I did something not really smart. I spent my Christmas money working as an LPN, and a group of us went to Saint Thomas in the Virgin Islands. NS [00:04:22]: And I was hitchhiking with British sailors, and I was in an accident, and I broke my ankle. [00:04:31]: Oh, my gosh. [00:04:31]: So I was now six, six weeks, it was spring break. We had six weeks of clinical and then summer. And then I could come up here and I could do all the classes here on crutches, but I couldn't be a nurse in the city on crutches. So, the faculty were incredibly flexible with me and they let me sit in on all the theory classes and do all the theory exams. I just couldn't do the patient care and the same thing. And the summer program, we just picked something that didn't involve direct patient care at the summer time. So, I did some things that were related to direct patient care that I had previously given. And so, it was, but the faculty worked with me and my classmates to let me finish the program. So as soon as I was off crutches, which didn't happen until after they all graduated in October, I came back, went back to New York City for six weeks and I did my clinical so I finished everything in 1969, but they didn't let me walk across the stage until 1970. GH [00:05:53]: No. NS [00:05:55]: But that was, it was okay. I had, I got my nursing degree and they had been, I mean, they individualized what I needed. And we had an outstanding faculty. I didn't realize at the time, and I've kind of looked back. I am now, I've got a doctorate in nursing. And so, I've been looking at, okay, were the Skidmore faculty involved with the professional nurse’s organization? Were they publishing? Did they do this? Did they do? And I never had a sense of that as a student at all. All I know is they knew, they knew the topics they were teaching, and when I needed something individualized, they set it up. So, it worked for me. GH [00:06:48]: Yeah. So, going more to the New York City aspects of the program, seems to be a pretty big part of it. So, if you could just talk a little bit more about just your experience and going back after leaving, like you were saying and just what was that like being in New York City? NS [00:07:07]: Well, part of training as a nurse, you need to have experience in every type of nursing. And Saratoga Springs doesn't exactly give you the opportunity to have experience in every type of nursing. So, the faculty at Skidmore had the vision to work out an arrangement with New York University. So, we had clinicals with New York University and then we took advantage. The, now the faculty are New York City nurses and they know the kinds of things that are available. So, we worked with the VA Hospital for psych experience and we worked with the Visiting Nurses Association and the New York Public Health Nurses to do, or public health nurses, and then for our obstetric, they went to the hospital where they did most, most of the deliveries in the area. So, it was really, really worked out. We didn't do much with Bellevue, which is the big, because they had their own nursing program and they had an affiliation with Hunter where they were doing some things, so Skidmore didn't do anything with Bellevue. I did get to do some stuff with Bellevue because my patient from public health had to go to Bellevue. So, I had some indirect experience. But we did things in the neighborhood, in the neighborhood where we were kind of, where the dorm was and it was all New York University Hospital. �GH [00:08:50]: What was the, what was the living situation like in your city, being housed with all the other women in your program? Right? Is that how it was set up? NS [00:09:00]: Yeah. It, it was, it was fine. I didn't, we had some interesting, exciting experiences with our elevator operator and the bathing facilities weren't that exciting, but and it wasn't really clean. I know I had, in the medical student dorm, it was very much like the dorms here. It was not, and we had two people in one room and then one person in another. But then we went to Fahnestock Hall and that was generally one person per room or two people in one room and they have another, but that Fahnestock Hall also had a kitchen. So when we were in Fahnestock Hall, we didn't have any meal service, so we got to do our own meals, or we'd go out to eat. So, we all had, like, little bar stoves, and there was a, after my accident when I was on crutches, going up and down the stairs and cooking and going out to eat, it did create some interesting experiences, but my classmates made sure I ate a balanced meal once a day. And there was someone who cooked regularly in the kitchen and they said 'come down to eat with us.' And that worked out really, really well for me. GH [00:10:30]: Yeah. So then going back to Skidmore after having this more, this different experience in New York City, what was that transition like coming back? NS [00:10:44]: The, we had kind of anticipated, I was on the, the newspaper, the newspaper staff when I was a freshman. I got some, and then I did, I was the liaison when I was in the city. So, coming back, I knew I was going to work for the newspaper. So, I kind of just fit right back in there. And our dorm rooms, when we picked out who we wanted to be close to. GH [00:11:11]: Yeah. NS [00:11:12]: And the suite I was in, there was all nurses. But the classes were all mixed, and again, I was on crutches, so I was probably not as involved in some of the things as I might have been otherwise. GH [00:11:27]: Yeah. NS [00:11:27]: Oh, and we were at Kimball Hall. GH [00:11:30]: Oh, yeah. NS [00:11:32]: Yeah. GH [00:11:32]: What kind of classes, then, were you taking senior year? After your… NS [00:11:37]: We had to take a lot of our liberal arts. Our freshman year was pretty much the core, the English and psychology, biology, chemistry. So senior year we got to do the kind of things we wanted to do to flesh out our liberal arts background. So, I took art appreciation and 19th century art and two political science courses, and then we had our nursing seminar. And those are the only courses I remember. But, yeah. GH [00:12:20]: So, then what was your path like after Skidmore? What kind of, what did you do, I guess, after graduation? NS [00:12:30]: After graduation, I started working as an RN, and I went home to my house to where my parents were, and then I was engaged to be married after our graduation in June. So, I knew I arranged for a job where he was living in North Carolina, but I wanted to work �until I went down there. So, I finished school in October. I got my RN license. I went to Strong in Rochester and said, 'I'm an RN, I'll work for, for two or three months here if you'll, if you have a position for me.' So they hired me and paid me and I worked like 11 to 7, something really exciting. And then I went to North Carolina and I worked in the position that I wanted to, which was nursery. GH [00:13:21]: Oh, okay. NS [00:13:23]: And then I went to New Orleans. When I applied for a job there, I got, I was not as educated as or as picky as I should have been. But they said the only position they had, I wanted a job that was on the public transportation system from where we were living. And so, I got the job they offered me was med surg, head nurse. GH [00:13:50]: What was that? NS [00:13:51]: I was a brand-new graduate, you know, I'm trying to graduate with only experiences in LPN as the head nurse on a med surg unit when she's applying for OB Pedes, outpatient. Yeah, because that was where my love was. But I took the job, and I fulfilled the responsibilities with the help of the in-service education people and the chaplain, because I had some fun experiences there. GH [00:14:24]: Yeah. Oh. NS [00:14:26]: And six months later, the position I really wanted opened up. And Pris, who was one of my college roommates met the head nurse from the OB Peds clinic at a conference in Wisconsin, and they had a position as she was leaving. And so, she called me and said, 'you know, the position that you want is coming vacant,' and so I went to talk to the supervisor. GH [00:14:57]: Yeah. NS [00:14:57]: And she said, 'Yeah, I need you.' But that was because of Skidmore contacts, which it's a really small world. GH [00:15:08]: Very much so. NS [00:15:09]: It's a really small world. GH [00:15:10]: Yeah. So how long were you in that job for then? NS [00:15:18]: Four year, four years. I mean, I did the, the job, and then I got promoted to head nurse, and then I got promoted to supervisor. So, I stayed with that agency for about four years. And then I was offered a position at the university to teach, so I started my master's degree. GH [00:15:39]: Okay. NS [00:15:40]: And, and teaching. GH [00:15:43]: Nice, so I guess, one of the last questions I have is, what was your reaction to hearing about the closing of the program? NS [00:15:56]: Anger and frustration. It was like for why? It's one of the best programs in the �country. How come? It's not fair. They need to continue it. It didn't make any sense. GH [00:16:10]: Yeah. NS [00:16:14]: It was obviously something I didn't have any control over, and, and it happened. GH [00:16:20]: Yeah. So then just looking back at your time at Skidmore, how do you, I guess just how, how do you look back on that now, those experiences after all these years of, you know, being in this field? NS [00:16:39]: It's, it's incredible. I didn't realize when I was going through the program. What a solid foundation I was getting in both nursing and, and life. GH [00:16:56]: Yeah. NS [00:16:57]: Yeah, and it, it's some of the same things talked about in the award ceremony today. It's like when you look back and you go, 'wow,' you know. I think part of it has to do with the, the people who come to Skidmore have just a broad spectrum of experiences. When you look at the different countries people come from. I mean, in my dorm freshman year, I had somebody who had been a runner up from Ms. America and somebody else who had grown up primarily in India and in the Foreign Service. And you put those people kind of in the same environment and they find things in common. GH [00:17:50]: Yeah. NS [00:17:51]: And it provides you with a real solid base of working with people. GH [00:17:57]: Yeah. Well, I think I can stop the... � Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Grace Heath '19 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nora Steele '69 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 18:02 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Nora Steele, Jesse O'Connell Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nora Steele '69 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. COMPASSIONATE HANDS: Skidmore’s Nursing Program Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Jesse O'Connell Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio Interview Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. April 5, 2023 Nursing https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3fe4f85fa2d021aaaa1979ba53f92c24.jpeg a89be8911847e2c39be75c40912864d6 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/22282d1ea4f2320a71a2188b2e01399b.mp3 c2b26302ad27d654558a48670e97fdb2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Samuel Register Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tillman Nechtman Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data .WAV mp3 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 30:56 min Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Samuel Register Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 08/03/18 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Tillman Nechtman Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 21 February, 2018 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Register, Samuel '20 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/a7f04e896cbe1009628b80ec5c50f14b.jpeg 9eb842488ea28462feaa6cff59217f34 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/997688abe335490bcc0811b5c4908a65.m4a 28b669c0d80ee2c3356f05da25dfb39e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latinx Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Amara, Freddy Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Manuel Francisco Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Manuel Francisco Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 3/10/17 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available HI251C: History of Latinx in the U.S. Description An account of the resource Manuel (nickname Manny) taked about his life growing up in the city of Boston, Massachusetts. He is studying Game Design at Bunker Hill Community College in Boston. He shares his thoughts and experiences about being the son of two immigrants - his mother is from Puerto Rico, his father is from Honduras. Language A language of the resource English Abstract A summary of the resource. Manuel Alexander Francisco, who is 24 and currently studying Game Design at Bunker Hill Community College, shared his thoughts and experiences with his neighbor Freddy on March 10th, 2017. Manuel was born in Boston as the son of two immigrants - his mother is from Puerto Rico and his father is from Honduras. He shares about what aspects of his life are and are not influenced by his family's culture. Tradition wise, his family does not celebrate traditional Puerto Rican or Honduran holidays, such as Three Kings Day. Instead, his family celebrates the usual American holidays such as Christmas or Thanksgiving. His grandparents (mother's parents) live with him, and they bring Puerto Rican cooking into his life with traditional dishes such as pasteles. Manuel does not speak Spanish, which was his choice, but says it would be useful for his job if he could. He discusses the benefits of diversity in Boston and forms of discrimination that Latinx people face in the city. The discussion turns to what Manuel believes is the future of Latinx politics in the United States, and he is optimistic that Latinx voters will make an impact.  Boston Computer Science Discrimination Diversity Game Design Holidays Honduras Latinx Pasteles Puerto Rico Spanish Traditions