1 40 60 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/bb7728d13b337413eee904280491c15e.jpg ad736b49156b2e3832ae2524ce63b376 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/935bd5d7ac4027fa126a88a8e581c51b.m4a 8ce8fd3f456571ffaff64c33a2f96fc5 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/302c148993179e06f3f0bab8b3a22e99.jpg fff7d77e5ab015199ec15c8a7a14b448 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/62e66feefaa9462c2cc743ca8569afa9.pdf 970423d2b78f3c23effe7588bc793ed7 PDF Text Text 1 Title Evelyn Vasquez Interview Date June 2nd, 2018 Language Eng Interviewer Emily Rizzo Location Media Services, Skidmore Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Original Format Audio Recording Duration 39:30 Tags HEOP , Opportunity Program , Raíces , Study abroad , Alumni , Oral history , Skidmore College �2 ER: Can we start with you saying your full name, your class year, your major, and where you’re from? E: Class of 1998. originally from the DR, I was born there, grew up in Washington Heights, New York. currently live in Westchester, NY. ER: You said you met your husband here? Can we talk about that? EV: So, we met here. we were both HEOP students. It also happened that he's also Dominican, so I guess there was an attraction, some sort of comfortable place with that. we actually didn’t date until senior year. and that's when we became a couple, things happen in-between, and 10 years after we graduated... yeah 10 years, we got together for good. we have now four kids, two boys and two girls, ages of 12 and four, four through 12. One of the benefits of your partner being from the same school and actually the same year, makes coming back actually so much sweeter. Because he's also comfortable in the environment, he also wants to come and see friends. and we can sort of reminisce together, "Oh you remember in the cafeteria, all the parties we attended..." So, it's sort of an always Skidmore reminder when that happens to someone, which is a good thing. ER: Yeah. What have you guys been reminiscing about? Anything that is really sticking out? EV: Oh, me trying to get all the girls off his back! *Laughs* The majority here are girls. The student population is mostly female, and I think was 60... I don’t know I can’t remember the ratio but... So, I always joke with him, I always had to stand my ground and let the girls know, "Hey he's with me." [Laugh]. ER: It's always a problem here. �3 EV: Then the other thing we reminisce about is our HEOP experience and our HEOP summer. And a character that's always lively from a professor perspective was Sheldon [Solomon, professor of psychology]. So all the funny grades he would give us and then we would say, "You know what? He was right." My husband was saying he got an F- and the comment was, Sheldon wrote, "You should try harder to fail." And then another one was, "You got a D for dog shit." And he's like, "You know what? But he was right." Because he wasn’t up to the quality and it's like... back then we were like, "How dare he give us this grade and say all these comments!" And then we look back and he's like, "You know what, those were great advice." [Laugh]. EV: We reminisce about... We were also part of Raíces. I don’t know if it has the same name, but it was the Latino Hispanic student club and we would do performances. So obviously we were always part of the dancing crew. There was always a group of us that for every Latino celebration we made sure we did some sort of dance performance to a meringue, salsa... {...] and we were always involved with that. And sometimes we'd get upset like, "You're not following me, what are you thinking, pay attention, you don't know how to dance." Cause we would practice a lot, we thought we were professionals on stage because we wanted to put on a good show. It was a cultural show, we wanted to show that off like this is our culture and we're proud of it. So we took time and pride in what we were building to put out for the Skidmore community. EV: Just a couple of things that we reminisce and talk about. ER: That's amazing. I want to ask questions about all those things, but I want to start from the beginning... can you talk about your experience with HEOP? EV: Mind you, this was 20 years ago, so HEOP was the Higher Education Opportunity Program. I think it has evolved a little bit through the years. So back when I started it was mostly for domestic students. I think now we've expanded to serve international students. The perspective to give domestic students, usually from inner-city, who obviously have shown �4 potential through their high school career to have access to outstanding college education. So it came with not only a support system, but it also came with financial aid support as well. Because obviously a lot of kids that came to that program had also financial... required some financial support as well. EV: But what I remember most is all the support the program provided. So, I guess a lot of us came from inner cities where a lot of us didn't receive the best education growing up but we definitely had the potential to develop and obviously be in a classroom with kids that have had a world class education all through their lives. And they had what they call the higher education opportunity program summer, the HEOP Summer, and there you would get tutored in all the foundations to give you a good start for college. So it was the summer before your freshman year. You come in you get an intensive writing course, you get your basic math course, then we also took some sort of psychology... that liberal arts perspective as well. So it was really a program that supported you more than just financially, it was emotionally. I know a lot of us went to the HEOP office for emotional support, people that you can talk to when you're having a hard time. EV: For many of us coming to Skidmore was a culture shock. People talk, "Oh it's the real world." But I look back and I'm like, well I was living in the real world before coming to Skidmore except that everybody looked like me, talked like me...I grew up in a neighborhood in Washington Heights that was predominantly Dominicans, Latinos, so everybody spoke Spanish. I went to high school where 99.9 of the people were people of color. You obviously got exposed out of your real world but pretty much my real world was people like me, that sound like me, that ate like me, that dressed like me, that had curly hair like me right. And then you come into Skidmore and for me it was a culture shock and I'm pretty sure for other students that perhaps never even dealt with somebody of color, it was also a culture shock. So it was sort of the first time that I looked around and I'm like oh I'm the darkest person. That never happened to me. �5 EV: Oh, wait I'm the only one with curly hair. Oh shoot I'm the only one with an accent and you do feel a little bit like an outsider and to be honest that was really hard for me and it took some time for me to understand my environment and try to be successful in it. Not because I couldn't but because everything was... how can I say it? Because other things that should have been okay, became top of mind for me, like my skin color, everything else, my accent. I remember, reading whatever assignment, whatever we had, like 20,000 times because I was like oh my god I have a question, but I want to make sure that it’s not answered in the book because I was like I don't want to speak up. If the answer is in the book then I can figure it out myself but if it’s not, oh I have to raise my hand and speak up and my accent... You sort of feel so much conscious about what is I guess your natural being. EV: So the HEOP was there to support a lot of us through that and make sure that we not only survived in an environment that was not our everyday environment, an environment that we weren't used to, but really strive in it and do well. I mean I think I did great from an academic perspective at Skidmore. I was a double major, I was part of the honors society. So I think if the HEOP office wasn't there I would have most likely gotten lost and a little bit drowned by all these things that became top of mind rather than my focus on my studies. So I look back and I think the HEOP program was really the foundation for me to do well here. EV: And I think back and look back at Skidmore as this great place that opened the world to me in a way. So as you go through it you may not be appreciate but then after you've gone you're like you know what? I'm glad it took me out of my comfortable Washington heights because that was my world, but the world is so much bigger than that. And it's an appreciation for different worlds out there and that are accessible to me. I was reading somewhere; a great college is not one that prepares you for the four years that you're there it's really the one that prepares you for life. And I think that's what Skidmore has done to me; sort of prepare me, not for the four years that I was here because they go by so quickly but what comes after that for the rest of my life and how do I handle myself, how do I carry myself, how do I take advantage of those opportunities that I see and really open the world and a new perspective. �6 ER. Wow thank you so much for sharing, I really appreciate it. EV: No problem, no problem. ER: It's really nice to hear. Thank you. EV: Not a problem. ER: I mean I'm so glad that it exists, the OP program. EV: And I hope that it still does that, I know that Skidmore is doing great strides for diversity and I hope that the Equal Opportunity Program is the backbone to that because it does provide so much more to the students that come in who for some reason may feel different or otherwise that perhaps would not do well without the program. It's a great program. ER: I think Skidmore needs to keep going with it, keep getting better and better, because it's still predominantly white. Most of the teachers are white and teachers, this is something I've been thinking a lot about lately, a lot of the teachers are really just not... are stuck in their comfort zone and not willing to talk about what it means to be white and what white supremacy is and how whiteness affects how they teach and how they should, how race and social issues and the world should be part of the classroom. We're not really talking about that. I'm looking forward to that happening more. EV: Yeah and a lot of the issues that you mention, white supremacy, a lot of people do not, it's so engrained into our society that it happens subconsciously without people thinking about it. I think we do need to take a pause, say what's going on here, because we can put numbers around it. But going back to what I was saying, how do we know when we're successful? And I think that's when somebody like me can come in and not look around and say oh my god I'm �7 the darkest person. Oh my god I'm the only one with curly hair, oh my god I’m the only one with an accent. Instead of numbers its really like when you can have this diverse group of people be part of the community and not feel like they are the only one and they are the one that looks like an outsider. So when we have that, like when people like me don’t have to look and say oh I’m the darkest one, brown skin, I’m the one that sounds kind of weird, looks different. And it's not only a Skidmore problem. It goes beyond that. But yeah what is the school doing, is it doing enough? Or is what it's doing being efficient? Because I'm pretty sure a lot is being done and it's top of mind for the school, but I think we need to take a step back and say okay what are the actions we are taking and is this working? Is this creating the value that we want to be created? And it's something that me as an alumni take seriously. We try to shape that by volunteering, by our time, by giving a different perspective as well. Because I just cannot come back every reunion year and expect things to change if I don't give back and be part of the process and be part of the solution and be part of how can we make Skidmore better? So it works both ways as well. But yeah, I definitely agree there is much work to be done and I know it's top priority for Skidmore. Whether it is where we want it to be, I’m not sure. ER: Well thank you so much for your work, your devotion to this place. What ideas do you have? I mean are you seeing some things that Skidmore is doing and saying this isn't efficient and what do you think Skidmore should be doing? I feel like you will have a perspective as an alum... You're saying that you're aware that this is top priority right but maybe it's not efficient. What do you think they can do to be better or what's something new they can do? EV: That's a good question and I don't think I have the answer. [Laugh]. I definitely have some ideas. This is the thing with diversity because you need to have a balance... an easy one is you need to increase your diversity numbers, which I think Skidmore is doing. But I think it's once the student gets here, what support are they being provided. What can the college do more from that social engagement? Which I think was something that I didn't have. And again, it could have changed. To give an example, some of it could be my fault but also... some of it like I �8 said could be self-inflicted, but also some of it could have probably been a little bit relieved by the college. So one of the... I don’t want to say one of the biggest regrets but if I could do something over in college its expose myself socially more. Because I was so concerned about oh my god I represent not just me but my race, my ethnicity, that you don’t want to be the dumbest person in the class. I think... and again I'm talking personally, I created this bubble around me where I didn't socialize as much with people outside of my HEOP classmates. I always look back and I’m like how know what I could have socialized a bit more I could have engaged more with people. And again, some of it is self-inflicted but I think if there was some sort of way to increase that social engagement it would be a win win for the college and for the student because going back the HEOP provided great support great emotional and academic support but I think for that social engagement with everybody else within the college and within your classmate was a little bit failing. Again I don’t know if there exists something that can create these environments and for that socialization to happen, but I think it’s important. Because then what you're going to have is people still staying in their own little groups you know, and you’ll only have a few that might be branching out and creating friendships outside and sort of creating that social dynamic, which I believe then would impact everything else. at least that’s... that would be some of the things that I would improve. looking at what kind of social opportunities are there for that engagement to happen. because the other thing with diversity is, anything that’s like you call it diversity only certain people will show up, which are the people that identify themselves as diverse for a reason or other. and so what happens then, even that group it’s the "diverse" group only, when it should actually be imbedded within the total community. I was actually for one of my last employers, I was one of the diversity recruitment. And we had a bunch of activities. And I’m like you know what it’s great that we're talking about diversity but the only people that are coming to this diversity talk are the African Americans or Latinos or women and I’m like where’s everybody else? were like preaching to the choir. So it’s like how do we make diversity so that at it becomes a natural to the backbone of the Skidmore experience, rather than just these pockets of activities that are happening. where then only people that are affected by some diversity issue attend, its like I said, it’s like you’re �9 preaching to the choir, amen hallelujah. you’re not doing it to the entire congregation. so I think it’s that. its embedding it through the whole Skidmore experience. EV: How do you do that? I mean that's a great question. [Laugh]. ER: That's another story. Okay I want to ask, what was your favorite class here? Do you remember? EV: Oh my god, so you know what? I remember what was my favorite class and I don't know if they do this but BU107... Let me go back. So I was a double major in business and government. And the first class that I had was BU107. I don't know if it's still the same curriculum, but you study... you select a group of people, you study a company, and then at the end of the semester you present a big presentation about that company’s sort of financials, marketing strategy, operation strategy and you present it in front of a panel. oh my god that presentation, I remember my legs were shaking like crazy because I wasn’t used to public speaking. and it stuck. I was so nervous I mean I can still feel... every time I think about it I can still feel my hands getting sweaty, my team... we [were] standing outside the room with our corporate attire and my legs are shaking oh my god I think I had the financial piece of it. oh man. so it was one of those classes, at least for me, coming from where I was coming from, where it’s like you either swim or drown kind of deal. so I don’t know if it’s my favorite but it’s definitely the one that I remember the most and I think about it and I’m like oh I can totally take back all these emotions that I was feeling at that moment. I remember that into today, my hands were sweaty my legs were shaking. it was in itself an experience to have. I think it was a good experience. it puts you out there in front of people that are evaluating you, and then I remember dreading oh my god they're going to have questions they're going to ask questions, what questions do they have? So I remember that class. ER: So is it one of those things that you appreciate more now... �10 EV: Yeah you definitely appreciate it more because I was like I’ve never spoken in front of anyone. and I definitely have brought out ideas or anything that I’ve studied out to the open and saying this is what I think and challenge it and never had the opportunity to be in that opportunity. It’s great it’s what you do in your everyday... I don’t want to say life but definitely in your job. you present your ideas and people want to challenge it and then you come back and say that’s great but let’s look at it this way. so I think it was a great stepping stone. I look at it with a lot of.... not reminiscing.... with a positive mindset. ER: That class is a big deal still. EV: It's still a big deal? Okay. ER: Oh, I know... I always see the groups together, they’re dressed up. It's one of the classes that I wished I experienced because it seems like such an experience, you learn so much. EV: It is, and you do. You're preparing for it. Every semester. it’s not like the last three days before the presentation. you’re studying the company, you’re looking things up. I remember my business case was Robert Mondavi wine, winery. Which back then was starting. Now I think it’s big but that was our study case, the Robert Mondavi company. And I remember that [laugh] and it was 24 years ago. So it was nice. It was nice. Let's see what other class I took... I took some government courses which was interesting. I took dance. I actually wanted to minor in dance, I took modern dance one and two, I took ballet one and two. And then I took an improvisational course, dance improvisation or something like that and we did a performance and my friend came out of that saying, "Yeah stick to business." [laugh]. They were good friends [laughs]. So I didn't take a dance class after that [laugh]. And I was like well that’s kind of mean and they were like yeah you know [laugh] stick to business and government for now, leave the dance. but it was great. I got to experience that. so yeah, I mean it was fun. it was fun doing the dance classes. �11 ER: That's so Skidmore, to take a random dance class. EV: Yeah [laugh]. I never took ceramics oh my god, that’s the one that I always wanted to take, and it just never quite made it into my schedule. My junior year I actually was not at Skidmore. That was a year that I spent away from Skidmore. Because first the fall of my junior year I went to American University and I did the semester there and I got an internship with senator Moynihan back then. That was awesome. that was an awesome experience. You probably don't know Senator Moynihan, but he was the Senator that we can refer back as coining the phrase, "You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts." Which is so true for today. He coined it so many years ago. He passed away, he was the senior senator for New York. And my job was simple as an intern there. I needed to open the letters that we get from his constituents and say okay this is related to education, this one is related to the environment, the highways, so sort of organize them in the buckets they belong. But it was just a great experience being on capitol hill and doing that and seeing him walking down the hall and you’re just like, “Wahh that’s Senator Moynihan.” ER: That's so cool. That was through Skidmore? EV: That was through Skidmore yeah. Skidmore participated in that American University program. It's mostly government courses and part of that program was to get an internship so that was my internship that I got there so it was great. Then my Spring semester I went to Spain through Skidmore study abroad program in Spain. And that was wonderful. When I'm telling you, it was an eye opener, it was amazing. I mean just the flight getting there, it’s like, wait we have to be more than four hours in the air plane? How is that possible? I remember we needed to get research... And I’m like it’s this many hours in the airplane it’s like a whole day! Yeah just it’s all that, it’s just great and the Skidmore program was so great because you not only took that culture immersion through the Skidmore program there but perhaps unlike other study abroad programs you got to take courses at the university. which was awesome. so you actually go to socialize with Spanish students there. so it wasn’t just you and your own little Skidmore �12 friends in the Skidmore center you actually went out there with the other students. you went to university classes like you would here. Your professors were Spanish professors. It was an amazing experience. That was great. That definitely opened my world. Definitely a defining moment of my Skidmore experience. It's an opportunity that a lot of perhaps college kids do not get through their campus and here it’s there pretty much for anyone who’s interested. I believe there’s GPA requirements but other than that the program (needs stability). That was great for anybody who wanted to participate in such things. For me it was definitely an eye opener. I don't think I... coming to Skidmore I didn't even know that existed, study abroad programs, I didn't know about that. Just coming here... If I tell you the reason why I chose Skidmore [laugh], it's actually a pretty funny one. It had nothing to do with rankings. Yu know a lot of people, I guess it's about the experience and peoples' backgrounds but... and I’m pretty sure my kids would do this... but... people put time and research in schools and visiting schools and what is their ranks and what career they're going to have and what are their majors, I wasn’t thinking like that. all my mom said was you need to go to college. I was like okay. that was the expectation in my family. and I remember I went to a college fair with my cousin, we were the same age, and there was a Skidmore table there and they said... so we went we were visiting tables and we ended up in the Skidmore table, and there where was people from the admissions office, there was this lady from the HEOP office, Michelle Dupree, I don’t think she’s... She’s no longer with Skidmore but she was definitely into getting me here. so, they were putting out a flyer of a one weekend program at Skidmore. they would pick you up at 42nd street, bring you up from New York City for the weekend. you get to get mini classes, they give you housing and food while you were here. So, I looked at my cousin and was like oh let’s go there. and they mentioned a party and I’m like, "Oh a party? are boys going to be there? yeah okay fine great sign me up. and its free and you come pick me up and you bring me back?" so me and my cousin signed up, thinking it’s a party there’s going to be boys, we were 17 years old right, so I come here... First of all, the drive was beautiful because it was in the fall. And you get one of the current students to host you, so you get to go to their dormitory and stay with them, we had sleeping bags. But guess what? Those rooms are huge for two people. So I remember asking my host, the current student, I’m like " Wait this entire room is for two people? With this �13 big closet? I mean we're five in my family and we all were sharing one room. And it's like, sign me up, where do I come here? I get my own closet [laugh]. Not the rankings, not the major, I was just like what I get my own room my own closet! It's all about the people coming in and what are their backgrounds and experiences. But now I know better and for my kids they’re going to be looking at rankings and what the school has to offer... how many of the students get jobs after graduation. that’s one of the important metrics. but for me it wasn’t like that. all I knew was that I needed to go to college and all I knew was I lived in a crammed apartment with five of us sharing a tiny room and one closet and it was amazing when I came here, and I was like wow just one closet for me I don’t have to share with nobody? This bedroom just me with one other person? So yeah it was definitely an experience. There you go that's how I chose Skidmore. Skidmore chose me too. Because I think it was luck of the draw me going to that table. It was definitely... probably one of the luckiest days of my life when I ended up saying, "okay fine, sign me up." They had a nice party and I'm like "Oh it’s going to be like this all the time." Nah. [Laugh]. I wouldn’t call Skidmore a party school. I don’t think so. Not at least in my experience. But maybe for other people it was that. My 4 years here, I think they were that. They definitely took me out of my comfort zone, which at the time that you're going through it you don’t see all the good things. But definitely after I graduated it was like "Oh my god that was the best thing that happened." All the opportunities that I got, all the experiences that I was able to take advantage of and pursue, definitely makes me a better person today and a more worldly person with a more worldly view of what I think, what my opinions are and what I think does matter, and how can you sort of have an impact to improve things and others. ER: Thank you so much this has been really really great. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily, '18 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Vasquez, Evelyn Yesenia Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Evelyn Yesenia Vaszquez, '98 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1 June 2018 Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Emily Rizzo, '18 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6f601da325c53c4807cfa75b5ead75e5.jpg 653268a7c4eca6bc7088db2d16fbaaec https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d9649161ded7395b963578a5047412ef.m4a 92a3ecfebe2e75423552e3fc8d0175af https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9a6b78c72f22d934d5346ed9d85b0b23.pdf 26758711ce848bfa6279c6da13abad1d PDF Text Text 1 Hess Interview with Gregory Hess by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Saratoga Memory Project, Skidmore College, NY June 1st, 2018 Harry Sultan: So we're all set to get started. If I could just have you introduce yourself. Gregory Hess: Sure. My name's Gregory Hess, or Greg, and I'm from the class of '78. HS: And uh what did you major in when you were at Skidmore? GH: I had a double major in biology and in chemistry and then a minor in business. HS: What is it like to come back to this campus that you graduated from all those years ago. GH: It's a little odd in that it reminds you of how old you are. I can't believe I graduated forty years ago from Skidmore and I think most people my age all say the same thing that when we look in the mirror, we imagine someone in their twenties or in their thirties but can't imagine someone in their sixties. That usually strikes me when I come back to campus. And the other part is that it's grown tremendously and it's still very vibrant which is great. HS: Is this your first time back? GH: No, I've been back several times. HS: And is it different every time you come back? GH: I would say so, you know it continues to grow. I mean literally there are new buildings, things are being renovated. I was back just giving a small lecture to one of the classes about a month ago and I'd been back for a number of occasions, so I always see change which is part of Skidmore's motto HS: And walking around on campus, is there any spot that you see that brings you immediately back to when you were a student? GH: Um, you know probably the dining hall. It's much nicer now in terms of when we were here physically. Although I have to say at the time, Skidmore food was still pretty renowned in the northeast as one of the better places to go to college and have a good meal. But it's much more upscale now. HS: What does it feel to see the dining hall as it is now and remember what it was like back then? GH: You know, very positive. Great experiences there, shoot the breeze about what had happened during the day and what was coming up. So it's just a great place to socialize. And the food, again, was pretty good so you can't complain. But now you look around and they have all the food stations and �2 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: a lot of different options and variety and you realize the school has changed but I think for the better. And outside of chemistry and biology and science classes, what other types of classes did you take at Skidmore. Probably the most odd one in a way was, I took ballet when I was here. That's the type of thing that I of course didn't anticipate when I first came to Skidmore What was it like to take a ballet class? It was very funny at first. You may know the history, but when I was here, Melissa Hayden was a prima ballerina for the New York City Ballet and was very very well known. And it was shortly after she left that position that Skidmore was able to recruit her which was considered quite a coup at the time and I had no familiarity with ballet at all - I'm not even sure if I had ever seen a ballet. So we were starting the Skidmore Hockey Club and after one of our later night practices had ended, we all sort of barged into one of the faculty get togethers that was going on to see if we could scarf down the last appetizers and things that were still there. So uh - they were fine about it - you know it had dwindled down to a small crowd and I started talking to this one woman, you know, more interested in the hors d’oeuvres than chatting, but I was trying just to be social. And so as I started asking her questions, things along the lines of "oh are you a faculty member here, or are you the wives of one of the faculty?". She said "no I teach here" and started telling me more - someone later said, you know thats Melissa Hayden, the prima ballerina of New York City - and part of our conversation when I said I was teaching skiing up the road at West Mountain and Gore and on the hockey team, she was explaining to me how athletic it is to be a ballet dancer and so I was really more just kidding I said, 'yea that'd be great to take ballet, yea.' So next thing you know I got in those days we didn't really have email - I think I got a note in the mail from the registrar saying 'you're failing phys-ed something-or-other' and I'm not sure how it happened, but apparently she signed me up for ballet. So she wouldn't let me out without trying at least a couple of classes, so that's how I got into ballet. And do you think it helped you in skiing and hockey? It really did, I was amazing at how much strength it took to do that. You know, I was a horrible dancer, but it was a great activity for me. And I must say, it helped me get into medical school eventually which is one of my primary professions. She wrote me a great recommendation, and when I was being interviewed in fact, they remarked on it. That they were �3 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: interested in diversity and were pleased to see that I took something out of just science and biology. And so you took a lot of science, biology, dance; outside of academics what sort of things did you do? I was fortunate that Skidmore gave me a great deal of financial aid to come here but at the same time when I came - so I'll put it in context, I was a bit overwhelmed by the ratio of men to women so I think as part of that and also though still having a lot of financial need, I ended up getting a job bartending downtown, that was when the drinking age was still eighteen in New York - and I was actually seventeen when I first came here but they didn't think to ask for an ID, my birthday is late October. So I ended up bartending at a number of places in town and waiting tables and that gave me another dimension. A lot of the Skidmore students would come there but a lot of friends who were quote townies as we referred to them at the time, but you know, great people. And then I had a lot of friends that I developed, again, from teaching skiing, so that was a great experience to have sort of a foot in the Skidmore Saratoga Springs environment and also at the ski centers. So what was it like, maybe not having two separate lives, but two separate social scenes, one on campus with Skidmore students and one downtown with the locals. It really was the best of both worlds. Because I bartended downtown and Skidmore was about 2,000 students at the time - fairly similar to today you get to at least know by recognition, if not name, most of the students. And the bars I was a bartender in were extremely popular at the time, so you know a ton of students would come up and I'd know them, and we'd chit-chat briefly. So it was a great way to see the students and at the same time I did a number of things with the folks from town. In fact there was one group of guys that were recent grads from other colleges who had just migrated here to have jobs and they were in their early 20s and were quite a cast of characters. So they actually got written up in the New York Times as an example called the TI's which stood for 'terminally immature'. And you know, they had their pros and cons but they were largely hysterical guys in many aspects, and it was great had a great group of guy friends that gave me, again, another dimension. But had a lot of great guy friends on campus too. So you said you were part of the hockey club? I was. I was one of the founding members, yep. And is that the same hockey club that's around today. �Hess 4 GH: It is. I think it's morphed into, if I understand right, into division three hockey here. So yea, at the time ya know, it was a great experience. I grew up in the time when we were still influenced by John Kennedy in the sixties and even in the Vietnam days in the seventies when people said, 'ya know, we can make things happen'. So I think at Skidmore at the time, part of the reason they made it clear that they were - if you would - sort of recruiting me, and they were great in the admissions process, made it clear that they would value me coming here, and made it possible for me to come here was they were looking for men to help really create the co-educational environment and that included things like starting sports. Cause when I came here there was soccer and that was the only sport. So they encouraged us to start clubs so we did with the hockey team. You know, we went to the phys-ed head and said, 'ya know, we wanna do this' and one of the Kennedy sayings I liked at the time was, 'if not us, then who. And if not now, then when?". So we started a lot of things like that. We also started the baseball team and it was just a bunch of guys that got together and it was great. And we actually had women on our hockey team by the way, that time we had so few guys we had two women who had come from some of the New England prep schools and we were actually quite good which I think surprised some of the clubs that showed up to play us from Union and Hamilton and other groups. HS: Did you play hockey and baseball in high school or did you start just for the sake of starting a team. GH: Almost really for the sake of starting the team. Mostly I played a lot of hockey, pond hockey as we would call it, so it was pretty familiar to me that way. I didn't play baseball in school, I did play soccer and tennis and periodically I played one year on the tennis team here, and played on the soccer team three or maybe four years here. HS: Are there any special memories from starting the club, I mean what was it like being the founder of something that is now something so big in Skidmore culture? GH: You know it was just a ton of fun. I was just, to be clear, I was one of a number of guys that got together and founded it but I would say one of the things I think about is because ice time is cheapest late at night or early in the morning, we were last on the peg. We played on a rink down on East Avenue or just off it if I remember, and really it was an outdoor rink that they just had enclosed it in wood. It was pretty rustic. So we would get really hot and sweaty playing through the periods and when we were sitting on the benches because it wasn't a fancy arena and pretty cold it was very common that many times after sitting out for the period you'd get up and �5 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: you'd realize there were icicles hanging off your hair literally. And we'd be breaking them off. And there was no locker room, we'd change up here and go down. And it was just a lot of fun, a lot of great contact. I ended up playing goalie, was one of the funnier things that happened at one point because our goalie, if I remember right, got his wrist broken or sprained in a slap-shot and no one else wanted to be goalie and it was something like I stepped out for a second and came back and they said, 'great, we just elected you our new goalie'. And I was horrible. And no surprise I think my nickname was a sieve which was very appropriate. And so did this all happen during your freshman year that you started the club? Ya know, I really don't remember. I think it was probably more my sophomore year or junior maybe. And do you remember your first night at Skidmore? I don't remember my first night, I do remember my first day. Vividly. Could you talk about that? Sure. The first class I walked into was an english seminar class in Case Center at the time, so those were relatively small rooms. And it was an oval, or oblong table, sat maybe twelve-to-fourteen people. And when I walked in I realized, and we sat down, we were waiting for the teacher who was a bit late, and we're all sitting there in silence, no one really knew each other and everybody was feeling a little awkward. I realized there were two guys and there were twelve women. And I was like, 'oh my god, what have I got myself into'. I don't think I'd even had thought to ask really what's the ratio before I came here, so at first that was really overwhelming. The other thing I remember though is my roommate who was very very quiet. We had nothing to do, we were just sitting in our room so I said 'come on, let's just go out and take a walk around'. So we were walking around, and most people as well I think were feeling pretty awkward so you know, you'd walk towards someone, and they'd look up and we just started saying hello, and most people would say hello back, and that was great, we were getting the reaction you'd anticipate and hope for. And then we came upon one person and, it was a woman, and I remember we both said, ya know, 'hi, how are you' and we got no response and we were a little puzzled and put off and they walked another ten feet past us and we both looked at each other and he turned around and said 'what's your problem?' So we got still no response, but I still remember that cause my roommate just cracked me up. Did you ever find out who she was? I didn't. I didn't. Mystery, yea that's right. �Hess 6 HS: And what was the adjustment like being that there was so few men at the time going into this recently co-ed school. GH: You know, at first for me it really was overwhelming. I was I think relatively shy at that time and hadn't had a serious girlfriend in high school et cetera, so I'm not sure but I think all that combined and the lack of sports, there wasn't even a locker room for men there wasn't a male dorm on campus, there was a floor on the 7th story of the tall dorm here. And in fact we used to call it heaven on the seventh floor. Ya know it was overwhelming. So I actually transferred, or actually applied to transfer out but by the time I was accepted and then gotten the acceptance in the spring, I had made enough good friends and kind of adjusted to the amount of women that were here, and a lot became good friends of mine. You know I love the place and decided to stay. HS: Was there one thing in particular that made you flip that switch to loving Skidmore? GH: I don't think there was one thing. I think there was that combination. I mean among other things, I guess a specific example I was accepted at Cornell for transfer, and they had two electron microscopes. And in Skidmore we still have - I think it might even be the same one, it's probably a newer one than when I was here. But that was pretty amazing that a school of 2,000 people had an electron microscope worth at that time hundreds of thousands if not more than that dollars. And yet I could go in and use it almost virtually any time so that was great and it really was a great learning experience. But I went to Cornell and they had two and I thought 'oh that's great' and I mention it to one of the people almost as a question of how to get access to it. And they said, 'well undergrads really don't get access to that, you know once you're a grad student you might get access to it but you have to be on a waiting list and there's only so much time'. So I started to realize things like the professors here were primarily dedicated to teaching and not so much research and Cornell as I started to really look at it, you were taught more often by grad students who were really teachers assistants and the professors were really more interested in publishing, in research, in grants, in really not teaching. So things like that really made a difference for me. Here, the students, the night life downtown was just hysterical, it was great. HS: Were there any teachers that stick out in your mind as really helping you move on throughout college and what you ended up doing afterward? GH: Ya know, there were a lot. I still remember Bob Mahoney was head of I think biology, and head of the department. And then Roy Myers at the time was here. And they were great, fully accessible. At the time I was not your �7 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: typical student by any stretch and they put up with me and were encouraging and they were great. Why weren't you the typical student? Well I think probably one of the examples was I worked two-to-three jobs when I was here because I had to make ends meet. As part of that, when I graduated from Skidmore I had a pretty high GPA fortunately and had a pretty rigorous schedule with the double major and a minor and so on. So the logical thing to do was to apply to medical school. And at the time it was pretty competitive at the time to get in, I think it was roughly twelve applicants for every one acceptance so they had said, 'ya know where are you applying' and I said 'I'm not applying, I've always wanted to see how good a skier I could be, so I'm going to go out in Colorado and teach skiing and race full time and see what I can do'. And ya know so I think most of the people would shake their head and in fact one of the faculty members said 'you'll never get into medical school'. And ya know Roy and Bob Mahoney said, 'look, totally get it and ya know it's a bit of a risk, but you need to do what you think's best and ya know, go for it' Were your friends at Skidmore also naysaying? Oh no I think they were all, they said 'great, go for it' and were they all also in the same, bio-chem sphere or from sports, or ballet? Ya know, it was such a small campus of 2,000-or-so and only I think about 200-or-so guy, actually when I left it was maybe like 300. I think I had friends across the different environments. There were only I think twelve biology/chemistry majors at the time on campus and I think almost all of them were women, probably statistically. So I had friends who were taking english studies and all sorts of other things, so it was a pretty diverse group. For example, my roommate who only stayed a semester was in fine arts and became a fine arts painter, ya know still makes his living today in Connecticut and has had a lot of very high priced paintings that he's done that've been accepted, but he decided after six months he really just wanted to paint, but still we've stayed in touch and he's a great guy. So what was your average week like between classes and skiing and hockey and two jobs? One of the things I learned was I actually do better on almost all measure for me, including happiness and certainly academics, when I was scheduled. So I'd say during the busiest parts of the year which was winter for me, I would typically have a pretty full day of class because science classes start early in the morning with labs and things and when I finished up with them, a typical, I'd play a sport so say, we'll say late in the season �8 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: maybe before winter, we'd still have soccer that'd be four to five-thirty. By the time we got up to the dining room it was about ready to close, we'd all pile in and eat dinner quickly and then I'd go to the library from six to ten I think was my routine and just really study and then, again the drinking age was eighteen, to reward ourselves, we'd hop in the car and zip downtown for a beer at Tin and Lint or Harold J which was a big bar then. Barclays was pretty big later on. So we'd have a beer, back in bed by 11, go to sleep around 11:30 or so, wake up and do it all over again. And what was your typical nightlife on the weekend? The weekends for me was pretty much when I bartended and waited tables so for me the busiest weekend would be - and some weekends I just played, but mostly I was working - when I was working at the restaurant after class, I'd be there at 4 to set up. I'd wait tables from 4 to 10 and then I'd get out of there and I'd go to one of the bars and then I'd bartend at Harold J's from about 10:30, 11, till about 4 A.M. when they closed and then I'd get back, maybe take a quick nap, shower then I'd go up to West Mountain, teach skiing Saturday and then I'd come back, usually wasn't waiting tables and I'd go back and bar tend again from 11 till 4AM. And then Sunday I'd sleep in. That's a schedule. It was, it was, but when you're young you know, you can do it. Did you do that all four years? Pretty much, you know it changed a little here and there over the years but I pretty much had two or sometimes three jobs, part time, just piecing them together. And do you feel like you were able to learn in your jobs to help academically or things academically to help your jobs at all? Ya know I think so in a bit because it taught you the basics like show up on time, ya know, be responsible, fundamentally do the right thing. So I think so, ya know Skidmore really I thought was a highly ethical place, for a better term, people were trying to do the right thing. Did you study abroad? I didn't. What made you choose to stay on campus? I don't think they had many abroad programs at the time. And my academic schedule was so packed that I don't think, if I remember right, it would have really worked for me to go abroad to get the biology/chemistry requirements and the business requirements that I had I didn't have many electives open. And did you have one go-to best friend? �Hess 9 GH: Ya know, it probably changed, well it did change a bit over time. The first was my head resident a guy named Allan Braunstein, so one of the earliest guys. And he was a great guy and he was classic open door policy so his apartment, the head resident apartment of course was pretty big and it was like Grand Central Station, so he was a great guy and later his brother actually transferred in from BU or BC, I can't recall, and he became a good friend too, Ron Braunstein. HS: What made you so close to these guys? GH: Ron and I played hockey together, just in general they were involved and organizers. Allan Braunstein being a head resident organized everything; we had a water festival at the time, I'm not sure if it still goes on. He was a big skier. We actually had a ski rope tow when I came in fact. So we would take a few quick runs down there, it was pretty small but we would ski over there. And we were just involved in all the antics like going downtown was again a big part of campus life here. Thursday night was one of the more interesting nights, you would go down to a bar that, if I understand right was the one portrayed in Animal House where they showed the guys in the road trip and go into this bar with a couple of girls from a college. Well the guys are coming supposedly from Dartmouth in real life and it's Skidmore girls that they meet up with and the bar that they go into used to be called the Golden Grill and it was a predominately blacks or African Americans during the week if you would. And Thursday night for some reason at midnight - I think the cover became free or they had some beer special that at midnight it would all change, so all the Skidmore people would pour in, which at that time was predominately pretty homogenous white, Caucasian class. And it got to be the point that the bartenders that the Golden Grill - we used to call it the Golden Griddle - would call it white night. And looking back it was probably politically incorrect but it was literally as much as you saw in Animal House. You saw lots of town people who were not Skidmore people dancing with Skidmore girls there were African American guys with white upper middle class Skidmore girls, and it was hysterical, everyone was relaxed and had a lot of fun. HS: And this was an every Thursday night thing? GH: Pretty much. I might have the night wrong at this point but I think so. Tuesday night was Tin and Lint, ten cent or nickel beers; hard to look back on that. Wednesday night, I can't remember what that was. But Thursday night I'm pretty sure was Golden Grill white night and it would just go on from there. HS: And so as you went through the years was there anything you wished you did differently? �Hess 10 GH: I wish I'd spent more time getting to know other people better. You know we were all busy and as I mentioned my schedule kept me pretty busy but I remember feeling a little uneasy about coming back to reunion and thinking 'what was it going to be like' and 'how many old friends will show up'. And some friends show up and that's great, but what I've found out at one of the early reunions was that I actually met people from my class that I barely knew. And I might have known their face but almost didn't know their name or might have known their name, and when I had a chance to finally sit down and talk with them, no surprise they're great people; really smart, really kind, great people. And I thought, 'man I wish I got to know them when I was in college'. HS: And as you were approaching graduation, did you and your friends feel optimistic about post graduation, post college world? GH: I think there was probably both, but I think in a way, for me, I was pretty optimistic. I think we were so dumb we didn't know what we don't know. So I think we felt pretty much like, 'look, we got a great education behind us, we're healthy, we've got the ability and the tools to go out and really do something'. I wasn't quite sure what it was going to be, I didn't know at the time that I would apply to medical school, I didn't do that until years after I came back and worked in admissions so I really didn't know how things were going to turn out but I think I felt optimistic overall. HS: What was it like being on the other side of Skidmore, going from a student to an employee? GH: It was great, it really was great. It was like working at a country club in a way I realized one day, in that I was just a few years older, I came back after I had ski'd for a few years and had one other job. It was still the same dean who had accepted me and she said, 'look, you really know Skidmore, you'll be a great asset et cetera' and I remember the time, because I was so naive that I probably shouldn’t have said this but at the time there were rumors that Skidmore was lowering its standards for men because they wanted to get co-educational more quickly. So I think it was probably inappropriate in the interview me saying, 'I want to be clear though, I'm not gonna accept students if I read their folders, or recommend acceptance, for students who are sub par'. And I was so refreshed, she said, 'no, we are holding men to the exact same standard as women, and we're in this for the long haul and we want to build a thriving long term campus'. So being on the other side of the coin was refreshing in kind of the same sort of ethical environment from professors in doing the right thing and students as well and the same thing I saw in the administration. And you know they weren't �11 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: perfect, none of us are perfect, but they really had their hearts in the right place. So what is it like now seeing that there are 2500 kids up from 2000, it's a 60/40 split, how does that feel looking back from where you're coming from? It does feel great in many ways. I mean we had some special experiences that can't be repeated because it was the time, someone, sometimes it was the ratio that made certain things, I don't think would happen anymore in a positive way. But I think looking now, change is right the only constant in life, and Skidmore has changed for the better. It's academically stronger than when I was here - even though it was a strong school. It's got many many more sports, it's hopefully better endowed, its got tremendous facilities, I think it's got a great vision. SO I'm proud, it's a great college, and I'm very glad I came here and it gave me the tools to be a constant student so thats probably the best tools that it gave me, to be a constant student. That's what I see when I come here, is that students are learning how to learn and be a lifelong student. And if you meet someone today that is thinking about going to Skidmore, what would you tell them? Yea I would certainly recommend it. In fact I've got a daughter in high school, I don't know where she'll go, it'll be her decision, but yea I used to be an interviewer, an alumni interviewer. I think for the right person it's a great school. I think the question a number of people get is, 'what can you do with a liberal arts education?', and my view is the reciprocal, almost what can't you do with a liberal arts education? When you think about, I think it's not so important what you come out of Skidmore with in terms of your degree, but I think if it teaches you to be that constant constructive, inquisitive person to realize that learning doesn't end when you leave your undergrad or even your grad degree, goes on forever. I'm not sure if that was a hyperbole for that example, but I think Skidmore really instilled in me, I have three degrees, two masters and a doctorate and that's partly how I'm hardwired but Skidmore really encouraged me to keep learning. I think I did three or four, four fellowships after that and ya know I think I'll continue to go on learning until they put me in the ground. What are those degrees in? I'm a physician so I have an M.D., and then I have a masters in Health Care Services Research which is kind of a combination of how health care systems work; epidemiology, statistics. And then I have an MBA from Wharton in Health Economics. �Hess 12 HS: And when you were a freshmen did you ever imagine yourself where you are now? GH: Not at all. In fact I really thought seriously about being a full time bartender forever. It seemed liked a great lifestyle and in fact one of the guys from town I worked with who was ancient at the time - he was in his thirties basically said, 'do this for life, it's great. When I go home, I go home' There were a lot of plusses, so I had no idea where I was going to head. HS: Do you have any anecdotes about a time that the liberal arts mentality directly affected how you thought about something that came up while you were getting your masters degree or in your career that had you not had the liberal arts education you would not have been able to approach the same way? GH: Ya know I'm not sure if this is directly on point with kind of your question but ya know maybe. And maybe it's a bit in the way I'm hardwired, but I think Skidmore encouraged or allowed that. So maybe a good example is when I left Skidmore, although I wasn't happy 100% of the time with everything that happened here I really thought my money was well spent, their money was well spent, they gave me a great education, faculty were dedicated to us and teaching was the primary role of the instructors and professors. And when I went to medical school years later which was a lot more expensive and presumably a lot more competitive I really had high expectations that this is going to be the best experience I've ever had. And I would say that I was almost aghast at how poorly I thought the educational system was in medical school. So I guess my point is, it lead me to do two things that were pretty unusual even for my medical school classmates at the time. One was I got a grant from the American Medical Association that allowed me to do almost any constructive project over the summer between my first and second year and I wrote a literature-based review on teaching principles and teaching techniques and I even talked to some of the teachers here, but I wrote a pretty constructive but scathing review of how the medical school educational system was set up and why it was so dysfunctional and why it was a poor set up for teaching our future physicians and the school did not like it to say the least. They literally stuck it in a drawer.When I went to the office to see, and I asked the dean if he had read it and he said, 'yes i did', he pulled out a drawer, showed me the paper and said, 'and this is where it's going to stay'. So I think in part it in encouraged me to constructively question things and not just to complain but to propose constructive solutions and in fact thats what I did, I think, in that review. I think the other thing it did to do was to be a little non conventional, so in medical school I felt the school was so poor in terms of �13 Hess HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: HS: GH: its instruction it was mostly just memorization that I actually got a job full time again, but I got a job as a financial planner and I would pretty much not attend class at medical school for the first two years because it was just memorization and I would go off and do my job, go home at night and memorize the text and come back and take my tests and progress on. Really until your third year when you're seeing patients, yea you could be taking it anywhere. So I think if it wasn't for Skidmore, I'm not sure where I would have really had the confidence to do that. And if you could go back and tell yourself as a freshmen one word of advice, what would it be? Enjoy And did you have any regrets? Other than not meeting more people? Other than that, really not, I think I was one of those really fortunate kids in college that at the time there were some college colleagues who really weren't happy they were just marking their time ya know handing in their homework, their parents sent them here, they felt like they needed to get a degree and ya know they really were just marking time. But now I think I was one of those fortunate, probably the majority who said, 'you kidding? this is incredibly great, I've got a place to sleep every night, I've got great food, I've got a job, I've got lots of friends, I mean what could be better.' It was a great environment I would say 95% of the time. It felt like we were living the dream. And looking back is there anything you're happy has remained the same at Skidmore from then all the way until now? Since I'm not here day-to-day it's a little hard to say yes, for sure, but I get the same spirit of the college is really dedicated to the students and I think that's the primary way it should be. I'm a senior fellow at Penn, I'm the faculty there, I'm a faculty at Drexel College of Medicine and I've been to many institutions for the degrees as I've mentioned, so I've seen other colleges first hand and they don't all operate that way. So I'm really impressed that Skidmore, again, I think is really focused on the students and I think that it's primary mission and how it should be. What about the opposite, is there anything that you wish was not still around? No I don't think there's much I could add? So maybe to wrap up if there's just any last stories that you want to share about something that happened at Skidmore or something that happened downtown? Well you know, there were a lot of fun times that we put it in context because most of the students here were studying hard and doing �Hess 14 academically well but there's no question that we had a social life, um so I guess one of the funnier times I do remember was that when spring vacation would roll around, it was a big deal everybody wanted to take off and either go to Florida or go someplace else to get some sun, it's a pretty cold winter up here, lots of snow. So given that whole feverish environment you'd see on probably a barely 50 degree day with the sun out there would be girls in their bathing suits and guys in their bathing suits behind the dorm, I can't remember the name of the dorm, but trying to lay down on the ground so the wind wouldn't freeze them to death trying to get some base tan before they went to Florida. And then it was usually right before the spring break but it was also for the kids who couldn't afford to go on spring break or just couldn't logistically, we would have these unbelievable beach parties downtown. So the one I remember probably the best was at a bar that's not there anymore called Barclays, it was an old bank that's not a store downtown. And myself and some of the other employees there went out to the dump - the illustrious dump - and we got a bathtub and we found a plug at the hardware store, put it in the bathtub. And a lot of the places had a cover charge at the time and that night cover charge was you brought in liquor and we put in sour mix and some liquor but everybody who came into the door would poor their liquor into the bathtub and of course the concoction got more and more odd and more and more potent as the night wore on. So - and you had to come in beach attire - at the end of the night, it had a very high bar because it was the teller spots, and on top of that bar just spontaneously people put on of the bar stools and people eventually began climbing on top of the bar stool, standing on top of that so you were a good 15 to 20 feet and fortunately with the right crowd, and the right music, the DJ, the people were doing Acapulco bar diving where they would dive off the bar stool into the crowd - people knew you were coming - and people would hopefully catch you before you hit the ground. So it was just a hysterical, between the bathtub concoction and the Acapulco bar diving, it was just one of those parties you just shook your head at and said, you know this will just never be recreated. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sultan, Harry Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hess, Greg, '78 Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Greg Hess, '78 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sultan, Harry, 17 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng,) Description An account of the resource Hess, a double major in chemistry and biology, and minor in business, describes how he came to take ballet classes and starting the Skidmore Hockey Club. He also worked as a ski instructor at West Mountain and Gore. Hess recalls that the letter of recommendation from his ballet instructor, former New York City Ballet prima ballerina Melissa Hayden, helped him get into medical school. Working in downtown Saratoga Springs as a bartender gave him a different perspective on his education. As one of the college's early male students, he understood his role was to help "create the co-educational environment and that included starting things like sports." For Hess, this was part of growing up in the 60s and 70s, with the influence of John F. Kennedy, the Vietnam War and 'making a difference.' Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording alumni ballet hockey team Melissa Hayden oral history sciences Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3aff948070e5ec89a96f823efb4a0bec.jpg dc5224e6215ae7a0cccf896c560e38ee https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c4cf925ee4b65fdec31f5dd5439dd4f6.m4a 217f5d3ac941f72d96b6ff1e87e70336 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bill Ladd Interview https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1a9bb39223da7c413d7200ee47dee61d.pdf d23b0809cfbedf3ce7a4650ec81f5ae3 PDF Text Text Ladd 1 Interview with Bill Ladd by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Saratoga Memory Project, Skidmore College, NY June 1st, 2018 Harry Sultan: Who are you? Bill Ladd: Better question. Like, why don't we try... you know, I have so many stories, just you need to be more direct. HS: Okay, let's just start, if you could introduce yourself. BL: Sure, my name is BIll Ladd, I'm class of '83 and I am a trustee on Skidmore's Board of Trustees. HS: Where are you from? BL: I'm originally from Wayne, Maine, 04284. And I live in, currently, Framingham Massachusetts. HS: What does it feel like to be back at Skidmore? BL: I'm here a lot. I love it, um I was just here two weeks ago for the trustees meeting and commencement but this is nice because I'm with my classmates. And it's a great, we've just have always had a great class. So I love seeing not only my classmates but also the people I encountered my six years on the alumni board as chair of reunions so I would come every year and meet - oh, and I also called every single alum who had a reunion, and that's 29,000 people and I started with my 8th grade teacher Mrs. Jane Chilcott. HS: Even if you come back so often, is there one thing you look forward particularly for coming back to Skidmore? BL: Well first of all, the campus is georgious; but it's always the people, because the people make the college. And from every spectrum of groundskeeping, - they call it campus safety now, but for me it'll always be campus security - to everybody, it's just a great place to be. I mean literally, it changed my life, and I owe Skidmore my life. It's always great. HS: Was there one specific moment at Skidmore that you felt like was really pivotal in changing your life? �Ladd 2 BL: There are so many. Skidmore; I just had breakfast with a couple of my professors and they always raised the bar just a little bit higher than I ever could touch. And they brooked none of my charms which - I can be pretty charming - but um, and I owe them that, because they always taught me to do my very best and in fact, the late and great Phyllis Roth used to say, "is this your very best work?" and I'd have to roll my eyes and just "ugggggh no". And she'd say, "okay, you have until 5 o'clock to make it better", and I'm like 'okay'. And that has lasted me all my life. HS: What kind of classes were you taking with these great professors? BL: Um English, Psychology, History - Tudor History. I just saw my professor, Pat Lee, and literally she's just phenomenal. Susan Cress, um Joanna San Grando, of course I was a theater major so I would say Caroline Anderson, you know instilled in me, real pre-professional standards and yea, I will always be in debt to them. HS: So what was your average week like? BL: (laughs) Psychotic. As a theater major we were just happy to see the sun, cause we were always - if you weren't in class, you were in rehearsal, or getting ready for rehearsal or in performance and it was just non stop, so. There's a story of my senior year, I was just running like a gerbil on a treadmill and I get this letter from Academic Advising and I though 'oh noooo'. And I'm standing there in Case Center staring at Ladd Hall which was named for my grandparents and I'm thinking, 'how do I tell my grandparents I'm getting kicked out my senior year?'. So I sucked it up and I opened it and it said, 'congratulations, you've made dean's list' and I'm like 'get out of here, that can't happen'. And I went up to Academic Advising, and they said 'no, here're your grades' and I'm like, 'how did that happen? I don't know'. So that was a good moment too. HS: So is there any feeling, explain what it must feel like to go back into that place where you spent so much time as a student and know that after all those years you made Dean's List. �Ladd 3 BL: Yea, you know I never thought of myself as a good student. But it was just, every corridor has a memory and I think about how I grew as a person, my classmates, both who are here and not here anymore and just like, I never saw myself as a trustee, and here I am a third generation trustee which is kind of weird; it's kind of like getting kicked up to the grownups table at thanksgiving. You're there and you're like, 'am I really supposed to be here?' but the answer is yes, I am. But it's a really humbling feeling because I served the college and the students and I have the kids, I meet as many kids as I can and I ask them to call me either Bill or Uncle Bill but if you call me Mr. Ladd, I'll slap the taste out of your mouth. C'mon, let's get away from that because when you have your name on a couple of buildings people can get kind of freaked, so I'm like, 'everybody breathe. And unclench. All is well'. I'm just paying it forward. HS: And when you walk around campus all these times you've come back, is there one place that really evokes-- BL: There're so many. Kimball, my freshman dorm and the pantheon of champions, is always wonderful. It's, I just take the time, you know when I drive up onto campus, especially as a trustee they don't allow you to have a whole lot of free time so I just look and take it all in, the green, the quad, it's definitely georgious. I think about, we used to always have to perform in the field house, course now you have a theater - not that I'm bitter - but I spend so much time in Colton House where Alumni Affairs is, and in North Hall where Advancement is and it's just, you know, I'm really honored to be able to come back in the capacity that I am and be the leader that I am, which is something I'm always trying to work with. HS: Do you remember your first night in Kimbal? BL: I do. When I pulled up in my orange Volkswagon Rabbit diesel. The first two people I saw were Jim van Law and Mark Venter and I remember going and meeting my roommate for the very first time who, spoiler alert, teaches here now - Peter McCarthy. Country mouse, city mouse, it was kind of like that. And it was just, yea, we all just kind of gathered and went to the dining hall, which is �Ladd 4 lightyears in difference from the palace that you have now. I don't want to hear nobody complain about no food cause it was not like that back in the day. And we just all coalesced. HS: And did you ever for a second think, as a freshmen back then that this is where you'd be now. BL: (laughs) Oh sure! Not hardly, are you kidding? I was just happy to graduate and then it was like, you know, it was just not even on my radar. Just wasn't. HS: And so other than some theater classes and some english classes, what other activities did you take part in? BL: Do you know anything about being a theater major? Hello? It's um, I remember all the movies on campus, you know they had a lot of horror pictures back in the day like when a stranger calls and the tag line is - the original, not the horrible remake - it's, 'have you checked the children' and so what we would do is, after the movie, we would wait about an hour and then we had extension phones in each of the suites around campus and we would call ya know, Penfield which is an all female dorm and somebody would pick up the phone and we'd say, 'have you checked the children', and you'd hear screaming, and we were like "yes, yes! Good stuff!", we'd get really immature stuff like that which I'm very - I wear with a badge of pride. Dressing up as Frankenfurter for Rocky Horror Picture Show, um it was just a lot of work in theater and going downtown, I wasn't really a bar guy because we didn't have time. You know? But we did go to the Exec which had amazing steak fries, that's where the theater crowd hung out. We went to the rafters - disco, woot woot - good stuff. Yea, but it was wonderful, and we get to talk about these situations with our classmates who are here at reunion which is nice. HS: Did you study abroad? BL: No I did not. I couldn't figure that out in my head; how I could do that and then come back in and get plugged in for the spring shows, if you had left in fall. My son did, he figured that out, but I did not. So, but I lived abroad, it was okay. �Ladd 5 HS: So what was your senior year like, wrapping things up did you have a senior project or senior performance? BL: It was a play, it was you know, coming to grips with, well what're we going to do after graduation and during my - in 1980, I did my first movie while I was still a student here. And back in the day, in the theater department movies were looked down upon - it's all about the theater - well I like movies, I like TV, so just trying to figure out what my next steps were but also, when I graduated I was there with like my dad who was a trustee, my grandmother who was the very first alum to be a trustee and I'm thinking, 'okay'. And of course my amazing class, and it was just trying to be able to put those pieces together and, but I'll tell ya that senior year went by in a snap. When you tell the kids, 'look, just stop, look around, try to be present, remember this moment right now because it'll be gone' and all of a sudden, they're in May and they're walking up in front of you. HS: So if you could talk to your freshmen year self right now, what would you tell him? BL: That's a great question. Um, I don't know, just be you. And thankfully I was, but just relax cause, well I am the first openly gay trustee at Skidmore, and I didn't come out until I was 25. But at that point it wasn't really, there wasn't really the atmosphere to be okay with that. So I would just say, just you know, as my grandmother used to say, 'you don't always have to tell all you know'. Which is one of my, I have a collection of sayings from her. I would just say, you know, 'continue to be you' and, 'you are enough'. That's what I tell my son all the time. Sometimes he listens, sometimes he doesn't. HS: Did you have a core group of friends? BL: I was very blessed to have a lot of friends in varying degrees, I mean different majors and it was just a good group of, I mean I'm still here, one of my sophomore roommates, we were in the only sophomore triple on campus, um two art history majors and a theater major - hilarity ensues - you know, some of the things we did. You know we just collected friends. And um, we were never in the �Ladd 6 popular crowd, and I still couldn't figure out how that happened, but um these many years later we're making new friends, ya know we're not the same people as we were when we were students, thank god. Some of us have grown up and gone very different ways, I mean, I was a theater major, so naturally after 35 years in motion pictures I'm a pastor. Yes. Gods got a sense of humor. But no, that was the great thing, I didn't have time for sports, though I should have played tennis but I couldn't figure out a way to get another couple of hours in the day. Just wasn't gonna work. HS: Could you bring it back to that sophomore year triple for a little bit? BL: Oh god it was great. Well we had a really sucky number, and we were like, okay what do we do? Well there's one way to keep on campus, we should become a triple, we kind of looked at each-other. We all lived in Kimbal, and we said, okay let's do this. And then we had, we got our number, we got our room, and I chose the modular unit, it was my little perch. And it was really terrific. We had such a great time. There's a famous comedy album called, When You're in Love the Whole World is Jewish and we would play that nightly and we would just laugh ourselves to sleep. It was just so much fun. We did have some, there were some romantic exploits of my roommates that were interesting, but you know it was just terrific, and our other roommate who cannot be here, he lives in the next town over from me in Massachusetts and so that's really great. Yea we were just in, they were like "they put you three in a triple?". Well that's what triple means, three. Um, and it's just the stuff of legend, we would terrorize parents during parents weekend by opening up a window and going, 'Mommy? Mom, I'm lost' and watching the, ah so good. So naturally the ministry called. It's one of those things, why did they put them together. And 35 years later, we are still very close so that's terrific. HS: So what was a normal Friday night for you? BL: No such thing, they all kind of blended. Are you in rehearsal, okay you go through classes and then literally you had like maybe five or ten minutes to gobble down �Ladd 7 your meal and then run back to rehearsal and then, and that's, I do have a bad eating habit because of Skidmore. I can eat a meal in five minutes which is not always good. But, yea it's like 'what's going on this weekend? What're the movies? Anything good?". Or sometimes we'd drive out and, you know, to the old Pyramid Mall and see horror pictures like the Fog - that was really great - and the original Friday the 13th, you know, always fun. American Warewolf and yea, it was just, kind of one of those moments. Back in the day, McDonalds used to have the shamrock shakes and we would go downtown cause thats where McDonalds was, and get a shamrock shake and would say, "look! it's the exorcist" and go "bleaah". Again, not the high mark of taste in humor, but we were young and stupid. Um, that would be, we would make our own fun but it was, we spent a lot of time on campus ya know, the whole bars and drinking thing just wasn't mine. HS: So did you ever interact with the locals and the local businesses? BL: Always, cause you know, when you did go downtown that's just who you were with and coming from a very small town you really don't want to show yourself off not to be a good neighbor, let's just put it that way. And in fact, Steve Sullivan who's class of '78, he'd graduated before but he was always very connected to Skidmore and owns Old Bryan Inn, and Longfellows and connected me to the folks in town and so I just always looked at Saratoga as an extension of Skidmore and really great relationships. And I still do, I really love coming back, I think Saratoga is just an amazing place. HS: Are there any establishments that you went to in college that you look forward to coming back to now BL: Well a lot of them are closed. Theres The Parting Glass, always was great. Of course Old Bryan Inn, hello, nat'(urally). But a lot of the, Mrs. Londons, a lot of the places have since gone by the wayside because that's what happens as time passes. And oh, sorry OBI still has the best french onion soup. Old Bryan Inn. It's in a little crock and it's got that molten cheese over the top, forget it that's just, �Ladd 8 forget it. That's all I have to say to my classmates, they're like "oh my god, so good". HS: Is there anything, outside of academics that really stuck with you as a life lesson that stuck with you from being at Skidmore? BL: I have to go back to 'Is this your very best work'. Because, in the industry, motion picture industry, no one is going to ask you that. It is that personal kind of standards and scholarship that you always carry. And you know if something is your very best. You know if you've kind of shined something on and it's just not right. And of course I would pair that with what my grandfather said, 'there's two ways of doing something, the easy way and the right way' and in this world you have your word and your name. No one will ever ask you that, but you know. And so all those cobbled together and that has lasted me all these years because it's just, you are yourself and if you don't hold yourself to higher standards, no one else will. HS: Is there one thing from back during Skidmore that you wish you could change? BL: Yea. I wish I hadn't contemplated suicide my freshmen year. It was a very dark place you know, being in the closet, in fact this is the last thing - I don't have many more closets to come out of - but I just talked about this in the latest board of trustees meeting, and I did. And Skidmore saved my life, I mean literally my house counselor, my RAs got me into counseling and that actually started the process of me coming out. But I wish I hadn't had done that, um I wish I hadn't pretended but that's, that's where I was, and that's where the country was at the time so now, thankfully that served me to be first of all, me, and like I said, the first to be openly gay trustee which I don't really think much about and it's like, "oh, that's right, I guess I am" but like, well you know, they look like me, and I'm like "well you know, looks can be deceiving" and it allows other people to tell their stories. So in a roundabout way, I hope I've answered your question. Something like that. �Ladd 9 HS: Do you think Skidmore today is more of a safe place for young men and women to be themselves? BL: I think it is. You know, that's a journey, it's not like a destination, once we're there, we're there, because as the world changes you know, this environment has to change in being reflective of that change and having a place where people can be themselves authentically 100% and that's a goal and it's a continuing process that the trustees are very aware of - excuse me - and the college is very aware of. Yea, it's remarkable. HS: And is there anything you hope does change with Skidmore? BL: I hope we get more endowment money? Sorry, just you know. I want to see - I'm not a big fan of the word diversity, because I think it's kind of limiting, or like the word multicultural, I like the word reflective - the reflective of the world, because I want to be in that world, I don't want to be in just a very anglo-centric environment, cause frankly it bores the teeth out of me and that's not where I've lived. I've lived in the world, and I like the world being reflected. In fact Lynda Jackson Chalmers and I were sitting next to each-other at commencement and said, 'ya know' she's class of, oh golly, nineteen seventy-, I want to say nineteen seventy-one or seventy-three, and she said, 'I remember when, you know I first came on the board, there were maybe twelve students of color and as we sit there and as we sat in this commencement - which was cold, and rainy, and wet - we had lots of time to just huddle together and there was just wave after wave of children - sorry, they're children - they're grownups, in quotes. But kids from Asia and African countries and it was just so enlightening and heartening that it's like, imagine, and then she goes "I don't even count anymore because there are so many kids" and I just said, 'ya know, imagine the courage it takes to not just go to a different state, go to a different country or continent. And these kids from China and the Asian countries, as well, and that's very in-strata of me, the Asian countries as well as the African countries'. All I had to do was come from Arizona and look what they've done and look who they are, and we were just sitting there �Ladd 10 welling up with pride. And also humility and gratitude that these kids felt safe enough to come to Skidmore and just rock the place, so it was a very big moment - still we were freezing to death, but there we go. HS: And when you were going up on that stage to graduate, what was the world like that you were going into BL: Let's see, '83? Ronald Reagan. It was the early 80s and it was a surreal moment. You know materialism, at least in my life, it was all about stuff and achievement rather than being the person and it took me a while to figure that out so I just, ya know, right after I graduated I started getting work on All My Children, which was a soap opera back then. But it wasn't about doing good acting work, and I didn't get that until later and I went, 'Oh, okay', I was ill-prepared but that was because of my own development. Yea, it was a different time but I'm glad I did it. HS: Was there, amongst your friends, was there general optimism about the prospect of post college? BL: I don't really, I think we all just though, sure we can do anything cause you know when you're young and arrogant, 'hey, you know, I can do that'. And that's what we did. We were just talking about that actually last night, there were two classmates of mine who were making $11,000 out of college and they're one dream was to make their age in thousands and you know, we just thought well we can do that and it was, you know, I guess that's kind of the Skidmore motto, 'hell, I went to Skidmore, I can do anything' or that's always been my motto. But you figure it out, and I think that's um, there was the optimism. There certainly wasn't the divisiveness that is, well back in the old days you know Russia was a communist country, not colluders anyway. Just, things have changed and its a different environment now. HS: So if you meet someone today who's thinking about going to Skidmore BL: Well yea I'll interview them. Yea. HS: What are some of the things, if they ask you "should I go", what's your boiler plate �Ladd 11 BL: I don't really have a boilerplate. I grill them pretty hard because I love this college, look ya know, if you're someone who wants to be a member of this world, a conscious member and who's willing to take risks in their education to really stretch themselves, then this is the place to go. If you're looking for a backup school, bye bye, no no. You know just go somewhere else. But if you really want to be a stuck in citizen, then this is where you want to be, cause it will change you in ways you cannot foresee and you can't study for it. You can't take a test for it. And just get ready, cause you think 'yup, this is what I'm going to do, I'm going to business school, business school, business school', and then ding, you're over here doing something else, 'yes, I'm in environmental science, how did that happen?' This is being prepared to being a conscious member of this planet and I think it'll help to be, to have that liberal arts education because people change careers, not jobs, at least nine times and baby you gotta be able to pivot cause if you ain't got pivot you got diddly and that's the nicest thing I can say. And that's been the hallmark of my life because of all the different careers that I've had and here, ya know, when I think I can't be surprised anymore (laughs) I called the ministry, 'are you fricking out of your mind', but you have to have, like all those skills? Trust me I use my education a lot. HS: Can you give me an anecdote about how Skidmore has affected not just your life in theater but your life as part of the ministry? BL: Oh absolutely, you have to be able to write. In fact I just finished my ordination paper after a year and I defend it on June 21st so, you know - include prayers here - but you have to be able to write and tell a story and that goes into crafting a sermon, and mine are not only crafted pretty well but are under 15 minutes. You go in, you make your point, you get the hell out, but also it looks at fundraising, stewardship. Again, it's all about storytelling, how you tell that story. I also used my filmmaking tools for not only for Skidmore, but also for the church. Because it's about, not only reaching out to the church community but also to the wider community. Again, it's story, it's communication, it's also being conscious of your �Ladd 12 environment and in the world environment, psychology, sociology, economics, publicity, vision, you know, and empathy, all those, it's just like, I use my education every day. HS: I'm trying to be mindful of the time, but do you have any last just profound great, unbelievably best stories from Skidmore? BL: I think that'll have to be in our volume 2, because I have a lot of stories. Some I can share, and some I cannot. HS: Can you share one? BL: It's like, 'be funny!' oh thanks, thanks for that. Um well, first day I walked on thet set of Ghost Story, I was an extra with some lines that eventually got cut, I was scared ridiculous. And then, cause it was January, it was twenty-below, yea, and I'm like 'okay', just trying not to throw up and there is this famous actor, producer, director, John Houseman standing outside and I have my first scene with him. And I'm like, I wanted to die. And I just said, 'um Mr. Houseman, my name is Bill Ladd, and I'm going to be working with you today, and it's a true honor' and he kind of gave me a side look and I went 'oh crap, I'm done' and I said, 'I'm a theater student here' and I said 'I'm a very devout member of your history and what you have done.' He says, 'Like?' I said, 'well you produced The Bad and the Beautiful with Lonna Turner and Kirk Douglas' and he said, 'Really?' and I said, 'yea I'm a huge fan' but also 'Mercury Theater, it's I really admire you' and so it put a big smile on his face, the ice was broken, cause you know frost was forming on our limbs, and we sat down for the next couple of hours until they set up the shot and started to work. And that's how I didn't have a heart attack on my first day in motion pictures. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sultan, Harry Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ladd, Bill, '83 Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Bill Ladd, '83 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sultan, Harry, 17 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng,) Description An account of the resource Ladd, '83, was a theater major who studied with Carolyn Anderson. He hails from Wayne, Maine, and currently lives in Framingham, Massachusetts. He recalls faculty including Phyllis Roth and Pat Lee pushing him to excel, acting in a movie while still in college, and being the third generation in the Ladd family to serve as a Skidmore College trustee. He notes that he is the first openly gay trustee at the College. His social life included friends, movies at the old Pyramid Wall, and alum Steve Sullivan, '78, who owns the Old Bryan Inn and Longfellows. Ladd also opens up about the one thing he would change about his time at Skidmore, was contemplating suicide during his first year of College. He also describes how Skidmore helped him accept himself and has become a safer place for "young men and women to be themselves." Now finishing a transition to a career in ministry, Ladd talks about how the writing and storytelling skills honed at Skidmore have served his work in theater and now for the church. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording alumni Helen Ladd Joanna Zangrando oral history; Pat Lee Peter McCarthy Phyllis Roth Skidmore College Susan Kress; Kimball Dormitory https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/745f0730cd37fb8cb837fcdfdee36694.jpg 121f376bf3035819e8d876a6da25f8b5 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/929d62ce27166cad1c83b8565713c1e0.m4a 8c5c0771aa9aca275334946c61ba3731 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/72884b2f97d7e29e264c8bee0b1140d4.jpg 6996ce0101f9959b285b20315192948a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/86ac753ae12344d373f4f886fba59b22.pdf 3982fb6ceeb301292b73e94aca4f657f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Blodget-Holberton, Anne Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording Title A name given to the resource Interview with Anne Blodget-Holberton, 73 alumni oral history Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/74b9baeccc5e0fd9426516fa3c5d44be.jpg c46c38cc106a037a6b33dfcffd42e8b8 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/96f76eaa5d4f1d8846cd96582ada1323.m4a 521c96a16d0d85f70c5cf6a8a2c84e2e https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/02fac18fad0022bf75f2c5cd7f205938.pdf eba65f8d0bd8f749c309fa1529ea60b7 PDF Text Text 1 Title Jacob DeLeon Navarrete Interview Date June 2nd, 2018 Language Eng Interviewer Emily Rizzo Location Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Original Format Audio Recording Duration 39:13 Tags Alumni , Oral history , Skidmore College , Tour guide , Admissions �2 ER: So, you can you say your full name and your graduating year and your major or minors? JV: Sure, my name is Jacob DeLeon Navarrete. I graduated in 2008. I was a double major in psychology and history. I focused on existential psychology with Sheldon Solomon and I worked with Jennifer Delton in American History, mostly focusing on the civil rights era all the way back to colonial period. ER: Wow that's amazing. And where are you from? JV: Dallas, Texas. ER: Dallas, Texas. Wow I always wanted to take an existential psychology class with Sheldon and I never got to fit it in. JV: Yeah, he's... I got really lucky because he was my advisor when I first started as a student. So I took LS1 with him, I don't know if you guys still do LS1 or not, but he was my LS1 teacher and I really just connected with him. At the time I wasn't going to be a psychology major. I had come in interested in doing pre-med but quickly learned that other peoples' blood freaks me out so being a doctor was not necessarily the best path for me. And I had always been very interested in human behavior and what drives human choices and an intersection of psychology and philosophy seemed really cool and anyone who’s ever seen Sheldon Solomon knows that he’s a captivating person. So it was kind of hard to not have chosen that. When I think about the person that I was coming to college and then having the opportunity to engage with such interesting minds, I was very influenced by those elements more so than a real passion for the subject matter, that grew as I began to dig deeper into the actual academic component of it. ER: Wow that's really great. I guess since we already started talking about it... Can you talk about what it was like being head tour guide? �3 JV: Oh. So I... When I got to Skidmore I really didn't know what to do. Being from Texas, not knowing anyone here, I tried very hard to make sense of the community and that meant I did a lot of activities I tried to learn where buildings were, and I saw an opportunity to be a tour guide. They made the first option available to first year students in second semester. So I applied for it and I was really excited about it. I was hired as a tour guide and there was something about being able to share my passion for Skidmore that I really enjoyed. And so, I was a tour guide pretty much in the earliest moment possible. And because I was from far away I spent some summers on campus and I was a summer tour guide. And by the time I was a Junior I had been hired as one of the co-head tour guides. And I spent my junior and my senior year running the tour guide program. It was really interesting to see that element of higher education because it wasn't about me. It was about these other people. And I think a lot of students view tour guiding as a job. And it is, it's a great way to make some extra cash, have an opportunity to pick up a couple skills if you haven't already. But very few people I think approach it as community service. And that's kind of how I approached it. Don't get me wrong, enjoyed the pay check, very much appreciated the work. But I loved it because I was giving students the opportunity to see the institution the way that I did. And I knew it wasn't going to be right for every student, but the student who it was right for, they would fall in love. And it was also really cool to see students come in as first year students, during my third or fourth year, who I had given a tour to and who really responded to the way Skidmore was presented to them. So, it was a lot of fun and I really enjoyed being able to share my experience in the community with people who probably would have never thought to ask me about Skidmore because I don't think I represent the average Skidmore student, particularly not in 2000. ER: Wow I have so many questions. So, you loved Skidmore a lot? JV: Oh yeah, I was a student senator right out of the gate, they always have the three spots, at least my time it was three spots, available for freshman students. So I ran. The funny thing was only three of us ran and I had the lowest number of votes. It was really interesting. �4 ER: Yeah. JV: But I got really involved with student senate. I was the very last coordinator of diversity affairs before there was a vice president of diversity affairs, that was the person who followed me. But I eventually realized that student government was not what was right for me. And that's when I shifted from having my hands in a bunch of things to focusing on working in the admissions office and as I got older I just spent less time doing things that were for the sake of doing it and more time focused on the things I was really interested in. And student government was fun, but I think it's best done by the people who want to devote energy in ways that I don't think I have the patience for, in a certain sense. But tour guiding is... the patience that you have to have is a very different kind of patience. ER: What do you mean by that? JV: So the patience you have to have for student government I would say is the same for politics. ER: Yeah. JV: You have to suffer everyone. No one is wrong. Everyone's opinion and perspective is important because you're representing everyone. And so, student government being representative of government, you have to listen you have to take into consideration things that you don't believe, people that you don't agree with. And that's great that we have individuals that are willing to put themselves through that. I think the saying is, "People who are willing to suffer fools." As a tour guide, you suffer fools in a completely different way. Your goal is to help people see what you see. And for a lot of tour guides, they just lie. I'm not saying that happens at Skidmore per say, but just in general you go to a museum they're going to spin the best story possible. But you don't have to. A really good tour guide doesn't lie. They find ways to respond to your question in truth, but hopefully, if they're perceptive enough, they �5 know what you're really asking and can come around to address how the school handles that issue. When parents ask questions about drinking, what they're really asking about is safety. No parent thinks that kids don't drink in college. It happens. It's just what happens in the United States. So, the real question is, "Is my child going to be safe while they're participating in activities? Are they going to feel like they're forced to participate in activities? So a tour guide who isn't thinking that far ahead will say, "There's no parties." Or, "Nothing is under age." Or, "People get in trouble." But that's not true. A smart tour guide would respond that Skidmore is the type of place where students can make whatever choices that they feel comfortable making, that Skidmore provides a really safe environment to do so, there are tremendous amounts of opportunities for students who don't want drugs or alcohol, all sorts of programming... That's how you respond to that question. You don't say people don't party. You don't say everyone parties. Or whatever the easiest answer is. And that's just one example of why I think I was much more interested in being a tour guide than being in student government. ER: Yeah definitely. Yeah, I think tour guides sell Skidmore as more diverse than it actually is. Because Skidmore includes in its numbers, in its percentages, international students, everyone who's international is counted in the diversity percentage, which doesn't make sense because not everyone who's in the international percentage... some of them are white and they're thrown into that percentage to make it seem more inclusive than it is. So it's like, "Are you lying? Are you giving that percentage?" But I think some tour guides try to give that number and pretend... or try to tell this lie. JV: I think that's also a reflection of the difference between the institution internally and the institution externally. So, I ended up being an admissions officer here for three and a half years. So I was a tour guide and then got hired as an admissions officer. And I think when institutions utilize percentages to craft a certain narrative, it's usually a reflection of the industry more than an individual office. It's very common for schools to include international students in their diversity numbers because colleges try to have the most broad definition of diversity. And that �6 can be problematic sometimes when people are really asking, "How many white people are here?" Right? And I think it's fair to ask that question, versus how diverse are you? Because diversity is a cop out word. Right? You can have diversity with a bunch of white men. There can be a lot of diversity in the way you think, how you see the world, right? So including international students in the diversity number makes sense if what you're saying is, we have a lot of different people from different experiences and walks of life. But we also know that that's not what people are really asking when they say diversity. And so that's the internal versus external tension. It's the same thing that when we use graduation rates. We say it out of six years but it's really out of four. But four isn't as nice so everyone does it out of six. ER: What's the out of six? JV: So most four-year graduation rates are actually out of six years. ER: Oh oh. JV: Yeah. But they factor in taking breaks, going abroad, switching your major. ER: That's okay. JV: Right but people think it's the four-year rate. ER: Yeah. JV: And it's not the four-year rate it's the six-year rate. That's what the government does for a degree. So being an admission officer gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about how colleges function as institutions relative to how they function for students. And it gave me a really good view into how a class is made. And I think a lot of students have a completely misguided notion as to how they got into college. I think if you were to ask the average �7 Skidmore student, "How'd you get into college?" "Oh yeah I worked hard. I did well in school." It's like, "No that's not why you got into Skidmore. It isn't. You fit exactly what the institution was looking for at that year." And at a place now where they're taking 25% of the students who apply, it's even more so, "We need this particular subset of people to have the class that we're looking for." You didn't get in, it's more of a reflection, not of your ability or not of your strengths, it's, "You just didn't have what we were looking for this year. If you apply next year, you might get in. If you applied the year before, you might get in. It's just this year. There were a lot of girls with brown hair and blue eyes who played soccer and were violinists. Sorry." That's the flip side of access. Everybody's going to apply. That's what makes it much harder to get in. Admissions officers are humans. They're not machines. Some students are just going to stand out to them. So, it was an interesting experience to learn. It helped me better contextualize myself instead of thinking, "Oh I have this because..." I could step back and say, "Well, there are probably plenty of other people who were just as good or whatever the reason." I'm a college counselor now, among other things, and so having that knowledge in the back of my head really helps when I talk with students who don't get into their schools of choice. It's not a reflection of you, it's a reflection of the school. ER: Yeah so, I wanted to ask, that's actually a good leeway, what are you doing now? JV: So right now, I am the associate head of upper school at the Auckland School in Dallas Texas. It's a Montessori and international baccalaureate school, educating students from 18 months to 18 years. And we actually just had our first graduating seniors. So the schools been around for over 50 years but had stopped at 6th grade for a long time and stopped at 8th grade about 15 years ago. That's when they opened the middle school and so we opened the upper school four years ago. And so I handle all the college counseling, student life, and now as the associate head, pretty much everything. I'm just very deeply involved with what goes on. And I feel very happy to say that I had a student who was accepted to Skidmore. She didn't choose to attend but it was nice to have that be one of our first seniors apply and then be admitted to Skidmore. So that's what I do. �8 ER: Wow that's amazing. Yeah it feels like, from what you've said, everything that you've done at Skidmore helped you get to... JV: Where I am? ER: And then your admissions position at Skidmore and now you're really a... leadership role... JV: There's no doubt that my time at Skidmore was fundamental for who I am as a person. I just finished my masters degree at Stanford and the most interesting element of that was how often my undergraduate experience was really useful. And I think that my belief in creative thought mattering has really been an important perspective when dealing with problem solving, dealing with people. Just remembering that you have to be creative. And usually when you remember to be creative it reminds you to be patient. And that has been really valuable for me as a person. Skidmore has really been critical to the person that I am. I wouldn't say that it defines me, but I also can't think of myself without it. So I wouldn't be surprised if I find myself with a job here again as my last job or something. Like I really did love my time here and I love what they do for students. And that's why I do what I do, because I had a great college experience and I want that for every other person. I want every human to have the time of undergraduate experience that I did. Because if you had asked me at 17 if I'd be doing what I'm doing now... No, not at all. A 17-year-old Jacob would look at 32 year old Jacob and say, "What are you doing with yourself? Working at a high school? With teenagers?" But 32-year-old Jacob can look back at 17 year old Jacob and say "You just don't know enough about life. You don't know enough about you yet." And my time at Skidmore helped me learn so much about myself. Because there's something about the community and the campus that encourages you to explore internally and externally. ER: Something about the campus? �9 JV: I think that the combination of the campus layout, all the trees, the green spaces, the Northwoods, the general approach to student development and student learning, mixed with... at least this was my time, I can't speak for Skidmore today but... When I was a student there was some sort of open mindedness, of not necessarily non-judgmental, but much more flexible with what you chose to do. A certain unspoken encouragement to figure out what you wanted to do and to be okay with that. I will also admit that in 2004, the entering class, the standards shifted dramatically from the class of 2005. Just from an admissions stand point., the selectivity was dramatically different. So a lot of us that graduated in 2008, we feel like we're the last class of the old Skidmore, before Skidmore became a place where everybody wanted to go, and no one got in. I think my freshman year, our acceptance rate was something like 40% and now it's like 20%, in ten years, 15 years. That's a really big difference and that says a lot about the type of student that goes here. And I don’t think that that shift, I hope not, has not impacted that desire, that curiosity, that openness to explore yourself, to figure things out. The number of people I saw who came in Skidmore one way and left Skidmore a very different way, but so authentically... I don't know if that was just the common college growth that happens everywhere... I don't think so. I think what happens here is very special. And places like Skidmore... I don't think Skidmore is the only place on the planet that does it. I think there's something about a liberal arts college on a beautiful campus with faculty who really want to engage in the learning and development of students. That produces something special. But I think you add that to Skidmore's history as an all-women’s institution, Skidmore's history as an art school, Skidmore's history as an institution believing in creative thought. I think all of that together allows for that internal exploration, almost a permission to explore yourself. And then externally I think that marketing itself to students who are looking for something different it does produce more opportunity to dig. And maybe not be so afraid about it. Because I feel like a lot of students at giant universities, they kind of wake up and realize they’re not the person they want to be. I’m not saying that doesn't happen at Skidmore, but for the kids that that does happen here, there's more opportunity for you to be like “Oh okay I’m going to find some new people.” I just don’t know if that happens in schools that are more anonymous. �10 ER: I think it's been changing, a lot of people have been coming for the business department. JV: It's very famous. ER: Yeah and I don’t know if it was the same when you were here...? JV: It was just starting. Because I think also... I think a big factor was Fall 2008, the economy crashing, Leeman Brothers, all of that., changes the world. when I was a senior in college you didn’t have to have a job, you didn’t have to know what you were doing. I had a summer job. I fell into the admissions office. That was normal 10 years ago. Now, if you don’t have everything lined up in January you're completely screwed. So I also think the changes in the students coming to Skidmore is a reflection of both how strong the business department actually is but also because you can do business here and art and it’s not going to pull you one way or the other. A lot of other schools that have a business school or business program the other things are secondary, they just are, but here it’s not. And so I do think that that’s probably part of why that shift has been happening but hasn’t completely over thrown the college. Because I think in the world we live in today, it could be even more of a business orientation. But I think it’s the strength in music, the strength in visual art, the strength in dance, the strength in the social sciences, the strength in the foreign languages, the strength in English. There's so many quality nonprofessional programs here, and I mean that in relation to professional degrees like an MBA or a Doctor of Social Work or a doctor of exercise. that’s what I mean by professional as opposed to the more general term, allows for that dichotomy and the slowing down of the change, because you do see a lot of liberal arts colleges, there’s a big shift. you see a lot of liberal arts colleges just get eaten up bigger universities because people don’t see the value anymore because people don’t see the value anymore. ER: Yeah, I hope that it doesn't change, I'm worried. JV: It's fair to be worried I think. �11 ER: Is there any memory that has come up as you've been here? JV: I mean that was the crazy part. Myself and a friend who came up, when we first got to campus we just walked around. And that’s what happened for 45 minutes, just like "Oh my god this" and "Oh my god that." And I think a lot of stuff occurred, a lot of memories, a lot of crazy memories, but I think the one that probably shocked me the most was., or surprised me by how overwhelming it was, was actually something that I didn’t even remember until I was reliving the experience. So as a psychology and history major almost all my classes were in Tisch (Learning Center). I was a Tisch kid. I was always in Tisch. I called it the “ology building” when I was a tour guide, even though history isn’t an ology, and I would literally say that, "although history isn't an ology." There is the walkway out of Tisch leading to Palamountain (Hall) where the early childhood center is, right there’s that L covered walkway and all the honey suckle. The smell of the honey suckle got me. Because I forgot how much that smell was constant, how strong that smell is, and how often I smelled it. In context to walking from one building to the other. I was frozen when the smell hit my nostrils and all of these memories just washed over very quickly. Particularly I used to do observation in the early childhood center. I was a sophomore and I was taking a child development class. Because at the time I thought I was going to be more focused on childhood development but not at all, I ended up not doing that at all. But that was a really interesting semester for me because I had never engaged with children, and so the combination of the smells and just how much that time influenced me, one way or the other. So I think that was probably the biggest memory. It was also just to go walk around and see which professors were still here and which ones are not still here. It was also nice to see there was more diversity in the faculty, I can tell there’s not much now. but when I was here there was none. I didn't have a single male of color teach me at Skidmore. Maybe I had one female of color teach me. I knew there was a male psychology professor, Hassan Lopez, who I didn’t have until my final year. He was actually the first male of color that I had I’m pretty sure. I could be wrong about that, but it was so few that... but then looking around and seeing that there were a handful more teachers of color, said something. now, I’ll be honest, two percent of the population has a PhD. so were already looking at a very small section of �12 people. when you look at the cross section of education, there just aren’t that many PhDs that are black, or Mexican, or anything that isn’t white. so that’s not necessarily a reflection of Skidmore, but Skidmore could work harder at really finding diverse faculty if they wanted to. so, there’s always a tension one way or the other. But it was nice to see new faces, it was nice to see new scholarship from people who are not the standard professorial type. that was really cool to see. ER: Yeah Skidmore needs to work on its retention. JV: Yeah it does. ER: What else would you like to see improve at Skidmore? JV: I love this place. I just want to see Skidmore not be so slow about what it does. I loved seeing the signs on campus letting visitors know, this is renewable, or this is sustainable, or we have this goal. I saw the goal of 25% food sustainability by 2025. why isn’t it 50%? why isn’t it 75%? obviously that’s ambitious and it would require a lot of thoughtful changes, but Skidmore is the type of place in my opinion where there are so many creative people here that there’s no reason why they shouldn’t be pushing themselves harder. I would love to see the administration push back on some of the faculty who are not as tolerant as they think they are. that’s one thing that I do know is true. I have kept enough in touch that there have been some issues in town with students of color and I was very disappointed in how the administration responded to that. I was very disappointed to see that there was not a 100% defense of the students. Period. The students were students. Even if they were wrong which they weren’t. but even if they were wrong, I feel like if they were rich white students, it would have been a whole different response. and I don’t think that anyone made that decision deliberately, but that’s what bias is. you don’t see that you would treat someone else differently because of some immutable factor. If they were rich white kids, "Oh we have to be careful about the parents. the politics involved...". well why isn’t that same consideration given to a poor brown or black kid? �13 they have just as much value as a person right? and again I’m not saying that this is Skidmore only, this is the world we live in, but I think Skidmore could do a better job. particularly since they have a commitment at least in words, to bring in diversity, to bring in a variety of people. like I loved seeing that the opportunity program is now one big unit. Because when I was a student it was HEOP and AOP, no one really knew what AOP was, all the HEOP kids were clumped together because they were from New York City. And it was nice that they were on campus, but they were completely ostracized from everyone else. No one intended to do that but that’s what it was. And so as a student of color who was in neither program, it was weird. So now to see that all the opportunity programs are all together, there’s a whole place for them. That just made me feel like okay this is the kind of action that I want to see. Why did it take so long? I was sad to see that some of the administrators who have left, why they’ve left… That made me kind of sad. But I think it is important to remind the Skidmore community that you can’t rest on your laurels. That just because you are better in a lot of ways than other institutions that doesn’t mean that you get to slow down, that doesn’t mean you get to set targets that everyone else should set. That I’m disappointed by. But not disappointed enough to not care, but just be like, “Hey.” Like you know when you get disappointed in your friends who don’t live up to their potential? That's kind of how I feel sometimes. That we could be pushing ourselves more. We could be doing more. We could be having more courageous conversations with ourselves, with each other, around these sensitive issues. Like it was great to see a Black Lives Matter thing in Case Center. That’s great. But do the Black lives here actually feel like they matter? Because there was a time when I was a student where a lot of black lives didn't feel like they mattered as much. I never really felt that. But just because I don’t doesn’t mean it’s not true for other people. So that’s why I would say I would want to push Skidmore, particularly in a place like Saratoga Springs that's very different than the people who come to school here. We could be fostering more education, more awareness. I don’t mean tolerance in the sense of just accepting. But I really mean like, “You have wrong beliefs because you’re not educated in the right things so let’s provide you more education.” Let’s give you more opportunities to step outside your comfort zone. Because people believe things �14 because they don’t have anything else to counter that belief. They have no experience, no exposure. There is so much here that could make Saratoga better and they don’t do enough. ER: We really don’t engage in Saratoga. JV: And I will admit, I know enough to know that the town doesn’t really want them to. But that doesn’t mean you accept it. That doesn’t mean you say, "Okay you don't want us then fine." There are enough educated, thoughtful, powerful, rich people in this community, Skidmore's community. They could be on seats in the board in town. They could be actively engaged in changing Saratoga. But they don’t want to. So that’s what I mean by pushing more. ER: And it's even true for pushing faculty more. Faculty and staff showed up though... JV: That must mean they want to try. I feel like, the one thing that I want younger people like you to hear, because I was where you were at some point, I'm on my way to that other point, young people are impatient, you are. Because for you, you see the way... It’s like "This is how it should be! Why is it not?" And that's great, never lose that. But just remember that as you get older, you begin to understand why things are older, that doesn’t just defy it. But I guess try to find the wins. Because the story you just said, makes me think, "Okay, at least the staff want to engage." Maybe enough kids didn't come, but the fact that there were a lot of staff members who came, that says that there's a willingness to have the conversation and that’s huge. And my fear is that young people, the younger people, haven’t lived enough to recognize, haven't lived enough to recognize how much it is to get someone to come to the table. And that open mindedness is a lot more difficult than you think. I have found a lot of progressives and liberals are some of the most closeminded people I’ve ever met because they think they’re right. And I’ll admit I use to be like that when i was young, I was like, " I’m right. Why would I be openminded? I’m open-minded because I’m right!" Actually, if you think that you're right, you’re not open-minded. So let’s talk about... Do we really want open-minded-ness? Is it actually a good thing? Or do we want closemindedness that’s correct? I don’t know I’m just saying that it’s important that young people just recognize that experience does dictate how you see the �15 world. And even in my own job, I had seven things I wanted to do this year, I got three of them done and I learned, I was like, "You know what? I’m going to be proud of those three things because everybody else is super proud of them. I’m the only one that’s mad that I didn’t get to do all seven. And my boss was like, "Jacob, we only have room as people, for three things a year. You want to do more than 3 things? take away something," just, that’s something that I’ve had to learn and grow with. But don’t ever lose the passion. just, almost forgive yourself as you move through it. Because you’re going to get a point where you’re going to be 30 and you’re going to realize, "Oh there's so much more." And that’s not to excuse slowness, that’s not to excuse behavior, but I think it does help from becoming a state of despair. I feel like a lot of young people after the election were in a state of despair. And rightfully so it was a despairing moment for a lot of people. But it’s been almost two years now. were in the second year, right? were still here, were alive, people are fighting. it’s an awareness now and that’s valuable. That’s more valuable than if she had won and people didn’t know that they lived in the world they live in. And so being able to have this dialogue about Skidmore, if nothing else, the people who are interested in making change at Skidmore listen to all the different people have all these different opinions and stories and histories about Skidmore, if you really want to make it a better place, listen to what people have said. Don’t just take what they’re saying as truth, but listen to the whole thing. What’s the points that seem to be sticking out? And how does that relate to what the students right now are saying? What’s the parallel? What’s the dissonance? It’s hard to be a leader. It’s easy to want to lead. It’s very hard to actually lead. But I’m excited to see how Skidmore plays out over the next 10 years, see what kinds of students come here, what changes happen, what changes don’t happen. Because there’s some things what just shouldn’t change, but it shouldn’t not change simply because they don't want it to. There should be a reason that it stays the same. If you can’t come up with that reason, then it’s got to change. And I think any alum would be okay with it changing for the right reason. So I’m excited to see how it all plays out. ER: I’m excited to see what you do. �16 JV: Oh well thank you. That's very nice. ER: Thank you so much. JV: My pleasure. ER: This was really great. JV: Absolutely. I enjoyed it. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Navarrete, Jacob Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 39:13:00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Description An account of the resource Navarrete, '08, from Dallas, Texas, graduated with a double major in psychology and history, focusing on existential psychology with Sheldon Solomon and American History with Jennifer Delton. He started working with Prof. Solomon in LS1 (Liberal Studies 1, an interdisciplinary course formerly required of all students), and soon began work as a tour guide. Eventually running the tour guide program, Navarrete both made connections on campus and was able to share his passion for the college. He joined SGA as a student senator in his first year, and was the last coordinator of diversity affairs, before the position became a Vice President of diversity affairs. After graduating from college, he worked in admissions and learned about how classes are shaped and chosen, and is current the associate head of upper school at the Auckland School, a Montessori school, in Dallas Texas. He recently finished a master's degree at Stanford University. He particularly values what he felt was a non-judgmental atmosphere with "unspoken encouragement" to experiment, have curiosity, 'explore yourself, to figure things out." He noted a shift in recruitment between 2004 and 2005, with Skidmore becoming increasingly selective, and wonders how classes following his fare that way. Back on campus, the smell of honeysuckle outside Tisch Learning Center, brought back memories of observation in the Early Childhood Center next door in Palamountain Hall. He welcomed increasing diversity on the faculty, as he had taken no classes from a male of color and only one female of color as professors. He would like to see more, faster, change on diversity, and welcomes the combination of the AOP and HEOP (opportunity programs) on campus. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jacob Navarrete, '08 admissions alumni Diversity Latinx Opportunity Program oral history Skidmore College tour guide https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/21b541fa7db6ea24fea6d25f5fc25b01.jpg d6502daf57a440dbd90fa2c69d73ebf0 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1656d9a9fafa3aad56818cde4a776886.m4a 10cfe432253601e370db48357515963d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5ff9afbd51bc890de041ff626c0bdf45.pdf 291408eee218adb57edd066c881cf180 PDF Text Text 1 Roe-Raymond Interview with Travis Roe-Raymond by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Oral History Project, Skidmore College, NY June 2nd, 2018 Harry Sultan: So if I could just have you introduce yourself. Travis Roe-Raymond: My name is Travis Roe-Raymond and I was in the class of 2008 at Skidmore College. HS: Great, and what did you major in? TRR: I majored in Religious studies HS: Now was that something you knew you wanted to major in before coming to Skidmore? TRR: I had no idea what I was going to study for, or major in when I came here, but before I'd started in college I had started to learn more about yoga and meditation and so when I was starting to figure out what I wanted to do it was really just about taking different classes and so I really had no idea going in and after - I want to say - maybe a semester or two I was like, you know what I really like these classes. HS: You started yoga before Skidmore? TRR: What's that? HS: You started taking yoga before Skidmore? TRR: So I started, yea, I started doing you know meditation and stuff before I even came to Skidmore. My father had gotten into it and that's how I learned about it. HS: And where are you from that you were doing yoga TRR: Yea, central New Jersey, so Princeton New Jersey area. Yea, yea. HS: So you came to Skidmore, decided to take a bunch of classes, could you give me a short list of the different types of classes that you took? TRR: Yea sure so I took, let's see. I took a religious studies course, a religion and violence course - which was really fascinating because this was only a few �2 Roe-Raymond years after, um, the 9/11, so that was really fascinating. Um took courses on religion and contemporary American society so that was on learning about the Branch Dividians in Waco Texas and what makes a group a cult and what makes a group not a cult um. I also took calculus. I also took, I took an arts sculpture class the first year which I feel I don't have a creative bone in my body and so I took that and it was really nice to do something very different, it was the only class I took in that section. I took sociology courses which I really really liked, that had a big impact. And I also took some Psychology courses so really, ran the gamut on all sorts of courses. HS: And did you find by taking all these classes you could pull connections between them throughout college? TRR: Absolutely, it was very much interdisciplinary. And when I was doing the religious studies major, the background of courses they wanted you to take were very much grounded in interdisciplinary approach; so you know you gotta learn about the major thinkers in psychology and sociology and these other areas. So absolutely it was very much integrated and I loved that. It's funny though after college the most challenging thing is people ask like 'what'd you study?' I was like 'religious study'. And they're like 'oh were you trying to become like a religious leader or something?'. 'No no it was purely academic' so you always have to explain that away. HS: And so you get to Skidmore, you don't know what you want to do, but do you remember your first couple of days on campus? TRR: The first few days were, I think for most folks it was such a big adjustment. I remember really trying to get a lay of the land in terms of, everybody's feeling each other out, you know they had a couple folks who would sort of lead you through, 'Hey there's an event going on at the gym' or through these different places, but I was really just trying to get a feel for where �3 Roe-Raymond everybody was and what they liked to do and how I could connect with people. So it was definitely, you know you're out of your comfort zone as it is for most and I just remember just trying to navigate that. I don't think it was terrifying, but I don't think it was easy either and slowly over time it became better. HS: And do you remember your actual first night? Did you hang out with your roommate? Did you go out partying? TRR: My first night, I want to say that there was a upperclassman who, I don't know if they were assigned explicitly or not but they were, they took it upon themselves to gather the new folks whether it was in Johnson Tower or somewhere else and say 'Hey lets all hang out. We're gonna go down to', I think we went down to the auditorium and saw some sort of performance of you know dancers or something like that. And so that was really what the first night was. I was really just in a flock of freshmen and going around with them. And you know it was really nice, I think what was nice was the leader, the person sort of guiding us around was of course very nice and very open and that made it better and actually from that group there was one or two folks that I actually stayed friends with. HS: And going through those three or four years did you have that sort of close knit group of friends? TRR: The, I had a little bit of a division and it was from freshmen, sophomore, and then into junior year and then when I studied abroad; that was somewhat of a line of demarcation. So previous to that there were a few folks that I had befriended, ever since when I came back we sort of went separate ways a little bit and of course before I went, studied abroad, there were a few friends I was hanging out with after but that was a little bit of a divider and I think the reason was because when I got back from study �4 Roe-Raymond abroad and maybe just going to study abroad, it made me realize 'oh my gosh' you know, college is going to be over soon. Not too far off. And you need think about the real world and whats going on and I remember that just being a big mental shift. Because freshmen, sophomore year you're really just trying to get into what is it to be in college, how am I relating to other people, what do I want to study and learn about. But for me it was never, Oh cause I'm going to use this in the real world. After study abroad I was like, wait a second I really need to think about the real world? HS: Where did you study abroad? TRR: I studied in Paris. And Jordana was in charge, Professor Dym and it was a, it was actually a history department program that went over there and it was great. She was studying things around travel in, I want to say 16th century Europe or just medieval Europe. And so that was really the topic. You weren't supposed to know a lick of French. I happened to know some French and so when I got there I was sort of in this tweener group, I didn't know no French but I also wasn't at the expert level that the French majors were doing and so I had to sort of decide which groups I wanted to be taking courses in and all that but that was a wonderful experience that I think I'll never forget. Very powerful. HS: Is there one memory that really stuck out? TRR: Yes um. Our professor instead of having a normal class which we were supposed to that day, she took us um. You know she had a budget for us in terms of when we could take trips and where would go and so our group of maybe 10 students, she took us to a restaurant called Le Grande Vefour which is right downtown Paris and it is one of the very fine dining you know, three star Michelin restaurants - I don't know if it actually was - and we went there for lunch. And you know, if you know any, going into a nice �5 Roe-Raymond restaurant, lunch is a good way to get in because it's just cost effective but even so we had this 8 course meal, with all these special dishes and things to cleanse your palette in between and by the end of it you know thinking how special that meal was, like I never, and never have since had had as nice a meal as that. So that was a really special experience. HS: So you get back from Paris. You're back at Skidmore, you're thinking about the real world. Is there anything from your trip to Paris by studying abroad that you brought back with you to kind of help that transition? TRR: In what sense? HS: Cause I feel like people when they go abroad, you're outside of the Skidmore bubble, you're in a new city, it's a faux adulthood. TRR: Yea exactly, well said. HS: So did you bring any lifestyle advice from your own experience TRR: I think again it goes back to what I was saying before around realizing that being outside of the Skidmore bubble and realizing, yea what do you want life to look like outside, after school. What life do you want to have for yourself? Where do you want to live? Not like I was harboring any thoughts about living in France, but yea it did, it made me think about, 'Okay you know I have only this much time left at school. This is what I'm studying and majoring in um, how do I want to turn this into a career.' I think career was really a big focus and coming out of the study abroad, it was fascinating because France is interesting right I mean you go down the street and it's very similar to being in America. There's parking signs and people walking down the street, but you learn quickly that there are subtle differences. And that, there's a whole history behind all the different things that happened - the French revolution - all these different things that lead to these subtle differences on the surface but then bigger differences in �6 Roe-Raymond peoples beliefs underneath the surface and I think that had a profound impact on how I was thinking about wanting to be in the world when I came back. So I think that was another one. HS: And so looking back you think you would have told yourself; If you could go back and tell yourself "do something different" or "definitely don't change a thing" do you have any advice you would give your former self TRR: I don't know if I, I don't think I would have told myself to go a different path in terms of what classes I took. I was really grateful I took such a breadth of classes. I always wanted to be the person that knew exactly what they wanted to do and just drill deep into that area but as I've gone through time it just doesn't happen that way, it just doesn't work that way. So I think I would have said 'Hey, do what you were doing' I felt like I was able to take advantage of things the way I wanted and maybe if anything, I might have told myself, you know, 'stretch out a little bit more, try even some other classes that you may never have taken the last time around'. HS: Are there any classes you remember not taking that you regret not taking-- TRR: Kind of wanted to? I would've liked to have taken a little more like art and sculpture classes. Just that physical aspect of art. That would have been really cool. Because it did have something of an impression on me when I did the one and I remember in the Northwoods they wanted us to do some sort of project in nature. So what I did was I took these stones and I made what I believe is called a cairn. Which is sort of like this pyramidical shape that you use to sort of mark a trail. And so I went out there and it took weeks and weeks to build this small, not very big cairn. And that was a process that I strangely really connected to and I was surprised that I had. And so that kind of thing made me lead to, "gosh I would've loved to take more art and sculpture classes" �7 Roe-Raymond HS: And so outside of academics were you part of any clubs? TRR: I did, I was part of the Skidmore Cycling Club, believe it or not. So at the time there were a few upperclassmen who had started this club and they had gotten a formidable budget for it so we could really go through the competitive collegiate cycling scene. And that was a great experience. I had received an informal scholarship - it wasn't an official scholarship - to play lacrosse at Skidmore and you know, about three quarters of the way into the first year, my freshmen year, I was just burned out, I wasn't enjoying it. I think just from years and years of playing the sport, it brought me a lot, but I just - it was the middle of winters and I just decided after thinking about it for weeks and weeks, I said I'm done, and I stopped it and so I was looking for something else and cycling was a big thing. And I was also able to do choir and sing and do that because that was something I'd done in high-school and middle school and I still, though I'm not singing now that is another thing that I did that I still enjoy doing. HS: So you sang in high-school, did you cycle in high-school? TRR: I didn't cycle in high-school but I worked at a bike shop for like 8 years. SO at the end of middle school, the local bike shop was looking for someone to work for them and I started doing that. And that was a great process because you know, yea you learn about bikes and all that stuff but that's a big experience when you're, you know, an 8th grader, you're learning all those skills of how to talk to people and how to work with people and that was a really important experience in terms of learning how to problem solve and learning how to work with people and understand what their needs are and stuff like that. So yea I was a bike mechanic and that's how I got around it, and then you know the Tour de France would come around and you'd see Lance Armstrong winning these bike races and that lead to �8 Roe-Raymond after, while I was doing lacrosse I was like "oh I would love to learn how to do road biking" and that's kind of how it started. HS: So was biking a big part of your trip to Paris? TRR: It was supposed to be. So I had my road bike all packed up in a special box to bring over. And of course we took Air France over. And we went over. And of course it didn't show up. And making phone calls and trying to get in touch with them. I think it was two months into my three month stint in Paris when we actually got it. And the only way I think we were even able to get the bike found was luckily my father worked with some people at some of these larger corporations who could reach out to Air France and say 'hey, you gotta help'. I think. So it was very much just luck, finally found it, finally got the bike when I was almost at the end of my trip and I just remember how cool it was being able to ride my bike on the first time ever to ride my bike on foreign soil. And in France which is kind of the hallowed cycling sort of center of the universe so that was a really crazy experience HS: And what was it like the scenery wise in Saratoga versus the cycling in France? TRR: I think, I only got to ride a little bit in France and I wasn't able to get anything competitive, it was really just I'd just go out for little short rides and so coming back senior year I was trying to race competitively in college. And there was less support in the club. Some of the folks, unfortunately there were some, there was a little bit of scandal where we found out some of the founders were actually fabricating receipts to - they were fabricating receipts that they had gone to races and spent all this money that they'd never even gone to. So I heard that those folks got a slap on the wrist and that was it, but I had to give a sworn affidavit to the police �9 Roe-Raymond and all this stuff so it was kind of a big deal. But anyways, I just found that afterwards it was, yea I was trying to really enjoy my last year and so cycling was a big part of that and I was also trying to see if some people that were younger, coming up in Skidmore would get into the club as well. There was actually one gentleman who ended up carrying the mantel and doing some things here. But he took it I think in less of a racing direction and took it more in a nonprofit, helping people get access to bikes direction. And so that was the experience. HS: And is there anything at your time at Skidmore, you're really happy to see is kind of the same? TRR: Well coming back, it's nice to see that things look just aesthetically the same. It's such a beautiful campus. And it's very idealic in that way. It was nice to see that generally everything is how you left it; yes of course its grown and they've put some new things here. You know one thing that was really nice was to run into, to be able to see a former professor and that's something that I feel like I'm really grateful to have the professors I've had ten years ago are now chairs of their department here and it's been really nice being able to connect with them. A few years ago I was dabbling with the idea of graduate school in certain areas and possibly even doctoral programs and they were a huge resource. Even though I hadn't talked to them in six, seven years to be like "Hey, I'm reaching out about this" and they were really great about giving me some really honest feedback about "hey listen. What are you interested in. What are you looking to do in graduate school. and these are our thoughts". So it's been nice to be able to come back, talk with some people, walk around, you know, retrace your steps a little bit. It's so funny how that never gets old. Everybody wants to remember what it was like to, you know, have a certain memory when �10 Roe-Raymond somebody was, ya know, if somebody went to a party and got a little crazy and you see them at the dining hall. All sorts of idiosyncratic stories like that it's nice to see; walk through those areas and relive it so. HS: Has there been a spot on campus, a building you've seen or a place that you've walked by that brought you back to when you were a student? TRR: Case center. Just walking through there and just kind of, you know, the scene, seeing people around on their computers going down - I don't know if they still have it for students now, but they had mailboxes for us. And I remember at the time, I think the biggest thing is just seeing what has changed in the times. So I remember going to my mailbox and pulling out a Netflix DVD that was in the envelope. Like it's amazing something as simple as that has just changed so dramatically. HS: Is there anything that you wish would have changed since you graduated? TRR: It's hard to say. I'd like to say that I was more integrated into the goings on at Skidmore. I feel a little bit more like I hope that things are staying the same in the sense of, my wife and I had very different experiences in undergrad. She went to Rice University, went on to get her doctoral at University of Michigan and then I never went to graduate school but for my work I did do other certifications. And it was so funny how we had such a different experience because she didn't do - I think the school she went to was technically considered liberal arts but what I loved about here that I'm happy stays the same, or I think stays the same is the sort of small class environment and the ability for a professor to say "hey, read this, or go through this information, we're going to come back in and talk about it" but what the professor would do was he or she would facilitate it so they would say "hey, what did you think" and stop and hope most people who read it would then say "oh well I thought this" or "I thought that" and then the �11 Roe-Raymond professor would guide you, not try to, not take over the conversation but guide you on "okay well tell me more about that?" or "what did other people think about that?" and it just lead to these amazing conversations. The ability to hear other peoples' perspectives without being, you know sometimes you could enter the realm of things where people have different backgrounds and it could be maybe a little offensive so I really appreciated that. One thing that I'm worried about that I hope isn't changing, I think there's been some really important changes you know with the MeToo movement, and some of the new fears around discrimination, racism, gender, sexism, things like that, and I hope that as that's all happening, I hope that people are still given the space to kind of respectively give their opinion even if it's not perfectly along party lines so to speak. Because one thing I was hearing - so right now I'm a financial planner, so I work with professors at all sorts of schools and one comment I was hearing from one art professor down in New Jersey who was retiring, he was saying that, he said "oh well you know unfortunately I've heard some comments that professors now have to be very careful saying something that's even seemingly benign because theres a lot more sensitivity to how it could be interpreted". And obviously theres a line on what's right and wrong to do but they did give me kind of some pause to think,"gosh I wonder how it is now". So I just hope that there is that sense of hearing different perspectives and being respectful to them HS: So is that not something that you had to worry about when you were a student? TRR: I just felt like the professors at Skidmore would, they would do a really good job of saying, "okay I'm going to ask a question about something that is controversial" especially I remember during the religion and violence �12 Roe-Raymond course. So we were trying to look at the steps that the - for the lack of a better term - terrorists took when they crashed the plane into the World Trade Center, and we were trying to look at it less from a, lets just straight up demonize them, and more of a, okay if we're playing devil's advocate or we're trying to understand their side, what do you see? And we were talking about Osama Bin Laden and you know it's very easy, in that time it's very easy to say well they're bad and they're horrible and that's all there is to it. Well there's a lot more to it. It's just this aspect of the professor saying "listen we need to look at these other perspectives because it's not good enough to simply typecast somebody or some thing because you're not going to understand as much" so we learned a lot more about the us versus them language and the fact that Osama Bin Laden, as much as he did horrible things and represented very negative things. He also was very smart and had very, was very good at his rhetoric and how to shape ideas and thoughts to his means, or his ends rather. So that was, those were some valuable experiences. HS: And did any of these conversations drift out into social life or dorm life or were your academic and social life completely separate? TRR: Well they did in the sense that, when I was there - I was there from 2004 till 2008 - and so when I was there it was the presidential elections with John Kerry and George W. Bush for a second term and that absolutely leaked out all the time. So I remember in my religious studies class with Professor Mary Stange talking about it, and obviously we're at a liberal arts school so most - I don't know anybody who was actually for President Bush - but, god you could just feel the energy on campus when George W. Bush wins again. It's so interesting looking back on that now after what's happened in 2016 which truly paints an interesting juxtaposition. So yea that'd bleed out �13 Roe-Raymond a lot and we would talk about it. I don't know if I had super structured social forums for us being like "hey, you know let's talk about the elections" but it definitely leaked out. HS: And what about downtown life? TRR: Downtown life, I was, it's funny, for me Skidmore was very much a bubble even from the town a lot. I ended up working at a local bike shop, I worked at the Saratoga Ice Rink. When the parents would come into town we'd be able to go to a restaurant or something like that. I didn't have a terrible amount of either community engagement or sort of interaction with the downtown. Maybe I'd walk through town or something like this, but it wasn't a whole lot; because it's just amazing how one, the academic things that you're trying to take care of on Skidmore, for me, just kept me here. And I like that, but it was also very insulating, you just kind of forget that everything else is out there. So I didn't have a terrible amount of interaction, probably the most was just biking in and out of town constantly to go out on long rides with the group and things like that. But I didn't have a huge interaction. The only thing was really Caroline Street, you know that was the place where everybody went to kind of let loose and if you wanted to, if you were of age and wanted to drink, and I remember the place, there was a pizza place you'd get doughboys and I remember that being a big thing. HS: And now that you're, when you found you were going to be coming back was there any establishment in Saratoga that you were really looking forward to going to? TRR: Country Corner was big, that was big. I think just because when you come back you remember it as amazing, and you come back and you're like "alright this wasn't amazing" but it's still just that memory. So Country �14 Roe-Raymond Corner, Putnam Market was also another place I looked forward to going to. So I'd say those were the two big ones. HS: Any last stories that you really want to tell? TRR: I do remember. I do remember, I don't know what they were doing but there was some sort of run that was happening outside Johnsson Park and I don't know if this happens every year or what. And I wasn't participating in it, but a group of folks, I don't know if they were part of the Wombats - the frisbee team - or what, I don't know, but a group of folks decide that they're going to strip down naked with running shoes on and go do a naked run. So I don't know if that's down now but I just remember hearing it and just, I thought it was absolutely hilarious. So. HS: Cool thanks so much. TRR: Yea thanks so much. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sultan, Harry Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Roe-Raymond, Travis, '08 Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Travis Roe Raymond, '08 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sultan, Harry, 17 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng,) Description An account of the resource Roe Raymond, '08, majored in religious studies, is from central New Jersey. He remembers the first night on campus as having some returning students come to Jonsson Tower and invite first years to join them at an event. That welcome helped break the ice. His major required lots of interdisciplinary study, including in sociology. He studied abroad in Paris, learning about history and travel. Living in France and outside the "Skidmore bubble" helped him decide how to focus on how best to use his remaining semesters on campus. He was part of Skidmore's Cycling Club, and also sang in the chorus. His bike, meant to be a large part of the Paris study-abroad experience, was waylaid by the airline, and arrived with only a month to spare. He was able to reconnect with his professors when applying to graduate school, and appreciated their being 'a huge resource.' He appreciated the open converstions in classrooms, and how faculty guided conversations rather than dictating. The importance of looking at all sides, and hearing different perspectives with respect, was very important to his program, particularly a course on religion and violence which considered the September 2001 attacks. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording alumni cycling cycling club finance interdisciplinary oral history Paris religious studies Skidmore College study abroad https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/330482596733b29ce36ec19eec2c7620.jpg 42d6594fa4b7d43862815d133d7bf861 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fe4b75c9384f20b503784a7295e001cd.m4a 41a1eb0aa8d778518c5a1718c8df525d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2758b22bbb751b30b534451a60a8c1e9.jpg eedc0a49cdc09f06aeca67cab8e0705b https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e53a2903a4b769a9a60dc88e2b0b2015.jpg b34953359fc4ea11b9b80566a66b44e5 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6ac8c8ada256bff471f21c221d2bd36d.jpg 53ff1f93fe7b3227d9ec58fe42deccbf https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c47094ffa5f9c7692a2a8c255de64378.pdf 79487377c3616602157dfa4858f8461d PDF Text Text 1 Cohen & Carr Interview with Emily Cohen and Jennifer Carr by Harry Sultan, Skidmore College Saratoga Memory Project, Skidmore College, NY June 1st 2018 Harry Sultan: Could I have you introduce yourselves? Emily Cohen: I'm Emily Cohen, Emily Diminiani Cohen. Class of 1988 Jennifer Carr: I'm Jennifer Carr and I'm also class of 1988 HS: And how did you two meet? JC: We met on our move in day of our freshmen year, so 1984. September. But we met on the phone prior to that. Emily gave me a phone call after you get your letter - back in those days you got an actual delivered letter that explained who your roommate was and what interests my overlap. And Emily phoned and we had a fun conversation. HS: Do you remember that conversation? JC: Do you? EC: Bits and pieces, I think you probably remember more than I do, you have a better memory for those. JC: I remember Emily saying that she was from New York and that she spoke very proper and I had a Boston accent that was fairly thick at the time and Emily quietly note, 'oh, you have a thick Boston accent' and I think it lead into the fact that she would be allowed to have a car on campus and I was like, "ooh a car on car on campus, that'll be exciting" EC: Right, that was back in the day. I think now Freshmen are not allowed to have cars, but I think we did. I don't remember if I had it from the very beginning or six months in. JC: I don't recall EC: We might have. So yes, we met move-in day. My parents, Jennifer's parents. I was teary, I couldn't believe I was going to college, and going to be independent and �2 Cohen & Carr separated from my parents and Jennifer was ready to celebrate and throw her arms up in the air. JC: I was celebrating. Parent free. It was a nice opportunity to be away from my parents that I was very much looking forward to. HS: And what dorm were you in JC: Tower. Tower 8th floor correct? EC: 8th floor, yes. JC: And we had a balcony room EC: and a co-ed floor which my parents were horrified by JC: Oh gosh, mine as well. My father met a young man who had an earring, and he was a little, discombobulated by that fact. I think, first that there was a man on our floor and what did that mean in 1984. Didn't mean anything; that he liked an earring. HS: And when you got to your room did you decorate, did you settle in, did you explore the campus? EC: We bought a few things. You had a bit more flare than I did. You brought maybe a lamp, something for the walls, posters. There was definitely an Ice Cream Social, that was an icebreaker. I do remember that, going to that together. After I stopped crying we went to the ice cream social. We had the window seat, did you make that your bed? JC: Yea we moved the mattress off the bed-frame, I don't know where we were allowed to put the bed-frame after that, but we moved the mattress to the window seat so my bed was there and Emily had the modular unit. EC: Right, so I had to climb up some stairs and then the desk below. We had a nice room. Nice suite JC: We had suite-mates. 1, 2, 3, rooms on our side and then two rooms on the other side of the bathroom. �3 Cohen & Carr HS: So when you got into Skidmore did you have any idea of what you'd want to major in or what you wanted to get out of Skidmore? EC: I wanted liberal arts, so that's what drew me to Skidmore. I studied French, but really a broad liberal arts curriculum. So I think I was looking for that experience. You were business-minded. JC: I was a business major, and I think I knew that from the beginning but I also was excited about the liberal arts experience and I remember thinking partially through the school year how each class room experience had some shared knowledge that sort of transcended from one class to the next and I was very excited about that because that's not how high-school was. HS: Do you have any examples how those classes transcended into the rest? JC: It was a long time ago. Let's see. I do remember we took a business, we had BU-107 I think it was in the beginning stages of that and just how that incorporated accounting, but also had english features to it that you had to do presentations EC: Right, and read the book and even as a french major I took BU-107 and I remember to this day reading the book called House. I think that's what it was called, about a married couple who built a house - it was a novel about how they almost ended up divorced because of this process together so even in a business class there was this whole study approach. JC: The aspect of working in a group and who would take on which roles, and who was slacking and who was not slacking. I think I wasn't the best business major in the world HS: And did you take the class together cause you were such good friends? EC: We didn't take the class together, no. I took it maybe as a junior just ya know to take because it was one of those, 'oh you have to take BU-107 and �4 Cohen & Carr learn about McDonalds and Gillette Razors' and all of those classic business examples. You took it probably first year. JC: I took it first year, maybe second semester. I remember it being springtime. I remember on our day of our presentation listening to a Crosby Stills and Nash song, I don't know why that sticks in my mind, and having to present in front of these business men, there were no women at the time. But it was very nerve racking. I was nervous. HS: Do you remember what song? JC: I'm not good with the songs, but it's the one that goes on for about 12 minutes long. HS: Sweet Judy Blue Eyes? JC: mmm we'd have to google it I think HS: And could you tell me a bit about not just your dorm room, but your dorm life? Did you hang out with people in your suite and the floors? JC: We did, there was a freshmen group, they were in a triple. EC: Yes, one of our dearest friends to this day, she lives in Colorado so unfortunately Claude Goldberg is not here, but we're dear friends to this day. And then a junior in a single JC: And a senior on the other side whose boyfriend took photographs for Sports Illustrated and that was kind of fascinating; we got to see the photographs of - what sticks in my mind is the swimsuit issues were always so popular at the time and kind of sexist I guess now; but the swimsuit issues would come out and you'd look at all the photographs but we got to see all the photographs before they were retouched and we were amazed at how different things were. EC: I do remember that. JC: You remember that? �5 Cohen & Carr EC: I forgot about that. HS: Were there parties in the dorms or more relaxed? JC: I think they used to have like floor parties, maybe the RA's would pair up with another floor and you'd have like seventh and eighth floor would have like a social and I think they could serve alcohol cause the drinking age was eighteen at the time and they would put a sign on the water fountain that said 'non alcoholic beverage' kind of thing. And they'd be socials so they weren't hours and hours long but there was a common room EC: There was, I was just about to say I remember - was it on the top floor? Because I remember our freshmen year watching the Super Bowl in some sort of common room, but not on our floor because we were the last class to have J-term so we spent January, we came back right after December vacation and had a one month - I think I took art history that month - a one month intensive maybe three week class. And skiing, we used to go to West Mountain and Ski. So we were here for the Super-bowl. I remember going to a party freshmen year on that floor JC: Yea it's the penthouse I believe HS: So when you weren't in classes - you just said you skid - were you part of any clubs or activities? JC: I was on the riding team, the horse riding team for a couple of years. And did we join in the some other thing within the dorm, I think we might've EC: Maybe, I remember some sort of volunteer opportunities. I remember something in town, maybe with an elementary school that I did at one point. It was such a long time ago now but my memories are of, and that was what touched me this morning listening to the award ceremony, and to our classmate who received the Creative Thought Matters award, that there was this commitment even then to social activism and taking care of the �6 Cohen & Carr other and it wasn't called creative thought matters but it was definitely in the culture of, you know, putting yourself out there to help in the community and the world. HS: And so I guess coming back here are you seeing anything that has stayed the same that you're happy has stayed the same since when you were around? JC: I think the overall campus layout is the same so it feels familiar. Still the same buildings that are here now but I find comfort knowing like where to go to find which dorm, the names of the buildings return to my mind, when someone says the Ladd building, I'm like "oh the Ladd building". But mostly the dorms I think bring back a little nostalgia feel. Like which window was mine, you know remember that year you lived in that dorm and traipsing across the quad we would have occasionally on Saturdays or Sundays they would have sort of like cake parties out there I guess. Someone would put a speaker up in Howe-Rounds out their window and just be out. HS: And was there anything that you came across on campus while you've been here that started an immediate flashback to when you were in college? EC: Being on the green probably. Sitting there this morning having the skidmosas and looking out onto the green remembering those parties and, as I said, the music. I remember that Livingston Taylor came and played and there was a piano on the green. JC: I don't remember that, but I remember the gatherings. Some kids played hackey sack, there was always hackeysack, frisbee. Sometimes we would just sit out there and listen to the music, watch everybody come and go. It was nice cause you were all together and didn't have a class. It was all relaxed. �7 Cohen & Carr HS: Anything that as you've come back and see things that you wish were different, or things that you wished changed that you see are still the same? JC: I don't EC: No I see only progress. You know the garden, we were commenting if we would garden, and the answer is probably not. But young people today, college students today are so minded toward that so I only see improvements. The growth and the landscaping is more beautiful, the patios are more wonderful JC: Skidmore to me is like an awesome place and nothing, I would never change anything about it. Um, those places down there EC: Sussman JC: Sussman is reminiscent of what we lived in but is also nice and new. I am always happy to come back. No regrets. The only thing I wish is that we had more of things they have. You know the beautiful museums and the music center we were in today. EC: Zenkel is beautiful, and the tang. JC: We didn't have that. HS: And did either of you study abroad EC: No I didn't, remember, I didn't want to leave. I should have but I was so happy in Saratoga, so happy at Skidmore that I didn't. No. We were both here all four years. JC: I think I was happy to be here. HS: And while you were on campus did you ever break outside the Skidmore bubble, explore Saratoga? JC EC: Always JC: I think we would walk down or take the crazy bus that was offered �8 Cohen & Carr EC: And we went to the battlefield, the Saratoga Battlefield, we would go to Lake George occasionally, explore. Yes we felt that we were in a beautiful, we loved the area. JC: Sometimes we'd go out to dinner together or with another friend. Even as freshmen we would find someplace else to eat besides the dining hall. EC: Yes, the dining hall is a huge step up from our dining hall. Huge step up in looks and quality JC: I remember shrimp cocktail. Every, maybe once a month, they'd put out this huge display of shrimp. Do you recall that? I think I overdosed on shrimp because that would be like the only food I would eat. Seemed the freshest. I had so many shrimp EC: I remember eggs. Always making egg salad from the hard boiled eggs. Yea that's my strongest dining hall memory JC: The shrimp always caught me off guard, like what college has shrimp. My other friends were like, 'you get shrimp in college?' I'm like 'yea' HS: When you went out for dinners in Saratoga was there one place that was kind of the go-to? EC: Madame Jammels for Sunday brunch which I think is gone. The Court Bistro which is also not there. Oh and Hattie's Chicken Shack is still there, we used to go there on Sundays for dinner. Gaffneys of course for wing night. JC: And that was inexpensive EC: Yes. Um Where else did we JC: When our parents were in town we'd make them take us to the expensive restaurants like the Old Bryan Inn. EC: Lillians we went to occasionally JC: What was that place out by the lake? On Saratoga lake �9 Cohen & Carr EC: It's still there. It's big, it almost has a theme to it now. JC: I think it had a water feature on the inside. EC: Yes I think so. What's it called, out on the lake or towards the lake. JC: They had coconut bread as the bread they serve from the beginning and they had a recipe that my mother still has. EC: Oh really? I can't remember the name of that restaurant. JC: Steven [Mosk] took me there on our first date. Big spender that he was. EC: Showing off HS: And have you been to any of these places since you graduated? EC: Definitely. JC: Mrs. Londons we enjoy. Gaffneys. I mean the physical buildings are still there, most of them anyway. EC: So Jennifer and I, because we so love Saratoga and Skidmore, we've come to every reunion and we've also come over the years for a fall trip to meet each other or a spring trip with our moms, did we come once with our moms. So we've definitely stayed very connected. We rented a house one summer we were remembering this morning, 20 years ago, no 19 years ago. Yea so we've stayed very attached and very connected to Skidmore. JC: It's one of our favorite places to be, I think. It makes us happy when we're here. HS: Did you feel like, or has your appreciation of Skidmore or Saratoga change since you left Skidmore? JC: I know I think we still feel, like we come back and we feel we know which streets to go up and down, it feels familiar EC: It's grown quite a bit, the downtown. We definitely reminisce about the way things were before there were more retail chain stores, that's a difference. But it's kept its character and we just love seeing what's new. �10 Cohen & Carr JC: Grand Union's gone. EC: yes JC: Price chopper. What else did we do? We used to go there to get snacks EC: Right. Is the diner still there? Down toward JC: Comptons? EC: No, there was a diner wasn't there? Toward the lake on Broadway? I don't know. HS: So what was an average week like? JC: I remember we would have classes. It wouldn't be a full day of classes. You'd have whatever you chose for your times, for your class schedule. But you'd have a class, a little bit of time off, time to have a lunch break, go back to an afternoon class. Some would have an evening class, some would have a 7 o'clock class. We'd have dinner in between, then library/ study in the room. I was not a very good library goer. And then I think every day was a little different but that was sort of the general them, I don't remember sleeping in. EC: No. And maybe exercising. The athletic center isn't what it is today, but it was really nice in 1984, 85. We played squash, played a lot of squash. Um we watched friends compete in sports. JC: Hockey EC: Yes, hockey games HS: Were the sports a big part of the culture at Skidmore back then? JC: It was small enough that I think you pretty much knew everybody who played a sport and who didn't play a sport so if your friend or girlfriend was playing an important game on campus you'd definitely want to visit and see what they were up to. I don't think I took in too many basketball games, but a few. �11 Cohen & Carr EC: no. Hockey, lacrosse, occasional soccer. JC: Tennis EC: We'd watch tennis. HS: And was that the same with the equestrian team? JC: So the equestrian team didn't really have shows, maybe once a year we'd have shows here so we'd have to travel around. Got to go to Cornell, I've forgotten some of the other places we would go. St. Lawrence, we would drive all the way up there. So it was more off campus, and we'd have to sleep overnight usually which was strange. We'd be in kind of crummy hotels and no bus would take us we'd have to drive in someones personal car which I don't think they do anymore. Probably legal reasons HS: what was it like competing at the collegiate level? JC: That was awesome. The horse back team is a little bit different than a traditional sport. As a team you're not out there at the same time, you're sort of doing it individually to accumulate points as a team. So you were still riding horses like you were normally in your previous life but it was fun to be with a bunch of ladies and men, because it was a co-ed sport so that was pretty neat. EC: Bruce did it with you JC: Yes, I was on the team with Bruce EC: On our freshmen year JC: Yup that's how we got to know each-other a little bit better. But it was a fun thing to do as a co-ed group I guess. And we spent a lot of time traveling back and forth so we would chat about whatever, eat pizza out usually is what we ended up doing but it was kind of fun to see other schools and got to meet the kids at a different level, like we would spend more time with them because we would be hanging at the schools with them. Different �12 Cohen & Carr schools were competing in one arena, you go and you right their horse so you don't know what you're getting until you get there which was the unique part about it. HS: And you did it all four years? JC: I didn't do it my senior year. Three years. I don't know what happened EC: I don't remember JC: I don't remember either. I don't know if it was taking more time than I could spend, or I wanted to diversify cause I ended up being on the government committee. Student government committee. EC: Mmm. SGA, you did do that, I forgot about that. JC: Yea so the student government council? EC: Association I think. SGA? JC: I don't remember. EC: I think JC: And we would sit on disciplinary hearings for students so we were sort of in charge of making disciplinary actions amongst your peers which was a sort of unique experience in itself. HS: Any things from there that remain with you? JC: I remember it being very difficult and I thought it was a challenge to participate in that because you are their peers and we didn't have a court system like you do now. We didn't have a ton of evidence it was more one person speaking for themselves, maybe someone else speaking for or against them. And then we had to decide what the disciplinary action would be. We had a guide and there was definitely a faculty or administrative member on the team. But I don't remember what we listened to to be honest. What kind of crimes they were. EC: What sort of infractions. I don't remember �13 Cohen & Carr JC: There may have been a sexual assault discussion which now would be probably something you hear more often, but back in 1987 or '8, whatever, that was, it was hard I think to understand what was right and what was wrong with facts and evidence HS: and were you part of SGA as well? EC: No I wasn't, I did more volunteer work I remember. I did have an internship at the Hyde Museum. I was thinking about that during my drive here. In the rare book department and that was fun. I would drive to that museum and do some work there but no student government for me. HS: Was the Hyde internship something that you got through Skidmore? EC: Yes it was. I don't remember how, and I don't even remember if it was our junior year or if it was over two years but it was a wonderful museum and I was thinking about it on the way here, if we had more time it would be fun to go back and see that museum. HS: And was that an area that you thought maybe after college that you'd go into? EC: I think I was just exploring more than anything honestly. I liked art, liked books, and it was an opportunity that presented itself so I don't think I really, thirty years ago things were so different. We just didn't think that much about what we would do after college. It's, to look at the wall downstairs of the seniors from this year that have phenomenal jobs in banking and law and medicine and the Your Hired Photos; we commented yesterday, we wouldn't be on that wall. JC: We went to Europe. EC: We went to Europe. HS: For how long were you in Europe? �14 Cohen & Carr JC: Two months. I think a total of eight weeks. Our third friend Claude came with us and we all met at Emily's parents house and they took us to the airport and sent us off on Air-whatever we were on-france? And we had such wonderful experiences cause Claude had an uncle in Paris and we stayed in someones friend's flat and we went to the south of France and stayed with yourEC: My brother's client, yes. And we crossed paths - so maybe students do it still - but we crossed paths with so many Skidmore friends throughout Europe and my kids always grown when I say this but, pre cell phones we would say, 'okay we'll meet you next Tuesday at the fountain at three o'clock' and we did, it worked. It wasn't, 'are you there yet? are you coming? are you sure'. We just made these plans and ran into friends and it was great. We had a great time. JC: And we ran into another classmate, he was the class president, we ran into him at the [museum name] museum? Randomly. So it was definitely something that a lot of graduates were doing at the time. Traveling. EC: Backpacking through Europe. HS: You studied french, so obviously that came in handy. Was there any other things you learned from an actual class at Skidmore or just being a Skidmore student that you felt like prepared you for this unchartered world? JC: I took an art history class, I remember because I didn't know enough about art and art history so I remember seeing some of those things we studied in class in real life and how amazing that was. That I enjoyed, that piece. My business piece sort of applied in the, after our travels I think. EC: But I think just the general Skidmore feeling on campus of being open to experiences and �15 Cohen & Carr JC: that we felt comfortable doing that experience EC: Exactly. Exactly. HS: and what was your average Friday night like? JC: I think usually we wouldn't leave campus until maybe 10pm. 9:30pm? and then go downtown and find a spot to be with all of our friends. There was the Trattoria, we remembered last night, was the three floor storied place with music and a lot of music I think it was. Someone would DJ, sometimes a Skiddie would be DJing. EC: and Barclays which is no longer I think. But that was Tuesday nights I think. JC: That was definitely midweek. Maybe that's why it closed. HS: Were there many nights during the week that you'd go down to these places? JC: Thursday nights we would EC: Thursday nights we went to a bar, it's now called Baileys, it was the grill at the time. I think Tuesday nights was a Barclays night, and Thursday nights was the Grill and Friday night was wherever, or a house party. A lot of people lived off campus our junior and senior years. But late. We definitely stayed. And everything stayed open late. And then late night wings or popcorn at Gaffneys JC: There was that hotdog place that at the window, you'd walk up to a facade there was no place to sit or anything - you'd get your EC: Cheesy fries JC: Something HS: And this is downtown? EC: Downtown. I think it's next to the Tin and Lint still? Maybe it's gone, or next to Gaffneys I don't know. �16 Cohen & Carr HS: And this was going on Freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior year? JC: I know when we first started cause the drinking age was 18, the campus life was a little more vibrant cause you could have alcohol on campus and they allowed you to have keg parties as long as there was an alternate beverage offered. But I think after the drinking age changed there was definitely a shift in how much time we spent our time on campus in the evenings. HS: So it changed while you were in college? JC EC: it did. EC: It went to 21. From 18 to 21. HS: Do you remember what year you guys were? EC: I think it was spring of our freshmen year? Or fall of sophomore year JC: It went to twenty. I think it went to twenty, when we were sophomores and when we were just about to turn twenty it turned twenty-one. HS: So what was that like being students in this place where you had all these freedoms and then to have it crashing down? JC: It was, we felt annoyed by that because, you're from NY, I wasn't from NY so it was already 21 at home. But at school I was allowed to drink alcohol and then you come back from winter break and you're no longer allowed legal. And they didn't grandfather anyone in, maybe they did for New York people? EC: I don't think so because I remember thinking that it was just so wrong, and being so irritated by that, 'how can you let us drink for 6 months and then all of a sudden you say you can't drink anymore'. JC: It did disrupt the feeling of the town I think and I think the town businesses suffered as well because they couldn't let us in. HS: Did that put any strain on your relationship with the school? EC JC: no no �17 Cohen & Carr JC: No, they just had to follow the rules, so the party size changed where - oh yea I forgot, I was the Bud rep on campus our senior year. So we would (laughs) - Spuds McKenzie EC: I forgot about that JC: You were not even born then. So there was an Annheiser Busch distributor not far in Saratoga and I worked directly with the distributor and each party would have to go through the rep to acquire their alcoholic beverages so I would help them supply them with a cool, a kegerator kind of thing where you hook up the kegs to it. So I'd go and set up the kegs and attach them all. But in the beginning you used to have like a ten keg party and then when the drinking age went from 20 to 21 it was down to like a four keg party and then they stopped offering keg parties on campus after I left. But the Spuds McKenzie thing, we had like swag we'd hand out, t-shirts. It's kind of funny I forgot about that experience. I had to diversify didn't I, from the horse team. I was on SGA and the Bud rep at the same time. HS: I guess looking back if you could tell yourself one piece of advice going forward is there anything you would have changed? EC: Maybe the study abroad. Even though we traveled, I think that having children who have studied abroad I think that I should've done that, but I don't regret it. Definitely not. I made the choice, I loved Skidmore, I loved Saratoga and wanted my four years here. Couldn't think about missing a fall here or a spring here, even the winters ya know now I can't stand winter but, and we got feet and feet of snow. You still do, I'm sure. But it wasn't a big deal. So that's probably the one thing that maybe I would say, 'oh, you should've gone to Paris' JC: I think that I would tell myself to pay a little closer to my studies, to you know use my time a little more wisely as a student. But also participate in �18 Cohen & Carr all the school has to offer, don't miss out on both things. I think my studying could've been better. But it was fine. It all was good. EC: It all worked out. HS: Great, and any last great stories you didn't get a chance to tell? JC: I don't know, we had so many fun times together just, our other girlfriend Claude joining us in some of the fun and being part of each-others lives is always a fun story but I don't know if theres one specific. EC: No, just such an intimacy that we really are family, you know I love that as I said, we didn't have creative thought matters, but we did. It just wasn't called that. And we didn't have hashtags but I love that hashtag Skid4Life. Because we are Skidmore sisters and just in each-others lives because of our experience here. Our kids are in each-others lives, our husbands. Four of us, another girlfriend who's here at reunion and Claude, the one in Colorado, the eight of us - with our husbands - went to Las Vegas to celebrate our fiftieth birthdays so that was a real Skidmore reunion. JC: And we met up with a fifth friend who lives out in that area, so that was really fun having ten of us together and it felt like we had been together every month but some of us haven't seen each-other in 20 years or only every five years. So its just great. HS: That's wonderful, well I think that just about wraps it up. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cohen, Emily; Carr, Jennifer Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording Title A name given to the resource Interview with Emily Cohen and Jennifer Carr, '88 alumni oral history Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0112e20e3c4af230a84be1720072fcb0.jpg 6ee0b6f04ad290999f54d721e83579fd https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/4e3e521d48a56480b5499c111d29058f.jpg f9d7aded77e3dd1fd9e7cc6ce6b45299 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fe0f2a2372764f954c14703677d93c31.m4a d49d47cd73d72d4331124a36c6efa747 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/03c1fa9f243af125000abc19ea842efa.pdf 007f650d827c0373ec64efbab65a5e09 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rizzo, Emily Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Warner, Andrew Location The location of the interview Lucy Scribner Library, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Jordana Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 6/27/18 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio recording Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2-Jun-18 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rizzo, Emily, 18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio recording Title A name given to the resource Interview with Andrew Warner, 83 alumni oral history Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/53066a2713d31fd70dbb395b645855e6.jpg 8c304454a7f1821579efcd08ecdca812 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/647ba7adddf563fb5248451b73449e62.mp3 6ce9ea0b87c3111b8648e9c47a33b892 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9454b72047b23cc48d4411a49e27aee7.pdf 243ad65043e2d9030d183a7fa4eba595 PDF Text Text JS: Hello, I am James Sutherland and um, I am doing the Saratoga Springs Memory Project interview. Could you introduce yourself? EM: Yes, I am Eric Morser, I am an associate professor of history at Skidmore College. JS: Um, could you tell us a little about your background? EM: Yeah, I am originally from Wisconsin, uh, I lived there for the first thirty three years of my life, I went to the University of Wisconsin for my undergraduate degree, and liked it enough in Madison Wisconsin that I stayed there for my masters and my PHD, so I was there for fifteen years. Um, after that, I had a number of jobs around the country, I taught at a university in Pennsylvania, I taught for two years at the University of New Mexico and three years at the University of Florida, before coming up to Skidmore, and I have been at Skidmore now for about nine years. JS: So you came to Saratoga for Skidmore? EM: Yes, yeah there was a job that was open, and it sounded like it was a good place, and I had known some people who had taught here, and, uh, that is really what drew me here. JS: Um, so what is one big memory, what is your favorite memory of Saratoga Springs? EM: My favorite memory of Saratoga Springs is probably related to this little person here, uh, he was born a few months after we moved here, and uh, I remember very clearly, I was teaching a class- a night class on campus, I got a call from his mom saying "Can you come home, I need to go to the hospital," and then he was born at 6:06 the next day on November 5, 2009, so that is probably one of the clearest memories that I have. JS: And, um, what about a memory from Skidmore? EM: Uh, I think one of the best memories I've had from Skidmore is, right at- the year when I came, there was something called the Coroda(?) lecture, and that's, it happens every two years, it's hosted by the Poli-sci department, and Government, and American Studies, and each time each department gets it they bring special speaker in. So, I think it was my first year, or my second? I think it was my first year, where it was my job to bring the speaker in, and I was not quite sure what to make of it, I had somebody in mind who turned out to be great, she came to campus, she talked about early American history, she had just written a book about Thomas Jefferson, and the women in his life, and it was that moment where I really felt like I was part of the Skidmore community. Where people, I was reaching out to people, and they were coming to this event, and it was kind of a big campus event, and that was a really good memory for me, �that’s always been a good memory thinking about how it is that I started to create an origin, to establish roots here. JS: Any other events like that that stand out to you? EM: Yeah, I mean one that’s more recent than that, is that I was able to work on a prison exhibit that came to campus, it was a national prison exhibit, I had put together a public history course kind of like the one that you’re teaching, it was built around a semester long project, I know you guys are doing the Howard Zinn documentary, and that project was related to the history of Mount MacGregor, a prison that closed in 2014, and we were invited to join this international, well really national but kind of international organization, in which each school was donating a local story relating to mass incarceration. So I was able to work on this project with those students, and then finally last semester that exhibit that had been touring the country came to Skidmore, and it was kind of a nice series of memories of events that I’d worked on, with Jordana Dym and some other people on campus, drawing people from in the community, draeing a lot of students, and it was a series of really satisfying events that highlighted all of the things that are possible when you’re at a place like Skidmore. So I think more recently that’s something that really stands out. JS: These- so community events, I take it, you’re very into them. EM: Yes, yes definitely. JS: Are those the only two, or… EM: Those are the ones that really stand out, I – part of what I do along with teaching in the history department, I’m the faculty director of civic engagement, so that has given me a chance to work with other faculty members and students on similar kinds of community events so I spend a lot of time thinking about bringing speakers to campus, and helping students reach out beyond the campus in ways that are really satisfying, one thing that we did a couple of years ago was we brought a speaker in named Julie Winoker(?), and she, uh, had put together a film about the challenge of trying to get people from different political points of view having conversations with one another, and that was, we brought her in in 2016, when the presidential election was really heating up, and it was a nice chance to bring members of the community together for, uh, for an event that I thought was really important given the context of the times. So whenever there’s a chance to do that kind of community outreach I really really enjoy it. JS: What are some challenges that you face with that aspect of the job? EM: It is always, uh with the civic engagement stuff, it is always um… well we don’t have a lot of resources for it, so I’m lucky enough to work with a subcommittee, on campus, where I work with people like Michelle Hubbs, who is a staff member who works on community outreach, and I work with other faculty members. Had the committee not existed, I could not do the job at all. And part of it is just about having financial support, a part of it is logistical support, planning these events takes a lot of time, and takes a lot of energy, and it can be really satisfying, but it can be really stressful as well, trying to figure out if the room you have is the right size, trying to reach out to people who are not members of the �campus, trying to bring a lot of people in, there are always a lot of moving parts, so that’s part of the challenge of it, and when it works it’s great, but it takes a lot of focused energy to get it moving. JS: So what’s one thing about Skidmore or Saratoga Springs that you would change? EM: Oooh, that I would change about Skidmore or Saratoga Springs… um… I guess for Skidmore, if I could change anything, and this is a little more personal I guess, I really like this idea of civic engagement, I wish we had a center for civic engagement, I wish we had some kind of a dedicated space, I wish we had staff, I wish we had a million dollar a year budget, um, I think something like that would be fantastic. And one thing that I also wish is that um, I wish that there was a little more sense of coordination on campus because there’s so much going on, and a lot of times one hand doesn’t always know what the other hand is doing in terms of planning events, or even putting classes together that I wish there was some kind of way to coordinate things a little more so that we always, so that we have a better sense of all of the activities that are going on, rather than having so much going on that people feel overwhelmed, and I think that students sometimes feel overwhelmed by that as well. So I think if I could change anything personally I’d love to have a center for civic engagement, otherwise if there was a way to coordinate these events and um, to really involve different kinds of departments who might be interested in these events and to bring them in in a more intentional way, I think that’d be great. JS: Reverse of that, what’s one thing that you hope never changes? EM: I hope, what never changes, is that, I hope I always have good, devoted students, and one thing I like about Skidmore students is that they are really aware of the world around them. I like the fact that we have so many students going abroad, I like the fact that there are a lot of students who really believe that they can change the world, and if that attitude disappeared it would be a real loss, so I think that’s one thing that I really like, I really like the students. You guys are really engaged, and you’re just, you’re a fun group to work with, and that’s the biggest thing I would hate to see disappear. JS: So how many different classes would you say you’ve taught at Skidmore? EM: Um, I would say ten or twelve classes, I think something like that? Um, I’ve got in my rotation now I’ve got six or seven, something like that, and I’ve got different versions, I think I’ve taught a dozen different classes, ten or twelve for sure. And I mean that’s one thing that’s nice too that I really like about Skidmore, is that we’ve got a lot of freedom to design the kinds of classes that we really like, um, at some places I knew people who taught the same class over and over and over again, and there was not a lot of freedom or leeway to really engage in that kind of creative pedagogy, where you would have a chance to say, I really wanna teach a class on this, like I taught my first year experience course, when that exhibit was here, I taugh a first year experience course on mass incarceration, and I was able to take my students over to the exhibit and integrate them into the events, and that is something that would not necessarily be common at a bigger university, so one great thing about Skidmore is that we have that kind of freedom to teach a variety of different kinds of classes, and we’ve got a lot of, there’s a lot of energy in the history department, where people are having conversations about classes that they want to teach, or team teaching, or coming in and talking in somebody else’s class, we do that all the time, and there’s a really nice sense of cooperative education going on here. And that’s, that’s been really exciting. �JS: So is there any particular class or collaboration with another teacher that stands out? EM: Uh, one that I did this past semester is, my colleague Erika Bastress-Dukehart, who teaches – you may have had her before – that she teaches a course on crime and punishment ijn Europe, and I was doing my course on mass incarceration in the United States, and I said to her it’d be great if you could come in and talk about Fukoh(?) and talk about the European origins of American criminal justice, and she came in and did that, and, uh, it was great for the students to meet her, and see, her, she’s really dynamic, and she said now I – it’d be great if you could come into my class too, so I went into one of her classes on the Reformation and talked about the impact of the Reformation on American history, and that was one moment where the two of us could really come together, and it really wasn’t just about having conversations, where we discover that we have similar interests, it was about us taking those similar interests and viewing particular events from different points of view and coming into classes and sharing those different points of view. It’s moments like that that are really great, and we’ve talked about doing more of that kind of work here, and that’s one that I really look back and say “that worked, that was a good thing.” JS: Um, of all the historical sites in and around Saratoga, which one resonates with you most of all? EM: I like – I love the battlefield, that’s probably an easy answer for me. I really, I’ll give you two to that, I love the battlefield because I like to be able to talk about the Battle of Saratoga in class and tell students we’re 20 minutes away from where the world changed. Uh, they do a really nice job leading tours, and organizing it, but I really really like having that battlefield close by because it reminds students how close history can actually be. One other place I like is Congress Park, and I like that just because of the beauty of the park, and I’ve got fond memories of taking him (his son) there and going on the merry-go-round, even though you cried the first time because you thought you’d never be able to come back ever again, once we did that, but in terms of teaching I like to point to Congress Park because not only is that the place where John Morrissey established one of his casinos, but it’s where Frederick Law Olmsted, the landscape architect, did some of his work, and he’s the one who designed Central Park. So it’s a nice opportunity to both be in this beautiful place and say “look, this is where all of this cool history happened, it’s really close by, it defines the community that we all live in, and you can go and visit it, and see it.” So those are two places that really stand out for me in terms of places that are close by, historical places. JS: Do you think any sites around here are understated, or not as prominent? EM: I am not sure, I think sometimes what happens is that people don’t always remember that they’re surrounded by history, and one of the activities that I have students do in my public history class is just take a day and walk around the downtown and look around at it, and look at the architecture, and look at the dates on the buildings, and a place like Broadway I think has a really interesting history that people don’t always think about because they don’t go down there thinking about the history, they think about the shopping, or going to the bookstore or going out to eat, and if we stop and kind of just sit and look around and say “that is, I had not thought about it in historical terms,” you can see how that type of history in everyday life is just more important and more prominent than people often recognize. One thing I like to do too is have students try and follow the railroad tracks, if you go down in front of, they run past �the movie theater, and they run past to the grocery store downtown, that they’ve been laid out so that you can walk the railroad tracks, and when you do something like that you get a sense of how the city has changed. So in terms of finding places that are often overlooked, I like to take a look at the everyday, and say “let’s try and locate this in a historical context.” And if you do that, then you can see how it is that the everyday life that you lead is connected to these broader stories that continue to echo in American history and in a place like Saratoga Springs. JS: Do you think that Broadway and places like that are intentionally designed or presented in a way that makes people think about history? EM: I think it’s getting better, I think that there are efforts on the part of historic preservation in town, and other local historians to say that we need to remember that this history is present, and I don’t think that people always see it, but I think that there is an effort on the part of a lot of local historians to highlight this kind of history as it exists, I just think that people are not programmed to notice it. But there is, I think that there is a real effort in town to try and do this, and it doesn’t make Saratoga Springs unusual, I think you see that in a lot of local communities, it is really hard to break people out of the contemporary mindset and say “this is the past around us,” we’ve got to grasp that, to understand how that past that seems long past is still alive and still shapes the world that we inhabit, I think local historians often have to swim upstream to do that. They do a good job, in Saratoga Springs I think they do a pretty good job but they’re fighting against a tendency of people to think very contemporarily in the way that they understand the world. JS: Do you think that Skidmore students are better about recognizing the subtleties of history found out in the world? EM: I think that if they take the time to think about it they can be very good, and I’ve seen this in my own public history class where students have gone out and they’ve really been given the freedom and the encouragement to go out and really think about these more subtle stories and I think that they have the capacity to do that kind of work if they’re given the chance, and I think that some people in environmental studies do prjects like this where they get students out into the community thinking about environmental issues in a way that we as public historians really want our students to do the same kind of thing. I think if Skidmore – one thing I like about Skidmore students is that you guys do almost everything we ask you to do, and if given a chance you will do great things. So it’s about having the opportunity and getting out and getting off the campus, and getting into town and getting to the battlefield and seeing all of these things. And my experience is that when that happens, when I took students up to see Mount MacGregor, it was eye opening. It was transformative for them to actually see the prison that they were talking about in the class. So I have a lot of faith in Skidmore students. JS: You mentioned environmental studies, do you think that… what other fields of study do you think are beneficial to be studied alongside history? EM: Um, I think, I love it when I have students who take anthropology, um because we do very similar kinds of things, we look back, we put bits and pieces together trying to reconstruct lost worlds, so I love when I have students who are archaeologists, who work with people like Heather Hurst, who are able to �bring that point of view into the classes that I teach. I love having students who are able to contextualize cultural issues, in classes, so I love having students who are English majors, or dance majors, or theater majors, and I think theater in particular is a really cool way to think about storytelling which is what we do as historians. So I think anthropologists, political scientists, these other kinds of humanists, bringing them into the history classes can be fantastic, and I’m kind of running on and it’s going to be like “I love having everybody in class!” But I also, I mean the other thing I would say is that it can be really refreshing having physical and natural scientists taking history classes too, because they will bring to the game different kinds of questions, and they are often really… I can see the lightbulb coming on for example when I have environmental studies majors who emphasize the science part of it, taking an environmental history class. So I like having students from all over the place who bring different points of view, and who think in radically different ways but can inform what we talk about in history by what they bring to the class from these different, these different locations. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview James Sutherland Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Eric Morser Location The location of the interview Office of Eric Morser Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data mp3 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. James Sutherland Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 08/03/18 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Eric Morser Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/23/18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource Eric Morser is an associate professor in the Skidmore Department of History, and Faculty Director of Civic Engagement. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sutherland, James. '19 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8db67e735ff753e96e7bbc28ace65b63.jpg b4a9ca3abcd43e8f7239d974c092d082 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/07afd8a62bb886b06666e165efa855b8.pdf c85cab8a986d433b9e431a08a5b79cff PDF Text Text Lawrence Opitz Interview Josh Karen: This is Professor Larry Opitz, professor of theater at Skidmore College, and founder of the Saratoga Shakespeare Company. So first, how did you get involved in the Saratoga and Skidmore communities? Lary Opitz: As far as the Saratoga community goes, it's kind of interesting. I came to Saratoga when I was 26, married and from New York, and I came here ostensibly to spend one year back in 1974. That was the plan because after doing a lot of freelancing in New York in the theater here was this opportunity to get out of New York for a year, make a decent salary where they pay me every two weeks and then come back to New York and go back to work. Ummm the other motivation was a friend was offered a job here or an acquaintance was offered a job here in the theater department and he interviewed, came back to New York and told me you gotta go up there, forget about the job, you gotta see this town, it's beautiful, beautiful Victorian architecture, tree-lined wide boulevards, and they'll take good care of you, they'll wine and dine you for the weekend. So I said "what the hell?". So I came up here. Pouring rain, everything was rushed, they wound up offering me a job. And I didn't make a decision, because Barbara, [his wife], wasn't with me, and I wanted to talk to my friend, to see if either of us or both of us really wanted to come up here. Umm, so. Needless to say, we did. I don't know that for many many years I felt much of a connection to the community of Saratoga. I thought of myself, and in some ways still do think of myself as a New Yorker, meaning New York City. Umm still had a lot of family in New York, went down regularly, a lot of my work was in New York, I would travel back and forth all the time. This was where I worked, but, and here's the tension, I was part of the Skidmore community, and I'll talk about that specifically in a moment, but there was very little connection to the Saratoga community. And through the years, I spent a lotta time traveling, when I was a lighting designer, so, even though I had two kids up here, born in '76 and '79, I wasn't that connected with their lives in school, as activities went, because I was so often away, and Barbara was in charge of that. So I didn't feel any strong connection to the community. That didn't change very much for many many years, I wasn't a member of any organization, I think that so what became important was that six or seven years after we had already lived here, we did join what was then, what still is called the Jewish community center, which was uh then an Orthodox congregation. We did it because it was time for the kids to start religious studies, and we had two choices: we had a lot of friends who were members of the reform congregation, we didn't know anybody who was orthodox, we went in and we wound up joining there, and became very involved very quickly, and that was our community. If it wasn't family, it was the Jewish Community Center. So all community activities were focused there really. Ummm I became active in terms of serving on the board, eventually becoming �president, built a new building, and all of those relate to the community, but not the community at large. One thing that changed that was probably some time in the 80's, joining the local chapter of NAACP, but not getting too involved, and again, not a whole lot of things I'd call community involvement. We lived in a very, we still live in a very neat neighborhood, on the east side, and within a two, three block radius, there were a lot of families with kids our age, kids the age of our kids. So that was sort of a tiny little community. In 2000, I was a founding member of Saratoga Shakespeare Company. That tied me into the community more than anything else had to date, and continued working with Saratoga Shakespeare, and people in town knew me from that, from my performances every summer, and then eventually, about six years ago, Barbara and I took over the company, and we have absolutely necessarily, by force, had to become more intimate with the Greater Saratoga community, because we needed to raise money. And again, we see 6,000 people every summer, many of whom are Saratogians, and so we've become very connected with things that we had never been connected with before. But that's, that's been, you know the past 43, 44 years in terms of the community of Saratoga. Skidmore is very different, but even there it's kind of weird. I came up here as a staff member, not a faculty member, though I started teaching immediately, as a lecturer I guess, and I spent a few years here, and all that mattered was the theater, I wasn't involved in campus events very much. What's interesting is that at that time, I was only six years, seven years older than most of my students, the drinking age was 18, there was no stigma at all attached with hanging out with students at parties and drinking, things were very different then, and there was a lot of partying in the theater department. But it was all about the theater and the work in the theater, and theater students and theater faculty. I had no connection with the rest of the campus, other than the occasional friendship that would pop up either because of our kids or just encounters. In, somewhere in 19-, in the late 70's, I was going to leave here for another job, Boston University, that I'd been offered. Decided to stay partially because they offered me a real academic title, and I became an assistant professor with a nice salary raise, and decided to stay, and that meant I had to be more of a community member. Ummm. It took me a long time in the theater department, in meetings, in the theater department, when I was 26, to really participate and voice my opinions. Then I had the challenge of being a faculty member at large at faculty meetings, and speaking up, speaking my opinions in front of the entire faculty. But that was my responsibility, if I wanted to stay here, the goal would be to get tenure. At that time, tenure was not attached to a promotion, now it is. When you're automatically an associate professor, back then, you could get tenure and then you had to go for promotion. So if I wanted to keep my job, and if I wanted to grow in the job, I'd have to be more connected to the community, the college community, which meant serving on college committees, which is doing service for the faculty, but in the process of doing that, you're meeting new faculty members, and developing new relationships. Governance started �becoming more important to me, and standing up and speaking my mind in faculty meetings became very important to me, and I was developing as something of a leader and something of an impassioned speaker, because I am an actor, meanwhile I was taking leadership in the Jewish Community Center, taking leadership in the department in my first term as chair, so I started taking more leadership in the faculty at large, meeting more people, developing more relationships, developing relationships with administrators, and that led to two of my most important, my most important service as a faculty member, which was serving on CAPT, which was the committee on appointments, promotions, and tenure, which has always been considered the senior activity, and I've been on that for two full terms and I was chair of it, and that put me on a position where I had to take a tremendous amount of leadership, because we're not just involved in those decisions, the administration has always dealt with CAPT for other all college issues. When I took over the chair in my last term, which lasted ten years, I had to put all the focus back into the theater department and continue to function as a full faculty member participating in meetings, but most of my service, in recent years, has been in the theater department. That pretty much covers it. JK: So, going back to getting involved in the Skidmore community, over the years that you've been involved in it since you moved up here, how have you seen the community develop and change and what kind of trends have you seen go through it? LO: Yeah, uh, (laughs) some things have changed for the better, and some for the worse, and when we talk about change on campus, we're talking about three different things in my mind: one is changes in the student body, changes in the faculty, and changes in the administration. Umm... I think our students have gotten stronger academically over the years, and that's partially because we've become more selective, partially because I think Skidmore has improved over the years in its offerings and its commitment to education. So, I think there is strength there in students because 40 years ago, 30 years ago, I found our students far more independent and uhh- independent meaning largely independent of the will of their parents, and there was no such phenomenon as helicopter parents, today I'm dealing with students who seem incapable or unwilling to make a decision without calling home almost every day, if not every day. Those two things, there's a tension there, remarkable change. And I've seen it in the theater too, that um, there was a period, 20 years ago, 15 years ago where rarely would I pick up the New York Times and not see something that one of our students was doing. Now in the past 5 years, that's fallen off a bit, our students are going out and forming their own theater companies, more than they have in the last 10 years. Again, that has to do in part with independence, and taking control of your own life. In the faculty, the, there was a greater sense of independence and strength in the faculty, 40 years ago, 30 years ago than �there is now. There was always a tension between the will of the faculty and the goals of the administration. Now we all were pulling for Skidmore to be the best possible place, but that meant different things in different times to different, to the faculty and the administration. And I felt that there was much more independent thinking on the part of faculty years ago, now it seems that young faculty straight out of PhD programs are concerned primarily with getting tenure, obviously always an issue, but it seems to be the foremost though upon getting here, "what do I have to do to get tenure in six years, seven years", and there's a tendency, in part because of that, to be less confrontational with the administration, to stand up for things, principles when there's disagreement with the administration. So, I think the faculty in general have gotten more sheepish, more willing to deal with the administration as, as, as, as parents, and taking less responsibility for leadership. And in the part of administration over the years, what I've seen, and this is not unusual, it's every college, is what's typically called administrative bloat, where the size of the faculty has only in recent years grown in considerable ways, but nothing compared with the explosion in the size of the administration. Things that were done by two or three people, 30 years ago, now are done by 8 people. Everybody's got an assistant. The work has not... in some areas the work has grown, computers, library, external forces like the demands for assessment have required us to expand administration in various ways, but in general, it just, and as a result of that in part is ore turnover than there ever used to be, 30 years ago 40 years ago, if I needed to borrow a truck from the campus, I'd call up a friend who ran the motor pool, or whatever we called it then, the physical plant, I'd say "Jerry, I need a truck for the weekend, any problems?" "No, pick it up whenever you want!". Now, first of all, now the policy has ended. A few years ago, I would have had to go through a ridiculous amount of rigmarole, now some of that's external, insurance, stuff like that, but, you used to pick up a phone, call somebody and get the person on the phone, not an answering machine, a person who you knew by their first name, and you helped one another. Now, the phone won't be answered, you'll get a machine more often than not, you're calling a person to deal with a problem and you don't know who that person is because they've replaced the last two people since you knew the person, so it's become a less personable place to be, and I have regrets for that, it used to be much more, it used to be much smaller and more of a family, and I miss that. That seems to be at odds with that I was saying about my connection to the community, to the college community, but I was differentiating between you know my job as a professor as opposed to my life in the community and you know, you just knew everybody, and yeah we talked about secretaries then, not administrative assistants, but you knew most of them, and they spent many years here, their families grew up here, they had relatives in the area, they retired here, and those days are long gone, and this is part of society, we've become more mobile, so we move around a lot more, we change jobs a lot more than people used to. But the result of that is, there's a breakdown in community. �JK: And on that note, do you think the general identity throughout Skidmore and its community has shifted over the years or changed in any way since when you first got here? LO: Yeah, again, both good and bad, I think we've become more socially conscious, as has higher education in general, and that's a good thing, but I feel less connected with students, and maybe that's partially because of age, I feel less connected than I used to. As far as the Saratoga community goes, it's grown, but not outrageously. What's changed more than anything else in the demographics is the influx of ummm people who've- this always was something of a bedroom community for Albany, so you had a lot of people whose lives were in Albany but wanted to live further away. About 30 years ago, these multimillion dollar housing developments started popping up around, we started getting people who spent half their week in New York City and half the week up here, so 30 years ago, I'd go out to a restaurant, and we eat out a lot, and I'd know everybody, inconceivable not to see people, know the waiters well, know the owners well, well there's turn over in business too, and, but what's astounding is I go to restaurants now and it's not that often I know people there, who are dining there, that, that affects me, it's changed things, even people on the street, don't see people on the street as often, people that I know as often when I'm walking downtown. And then the most recent phenomenon in town is all of the condos that have gone up, multimillion dollar condos, you know, a twobedroom condo for 1.5 million in Saratoga Springs, just who are these people? Um. So, the community has changed primarily I think because of that, uh thankfully downtown has maintained its identity, and that's a terribly important part of downtown. Summers in Saratoga have always been bizarre, because of the track, because of SPAC, for the past 18 years Saratoga Shakespeare has had its effect in town, the balletamens who come up here, the Touts from New York who come to vacation, who spend their lives at Aquaduct and Belmont and come up here for a week or two in the summer, the owners, unlike you know other tracks, the owners come up here for the season, we have the track hands, who are largely Hispanic, who have their lives in the community, we have the Hassidic Jews who come up here in the summer still on war reparations from Germany, its bizarre! � https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/49e05830d484d6edb33e694c02ba61a5.MP3 fb2a9230e4a675d971cfc37c7d723cbf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lawrence Opitz Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/28/18 Description An account of the resource Interview with Professor Lawrence Opitz, professor of theater at Skidmore College, and founder of the Saratoga Shakespeare Company. He came to Saratoga from New York City in 1974. Language A language of the resource Eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Karen, Joshua, '18 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3fe4f85fa2d021aaaa1979ba53f92c24.jpeg a89be8911847e2c39be75c40912864d6 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/22282d1ea4f2320a71a2188b2e01399b.mp3 c2b26302ad27d654558a48670e97fdb2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Samuel Register Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tillman Nechtman Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data .WAV mp3 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 30:56 min Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Samuel Register Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 08/03/18 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Tillman Nechtman Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 21 February, 2018 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore-Saratoga Memory Project Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Register, Samuel '20 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/830109b742f808acb56bb0858fe60c85.jpg c0069a0323c122400b21eb30643d74c0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Office of Communications Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Scope Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Steve Gerritsen, '06 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c05cbd552fa37056d27dce89acff4fa7.mp3 78bd7bed3b9103e6322e53f0beede5e7 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5b9ec5cc331896b10b72dccac4b23d9a.JPG 3cac6b3b978486bf280afc016ae0921d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Moore Hall Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Skidmore College Office of Communications Description An account of the resource Windows Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Steve Gerritsen, '06 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/157b5cd8e8ac2f18a489cb24e41a36e3.jpg 0989777059a6598786199edcf934657d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c34b4f19bb060bee38c19abc1a8ac298.JPG 9108b92bcd0b4cc6ae878d34096a9444 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Moore Hall at Night Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2006 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived http://www.skidmore.edu/scope/summer2006/features/index.htm Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Skidmore College Office of Communications, Scope, Summer 2006 Description An account of the resource Moore Hall at Night Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Steve Gerritsen, '06 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Pink Palace Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 4/29/2015 Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Plumer, Daniel, '16 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Landis, Margie Monosson, Deborah Wilkinson-Hunter, Susan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource (c) Daniel Plumer Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Type The nature or genre of the resource audio recording Abstract A summary of the resource. An audio documentary with reminiscenses by alumnae Margie Landis, Deborah Monosson, and Susan Wilkinson-Hunter, of Moore Hall (32 Union Avenue), more familiarly known to students as "the pink palace." <br /><br />This former residence hall was sold by the College in 2006; a Scope article features&nbsp; <a title="2006 scope article on Moore Hall" href="http://www.skidmore.edu/scope/summer2006/features/index.htm">additional reminiscnes</a>. <br /><br />Accompanying photos show groundbreaking for the building in 1957, and photos of the Hall by John Gerritsen, '06. Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 4/29/2015 Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Daniel Plumer Description An account of the resource Audio doc about Moore Hall (the Pink Palace) by Dan Plumer, '16, made as part of Radio Storytelling, Spring 2015, taught by Eileen McAdam Moore Hall oral history Skidmore story https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/54fa13fbe1bffb57d263092477fa0de9.jpg 81250c6dc37cc300b0817cd658b4119b https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5574f86677273201fd9e94501b2b7af5.mp3 d0486f82144531ff4b83e4a899ac3df7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. J. Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/11/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Neoliberalism Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 29, 2015 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <a title="David Porter Interview (2014)" href="http://ssmp.skidmore.edu/exhibits/show/oral_histories/item/228">David Porter Interview</a> Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Maya Obstfeld Subject The topic of the resource Skidmore College -- Audio Documentary -- Class Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource David Porter Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp3 Type The nature or genre of the resource audio recording https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ba9e0a4a1c18b780829770b2fcb21002.mp3 02c236a9adb5311329626f9efdf25f0f https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d07535096f3ef0b580cda8eea464de2b.jpg fbc61a7d9d9c4d35313132759b71a87e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Relais sur glace, ou abalakov. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource January 18, 2014 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available <a title="Wikimedia File" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Abalakov.jpg">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Abalakov.jpg</a> Description An account of the resource Ice climbing gear taken at 45° 34′ 11.78″ N, 7° 19′ 31.87″ E Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fanny Schertzer Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource J. Dym Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Creative Commons Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. digital photograph Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ice Ice Bébé Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 29, 2016 Description An account of the resource An interview with Skidmore Biology faculty member Erika Schielke by Stephen McCann, '16, as part of Producing Radio Doc, Spring 2015, taught by Eileen McAdam Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stephen McCann Subject The topic of the resource Skidmore College -- Faculty -- Oral History Skidmore College -- Documentary Project -- Student Skidmore College -- Documentary Project -- Audio https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/47184774c197c57c5476db489fcc9e33.jpg 7b475becfcadd023568fc5fcb2966386 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5e6d7c9284fe8d27ef3e6b5d671e5edf.jpg 08714514c54e5527665c941bda1bdf5e https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/286db6ec1970a29caf69293a9298d3b3.jpg 3f58956c94bf292da56835add276057d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c05d460c477a76d27b1b0ca282e6dccd.jpg 17ec9fc8fb7dc75daeb5e83caa0338e4 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f8e777f0934a195ffcbeb124bd05430f.jpg cecc603773b590a927fd74190662637d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/76d70ac09fa775c818b2107a06949dee.zip 509ef38bd2c682b44caee18beb21ba44 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/959e52be13dfc5c495dccd58a9641eda.m4a 9134f652f052c659a2ed1dafe54a7a51 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Barbara Stroock Kaufman Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource August 30, 2015 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rebecca Z Stern '16 Description An account of the resource Barbara Stroock Kaufman '40 studied Studio Art at Skidmore College. Though she never finished her degree, Kaufman continued as a sculptor. Her art, influenced by Asian cultures, decorates Skidmore's memorial garden. In this interview, conducted in her Woodstock, VT home, Kaufman reflects on what Skidmore's art program, housing, and dating culture was like. She is joined by her granddaughter Stacey Gerrish '87. Language A language of the resource Eng. Date Submitted Date of submission of the resource. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Location The location of the interview Woodstock, VT Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Stacey Gerrish Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource August 30, 2015 Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Dym, Jordana Subject The topic of the resource Skidmore College -- alumni -- student days Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Gerrish, Stacey Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource (C) MDOCS Relation A related resource Interview with Ms. Gerrish' grandmother <a title="Barbara Stroock Kaufman" href="http://ssmp.skidmore.edu/document/241" target="_self">Barbara Stroock Kaufman</a> Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio interview Type The nature or genre of the resource oral history Abstract A summary of the resource. An interview with Stacey Gerrish, '87, about her college days at Skidmore College. MDOCS interviewed Ms. Gerrish' grandmother on the same day. Date Copyrighted Date of copyright. 2015 Description An account of the resource An interview with Stacey Gerrish, '87, about her college days at Skidmore College. MDOCS interviewed Ms. Gerrish' grandmother on the same day. Ms. Gerrish talked about teaching a friend to drive, her work reading the news at WSPN and other memories. alumna alumni interview oral history WSPN https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/663c25ec77037450f44f1f9dae2afb40.jpg 01b0669d457b30039b2a36be49493e93 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/a017eba25096fa3e216bba35967639f4.mp3 a96bc52d4c2728f18d6de80f28018cb9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rimmele Wood Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 18/12/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Stories of Preserving our Past: Travel Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource December 18, 2020 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/11f6298e2df52f9ec42f88c6a7381845.mp3 356b68f538704350663f83ab881c998d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rimmele Wood Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Rachel Clothier Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Malta in the 1960s with Rachel Clothier Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource December 2020 Description An account of the resource Rachel Clothier describes growing up in Cold War Malta, New York. Excerpt from her interview with Rimmele Wood Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wood, Rimmele Clothier, Rachel https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/a90cdf911c898a807f1fd7dc1ecb4796.jpeg 9b4c193c5896a1cdb32a209aa363254b https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/b0d43b5b6363539c537325330ebc6dce.jpeg 69fc13aae0e5fc82e33c1204c1c7765c https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ca5b381108ea9b28101cb89d8d3160ff.m4a ba88612f8fd8d0bf1cca1bdf0cbdb0e1 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6f662762fd131eea6fd87629d833d9e5.pdf d01ba86005b38220c567eb49f1acbb85 PDF Text Text February  11th,  2018   Chris  Cocchi  (interviewer)   Dave  Paterson  (interviewee)   Skidmore  College,  Scribner  Library     Christopher  Cocchi:  Ok,  testing  1,2,3.  I  think  its  working.  Ok!  So  uh,  first  thing  is  that,  uh  do  you,   just  to  go  over  uh,  verbal  consent,  uh  do  you  agree  to  what  you  signed  before  about,  you  know,   hav-­‐  lending  your  voice  to  the  uh,  Saratoga  or  Skidmore  Memory  Project  [Skidmore  Saratoga   Memory  Project  (SSMP)]  and  uh,  you  know,  letting  it  be  used  online  and  whatnot?     Dave  Paterson:  I  do.     CC:  Cool,  thank  you.  Anyway,  first  things  first  I  just  have  to  record  just  the  empty  the  noise  here   so  that  they  can  edit  it  out  so  I'm  just  gonna  be  silent  for  about  a  few  seconds  here     [Pause]     CC:  Ok,  so  for  the  record,  my  name  is  Christopher  Cocchi,  I'm  here  with  Dave  Paterson,  in  the   Skidmore  Library  in  the  Media  Viewing  room,  and  I'm  interviewing  him  for  the  Public  History  in   Skidmore  with  Professor  [Jordana]  Dym.  So  uh,  I  guess,  to  begin,  uh,  what's  uh,  just  tell  me   about  yourself,  like  uh,  when  were  you  born  or  like  where  did  you  live  growing  up?     DP:  Ok,  I  was  born  in  south  Boston-­‐   CC:  Um  hm.   DP:-­‐in  1954.   CC:  Um  hm.   DP  :  And,  uh,  I've  been  in  Saratoga  [Springs]  for  the  last  47  years.  I've  taught  for  over  30  years  at   the  [Saratoga  Springs]  high  school  here,  [as  the]  Social  Studies  department  head,  and   overlapping  15  years  at  The  University  at  Albany.  Uh,  in  the  midst  of  all  that  teaching  of  I  was   also  President  of  the  Saratoga  Springs  History  Museum,  and  for  19  years  a  friend  of  mine  and  I   have  run  a  company  called  Saratoga  Tours,  where  we  give  historic  tours  of  Saratoga  Springs.     CC:  Ok  cool.  So  uh,  what  got  you  interested  in  history  in  the  first  place?     DP:  Probably  my  8th  grade  history  teacher,  uh,  Mr.Curren  [SP?],  and  uh,  he's  the  first  one  who   made  who  made  it  more  about  how  and  why  instead  of,  memorizing    who,  what,  when,  and   where  and  dates  and  all  those,  and  uh,  I  always  liked  to  read.  And  once  I  started  reading   history,  then  I  wanted  to  read  more,  it's  like,  now  I'm  writing  for  Saratoga  Living  Magazine,  I   think  the  new,  the  new  relaunch  of  the  magazine  just  came  out  a  couple  days  ago,  and  I  have   an  article  in  there  that  I  wrote  for  them  about  the  blizzard  of  1888  when  we  got  57  inches  of   snow.  But  while  I  was  researching  that,  and  reading  up  on  that,  then  I  found  a  bunch  more   questions  I  wanted  answers  to  so  then  I  go  off  on-­‐  and  that's  the  great  thing  about  history,   you're  never  done.     �CC:  Um  hm.  That's  very  cool.  Now  uh,  where  did  you  go  after  your,  uh,  experience  in  public   school,  like  which  university  did  you  [DP  starts  speaking]  go  to  from  there?     DP:  Oh,  uh  college-­‐wise  I  was  at  the,  first  was  at  the  University  of  Miami.   CC:  Um  hm.   DP:  Uh,  I  was  playing  Baseball  also  at  the  time  so  I  left  Miami,  um  I  ended  up  getting  degrees   from  Boston  College,  uh,  University  at  Albany,  and  [  The  College  of]  Saint  Rose.     CC:  Ok  cool.  And  what  was  your  first  experience  out  of  college?     DP:  [Deep  breath]  [You]  mean  work  wise?   CC:  Yeah.   DP:  I  taught  for  half  a  year  in  Rutland,  Vermont.  I  was  the  fourth  teacher  they  had  hired,   because  the  7th  and  8th  graders  were  driving  all  the  substitute  people  crazy,  and  I  remember  I   started  in  February,  oh  I  think  1980,  and  I  get  through  the  rest  of  the  school  year  with  them,   and  a  matter  of  fact,  on  like  the  second  the  second  to  last  week  of  school,  the  assistant   superintendent  asked  me  if  I  was  available  to  come  back  an-­‐  oh-­‐  then  next  year  and  I  said  I  was.   And  he  said  they  were  going  to  give  me  like  a  "The  8th  grade  teacher  of  the  year  award"  and  I   said  oh  this  is  great,  and  then  the  next  week  I  got  laid  off!   CC:  Oh!   DP:  [Laughs]  So  I  was  going  to  go  back  to  Boston  and  open  up  a  sporting  goods  store,  and  uh,   on  my  way  down  through,  I  had  interviewed  at  Saratoga  High  School  before,  but  they  already   had  a  position  filled,  on  my  way  down-­‐  I  was  packing  up  my  car  literally,  on  the  day  I  was  going   to  go  to  Boston,  when  Saratoga  called  and  said  "we  have  an  opening,  do  you  want  to  come  up   and  interview?"  [Unsure  mumble]  I  said  ok,  I  will.  So  I  went  up,  they  hired  me,  and  I've  been   there  for  the  last  40  years.     CC:  Uh,  so,  what  was  your-­‐  what  was-­‐  wh-­‐  what  was  your  teaching  at  Saratoga  High  [School]?     DP:  Uh,  really  good.  Uh,  Saratoga  [Springs]'s  a  really  good  school  district.  Uh,  I  taught   everything  you  can  teach  in  the  Social  Studies  from  grades  7  to  12.  Every  level  of  student,  from   the  weakest  kids  we  had,  a  lot  of  kids  with  special  needs,  up  to  the  Advanced  Placement   courses,  uh  I  think  I  was  only  the  2nd  Advance  Placement  U.S.  History  teacher  in  the  county   when  we  started  that  program.  Um,  I  also  taught  in  summer  school  I  taught  phys.  ed.  [Physical   Education],  I  taught  English,  Social  Studies,  so,  but,  you  know,  all  in  all  a  terrific  experience.   Great  kids.     CC:  So,  how-­‐  did  anything  change  over  the  years  that  you  were  teaching  History  at  Saratoga   High  School?     DP:  [Deep  breath]  Well,  [pause]  that's  one  of  the  great  things  about  history,  things  do  change  as   time  goes  on,  um  the  first  kids  I  taught  in  the  1980's,  I  don't  know  if  you'll  remember  Chris  but   there  used  to  be  a  show  on  TV,  a  TV  show  in  the  80's  called  "Family  Ties".   CC:  Um  hmm.   �DP:  And  most  of  the  kids  in  the  80's  were  a  lot  like  that  Alex  P.  Keaton  character.  You  know,   they  were  the  Michael  Fox  character,  um,  very  preppy  kind  of  thing,  and  we  went  through  ph-­‐ phase  for  a  while,  but  then  we  get  into  a  phase  where  uh,  everybody  was  getting  piercings   everywhere,  and  then  we  got  into  a  phase  where  the  clothes  got  kinda  wild,  and  then  it  went   back  to  more  conservative  dress.  So  it's  kinda  been  all  over  the  place,  and  uh,  its  interesting   because  towards  the  end  of  my  career  I  noticed  I  was  teaching  a  lot  of  the  sons  and  daughters   of  kids  I  taught  30  years  before.     CC:  Did  uh  the  material  you  taught  change  at  all  or  was  it  pretty  consistent?     DP:  Well  the  tough  thing  with  History  is-­‐  and  Math  teachers  don't  understand  this-­‐  um,  there's   a  finite  amount  of  information  to  teach  in  the  AP  [Advanced  Placement]  or  Regents   [Examinations]  Math  or  Science  courses,  so  they  can  usually  schedule  their  courses  to  end,  let's   say,  mid-­‐May,  or  early  May,  which  will  give  them  to  review  for  either  the  AP  exam  or  the   Regents.  Well,  History  just  gets  added  onto  every  year.  So,  for  example  when  we  get  to  2001,   you  can't  leave  out  9/11,  that's  too  important  [of]  a  piece  of  history.  So  as  you  add  things  in,   you  have  to  edit  other  things  that  you've  been  teaching  over  time.  So,  you  figure,  when  I   started,  was  the  first  year  Reagan,  Ro-­‐Ro  Ronald  Reagan  was  president,  um  when  I  ended   [Barack]  Obama  was  president.  Well,  a  lot  changed,  and  then  you  gotta  teach  all  that.  So,  the   amount  I  had  to  teach  changed,  and  I  think  my  methods  of  teaching  changed.     CC:  Could  you  go  into  that,  like  wh-­‐wh-­‐  how  did  your  methods  change?     DP:  Well,  [Cough]  education  isn't  a  once  size  fit  all,  I  don't  think,  although  I-­‐it  does  make  me   laugh  because  [the]  New  York  Department  of  Education  continually  talks  about  differentiated   instruction,  which  is  the  idea  that  every  student  should  be  treated  differently  and  taught   according  to,  you  know,  what  they  can  do.  And  I  agree  with  that  philosophically,  [Cough]  yet   they  want  every  kid  to  sit  down  for  same  Regents  exam,  whether  you  live  in  Long  Island,  or   Brooklyn,  or  Saratoga  Springs.  And  to  me  that  is  a  little  ridiculous.  I  never  had  a  student  fail  a   state  test,  but  I  think  the  reason  for  that  is,  because  even  with  lowest  level  kids  I  taught,  I   always  treated  Social  Studies,  and  I  think  it's  true  of  any  subject  [test],  as  a  vocabulary  test.  As   long  the  kids  understand  what  the  questions  are  at  the  end  of  the  year,  they  can  answer  them.   What  happens  is  a  lot  of  teachers  think  they're  being  a  good  teacher,  what  they'll  do  something   like  this,  they'll  say,  I'll  be  teaching  a  class  and  I'll  say  "Ok,  so  were  when  the  immigrants  were   coming  into  New  York  City,  and  they  were  being  processed,  and  they  were  slowly  getting   accepted  and  they  got  jobs  in  factories,  and  they  started  to  learn  the  English  language,  and   customs  in  America,  that's  called  Assimilation."  Well  some  teachers,  thinking  they're  just  trying   to  help  the  kids,  will  just  refer  to  it  as  "fitting  in",  'cus  the  kids  will  understand  it  better.  The   problem  is  when  they  get  to  the  Regents  exam,  the  Regents  uses  the  word  "assimilation",  and  if   a  student  doesn't  associate  the  word  assimilation  with  the  immigrant  experience,  they're  not   going  to  get  the  question  right.  So  I  learned  early  on  that  vocabulary  was  an  important  part.   Also  early  on  when  I  was  teaching  it  was  a  lot  more  chalk  talk  lecturing,  as  then  as  time  when   the  technology  get  so  good  with  the  Smartboards  and  things,  I  could  work  in,  instead  of  telling   �kids  about  Martin  Luther  Kings'  [Jr.]  "I  Have  a  Dream"  speech,  I  can  play  them  a  quick  5  minute   excerpt,  I  can  show  them  an  inauguration,  um,  so  that  was  good.     CC:  Ok,  uh  do  you  have  any  like,  uh  stories  from  any  particular  incidences  [incidents]  from  your   time  in  the  [Saratoga]  high  school?     DP:  [Laughs]  Stories  relative  to  what?     CC:  I  guess  like  for  instance  like,  did  you  ever  have  like  a  student  that  like,  made  you  think  "Hey,   you  know,  this  might  be  an  interesting  way  to  teach  it  next  time."  Or  did  a  teacher  come  up  to   you  and  say  something  that  like,  made  think  of,  like...     DP:  Oh  several  times,  I  think  most  of  the  times  the  changes  I've  made  in  my  teaching  methods   over  the  years  came  from  a  feedback  I  got  from  students.  Um,  because  you  a  different  group  of   students  every  year,  and  they  come  at  things  from  a  different  perspective.  Uh,  one  of  my   favorite  students  ever  was  a  young  man  who  came  up  to  me  and  said,  he  was  very  nice,  he  was   thanking  me  for  the  course,  for  teaching  the  course,  for  teaching  the  course  and  everything,   and  then  he  said  "You  know  what  I  really  liked  a  lot  was  when  we  worked  in  groups."  And  I   hadn't  really  been  too  big  on  group  projects,  but  for  the  next  years  I  took  a  couple  of  the  units   and  I  made  them  group  projects  things,  and  all  of  them-­‐  well  not  all  of  them-­‐  most  of  the  kids   really  seem  to  like  it.  So  then  the  next  year  I  did  a  little  more  of  that,  and-­‐and  that  happened  a   few  times  in  my  career,  he's  now  a  very  successful  doctor  at  a  Mass.  General  Boston   [Massachusetts  General  Hospital  at  Boston].     CC:  Cool.  Uh,  so  what  was  like-­‐  wh-­‐what  was  life  like  living  in  Saratoga  [Springs]  at  the  time,  'cus   you  were  new  to  the  area,  correct?     DP:  Yeah  Saratoga  [Springs]  is  uh  [small  pause]  it's  an  interesting  city.  Uh  when  I  first  moved  up   here,  there  seemed  to  me  there  was  a  strong  feeling  like  Broadway  was  the  dividing  line  in  the   city.  And,  briefly  when  I  first  moved  here  I  lived  in  an  apartment  on  the  east  side  of  Broadway.   And,  but  for  most  of  the  time  I've  been  here  I  lived  in  a  house  on  the  west  side.  And  it  seemed   to  me  in  maybe  the  first  10  years  I  lived  here,  there  was  a  dividing  line  between  the  people  of   west  Saratoga  [Springs],  west  of  Broadway  and  east  of  Broadway,  and  so,  of  course  I  got  curious   and  I  started  doing  research  and  talking  to  people,  and  uh  the  [Saratoga]  High  School  used  to   be,  way  back  when,  over  where  uh,  uh  Lake  Ave.  [Avenue]  Elementary  School  is.  So  the  kids   from  [the]  West  side  of  Saratoga  [Springs]  had  a  longer  walk  than  the  kids  from  the  east  side  of   Saratoga  [Springs],  and  there  was  a  train  that  cut  the  path,  they  went  by  where  the  Price   Chopper  is,  Railroad  Place  [Aparements].  So,  the  kids  from  the  West  side  had  to  time-­‐  since   they  used  to  let  them  home  for  lunch-­‐  but  you  had  to  time  it  right  so  the  train  wasn't  holding   you  up.  Um,  and  o-­‐  and  then  the  trains  disappeared  and  all  that,  but  that  "feeling"  seemed  to   stay  with  a  lot  of  old-­‐timers.  So  that  was  interesting  to  me.  That's  now  changed,  I  don't  feel  that   now.  Saratoga  [Springs]  is  uh,  I  think-­‐  I  think  I  read  that  as  of  two  years  ago,  for  the  first  time,   there  are  now  more  people  living  in  Saratoga  [Springs]  who  weren't  born  here  than  were  born   here,  so  that's  a  big  change  in  that.  Um,  but  Saratoga  [Springs]  you  know,  you  look  at  its  over   �the  years,  it  reinvents  itself  all  the  time.  And  I  think  it's  done  that  when  the  [Saratoga]  City   Center  came  about  in  1984,  Saratoga  [Springs]  got  revitalized,  and  boy,  where  else  would  you   want  to  be  now?     CC:  Um  hm,  so,  how  do  you  think  the  people  of  Saratoga  [Springs]  changed  during  your  time   uh-­‐   DP:  The  time  I've  been  here?   CC:  Um  hm.   DP:  [Deep  breath,  pause]  Well,  I-­‐I  thought  it  was  noteworthy  that  a  couple  years  ago  Saratoga   [Springs]  get  [got]  named  the  "Friendliest  city  in  New  York",  'cus  I  think  the  people  are  very   friendly.  Um,  we're  also  very  also  very  much  Wonderbread,  in  the  sense  that  we're-­‐  like,  I  don't   know  what  we  are,  90%  Caucasian  or  something,  so  its  been  nice  to  see  an  influx  of  minorities   into  the  city  of  Saratoga  Springs,  and  uh-­‐  and  its  been  to  see  the  city  of  Saratoga  Springs  kind  of   incorporating  the  kids  or  the  students  from  Skidmore  more.  Uh,  there  was  a  time  there  were   the  community  town  and  gown  relationships  weren't  that  great.  But  I  think  the  college  has   made  an  effort  and  I  think  the  community  has  made  an  effort  to  try  and  get  closer,  and  I  think   that  helps  both  sides.     CC:  I  guess,  is  it  ok  if  you  give  an  example  of  when  times  weren't  good  between  the  community   and  the  college  and  maybe  a  more  recent  example  how  [DP  starts  speaking]  that  kinda  works   for  the  better?     DP:  Ok,  I  have  to  go  into  my  little  history  thing  here  for  you  to  do  that  Chris,  but  I  would  say   this,  there  was  a  time  not  too  long  ago,  I'm  going  to  say  the  1960s,  and  maybe  the  50s  and   maybe  even  the  70s-­‐  but  I  wasn't  here  so  I'm  not  sure,  when  every  year-­‐  'cus  in  those  days   Skidmore  was  uh-­‐  until  the  late  60s-­‐early  70s  Skidmore  was  downtown,  the  campus.  But   whenever  the  Skidmore  kids  came  to  start  a  new  school  year,  li-­‐  businesses  would  have  signs   like  "Welcome  Skidmore  Students"  and  badubub,  you  know,  and  the  whole  community  was  like   "Oh,  we're  happy  to  have  the  Skidmore  kids  back."  Well  when  I  came  here  in  1981  there  was   none  of  that.  As  a  matter  of  fact  there  was  even  some  "We  don't  want  those  Skidmore  kids   down  here,  where  you  got  to  keep  an  eye  on  them,"  and  blahblahblah.  But  now  I've  noticed  in   the  last  few  years  they're  back  to  the  Chamber  of  Commerce  is  talking  again  "Why  don't  we  put   those  signs  up  again?"  Uh,  so  that's  a  good  thing.     CC:  Ok  cool.  So,  I  know  you  mentioned  that  during  this  time  you  became  involved  with  the   [Saratoga  Springs]  History  Museum.     DP:  Yup.   CC:  How  did  that  happen?     DP:  I  think  I  got  involved  with  like  six  or  eight  groups  in  Saratoga  Springs,  but  I  became   president  of  the  [Saratoga  Springs]  History  Museum.  The  reason  was  I  was  down  there  alot,   researching  things-­‐  as  I  said  when  we  started,  as  I  get  questions  on  things  I  have  to  delve  more   into  them.  So  a  lot  of  questions  I  had,  I  always  think  the  best  way  to  teach  history  is-­‐if  I  can  get   the  kids  to  relate  to  it  from  things  that  happened  in  their  community,  then  they  can  kinda  see  it   �with  the  United  States  and  maybe  globally.  So  I  was  in  the  [Saratoga  Springs]  History  Museum   alot  doing  research,  and  at  one  point,  um,  the  director  at  the  time,  asked  me  if  I  would  be   willing  to  join  the  board.  So,  I  did,  I  joined  the  board  at  the  [Saratoga  Springs]  History  Museum,   and  I  learned  alot  from  those  people.  Many  of  them  were  old-­‐timers,  uh,  who  had  been  here   forever.  And  I  just  listened  to  them  tell  their  stories.  Fascinating.  So,  then  that  director  left,  and   I  was  one  of  the  people  in  charge  of  finding  the  new  director.  So  the  person  we  ended  up  hiring   was  Jamie  Parillo  [James  D.  Parillo],  he's  still  the  director  there  now,  young  guy,  he  had  worked   at  Saratoga  National  Battlefield  [Saratoga  Battlefield,  part  of  the  Saratoga  National  Historical   Park].  Um,  once  Jamie  came  on  board  he  brought  kind  of  a  youthful  exuberance  to  it.  As  a   matter  of  fact  we  started  a  program  where-­‐  'cus  I  said,  "We  gotta  reach  out  kids  more."  So  we   started  something  that  hadn't  been  done  before,  it  was  a  Junior  Membership,  so  that  any  kid   who  wanted  to  be  a  member  of  the  [Saratoga  Springs]  History  Museum,  basically  got  a  free   membership.  So  they  got  a  membership  card,  and  any  time  they  wanted  to  go  to  the  museum   to  check  things  out  or  research,  they  could  go  down  there.  So  I  thought  that  was  good.  Uh,   when  I  first  became  president  of  the  museum,  we  were  suffering  a  little  bit  because  uh,   financially,  cus'  we're  dependent,  the  museum  is  dependent  of  grants  and  donations,  uh  and,   uh  an  antiques  show  they  had  once  a  year.  And  they  were  struggling,  and  we  were  in  the  red,   we  were  in  debt.  And  I'm  happy  to  say  that  by  the  time  I  left  as  president  we  were  in  the  black,   we  were  showing  a  profit.  And  I  think  they  are  doing  fine  now.  Um,  so  all-­‐all  of  that  was  a  good   experience.       CC:  So  what  did  you  do  at  the  [Saratoga  Springs]  History  museum?  You  were  on  the  board-­‐   DP:  Yup.   CC:  You  helped  with  the  director  [search],  so  what  else  did  you  do  there?     DP:  Well  when-­‐  it's  easier  to  say  when  I  was  president  of  the  board,  because  when  I  was  on  the   board  I  was  doing  whatever  the  president  at  the  time  wanted  to  do  or  the  director,  and  it   wasn't  that  much.  When  I  became  president,  I  thought  to  myself,  "Saratoga  [Springs]  history  is   so  great,  there's  so  much  here."  Um,  "And  this  museum  is  so  great,  it's  the  oldest  museum  in   the  city."  So  I  had  every  member  of  the  board  pick  a  month  of  the  year,  and  whatever  month   they  picked  they  put  on  a  program  for  the  public  on  some  aspect  of  Saratoga  [Springs]  history.   And  we  had  everything  from  board  members  reenacting  plays,  to  doing  readings,  to  just  telling   the  history  of  the  potato  chip,  uh  all-­‐  but  all  of  them  learned  more  about  the  museum  and   about  Saratoga's  [Springs']  history  by  doing  that.  So  when  their  time  came  up  to  leave  the   board,  a  lot  of  them  wanted  to  stay  on  because  now  they  felt  more  invested  in  it.  So  I  was  very   proud  of  that.     CC:  Ok,  so  who  do  you  think  the  community  interacts  with  the  museum,  maybe  first,  when  you   first  came  on,  and  maybe  today,  too  as  well?     DP:  When  I  first  came  on  I  had  the  feeling  that  the-­‐  and  at  the  time  the  proper  name  of  it  was   the  "Saratoga  Springs  Historical  Society",  and  that  sounds  a  little  puffy,  a  little  high-­‐brow,  and   that's  kinda  how  I  though  the  museum  was.  Um,  like  appealing  only  to  old  money,  and  not  a   place  that  would  be  welcoming  to  like  a  young  family  in  Geyser  Crest  [a  neighborhood  in   �Saratoga  Springs],  or  any  student  anywhere  in  the  city,  even  at  Skidmore.  Uh,  the  other  good   thing  we  did,  by  the  way,  over  time  was  that  we  started  bringing  in  Skidmore  interns,  which   were  great,  because  they  were  learning  history  but  they  also  gave  us  good,  young  ideas  and   they're  good  with  the  technology.  But  I  think  when  I  first  came  here,  all  the  museums  in  the  city   were  c  -­‐were  like  uh,  only  for  you  know  that  little  percent  at  the  top,  at  least  that  was  the   perception.  And  I  think  now,  I  think  we  have  11  museums  in  the  city,  I  think  now  they're  a  little   more...  they're  perceived  to  be  more  accessible  by  more  people.     CC:  Ok.  I  guess  if  there  was  one  thing  that  you  really  liked  about  both  the  High  School  in   Saratoga  [Springs]  and  the  museums,  what  would  that  be?     DP:  The  people.  Um,  the  museum  and  the  community  has  wonderful  volunteers,  uh  anytime     something  comes  up  or  somebody  needs  something  or  group  needs  something,  I've  seen  the   people  of  Saratoga  Springs  step  right  up  and  get  into  it.  Um,  I  know  on  the  Skidmore  Campus   you  guys  have  a  program  called  "Skidmore  Cares"  where  I've  seen  you  out  raking  leaves  for   senior  citizens,  that's  great!  At  Saratoga  High  School  we  had  a  program  in  participation  in   government,  and  one  of  the  sections  of  it  that  I  taught,  that  class,  that  whole  class  for  [high   school]  seniors  was  to  go  out  and  to  contribute  to  the  community  somehow.  And  they  came  up   with  this  great  project,  and  a  matter  of  fact  we  planted  a  vegetable  garden  over  on  the  east   side  of  town,  oh  God  that  was  in  1997,  it's  still  there,  and  they're  still  using  it  for  the  soup   kitchen,  the  vegetables.  [Coughs]  So  I  think  the  people  have  been  really  rere-­‐  same  at  SUNY   Albany  [Sate  University  of  New  York  at  Albany]  when  I  was  down  there,  I  think  the  uh...  and   whenever  people  go  all  pessimistic  about  the  future  or  current  times  and  things,  I  don't,   because  uh,  first  of  all  I  have  historic  perspective  so  I  know  how  history  has  ups  and  downs,  but   I  also  have  great  faith  in  people,  and  I  think  uh,  I  think  people  will  pull  us  through.     CC:  Ok,  I  guess  if  there's  one  thing  you  would  like  to  change  in  some  form  in  the  high  school  or   the  museum  system,  what  would-­‐  what  would  you  like  to  do?     DP:  Change?  Hmm...   [pause]   DP:  Umm....   [long  pause]   DP:  I  have  to  think  about  that  for  a  second.   CC:  Take  your  time,  no  big  deal.   [long  pause]   DP:  Well  there  is  a  lot  of  changes  I  would  like  to  see  made  in  public  education.  I'll  just  give  you  a   couple  of  ideas.  I  would  like  to  see  every  student,  no  matter  what  their  academic  level  is,  take  a   semester  of  BOCES  [Boards  of  Cooperative  Educational  Services  of  New  York  state],  of   vocational  training,  and  learn  how  to  change  oil  in  a  car,  or  change  a  tire,  or...um...  you  know   there's  a  lot  of  options  at  the  vocational  training  school-­‐  or  basic  plumbing  or  carpentry  or   something.  Uh,  I-­‐I  think  we  went  for  a  long  time  in  this  country,  where  we  were  kinda  elitist,   and  we  just  said,  "the  only  people  really  who  are  successful  are  the  people  who  go  to  college,"   and  I  don't  think  that's  true.  We  will  always  needs  craftsmen,  plumbers,  electricians,  and   �actually  in  this  country  right  now  we  have  shortage  of  those.  We  have  a  storage  of  people  who   can  do  this-­‐  I  mean  everyone  wants  to  be  the  next  great  Einstein,  well,  Einstein  still  needs  a   place  to  work  and  someone's  gotta  build  that.  And  um,  so  I  would  like  to  see  more,  a  little  more   emphasis,  an-­‐an-­‐and  not  so  much  snobbery  looking  down  the  nose  at  vocational  training.  So  I   guess  that's  one  thing.  The  second  thing  would  be  ...  [clears  throat]  I'm  not  sure  how  you  do   this  so  Chris  I'll  leave  this  up  to  you,  I  hate  cliques,  it's  the  one  thing  I  hated  the  most  teaching   in  the  [Saratoga]  High  School  all  those  years.  So,  I  would  almost  like  to  see,  I  don't  know  you   would  do  it,  but  some  school  come  up  with  some  system  where  anyone  sits  anywhere,  at  the   cafeteria  table.  It's  not  cliques  all  sitting  together  or  ganging  up  on  somebody.  Because  the   bullying  that  goes  on  now  that's  made  headlines?  That's  gone  on  forever!  And  I  think  it  comes   from  cliques.  And  bullies,  basically,  are  insecure,  and  I  think,  in  a  way,  cliques-­‐  they're  kinda   tribal  in  nature,  they  make  insecure  people  feel  better  if  they're  with  a  bunch  of  other  insecure   people.  So,  I've  always  hated  that.  Now,  we've  had  a  couple  of  classes  there,  class  of  '84,  the   class  of  '90,  the  class  of  '94,  uh  those  three  in  particular  stick  out  to  me  because  they  weren't   cliquey.  Everybody  in  that  class  seemed  to  get  along  with  everybody  else!  And  that  was  great.     CC:  Ok.  Anything  about  the  museums  you  would  like  to  change?     DP:  Uh,  not  I  just  wish  they  would  find  a  way,  or  somebody  would  come  up  with  a  way,  that   more  people  in  town  didn't  feel  intimidated  by  them,  and  would  ch-­‐and  would...  maybe  what   you  do,  I  don't  know  how  you  would  do  this,  if  they  could  get,  uh  an  endowment  of  some  kind,   um,  and  everybody  in  the  city,  for  like,  one  year,  could  just  go  to  any  museum  they  wanted   whenever  they  wanted  for  free,  just  so  people  would  go  and  see  what  we  have  here.  We  have   this  treasury  here,  but  A.  People  don't  wanna-­‐  or  can't  perhaps,  pay  the  money  to  join  the   museum,  or  B.  they  feel  intimidated  because  they  don't  feel  like  they're  welcome  in  the   museum,  and  I-­‐  if  we  can  get  a  more  welcoming  feeling  somehow,  um,  after  we  started  the   program  were  we  get  the-­‐  let  the  kids  be  free  members,  I-­‐I  let  the  kids  put  on  a  program  one   night,  I  think  it  was  in  May  one  year,  on  the  history  of  immigration  into  Saratoga  [Springs],  and   they  did  like  five  different  groups  of  immigrants,  and  they  put  up  an  actual  display.  And  we  left   it  up  in  the  museum  for  the  whole  summer.  People  loved  it!  Uh  but  they-­‐  all  the  words  were   from  the  kids,  the  pictures  were  all  chosen  by  the  kids,  they  put  it  up-­‐  well  we  had  an  opening   night,  and  I  was  hoping  we  might  fifteen  to  twenty  of  the  parents  to  show  up,  this  was  a  class  of   uh,  trying  to  think,  maybe  35  kids  I  had  in  it.  We  had  three  hundred  people  show  up!  Uh  they   were  streaming  out  the  door  and  the  parents  and  the  grandparents  were  so  proud  of  their  kids,   but  the  other  thing  I  noticed  was  so  many  of  them  were  said  [saying]  to  me,  "Hi,  I've  never  been   in  here  before."  And  it  was  great  to  at  least  get  them  in  the  museum.     CC:  Hmm.  So  what  was  it  like  starting  the  tour  uh  company?     DP:  Oh  the  tour  company?  Well,  unbeknownst  to  the  two  of  us,  this  is  with  my  buddy  Charlie   Kuenzel,  Charlie  was  a  science  teacher,  I  had  taught  two  of  three  kids,  and  Charlie  was  doing   tours...  they  weren't  tours,  Charlie  would  take  his  science  classes  around  to  the  springs  to  test   the  mineral  waters,  went  to  rock  formations  in  the  city  like  down  in-­‐  have  you  been,  I  know   you've  been  Chris,  you  know,  High  Rock  Spring?  Where  you  can  see  where  the  earthquake   �caused  the  springs  to  start.  So  he  would  take  his  kids  around  town  to  that.  Well  I  was  trying  to   start,  and  I  eventually  did  start,  a  Saratoga  [Springs]  history  class  for  [high  school]  seniors.  So  I   was  taking  of  groups  of  kids  mostly  down  to  the  casino,  to  the  museum  [the  History  Museum  is   in  the  old  building  of  the  Canfield  Casino],  into  Congress  park  and  tell  them  the  story  of  that.  So   one  day  and  I  thi-­‐  I  wa-­‐  oh,  what  we  did  was  we  each  started,  for  professional  development  for   teachers,  offering  a  two  hour  course  for  teachers  on  the  history  of  Saratoga  Springs.  He  was   doing  it  from  the  science  point  of  view  I  was  doing  it  from  history.  And  somebody  said,  "I  took   Charlie's  course,"  he  took  my  course,  and  somebody  said,  "Why  don't  you  guys  just  do  this   together?"  And  uh,  so  we  said  "Alright,  we'll  try  it."  So  we  started  teaching  that  to  teachers  a   couple  times  together.  We  became  great  friends,  we  hit  it  off  great.  The  science  and  social   studies  and  the  history  meshed,  and  uh,  that's  how  the  tour  business  started.     CC:  Cool,  so  when  did  you  start  that  independent  of  the  school?     DP:  1999,  I-­‐I  think  it's  been  almost  twenty  years.  And  over  that  time  we've  tours  to  uh,  two   hundred  FBI  agents,  the  Second  Circuit  of  Appeals  [United  States  Court  of  Appeals  for  the   Second  Circuit]  including  jus-­‐  including  Justice  [Ruth  Bader]  Ginsburg,  Demi  Lovato  and  her   band,  umm  [pause]  oh  I  mean  any  kind  of  group  you  can  imagine  uh  we've  given  tours  too.     CC:  And  have  you  changed  that  [DP  starts  speaking]  since  you  started?     DP:  Oh  of  course!  We've  worked  with  uh,  Professor  Dym's  classes  here  at  Skidmore,  and  at   Skidmore  orientation.     CC:  Anyway,  have  you  changed  the  tour  over  the  years  as  well?  Or  has  it  [DP  starts  speaking]   remained  pretty  consistent?     DP:  Well  the  nice  thing  is  with  history,  it  really  doesn't  change...   CC:  Um  hm.   DP:  ...and  if  it  does  if  there's  something  wrong.  [laughs]  Um,  but  what  has  happened  over  time   is,  every  year  I've  learned  more  of  the  history  of  Saratoga  [Springs].  Like  I  don't  you're  learning   of  it  ever  stops.  And  so  that's  changed,  a  lot  of  things  have  been  added  to  it,  but  like  I  said   before  with  teaching  a  history  course,  if  you're  adding  more  things  to  it  you  gotta  look  for   things  to  take  out.   CC:  Mm  hm.   DP:  Um,  so  that's  happened.  But  mostly  it's  the  same  as  what  we  did  twenty  years  ago.     CC:  I  guess  has-­‐  have  you  learned  anything  that  surprised  you  recently?     DP:  Oh  all  lot,  um  [pause]  Gideon  Putnam,  came  to  Saratoga  Springs  when  he  was  twenty  five   years  old,  and  his  wife  was  uh  Doanda,  I  think  was  twenty  two  or  twenty  three.  He  is  considered   the  founder  of  Saratoga  Springs,  now  there  were  people  here  before  him,  but  he  was  a   lumberman,  and  he  laid  out  the  village  of  Saratoga,  down-­‐  what  is  now  downtown  Saratoga.  His   wife,  Doanda,  would  whitewash  trees,  put  whitewash  on  trees,  and  then  he,  the  lumberman,   �would  cut  the  trees  down,  and  that's  how  they  made  the  roads.  So,  two  things  having  to  do  him   I  learned  that  I  thought  were  interesting.  One  was,  we  always  thought,  "This  guy  is  a  genius  for   making  a  road  one  hundred  and  forty  seven  feet  wide  in  the  middle  of  the  woods,"  because   today,  I  mean,  it's  great  width,  you  know,  'cus  most  streets  aren't  like  that,  especially  not  in   1789.  Well  it  turns  out  we  found  writings  of  Gideon  Putnam  and  the  reason  the  street  was  that   wide  was  because  he  was  a  lumberman,  and  he  pulled  a  cart  behind  his  horses,  he  would  let   them  back  the  cart  up  without  having  to  make  all  these  fancy  maneuvers,  so  he  could  turn  the   cart  around,  at  one  hundred  and  forty  seven  feet,  and  that's  why  the  road  is  that  wide.  So  it   was  very  practical  but  that  was  interesting.  The  other  thing  about  him  I  thought  was  interesting,   well  two  things,  two  more  things.  One  was,  he  set  up  the  first  school  in  Saratoga,  first  public   school,  he  set  up  the  first  church  in  Saratoga,  both  over  on  Washington  street,  and  he  also  set   up  the  first  burial  ground,  and  unfortunately  he  was  the  first  one  buried  in  the  burial  ground.   And  the  last  thing  about  him  that  I  think  is  interesting  is  that  I  never  knew,  uh  was  that  his  uncle   was  the  founder  of  Marietta,  Ohio,  so  it  must  have  been  in  their  blood.     CC:  Anyway,  I  guess,  since  we're  starting  to  approach  thirty  minutes  here,  I  guess  I'll  leave  off   with  one  question  that,  in  class  we  discussed,  and  then  I  think  as  a  historian  you  might  find   interesting,  we  noticed  that  in  the  town  of  Saratoga  [Springs]  there's  a  lot  of  statues  of  horses,   and  uh  they  have  jockeys  and  there  is  a  Civil  War  solider,  but  there  isn't  really  as  many  statues   as  individuals.  Who  do  you  think  you  would  like  to  see  a  statue  of  in  town?     DP:  Oh!  What  a  good  question.  Professor  Dym.  Uh,  how  about  uh,  let's  see,  "Who  would  I  like   to  see  a  statue  of,"  -­‐  well  interestingly,  of  all  the  people  in  Saratoga  history,  the  one  we  have  no   idea  what  he  looks  like  is  Gideon  Putnam.  Everyone  else  we  at  least  have  a  sketch  or  a   photograph  or  something,  we  have  no  idea  what  he  looks  like.  His  wife  we  have,  his  kids,  but   not  him,  so  I  don't  you  could  do  that  statue.  Uh,  who  would  you  do  a  sat-­‐  want  to  hear  an   interesting  fun  fact  about  Saratoga  Springs?     CC:  Sure!   DP:  Almost  all  of  the  great  things  that  happened  in  the  city  since  1789,  since  Gideon  Putnam,   were  done  by  people  who  moved  here,  not  by  people  who  were  born  here.  That's  fascinating.   Um  alright  so  who  do  we  want  statue  to?   [Long  pause]   Mine  would  be  a  little  bit  controversial,  but  my  statute  would  be  to  John  Morrissey,  John   Morrissey  not  only  built  the  Canfield  Casino,  but  he  founded  the  racetrack  [Saratoga  Race   Course],  and  I  think  most  peop-­‐  and  you  can  make  a  pretty  good  argument,  that  over  the  years,   those  two  things  were  the  two  biggest  attractions  in  Saratoga  Springs.     CC:  Ok  cool,  anyway,  thank  you  for  your  time  today!     DP:  Oh,  thank  you!     � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data .wav Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit The date create the item in euro 8/03/18 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Cocchi, Christopher, 2019 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Paterson, Dave Location The location of the interview Skidmore College, Lucy Scribner Library Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Christopher Cocchi: Ok, testing 1,2,3. I think its working. Ok! So uh, first thing is that, uh do you, just to go over uh, verbal consent, uh do you agree to what you signed before about, you know, hav- lending your voice to the uh, Saratoga or Skidmore Memory Project [Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project (SSMP)] and uh, you know, letting it be used online and whatnot? Dave Paterson: I do. CC: Cool, thank you. Anyway, first things first I just have to record just the empty the noise here so that they can edit it out so I'm just gonna be silent for about a few seconds here [Pause] CC: Ok, so for the record, my name is Christopher Cocchi, I'm here with Dave Paterson, in the Skidmore Library in the Media Viewing room, and I'm interviewing him for the Public History in Skidmore with Professor [Jordana] Dym. So uh, I guess, to begin, uh, what's uh, just tell me about yourself, like uh, when were you born or like where did you live growing up? DP: Ok, I was born in south Boston- CC: Um hm. DP:-in 1954. CC: Um hm. DP : And, uh, I've been in Saratoga [Springs] for the last 47 years. I've taught for over 30 years at the [Saratoga Springs] high school here, [as the] Social Studies department head, and overlapping 15 years at The University at Albany. Uh, in the midst of all that teaching of I was also President of the Saratoga Springs History Museum, and for 19 years a friend of mine and I have run a company called Saratoga Tours, where we give historic tours of Saratoga Springs. CC: Ok cool. So uh, what got you interested in history in the first place? DP: Probably my 8th grade history teacher, uh, Mr.Curren [SP?], and uh, he's the first one who made who made it more about how and why instead of, memorizing who, what, when, and where and dates and all those, and uh, I always liked to read. And once I started reading history, then I wanted to read more, it's like, now I'm writing for Saratoga Living Magazine, I think the new, the new relaunch of the magazine just came out a couple days ago, and I have an article in there that I wrote for them about the blizzard of 1888 when we got 57 inches of snow. But while I was researching that, and reading up on that, then I found a bunch more questions I wanted answers to so then I go off on- and that's the great thing about history, you're never done. CC: Um hm. That's very cool. Now uh, where did you go after your, uh, experience in public school, like which university did you [DP starts speaking] go to from there? DP: Oh, uh college-wise I was at the, first was at the University of Miami. CC: Um hm. DP: Uh, I was playing Baseball also at the time so I left Miami, um I ended up getting degrees from Boston College, uh, University at Albany, and [ The College of] Saint Rose. CC: Ok cool. And what was your first experience out of college? DP: [Deep breath] [You] mean work wise? CC: Yeah. DP: I taught for half a year in Rutland, Vermont. I was the fourth teacher they had hired, because the 7th and 8th graders were driving all the substitute people crazy, and I remember I started in February, oh I think 1980, and I get through the rest of the school year with them, and a matter of fact, on like the second the second to last week of school, the assistant superintendent asked me if I was available to come back an- oh- then next year and I said I was. And he said they were going to give me like a "The 8th grade teacher of the year award" and I said oh this is great, and then the next week I got laid off! CC: Oh! DP: [Laughs] So I was going to go back to Boston and open up a sporting goods store, and uh, on my way down through, I had interviewed at Saratoga High School before, but they already had a position filled, on my way down- I was packing up my car literally, on the day I was going to go to Boston, when Saratoga called and said "we have an opening, do you want to come up and interview?" [Unsure mumble] I said ok, I will. So I went up, they hired me, and I've been there for the last 40 years. CC: Uh, so, what was your- what was- wh- what was your teaching at Saratoga High [School]? DP: Uh, really good. Uh, Saratoga [Springs]'s a really good school district. Uh, I taught everything you can teach in the Social Studies from grades 7 to 12. Every level of student, from the weakest kids we had, a lot of kids with special needs, up to the Advanced Placement courses, uh I think I was only the 2nd Advance Placement U.S. History teacher in the county when we started that program. Um, I also taught in summer school I taught phys. ed. [Physical Education], I taught English, Social Studies, so, but, you know, all in all a terrific experience. Great kids. CC: So, how- did anything change over the years that you were teaching History at Saratoga High School? DP: [Deep breath] Well, [pause] that's one of the great things about history, things do change as time goes on, um the first kids I taught in the 1980's, I don't know if you'll remember Chris but there used to be a show on TV, a TV show in the 80's called "Family Ties". CC: Um hmm. DP: And most of the kids in the 80's were a lot like that Alex P. Keaton character. You know, they were the Michael Fox character, um, very preppy kind of thing, and we went through ph-phase for a while, but then we get into a phase where uh, everybody was getting piercings everywhere, and then we got into a phase where the clothes got kinda wild, and then it went back to more conservative dress. So it's kinda been all over the place, and uh, its interesting because towards the end of my career I noticed I was teaching a lot of the sons and daughters of kids I taught 30 years before. CC: Did uh the material you taught change at all or was it pretty consistent? DP: Well the tough thing with History is- and Math teachers don't understand this- um, there's a finite amount of information to teach in the AP [Advanced Placement] or Regents [Examinations] Math or Science courses, so they can usually schedule their courses to end, let's say, mid-May, or early May, which will give them to review for either the AP exam or the Regents. Well, History just gets added onto every year. So, for example when we get to 2001, you can't leave out 9/11, that's too important [of] a piece of history. So as you add things in, you have to edit other things that you've been teaching over time. So, you figure, when I started, was the first year Reagan, Ro-Ro Ronald Reagan was president, um when I ended [Barack] Obama was president. Well, a lot changed, and then you gotta teach all that. So, the amount I had to teach changed, and I think my methods of teaching changed. CC: Could you go into that, like wh-wh- how did your methods change? DP: Well, [Cough] education isn't a once size fit all, I don't think, although I-it does make me laugh because [the] New York Department of Education continually talks about differentiated instruction, which is the idea that every student should be treated differently and taught according to, you know, what they can do. And I agree with that philosophically, [Cough] yet they want every kid to sit down for same Regents exam, whether you live in Long Island, or Brooklyn, or Saratoga Springs. And to me that is a little ridiculous. I never had a student fail a state test, but I think the reason for that is, because even with lowest level kids I taught, I always treated Social Studies, and I think it's true of any subject [test], as a vocabulary test. As long the kids understand what the questions are at the end of the year, they can answer them. What happens is a lot of teachers think they're being a good teacher, what they'll do something like this, they'll say, I'll be teaching a class and I'll say "Ok, so were when the immigrants were coming into New York City, and they were being processed, and they were slowly getting accepted and they got jobs in factories, and they started to learn the English language, and customs in America, that's called Assimilation." Well some teachers, thinking they're just trying to help the kids, will just refer to it as "fitting in", 'cus the kids will understand it better. The problem is when they get to the Regents exam, the Regents uses the word "assimilation", and if a student doesn't associate the word assimilation with the immigrant experience, they're not going to get the question right. So I learned early on that vocabulary was an important part. Also early on when I was teaching it was a lot more chalk talk lecturing, as then as time when the technology get so good with the Smartboards and things, I could work in, instead of telling kids about Martin Luther Kings' [Jr.] "I Have a Dream" speech, I can play them a quick 5 minute excerpt, I can show them an inauguration, um, so that was good. CC: Ok, uh do you have any like, uh stories from any particular incidences [incidents] from your time in the [Saratoga] high school? DP: [Laughs] Stories relative to what? CC: I guess like for instance like, did you ever have like a student that like, made you think "Hey, you know, this might be an interesting way to teach it next time." Or did a teacher come up to you and say something that like, made think of, like... DP: Oh several times, I think most of the times the changes I've made in my teaching methods over the years came from a feedback I got from students. Um, because you a different group of students every year, and they come at things from a different perspective. Uh, one of my favorite students ever was a young man who came up to me and said, he was very nice, he was thanking me for the course, for teaching the course, for teaching the course and everything, and then he said "You know what I really liked a lot was when we worked in groups." And I hadn't really been too big on group projects, but for the next years I took a couple of the units and I made them group projects things, and all of them- well not all of them- most of the kids really seem to like it. So then the next year I did a little more of that, and-and that happened a few times in my career, he's now a very successful doctor at a Mass. General Boston [Massachusetts General Hospital at Boston]. CC: Cool. Uh, so what was like- wh-what was life like living in Saratoga [Springs] at the time, 'cus you were new to the area, correct? DP: Yeah Saratoga [Springs] is uh [small pause] it's an interesting city. Uh when I first moved up here, there seemed to me there was a strong feeling like Broadway was the dividing line in the city. And, briefly when I first moved here I lived in an apartment on the east side of Broadway. And, but for most of the time I've been here I lived in a house on the west side. And it seemed to me in maybe the first 10 years I lived here, there was a dividing line between the people of west Saratoga [Springs], west of Broadway and east of Broadway, and so, of course I got curious and I started doing research and talking to people, and uh the [Saratoga] High School used to be, way back when, over where uh, uh Lake Ave. [Avenue] Elementary School is. So the kids from [the] West side of Saratoga [Springs] had a longer walk than the kids from the east side of Saratoga [Springs], and there was a train that cut the path, they went by where the Price Chopper is, Railroad Place [Aparements]. So, the kids from the West side had to time- since they used to let them home for lunch- but you had to time it right so the train wasn't holding you up. Um, and o- and then the trains disappeared and all that, but that "feeling" seemed to stay with a lot of old-timers. So that was interesting to me. That's now changed, I don't feel that now. Saratoga [Springs] is uh, I think- I think I read that as of two years ago, for the first time, there are now more people living in Saratoga [Springs] who weren't born here than were born here, so that's a big change in that. Um, but Saratoga [Springs] you know, you look at its over the years, it reinvents itself all the time. And I think it's done that when the [Saratoga] City Center came about in 1984, Saratoga [Springs] got revitalized, and boy, where else would you want to be now? CC: Um hm, so, how do you think the people of Saratoga [Springs] changed during your time uh- DP: The time I've been here? CC: Um hm. DP: [Deep breath, pause] Well, I-I thought it was noteworthy that a couple years ago Saratoga [Springs] get [got] named the "Friendliest city in New York", 'cus I think the people are very friendly. Um, we're also very also very much Wonderbread, in the sense that we're- like, I don't know what we are, 90% Caucasian or something, so its been nice to see an influx of minorities into the city of Saratoga Springs, and uh- and its been to see the city of Saratoga Springs kind of incorporating the kids or the students from Skidmore more. Uh, there was a time there were the community town and gown relationships weren't that great. But I think the college has made an effort and I think the community has made an effort to try and get closer, and I think that helps both sides. CC: I guess, is it ok if you give an example of when times weren't good between the community and the college and maybe a more recent example how [DP starts speaking] that kinda works for the better? DP: Ok, I have to go into my little history thing here for you to do that Chris, but I would say this, there was a time not too long ago, I'm going to say the 1960s, and maybe the 50s and maybe even the 70s- but I wasn't here so I'm not sure, when every year- 'cus in those days Skidmore was uh- until the late 60s-early 70s Skidmore was downtown, the campus. But whenever the Skidmore kids came to start a new school year, li- businesses would have signs like "Welcome Skidmore Students" and badubub, you know, and the whole community was like "Oh, we're happy to have the Skidmore kids back." Well when I came here in 1981 there was none of that. As a matter of fact there was even some "We don't want those Skidmore kids down here, where you got to keep an eye on them," and blahblahblah. But now I've noticed in the last few years they're back to the Chamber of Commerce is talking again "Why don't we put those signs up again?" Uh, so that's a good thing. CC: Ok cool. So, I know you mentioned that during this time you became involved with the [Saratoga Springs] History Museum. DP: Yup. CC: How did that happen? DP: I think I got involved with like six or eight groups in Saratoga Springs, but I became president of the [Saratoga Springs] History Museum. The reason was I was down there alot, researching things- as I said when we started, as I get questions on things I have to delve more into them. So a lot of questions I had, I always think the best way to teach history is-if I can get the kids to relate to it from things that happened in their community, then they can kinda see it with the United States and maybe globally. So I was in the [Saratoga Springs] History Museum alot doing research, and at one point, um, the director at the time, asked me if I would be willing to join the board. So, I did, I joined the board at the [Saratoga Springs] History Museum, and I learned alot from those people. Many of them were old-timers, uh, who had been here forever. And I just listened to them tell their stories. Fascinating. So, then that director left, and I was one of the people in charge of finding the new director. So the person we ended up hiring was Jamie Parillo [James D. Parillo], he's still the director there now, young guy, he had worked at Saratoga National Battlefield [Saratoga Battlefield, part of the Saratoga National Historical Park]. Um, once Jamie came on board he brought kind of a youthful exuberance to it. As a matter of fact we started a program where- 'cus I said, "We gotta reach out kids more." So we started something that hadn't been done before, it was a Junior Membership, so that any kid who wanted to be a member of the [Saratoga Springs] History Museum, basically got a free membership. So they got a membership card, and any time they wanted to go to the museum to check things out or research, they could go down there. So I thought that was good. Uh, when I first became president of the museum, we were suffering a little bit because uh, financially, cus' we're dependent, the museum is dependent of grants and donations, uh and, uh an antiques show they had once a year. And they were struggling, and we were in the red, we were in debt. And I'm happy to say that by the time I left as president we were in the black, we were showing a profit. And I think they are doing fine now. Um, so all-all of that was a good experience. CC: So what did you do at the [Saratoga Springs] History museum? You were on the board- DP: Yup. CC: You helped with the director [search], so what else did you do there? DP: Well when- it's easier to say when I was president of the board, because when I was on the board I was doing whatever the president at the time wanted to do or the director, and it wasn't that much. When I became president, I thought to myself, "Saratoga [Springs] history is so great, there's so much here." Um, "And this museum is so great, it's the oldest museum in the city." So I had every member of the board pick a month of the year, and whatever month they picked they put on a program for the public on some aspect of Saratoga [Springs] history. And we had everything from board members reenacting plays, to doing readings, to just telling the history of the potato chip, uh all- but all of them learned more about the museum and about Saratoga's [Springs'] history by doing that. So when their time came up to leave the board, a lot of them wanted to stay on because now they felt more invested in it. So I was very proud of that. CC: Ok, so who do you think the community interacts with the museum, maybe first, when you first came on, and maybe today, too as well? DP: When I first came on I had the feeling that the- and at the time the proper name of it was the "Saratoga Springs Historical Society", and that sounds a little puffy, a little high-brow, and that's kinda how I though the museum was. Um, like appealing only to old money, and not a place that would be welcoming to like a young family in Geyser Crest [a neighborhood in Saratoga Springs], or any student anywhere in the city, even at Skidmore. Uh, the other good thing we did, by the way, over time was that we started bringing in Skidmore interns, which were great, because they were learning history but they also gave us good, young ideas and they're good with the technology. But I think when I first came here, all the museums in the city were c -were like uh, only for you know that little percent at the top, at least that was the perception. And I think now, I think we have 11 museums in the city, I think now they're a little more... they're perceived to be more accessible by more people. CC: Ok. I guess if there was one thing that you really liked about both the High School in Saratoga [Springs] and the museums, what would that be? DP: The people. Um, the museum and the community has wonderful volunteers, uh anytime something comes up or somebody needs something or group needs something, I've seen the people of Saratoga Springs step right up and get into it. Um, I know on the Skidmore Campus you guys have a program called "Skidmore Cares" where I've seen you out raking leaves for senior citizens, that's great! At Saratoga High School we had a program in participation in government, and one of the sections of it that I taught, that class, that whole class for [high school] seniors was to go out and to contribute to the community somehow. And they came up with this great project, and a matter of fact we planted a vegetable garden over on the east side of town, oh God that was in 1997, it's still there, and they're still using it for the soup kitchen, the vegetables. [Coughs] So I think the people have been really rere- same at SUNY Albany [Sate University of New York at Albany] when I was down there, I think the uh... and whenever people go all pessimistic about the future or current times and things, I don't, because uh, first of all I have historic perspective so I know how history has ups and downs, but I also have great faith in people, and I think uh, I think people will pull us through. CC: Ok, I guess if there's one thing you would like to change in some form in the high school or the museum system, what would- what would you like to do? DP: Change? Hmm... [pause] DP: Umm.... [long pause] DP: I have to think about that for a second. CC: Take your time, no big deal. [long pause] DP: Well there is a lot of changes I would like to see made in public education. I'll just give you a couple of ideas. I would like to see every student, no matter what their academic level is, take a semester of BOCES [Boards of Cooperative Educational Services of New York state], of vocational training, and learn how to change oil in a car, or change a tire, or...um... you know there's a lot of options at the vocational training school- or basic plumbing or carpentry or something. Uh, I-I think we went for a long time in this country, where we were kinda elitist, and we just said, "the only people really who are successful are the people who go to college," and I don't think that's true. We will always needs craftsmen, plumbers, electricians, and actually in this country right now we have shortage of those. We have a storage of people who can do this- I mean everyone wants to be the next great Einstein, well, Einstein still needs a place to work and someone's gotta build that. And um, so I would like to see more, a little more emphasis, an-an-and not so much snobbery looking down the nose at vocational training. So I guess that's one thing. The second thing would be ... [clears throat] I'm not sure how you do this so Chris I'll leave this up to you, I hate cliques, it's the one thing I hated the most teaching in the [Saratoga] High School all those years. So, I would almost like to see, I don't know you would do it, but some school come up with some system where anyone sits anywhere, at the cafeteria table. It's not cliques all sitting together or ganging up on somebody. Because the bullying that goes on now that's made headlines? That's gone on forever! And I think it comes from cliques. And bullies, basically, are insecure, and I think, in a way, cliques- they're kinda tribal in nature, they make insecure people feel better if they're with a bunch of other insecure people. So, I've always hated that. Now, we've had a couple of classes there, class of '84, the class of '90, the class of '94, uh those three in particular stick out to me because they weren't cliquey. Everybody in that class seemed to get along with everybody else! And that was great. CC: Ok. Anything about the museums you would like to change? DP: Uh, not I just wish they would find a way, or somebody would come up with a way, that more people in town didn't feel intimidated by them, and would ch-and would... maybe what you do, I don't know how you would do this, if they could get, uh an endowment of some kind, um, and everybody in the city, for like, one year, could just go to any museum they wanted whenever they wanted for free, just so people would go and see what we have here. We have this treasury here, but A. People don't wanna- or can't perhaps, pay the money to join the museum, or B. they feel intimidated because they don't feel like they're welcome in the museum, and I- if we can get a more welcoming feeling somehow, um, after we started the program were we get the- let the kids be free members, I-I let the kids put on a program one night, I think it was in May one year, on the history of immigration into Saratoga [Springs], and they did like five different groups of immigrants, and they put up an actual display. And we left it up in the museum for the whole summer. People loved it! Uh but they- all the words were from the kids, the pictures were all chosen by the kids, they put it up- well we had an opening night, and I was hoping we might fifteen to twenty of the parents to show up, this was a class of uh, trying to think, maybe 35 kids I had in it. We had three hundred people show up! Uh they were streaming out the door and the parents and the grandparents were so proud of their kids, but the other thing I noticed was so many of them were said [saying] to me, "Hi, I've never been in here before." And it was great to at least get them in the museum. CC: Hmm. So what was it like starting the tour uh company? DP: Oh the tour company? Well, unbeknownst to the two of us, this is with my buddy Charlie Kuenzel, Charlie was a science teacher, I had taught two of three kids, and Charlie was doing tours... they weren't tours, Charlie would take his science classes around to the springs to test the mineral waters, went to rock formations in the city like down in- have you been, I know you've been Chris, you know, High Rock Spring? Where you can see where the earthquake caused the springs to start. So he would take his kids around town to that. Well I was trying to start, and I eventually did start, a Saratoga [Springs] history class for [high school] seniors. So I was taking of groups of kids mostly down to the casino, to the museum [the History Museum is in the old building of the Canfield Casino], into Congress park and tell them the story of that. So one day and I thi- I wa- oh, what we did was we each started, for professional development for teachers, offering a two hour course for teachers on the history of Saratoga Springs. He was doing it from the science point of view I was doing it from history. And somebody said, "I took Charlie's course," he took my course, and somebody said, "Why don't you guys just do this together?" And uh, so we said "Alright, we'll try it." So we started teaching that to teachers a couple times together. We became great friends, we hit it off great. The science and social studies and the history meshed, and uh, that's how the tour business started. CC: Cool, so when did you start that independent of the school? DP: 1999, I-I think it's been almost twenty years. And over that time we've tours to uh, two hundred FBI agents, the Second Circuit of Appeals [United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit] including jus- including Justice [Ruth Bader] Ginsburg, Demi Lovato and her band, umm [pause] oh I mean any kind of group you can imagine uh we've given tours too. CC: And have you changed that [DP starts speaking] since you started? DP: Oh of course! We've worked with uh, Professor Dym's classes here at Skidmore, and at Skidmore orientation. CC: Anyway, have you changed the tour over the years as well? Or has it [DP starts speaking] remained pretty consistent? DP: Well the nice thing is with history, it really doesn't change... CC: Um hm. DP: ...and if it does if there's something wrong. [laughs] Um, but what has happened over time is, every year I've learned more of the history of Saratoga [Springs]. Like I don't you're learning of it ever stops. And so that's changed, a lot of things have been added to it, but like I said before with teaching a history course, if you're adding more things to it you gotta look for things to take out. CC: Mm hm. DP: Um, so that's happened. But mostly it's the same as what we did twenty years ago. CC: I guess has- have you learned anything that surprised you recently? DP: Oh all lot, um [pause] Gideon Putnam, came to Saratoga Springs when he was twenty five years old, and his wife was uh Doanda, I think was twenty two or twenty three. He is considered the founder of Saratoga Springs, now there were people here before him, but he was a lumberman, and he laid out the village of Saratoga, down- what is now downtown Saratoga. His wife, Doanda, would whitewash trees, put whitewash on trees, and then he, the lumberman, would cut the trees down, and that's how they made the roads. So, two things having to do him I learned that I thought were interesting. One was, we always thought, "This guy is a genius for making a road one hundred and forty seven feet wide in the middle of the woods," because today, I mean, it's great width, you know, 'cus most streets aren't like that, especially not in 1789. Well it turns out we found writings of Gideon Putnam and the reason the street was that wide was because he was a lumberman, and he pulled a cart behind his horses, he would let them back the cart up without having to make all these fancy maneuvers, so he could turn the cart around, at one hundred and forty seven feet, and that's why the road is that wide. So it was very practical but that was interesting. The other thing about him I thought was interesting, well two things, two more things. One was, he set up the first school in Saratoga, first public school, he set up the first church in Saratoga, both over on Washington street, and he also set up the first burial ground, and unfortunately he was the first one buried in the burial ground. And the last thing about him that I think is interesting is that I never knew, uh was that his uncle was the founder of Marietta, Ohio, so it must have been in their blood. CC: Anyway, I guess, since we're starting to approach thirty minutes here, I guess I'll leave off with one question that, in class we discussed, and then I think as a historian you might find interesting, we noticed that in the town of Saratoga [Springs] there's a lot of statues of horses, and uh they have jockeys and there is a Civil War solider, but there isn't really as many statues as individuals. Who do you think you would like to see a statue of in town? DP: Oh! What a good question. Professor Dym. Uh, how about uh, let's see, "Who would I like to see a statue of," - well interestingly, of all the people in Saratoga history, the one we have no idea what he looks like is Gideon Putnam. Everyone else we at least have a sketch or a photograph or something, we have no idea what he looks like. His wife we have, his kids, but not him, so I don't you could do that statue. Uh, who would you do a sat- want to hear an interesting fun fact about Saratoga Springs? CC: Sure! DP: Almost all of the great things that happened in the city since 1789, since Gideon Putnam, were done by people who moved here, not by people who were born here. That's fascinating. Um alright so who do we want statue to? [Long pause] Mine would be a little bit controversial, but my statute would be to John Morrissey, John Morrissey not only built the Canfield Casino, but he founded the racetrack [Saratoga Race Course], and I think most peop- and you can make a pretty good argument, that over the years, those two things were the two biggest attractions in Saratoga Springs. CC: Ok cool, anyway, thank you for your time today! DP: Oh, thank you! Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33 Minutes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Dave Paterson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 11th, 2018 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with Dave Paterson, formerly a History Teacher at Saratoga High School and president of the Saratoga Springs History Meusuem, currently a tour guide at Saratoga Tours. In this interview, he discusses his journey to Saratoga Springs, his views on how things have changed, his history of working for the High School and the Museum, as well as what he is still learning today. Language A language of the resource ENG Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cocchi, Christopher, 2019 History Saratoga Springs Saratoga Springs High School Saratoga Springs History Museum Saratoga Tours teaching https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1e03d17a3d411608461e960120b47c22.jpg 4a2d67e662611a0ff5bdfc1db752fcb7 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/88a137a534591b2015e726f027e56e66.mp3 00ba2c6004cb218f70b37a40d39bb7ef https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/635494370061e61f23bb5b61718bc7fb.pdf 6530dd4fd74e4e2a0884173733318118 PDF Text Text Ari  Bogom-­‐Shanon:  Ok,  if  you  wouldn't  mind  just  stating  your  name?       Parker  Diggory:  My  name  is  Parker  Diggory.       ABS:  And  your  title.       PD:  I'm  the  director  of  Religious  and  Spiritual  Life  at  Skidmore  College.       ABS:  Great,  thank  you.  So  we're  here  on  February  16th  in  Parker's  office  at   Skidmore.  So  I'd  like  to  just  start  off  by  asking  about  your  connection  to  Skidmore   College  and  where  that  started  and  what  you  do  here  now.         PD:  Sure,  so  my  connection  to  Skidmore  college  is  really  life  long,  both  of  my  parents   taught  here,  my  father  taught  here  for  I  don't  know,  three  decades  or  more,  and  so  I   knew  the  campus  from  my  earliest  memories.  I  went  to  summer  camp  here  one   summer,  I  had  one  of  my  first  jobs  here  when  the  Tang  opened,  working  there.  Yeah   so  I've  been  connected  to  the  community  in  a  number  of  ways,  coming  to   performances,  things  like  that.  I  took  classes  here  while  I  was  in  high  school  as  a   special  student,  and  then  when  I  left  for  college  and  grad  school  and  all  of  that  I   didn't  have  much  of  a  connection  to  the  campus  for  about  fifteen  years  I  would  say.   And  then,  just  three  years  ago  I  came  back  to  take  on  this  position,  at  first  part  time   and  then  full  time,  and  now  like  I  said  I'm  the  director  of  Religious  and  Spiritual  Life   and  that  means  that  I  work  with  other  offices  in  Campus  Life  and  Engagement  and  in   Student  Affairs  to  support  the  students  primarily  but  really  the  whole  campus  in   their  religious  life,  in  their  search  for  spiritual  connection,  in  their  growing   awareness  of  religion  in  general  in  the  world.               ABS:  Great,  thank  you.  That's  a  bit  about  your  connection  to  Skidmore,  now  I'm   wondering  if  you  can  talk  a  bit  about  your  connection  to  Saratoga,  focusing  on  faith-­‐ based  communities  or  if  there's  like  a  faith-­‐based  journey  that  brought  you  to  this   particular  position  here.         PD:  Sure,  so,  again  born  and  raised  in  Saratoga  Springs.  Um,  went  to  public  schools   here  and  grew  up  in  the  same  church  that  I'm  actually  attending  now,  which  is  the   Presbyterian  New  England  Congregational  Church  on  Circular  Street  in  Saratoga.   And,  it  wasn't  a  very,  hm,  all-­‐encompassing  kind  of  church  life,  where  everything   you  do  and  everything  your  family  does  is  sort  of,  is  connected  to  that  community,   but  it  was  certainly  very  big  in  my  life.  We  went  to  church  a  lot  of  Sundays,  at  least   during  the  school  year.  We  did  volunteer  work  with  them.  That's  where  I  went  to   youth  group  and  went  on  trips  and  so  that  really  was  my  forming—my  formational   community  in  a  lot  of  ways.  It's  where  a  lot  of  my  strongest  friendships  developed,   in  terms  of  you  know  when  I  was  a  teenager,  the  people  who  I  still  speak  to  now  as   an  adult  from  my  childhood  a  lot  of  them  are  people  I  knew  through  church.  And   then  also  that  meant  that  other-­‐-­‐that's  how  I  got  to  know  some  other  religious   �communities.  There  were  some  interfaith  things  that  happen  or  ecumenical  things.   That's  how  I  got  to  know  the  rabbis  at  Temple  Sinai,  because  our  congregation   would  do  things  together,  or,  you  know  there  was  usually  a  Thanksgiving  kind  of   multi-­‐faith  prayer  and  just  event,  community  event,  that  would  happen  and  there   would  be  different  religious  communities  represented  there.  Yeah  so  that,  and  they,   the  church  that  I  was  raised  in,  like  I  said  it's  Presbyterian  and  Congregational  which   are  two  denominations  and  I  personally  am  part  of  the  Presbyterian  denomination   and  that  eventually  became  a  path  for  me  in  terms  of  my  professional  development   in  that  I  went  to  seminary  and  I  am  in  a  sort  of  long,  scenic  route  towards  ordination   in  that  church.               ABS:  You  talked  a  little  about  coming  back  to  the  same  church  community  when  you   came  back  I  was  wondering  if  you  could  expand  on  what  it  was  like  to  come  back  to   this  community  fifteen  years  later.         PD:  Wow,  yeah,  in  many  ways  it  was  just  wonderful  to  be  able  to  come  back  to  my   home  church  community  that  it's,  even  while  I  was  gone  I  would  come  back  for   holidays,  or  if  I  just  happened  to  be  in  town  over  a  weekend  I  would  go  to  church.   The  congregation  helped  support  part  of  my  education,  you  know,  this  was  who  I   kept  in  touch  with  so,  in  some  ways  I  had  never  completely  left.  But,  I  would  say,  I   guess  if  there  was  anything  challenging  about  it,  it  was  that  I  had  grown  in  my  faith   journey  in  ways  that  I  was  a  little  worried  wouldn't  fit  in  to  my  home  church.  That,   our  church  is  known  for  a  really  broad  diversity  of  theological  beliefs  and,  I  just,  I   didn't  have  the  beliefs  as  I  when  I  was  younger  which  it  to  be  expected  but  I  just   wanted  to  make  sure  that  I  was  still  gonna  fit  in  and  they,  they're  so  accepting  of  so   many  beliefs  that  I  knew  intellectually  that  that  would  be  fine,  but  there's  still  that   nervousness  of,  if  I  don't  feel  like  this  is  my  home  church  now,  like  what  would  I   even  do,  because  it's  where  my  parents  go.  I'm  connected  to  so  many  families  there,   if  I  all  of  a  sudden  started  going  to  say  the  Methodist  Church  or  the  Episcopalian   Church  like  people  would  have  questions.  And,  I  never  seriously  considered  not   going,  but  there  were  times  where  I  thought,  if  I  had  moved  to  this  town  as  an  adult   and  had  never  gone  to  any  of  the  churches  in  town,  is  this  the  congregation  I  would   end  up.  And  I  honestly  don't  know.  I  think  it  would  be,  just  because  it's  unique  in  a   lot  of  ways  in  this  town  and  has  a  lot  things  I  look  for,  but  it  was  an  interesting   question  to  think  about.  And  in  other  ways  it's  just  been  good  to  get  back  and  to   church  life  and,  you  know,  I  ended  up  being  nominated  for  the  board  of  the  church   and  church  leadership  so  it's  a  very  different  role  than  I  had  before,  where  I'd  still   get  treated  a  little  bit  as  one  of  the  kids  of  the  church  but  I'm,  I'm  treated  as  an  adult   and  as  a  leader  and  with  expectations  and  responsibilities  which  are  different,   which  I  value.               �ABS:  Thanks  for  sharing.  So  I  think  this  is  maybe  a  little  of  a  transition  into  Skidmore   and  what  that  role  is  like  but  I'm  wondering,  for  you  coming  to  Saratoga  was  really   coming  home  to  you  community  and  you  talked  about  how  we  practice  [sic]  is  so   much  bound  up  with  how  we  grew  up  and  what  communities  we  grew  up  in,  and  for   a  lot  of  people  coming  to  Skidmore  they're  leaving  their  home  communities.  So  I'm   wondering  if  you  thought  at  all  about  that  kind  of  relationship  of  working  with  a   bunch  of  students  here  who  are  leaving  their  home  communities  and  for  you  it's   coming  back  to  your  community  and  if  that  influences  your  role  here.       PD:  Mhm.  Sure,  I  think  it  does.  I  think  one  would  be  I  try  and  use  the  fact  that  I  do   know  this  community  really  well,  this  Saratoga  community  as  a  way  to  connect   students  not  just  by  which  denomination  they're  looking  for  or  you  know,  the  name   of  the  tradition  they're  looking  for,  but  sort  of  getting  to  know  the  personality  of  the   student  and  the  personality  of  the  congregation,  and  being  able  to  say,  you  know,  I   think  you're  really  gonna  like  this  leader,  or,  you  know,  there  are  some  folks  who  go   to  this  particular  service  that  are  looking  at  the  same  questions  that  you're  asking.   And  so,  part  of  it  is  that,  and  I  don't  think  it's  necessary  to  do  my  role  to  have  that   sort  of  historical  knowledge,  but  I've  certainly  tried  to  use  it  that  way.  And  then  the   other  bit  is  that  I  have  to  rely  on  my  own  college  experience  where  I  wasn't  in   Saratoga  Springs,  to  relate  a  little  bit  more  to  what  the  students  are  coming  in  with.   So,  I  went  to  college  in  Middlebury,  Vermont,  and,  you  know,  they  don't  have  a   Presbyterian  church  there  and  so  I  found  the  next  best  thing  for  me  which  was   actually  a  Congregational  Church,  and  I  looked  up  the  worship  times  and  I  went.  I   was  one  of  the  only  students  who  did,  sometimes  my  sister  came,  she  was  at  the   same  school,  and  that  was  it.  And  I  realized  only,  you  know,  months  later  who  else  at   the  school  might  have  some  of  my  similar  religious  beliefs.  That  I  didn't,  I  didn't  find   my  kind  of  on  campus  religious  community  in  some  ways  ever,  but  even  a  small  part   of  it  I  didn't  find  for  a  while.  And  so  I  try  and  hold  on  to  that  experience  and  fill  in   some  of  the  blanks  I  wish  had  been  filled  in  for  me,  as  somebody  who  didn't  really   know  the  landscape.  What  are  some  other  ways  that  influences  things  [pause].  I   think  part  of  it  is  trying  to  ease  the  transition  for  students  not  just  in  the  immediate   religious  sense.  Right,  I  can  reserve  prayer  rooms,  I  can  hold  services,  I  can  bring  in   leaders  and  what-­‐not,  but  there  are  home-­‐y  trappings  of  a  lot  of  people's  religious   lives  that  I'm  not  gonna  be  able  to  completely  replicate  but  I  can  try  and  offer  or   connect  to  or  get  a  taxi  to  or  something.  So  that's  part  of  it  to  is  just  thinking  about   what-­‐-­‐and  asking  the  students-­‐-­‐what  feels  like  home  to  you.  Because  sometimes   when  they're  asking  me  for  support  or  for  access  to  a  community,  you  know  they're   using  category  names  and  they're  using  tradition  names.  But  I  remember,  I  was   studying  abroad,  I  did  a  gap  semester  after  high  school  and  I  was  in  Jamaica,  and  I   went  church  with  my  host  family,  but  sometimes  I  would  go  to  a  church  that  was  a   little  more  like  the  one  I  grew  up  in.  And  I  walked  in  and  they  had  the  same  exact   brass  cross  on  the  altar,  and  I  almost  cried.  And,  it's  that  kind  of  thing  that  I  know   that  will  help  students,  and  it  might  just  take  a  while  to  figure  out  what  that  is.  To   find  that  familiarity.  So  I'm  not  sure  if  that  answers  the-­‐-­‐your  questions.             �   [00:11:25.000]       ABS:  Yeah,  definitely,  wow.  Yeah  it  is  almost  that  search  for  home  that  students   come  in  looking  for.         PD:  Mhm.       ABS:  Ok,  so  you've  been  here  three  years?       PD:  Something  like  that.       ABS:  Something  like  that?  Which  is  pretty  recent.  Can  you  talk  a  little  bit  about  your   first  impressions  of  the  religious  community  at  Skidmore?       PD:  Hm.  Well  I  admit  that  I  had  sort  of  made  some  assumptions  based  on  my   experience  at  a  somewhat  similar  college  and  my  knowledge  of  Skidmore.  So,  I   probably  didn't  come  in  with  a  completely  open  mind  in  terms  of,  just,  what's  my   first  impression,  you  know  completely  blank  slate  kind  of  thing.  It  was  more  that  I   kind  of  assumed  that  it  would  be,  not  the  most  overtly  religious  campus,  that  it   would  be,  um,  you  know  that  religions  that  are  generally  minorities  in  society  would   probably  be  a  little  more  organized  just  by  necessity,  that  we  would  have  a  lot  of   students  who  were  maybe  interested  when  they  went  home  in  still  attending  a   service  or  connecting  with  a  tradition.  But  at  least  while  they  were  at  college  it   didn't  seem  like  a  priority.  And  so  that  was  true,  those  assumptions  were  proved   pretty  true.  I  think  my  impression  was  that  it  was  very  much,  [pause],  first  word   that  comes  to  mind  is  underground,  but  that  has  some  sort  of  like  purposeful  hiding   that  is  only  occasionally  true.  But  that  it  was  below  the  surface,  how  'bout  that,  that   the  religious  life  at  Skidmore  was  and  still  is  to  a  great  extent  something  that   happens  in  a  person  to  person  sort  of  way,  in  a  word  of  mouth  sort  of  way.  It's  not   the  first  thing  you  find  out  about  somebody,  it's  not  the  majority  of  the  events  that   are  advertised.  But  when  you  scratch  the  surface  it's  there.  And  so  part  of  my  job  is   figuring  out  how  much  of  that  under-­‐the-­‐surface-­‐ness  is  actually  fine  and  desirable   and  what  students  and  others  kind  of  want  and  it's  working  really  well  and  how   much  of  it  is  happening  simply  because  there  isn't  another  way.  Um,  what  else  was  I   struck  by.  That's  the  first  thing  that  comes  to  mind.               [00:14:13.783]       ABS:  This  is  a  bit  more  of  just  a  practical  question,  but  could  you  just  talk  a  little  bit   about  the  different  communities  that  are  here,  whether  it's  the  more  above-­‐the-­‐ surface  communities  or  any  below-­‐surface  communities  also?       �PD:  Sure,  so  in  terms  of  named  groups  we  have:  Hillel,  which  is  a  Jewish  student   organization,  broad  spectrum  in  terms  of  tradition.  Because  we  don't  have,  not  just   because,  but  we  don't  have  kosher  offerings  at  Skidmore  and  that  and  other  reasons   mean  that  we  don't  have  a  full  range  of  Jewish  traditions  represented  but  what  does   exist,  the  only  organized  group  at  the  moment  is  Hillel  for  them.  There's  Christian   Fellowship,  Skidmore  Christian  Fellowship,  which  is  a  chapter  of  InterVarsity   Christian  Fellowship,  which  is  a  national  and  sometimes  international  thing,  so  is   Hillel.  And  then  we  have  a  Newman  club,  which  is  for  Catholic  students.  That  has   been  from  semester  to  semester  more  and  less  active.  It's  quite  small,  one  of  the   primary  functions  is  finding  carpools  to  local  Masses,  so  it's  not  one  of  the  more   active  in  terms  of  programming  at  the  moment.  Then  when  I  first  arrived,  and  still,   we  have  Hayat,  which  is  a  cultural  affinity  group,  not  a  religious  affinity  group.  But  it   covers  the  Middle  East  and  South  East  Asia  and  so  they  will  do  cultural  events  that   are  also  religiously  connected  and  things  like  Holi  or  a  Lunar  New  Year's  celebration   sometimes,  although  there  are  also  other  groups  who  do  those.  Eid  dinners  for  the   Muslim  community.  So  that  also  depends  on  who's  in  charge  and  who's  interested  in   supporting  an  event,  but  they  function  in  a  lot  of  ways  independently  from  my  office   and  from  the  Office  of  Student  Diversity  Programming,  but  both  of  our  offices  do   work  with  them.  There's  a  Quaker  group  that  is  not  an  official  club  but  they  get   together  and  through  my  office  they  advertise,  they  meet  every  other  week  and  they   advertise  that  through  my  office  and  I  help  make  them  connections  with  members  of   the  local  Quaker  community.  There  are  bible  studies  that  are  connected  with   Christian  Fellowship  but  I  think  some  of  them  are  attended  by  folks  who  maybe   aren't  involved  in  the  club  more  broadly  but  are  interested  in  going  to  a  bible  study   that  maybe  their  friend  is  leading.  There  is  a  practicing  Zen  gathering  that  doesn't   necessarily  require  you  to  be  a  Zen  practitioner  and  to  identify  as  a  Zen  Buddhist  to   attend,  but  there  are  certainly  folks  who  attend  who  have  been,  who  do  identify  that   way,  both  from  the  community  and  the  faculty  and  every  once  in  a  while  some  of  our   students  as  well.  And  then  there  are  some  students  who  will  get  together  around  a   certain  holiday  or  something  like  that.  There  were  some  Hindu  students  last   semester  who  got  together  to  go  to  a  Temple  for  a  particular  holiday.  And  it  was  sort   of  under  the  auspices  of  my  office,  sort  of  under  the  auspices  of  Hayat.  It  will  sort  of   be  an  ad  hoc  group  for  a  specific  purpose  and  then  they  sort  of  will  dissolve  again.  I   feel  like  I'm  probably  forgetting  something  huge  right  now.  There  are  some  other   groups  that  include  spirituality  and  spiritual  connection  as  part  of  what  they  do  and   who  they  are,  but  they're  less,  I  wouldn't  call  them  affinity  groups  as  much  because   they're  going  to  have  a  much  broader  spectrum  of  beliefs  within  them  and  so,   there's  an  inspirational  choir  called  Rejoice,  and  for  many  of  the  folks  there  there's  a   spiritual  component  to  what  they're  doing  and  what  they're  singing  but  they  sing   songs  from  many  different  traditions.  There's  a  mindful  movement  club  of  students   that  do  everything  from  learning  modern  dance  movement  techniques  to  yoga  to,   um,  I  think  the  circus  club  has  done  some  things  with  them.  So,  again  some  of  the   folks  there  are  regular  yoga  practitioners  and  for  them  that  is  part  of  a  religious  and   or  spiritual  practice  but  it's  not  necessarily.  And  then  there  are  the  folks  who  come   to  the  Skidmore  mindfulness.  So  we  have  weekly  meditations  and  yoga  practices   and  reiki  and  things  like  that  that  students  aren't  required  to  or  the  rest  of  the   �community  is  not  required  to  claim  any  particular  tradition  for  nor  are  they  likely  to   but  they  can,  and  many  of  them  do  express  that  this  is  a  spiritual  thing  for  them.               [00:19:22.000]       ABS:  It's  a  pretty  full  list.       PD:  Yeah  [laughs].  Oh!  I  knew  I  was  gonna  forget  somebody.  When  I  started  talking   about  Hayat  I  said,  you  know  when  I  got  here  Hayat  was  doing  all  of  this  and  they   still  are,  but  in  the  past  year  there's  also  been  a  bigger  push  from  some  of  the   Muslim  students  to  actually  have  a  club  that  is  expressly  for  Muslim  students.  And   there's  been  interest  in  that  since  before  I  got  here,  but  our  students  are  so  involved   in  so  much  that  it  takes  students  who  aren't  just  interested  in  it  but  are  interested  in   taking  leadership  in  it.  And  so  there  are  some  students  who  have  started  the  process   of  making  an  official  club,  which  is  fantastic.  But  if  that  doesn't  happen  or  until  that   happens,  our  office  just  continues  to  work  with  some  of  the  Muslim  staff  and  faculty   to  support  the  Muslim  students  on  campus.               [00:20:12.000]       ABS:  Can  you  also  just  talk  a  little  bit  about  how  staff  and  faculty  are  present  in  your   office,  if  they  are,  if  they  have  a  relationship  to  these  student  groups?       PD:  Sure,  well  I  should  mention  my  staff  as  well  so,  there  are  three  professional  staff   and  then  a  kind  of  rotating  number  of  student  staff.  And  that  includes  a  coordinator   for  Jewish  Student  Life,  Martina  Zobel,  and  a  coordinator  for  the  Skidmore   Mindfulness  program  Jennifer  Schmid-­‐Fareed.  And  the  two  of  them  work  both  with   clubs  and  with  students  who's  needs  aren't  being  met  by  the  clubs,  or  who  just  want   to  do  things  that  expand  the  presence  of  religion  or  spirituality  or  interfaith  on   campus.  And  so,  the  three  of  us  are  the  staff  and  we  collaborate  with  a  lot  of  other   staff  in  terms  of  events.    I  mentioned  the  Office  of  Student  Diversity  Programming.   The  director  of  that  office  and  myself  we  oversee  the  Intercultural  Center  together.   So  we  try  and  make  sure  that  whenever  there  are  programs  that  are  more   automatically  assigned  to  one  of  our  offices  that  we're  thinking  more  broadly  about   how  the  work  of  our  offices  might  overlap  for  those  programs.  We  work  with  the   student  leadership  offices  and  their  staff  because  they  support  the  clubs  and  events   on  campus  and  that's  an  obvious  connection.  So  there  are  some  that  are  quite   obvious.  The  counseling  center  does  stuff  with  the  Mindfulness  program,  the   religious  studies  department  will  have  [sic]  us  promote  some  of  our  events  and  vice   versa,  so  there  are  some  obvious  ones.  And  then  beyond  that,  there  are  stu—er,   sorry,  there  are  staff  and  faculty  that  will  attend  some  of  our  offerings.  Most  of  the   events  that  we  do  are  open  to  staff  and  faculty,  so  they'll  come  to  Shabbat  dinner  or   �they'll  come  to  one  of  the  meditations.  This  week  we  did  an  Ash  Wednesday  service   and  I'd  say  there  were  maybe  thirty-­‐six  people  there  and  two-­‐thirds  of  them  were   students  and  the  other  third  was  probably  staff  and  faculty.  So  they,  there's  a  few.   It's  not  a  majority  by  any  sense,  it's  not  a  large  group,  but  there's  a  handful  that  do   get  involved  that  way  just  by  attending  and  participating.  And  then  there  are  some   who  get  involved  in  really  supporting  the  work  of  the  communities  and  so,  there  are   staff  and  faculty  who  don't  just  come  to  the  events  but  will  help  with  hiring  new   staff,  finding  new  advisors,  being  advisors  themselves.  And  sometimes  I  know  about   that  and  sometimes  I  learn  about  it  later.  You  know,  sometimes  there  are  staff  or   faculty  who  have  been  helping  students  get  to  church  for  years  and  I  don't  find  out   about  it  until  a  casual  conversation.  So,  yeah  some  of  it's  formalized  and  some  of  it's   very  much  about  some  of  our  staff  and  faculty  just  making  connections  and  finding   out  a  way  that  they  can  help  students  get  connected.  And  every  once  in  a  while   there's  a  collaboration  that's  a  little  less  expected  so,  I'm  trying  to  think  of  one  but,   you  know  there  have  been  partnerships  with  the  Tang  Teaching  Museum,  and  there   have  been  partnerships  with  different  academic  departments,  we've  worked  with   somebody,  actually  from  Documentary  Studies  Adam  Tinkle,  and  he  does  work  with   sound  and  we  do  work  with  sound  healing  and  things  and  so  there  are  some  neat   overlaps  of  some  of  that  work.  And  I  like  to  keep  a  sort  of  somewhat  secret  entirely   unofficial  list  of  staff  and  faculty  who  have  expressed  to  me  that  they're  willing  to  be   called  upon  for  certain  things.  So  if  there's  a  student  who's  coming  to  me  with   concerns,  especially  if  they're  from  a  tradition  that's  not  well  represented  in  the   Saratoga  area,  which  is  a  lot  of  them,  I  try  and  keep  a  list  of  which  staff  and  faculty  I   might  be  able  to  point  them  towards.               [00:24:27.000]       ABS:  Very  cool.  So,  you  just  said  that  there  are  a  lot  of  students  whose  faiths  might   not  be  represented  in  this  area,  but  I'm  wondering  if  you  can  talk  a  little  bit  about   what  connections  have  been  made  to  groups  in  this  area  and  Skidmore,  and  if  you've   seen  a  change  in  that?  Either  from  when  you  were  here  growing  up  or  from  being   here  for  three  years  and  working  in  this  position,  and  or  if  you  have  a  vision  for  that   going  forward,  in  terms  of  where  you  want  those  relationships  to  be  or  go.       PD:  Sure,  um,  hm.  How  to  start.  There  are  some  formal  connections,  so  the  local   reform  synagogue  Temple  Sinai,  their,  one  of  their  co-­‐rabbi's  Linda  Motzkin  does   have  an  official  role  with  us  as  a  High  Holy  Days  chaplain.  Before  that  she  worked   even  more  frequently,  or  as  a  more  permanent,  not  that's  not  right,  a  more-­‐-­‐she  had   a  larger  role  at  Skidmore  previously,  in  terms  of  Jewish  student  life.  And  stepped   back  a  little  from  that  but  we're  very  thankful  she  stayed  on  to  work  with  us  during   high  holy  days.  And  part  of  that  is  that  that  congregation  is  able  to  use  Skidmore   Campus  spaces  for  High  Holy  Day  services  where  the  numbers  would  be  too  much   for  their  space.  And  it  gives  our  students  the  gift  of  being  able  to  attend  services   both  on  their  campus  and  with  a  multi-­‐generational  faith  community.  Which  I  think   �is  really  wonderful.  So  that's  been  going  on  for  years  and  years  and  years.  The  other   connections  are  primarily  unofficial.  Although,  also  within  the  Jewish  community   the  Saratoga  Chabad  works  with  my  office  to  come  onto  campus  and  do  table   outreach  basically,  and  also  working  with  the  Jewish  student  community  a  little  bit.   And  then  there  are  churches  that  are  more  likely  to  attract  some  of  our  students.  So   for  instance  a  lot  of  the  students  involved  in  Christian  Fellowship,  or  at  least  a   decent  sized  group  of  them  will  carpool  all  to  the  same  church  on  Sunday  mornings.   And  that's  not  an  official  partnership  in  any  way  it's  just  a  little  bit  of  word  of  mouth   and  a  little  bit  of  common  traditions  and  so  that  happens.  With  the  Catholic  churches   there  are  two  parishes  in  town  and  I've  invited  priests  and  deacons  from  both  of   them  to  come  and  do  services  on  campus  and  so  that'll  be  a  wonderful  way  of   making  that  connection  happen.  But,  students  can  also  just  go  wherever  they'd  like.   And  so,  similarly  to  some  of  the  staff  connections  I  don't  know  sometimes  when   students  are  attending  services  in  town.  I  like  to  try  and  find  out  so  that  if  other   students  are  looking  for  someone  to  go  with  I  can  make  some  introductions.  And  I   think  that's  generally  the  same  as  when  I  was  growing  up,  though  I  certainly  wasn't   aware  of  religious  life  at  colleges.  It  wasn't  something  that  I  was  thinking  of  much   except  that  I  knew  the  chaplain  here  when  I  was  younger.  And  in  terms  of  what  I   want  to  see,  hyper-­‐locally  like  right  in  Saratoga  Springs,  I  do  want  to  get  to  know   more  and  more  of  the  communities  and  the  leaders.  A  lot  of  them  will  contact  me   about  events  and  I'll  try  and  promote  those,  but  there's  also  a,  I  have  the  sense  of,   I'm  also  feeling  a  protection  of  the  campus?  That  there  are,  unfortunately,  always   going  to  be  religious  groups  that  aren't-­‐-­‐that  don't  necessarily  have  our  students   best  interest  in  mind  or  that  bring  a  style  of  communication  that  is  aggressive  in  a   way  that  I  don't  think  a  majority  of  our  students  would  like.  And  so  because  of  that,   I've  been  hesitant  to  just  put  out  a  blanket  invitation  to  religious  groups  to  come  to   campus.  I  usually  wait  for  students  to  express  an  interest  in  a  particular  community   and  then  I  will  reach  out.  So  for  instance  with  the  local  Quaker  community.  You   know  they  come  onto  campus  but  because  there's  a  student  interest.  So  I  would  like   there  to  be  connections.  I  think  especially  there's  a  lot  of  potential  within  the   volunteer  work  and  social  justice  side  of  things.  A  lot  of  our  local  religious   communities  are  on  the  front  lines  of  working  with  immigrants  and  refugees  in  the   area.  They're  the  ones  that  make  sure  that  the  soup  kitchen  is  staffed  and  that  there   are,  a  lot  of  them  are  volunteers  at  the  homeless  shelters  and  so  I  think  there  are   ways  there  to  strengthen  already  existing  partnerships.  We  do  have  students   already  who  volunteer  with  all  of  those  programs.  I  think  we  could  do  it  more  and   we  could  do  it  more  specifically  with  our  religious  students.  And  then  beyond  that,   beyond  Saratoga  Springs  we've  had  a  good  experience  getting  students  to  one  of  the   mosques  for  some  of  the  Eids.  Or,  we  partnered  with  one  of  the  mosques  on  a   service  project.  And  that's  been  wonderful  because  there  are  plenty  of  colleges  and   universities  in  the  capital  district.  And  Skidmore's  small  little  group  of  students  is   not  going  to  be  their  biggest  population  of  young  adult  outreach,  but  it's  been  nice  to   still  make  those  connections  and  I  want  to  strengthen  that  as  well.  Yeah  it's   interesting  because  a  lot  of  religious  communities,  and  I'm  speaking  primarily  out  of   the  Christian  context  but  I  know  that  it's  not  that  different  in  other  contexts.  A  lot  of   religious  communities  are  feeling  a  need  to  hold  onto  young  adults  with  all  of  their   �might,  and  I've  been  on  the  leadership  of  communities  that  do  this  where  we,  we  see   young  adults  and  we  see  numbers.  We  see  people  to  keep  our  traditions  going.  And   it's  very  self-­‐-­‐it's  very  much  about  us  as  a  religious  community  wanting  to  not  die   out,  and  I  want  to  help  my  own  church  but  also  all  of  the  religious  communities  in   town  approach  Skidmore  students  with  a  much  more  giving,  a  much  more  outward   looking  purpose.  That  this  is  not  about  whether  or  not  we  get  to  say,  "hey  we've  got   seven  college  students  on  our  lists,  we're  not  gonna  die  out,"  or  "we're  really  cool   with  the  young  people,"  but  more  that  isn't  it  great  that  these  one  student  or  these   two  students  are  being  fed  by  this  ministry.  So  that's  something  I'd  like  to  see   happen.               [00:31:33.793]       ABS:  Thank  you  for  sharing.  That's  all  the  questions  I  have  but  if  there's  anything   you  want  to  add  that  you  felt  like  didn't  get  in  there?       PD:  I  think  one  of  the  things  I'd  like  to  see  both  on  campus  and  in  Saratoga,  and  I   think  there  are  ways  to  maybe  make  it  happen  as  a  campus  community  partnership,   is  more  engagement  across  ideological  lines  of  religious  communities.  For  example   you  show  up  to  certain  meetings  in  town  of  religious  leaders  working  on  a  particular   issue  and  you  can  sort  of  predict  who's  going  to  be  there.  And  it's  not  that  they're  all   the  same  religion  it's  that  you're  pretty  sure  they're  all  the  same  politics,  or  they're   all  the  same,  you  know  social  views  on  different  issues.  And  so  one  of  the  things   that's  great  right  now  that's  happening  is  two  of  the  churches-­‐-­‐so  the  church  where   the  freeze  shelter  is  hosted  where  Code  Blue  is  hosted,  Soul  Saving  Station,  is  very   different  from  the  church  that  I  attend,  but  the  church  that  I  attend  is  also  helping   out  Code  Blue  with  some  office  space  and  some  overflow  space  and  housing  people   when  Soul  Saving  Station  doesn't  have  enough  room.  And  those  two  churches  could   not  be  more  different  ideologically  or  theologically  and  still  both  be  called  Christian.   But  they  are  [laughs],  and  they're  both  doing  this.  And  I  think  that  kind  of   partnership,  and  that  kind  of  getting  to  know  each  other  could  be  happening  more  at   Skidmore  as  well  and  in  the  town  as  well,  so  that  we're  expanding  what  it  means  to   be  religious  for  people  who  have  doubts  about  their  opinions  on  what  it  is  to  be   religious.  Maybe  not  doubts  about  their  opinions,  doubts  about  people  who  are   religious,  or  doubts  about  people  who  are  religious  in  a  way  that  is  different  from   them.  So  not  necessarily  interfaith  cooperation  but  even  within  a  tradition  across   ideological  bounds.               [00:33:45.570]       ABS:  Well,  I  wish  you  luck  in  this  office       �PD:  Thank  you       ABS:  And  all  of  your  goals       PD:  Thank  you       ABS:  Thank  you  so  much  for  being  part  of  this  interview,  and  I'm  not  sure  when  it   will  go  up  but  I  will  email  you  the  link  when  it  does.           � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ari Bogom-Shanon Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Parker Diggory Location The location of the interview Parker's office in Case Center. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Ari Bogom-Shanon Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/03/2018 Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Ari Bogom-Shanon: Ok, if you wouldn't mind just stating your name? Parker Diggory: My name is Parker Diggory. ABS: And your title. PD: I'm the director of Religious and Spiritual Life at Skidmore College. ABS: Great, thank you. So we're here on February 16th in Parker's office at Skidmore. So I'd like to just start off by asking about your connection to Skidmore College and where that started and what you do here now. PD: Sure, so my connection to Skidmore college is really life long, both of my parents taught here, my father taught here for I don't know, three decades or more, and so I knew the campus from my earliest memories. I went to summer camp here one summer, I had one of my first jobs here when the Tang opened, working there. Yeah so I've been connected to the community in a number of ways, coming to performances, things like that. I took classes here while I was in high school as a special student, and then when I left for college and grad school and all of that I didn't have much of a connection to the campus for about fifteen years I would say. And then, just three years ago I came back to take on this position, at first part time and then full time, and now like I said I'm the director of Religious and Spiritual Life and that means that I work with other offices in Campus Life and Engagement and in Student Affairs to support the students primarily but really the whole campus in their religious life, in their search for spiritual connection, in their growing awareness of religion in general in the world. ABS: Great, thank you. That's a bit about your connection to Skidmore, now I'm wondering if you can talk a bit about your connection to Saratoga, focusing on faith-based communities or if there's like a faith-based journey that brought you to this particular position here. PD: Sure, so, again born and raised in Saratoga Springs. Um, went to public schools here and grew up in the same church that I'm actually attending now, which is the Presbyterian New England Congregational Church on Circular Street in Saratoga. And, it wasn't a very, hm, all-encompassing kind of church life, where everything you do and everything your family does is sort of, is connected to that community, but it was certainly very big in my life. We went to church a lot of Sundays, at least during the school year. We did volunteer work with them. That's where I went to youth group and went on trips and so that really was my forming—my formational community in a lot of ways. It's where a lot of my strongest friendships developed, in terms of you know when I was a teenager, the people who I still speak to now as an adult from my childhood a lot of them are people I knew through church. And then also that meant that other--that's how I got to know some other religious communities. There were some interfaith things that happen or ecumenical things. That's how I got to know the rabbis at Temple Sinai, because our congregation would do things together, or, you know there was usually a Thanksgiving kind of multi-faith prayer and just event, community event, that would happen and there would be different religious communities represented there. Yeah so that, and they, the church that I was raised in, like I said it's Presbyterian and Congregational which are two denominations and I personally am part of the Presbyterian denomination and that eventually became a path for me in terms of my professional development in that I went to seminary and I am in a sort of long, scenic route towards ordination in that church. ABS: You talked a little about coming back to the same church community when you came back I was wondering if you could expand on what it was like to come back to this community fifteen years later. PD: Wow, yeah, in many ways it was just wonderful to be able to come back to my home church community that it's, even while I was gone I would come back for holidays, or if I just happened to be in town over a weekend I would go to church. The congregation helped support part of my education, you know, this was who I kept in touch with so, in some ways I had never completely left. But, I would say, I guess if there was anything challenging about it, it was that I had grown in my faith journey in ways that I was a little worried wouldn't fit in to my home church. That, our church is known for a really broad diversity of theological beliefs and, I just, I didn't have the beliefs as I when I was younger which it to be expected but I just wanted to make sure that I was still gonna fit in and they, they're so accepting of so many beliefs that I knew intellectually that that would be fine, but there's still that nervousness of, if I don't feel like this is my home church now, like what would I even do, because it's where my parents go. I'm connected to so many families there, if I all of a sudden started going to say the Methodist Church or the Episcopalian Church like people would have questions. And, I never seriously considered not going, but there were times where I thought, if I had moved to this town as an adult and had never gone to any of the churches in town, is this the congregation I would end up. And I honestly don't know. I think it would be, just because it's unique in a lot of ways in this town and has a lot things I look for, but it was an interesting question to think about. And in other ways it's just been good to get back and to church life and, you know, I ended up being nominated for the board of the church and church leadership so it's a very different role than I had before, where I'd still get treated a little bit as one of the kids of the church but I'm, I'm treated as an adult and as a leader and with expectations and responsibilities which are different, which I value. ABS: Thanks for sharing. So I think this is maybe a little of a transition into Skidmore and what that role is like but I'm wondering, for you coming to Saratoga was really coming home to you community and you talked about how we practice [sic] is so much bound up with how we grew up and what communities we grew up in, and for a lot of people coming to Skidmore they're leaving their home communities. So I'm wondering if you thought at all about that kind of relationship of working with a bunch of students here who are leaving their home communities and for you it's coming back to your community and if that influences your role here. PD: Mhm. Sure, I think it does. I think one would be I try and use the fact that I do know this community really well, this Saratoga community as a way to connect students not just by which denomination they're looking for or you know, the name of the tradition they're looking for, but sort of getting to know the personality of the student and the personality of the congregation, and being able to say, you know, I think you're really gonna like this leader, or, you know, there are some folks who go to this particular service that are looking at the same questions that you're asking. And so, part of it is that, and I don't think it's necessary to do my role to have that sort of historical knowledge, but I've certainly tried to use it that way. And then the other bit is that I have to rely on my own college experience where I wasn't in Saratoga Springs, to relate a little bit more to what the students are coming in with. So, I went to college in Middlebury, Vermont, and, you know, they don't have a Presbyterian church there and so I found the next best thing for me which was actually a Congregational Church, and I looked up the worship times and I went. I was one of the only students who did, sometimes my sister came, she was at the same school, and that was it. And I realized only, you know, months later who else at the school might have some of my similar religious beliefs. That I didn't, I didn't find my kind of on campus religious community in some ways ever, but even a small part of it I didn't find for a while. And so I try and hold on to that experience and fill in some of the blanks I wish had been filled in for me, as somebody who didn't really know the landscape. What are some other ways that influences things [pause]. I think part of it is trying to ease the transition for students not just in the immediate religious sense. Right, I can reserve prayer rooms, I can hold services, I can bring in leaders and what-not, but there are home-y trappings of a lot of people's religious lives that I'm not gonna be able to completely replicate but I can try and offer or connect to or get a taxi to or something. So that's part of it to is just thinking about what--and asking the students--what feels like home to you. Because sometimes when they're asking me for support or for access to a community, you know they're using category names and they're using tradition names. But I remember, I was studying abroad, I did a gap semester after high school and I was in Jamaica, and I went church with my host family, but sometimes I would go to a church that was a little more like the one I grew up in. And I walked in and they had the same exact brass cross on the altar, and I almost cried. And, it's that kind of thing that I know that will help students, and it might just take a while to figure out what that is. To find that familiarity. So I'm not sure if that answers the--your questions. [00:11:25.000] ABS: Yeah, definitely, wow. Yeah it is almost that search for home that students come in looking for. PD: Mhm. ABS: Ok, so you've been here three years? PD: Something like that. ABS: Something like that? Which is pretty recent. Can you talk a little bit about your first impressions of the religious community at Skidmore? PD: Hm. Well I admit that I had sort of made some assumptions based on my experience at a somewhat similar college and my knowledge of Skidmore. So, I probably didn't come in with a completely open mind in terms of, just, what's my first impression, you know completely blank slate kind of thing. It was more that I kind of assumed that it would be, not the most overtly religious campus, that it would be, um, you know that religions that are generally minorities in society would probably be a little more organized just by necessity, that we would have a lot of students who were maybe interested when they went home in still attending a service or connecting with a tradition. But at least while they were at college it didn't seem like a priority. And so that was true, those assumptions were proved pretty true. I think my impression was that it was very much, [pause], first word that comes to mind is underground, but that has some sort of like purposeful hiding that is only occasionally true. But that it was below the surface, how 'bout that, that the religious life at Skidmore was and still is to a great extent something that happens in a person to person sort of way, in a word of mouth sort of way. It's not the first thing you find out about somebody, it's not the majority of the events that are advertised. But when you scratch the surface it's there. And so part of my job is figuring out how much of that under-the-surface-ness is actually fine and desirable and what students and others kind of want and it's working really well and how much of it is happening simply because there isn't another way. Um, what else was I struck by. That's the first thing that comes to mind. [00:14:13.783] ABS: This is a bit more of just a practical question, but could you just talk a little bit about the different communities that are here, whether it's the more above-the-surface communities or any below-surface communities also? PD: Sure, so in terms of named groups we have: Hillel, which is a Jewish student organization, broad spectrum in terms of tradition. Because we don't have, not just because, but we don't have kosher offerings at Skidmore and that and other reasons mean that we don't have a full range of Jewish traditions represented but what does exist, the only organized group at the moment is Hillel for them. There's Christian Fellowship, Skidmore Christian Fellowship, which is a chapter of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, which is a national and sometimes international thing, so is Hillel. And then we have a Newman club, which is for Catholic students. That has been from semester to semester more and less active. It's quite small, one of the primary functions is finding carpools to local Masses, so it's not one of the more active in terms of programming at the moment. Then when I first arrived, and still, we have Hayat, which is a cultural affinity group, not a religious affinity group. But it covers the Middle East and South East Asia and so they will do cultural events that are also religiously connected and things like Holi or a Lunar New Year's celebration sometimes, although there are also other groups who do those. Eid dinners for the Muslim community. So that also depends on who's in charge and who's interested in supporting an event, but they function in a lot of ways independently from my office and from the Office of Student Diversity Programming, but both of our offices do work with them. There's a Quaker group that is not an official club but they get together and through my office they advertise, they meet every other week and they advertise that through my office and I help make them connections with members of the local Quaker community. There are bible studies that are connected with Christian Fellowship but I think some of them are attended by folks who maybe aren't involved in the club more broadly but are interested in going to a bible study that maybe their friend is leading. There is a practicing Zen gathering that doesn't necessarily require you to be a Zen practitioner and to identify as a Zen Buddhist to attend, but there are certainly folks who attend who have been, who do identify that way, both from the community and the faculty and every once in a while some of our students as well. And then there are some students who will get together around a certain holiday or something like that. There were some Hindu students last semester who got together to go to a Temple for a particular holiday. And it was sort of under the auspices of my office, sort of under the auspices of Hayat. It will sort of be an ad hoc group for a specific purpose and then they sort of will dissolve again. I feel like I'm probably forgetting something huge right now. There are some other groups that include spirituality and spiritual connection as part of what they do and who they are, but they're less, I wouldn't call them affinity groups as much because they're going to have a much broader spectrum of beliefs within them and so, there's an inspirational choir called Rejoice, and for many of the folks there there's a spiritual component to what they're doing and what they're singing but they sing songs from many different traditions. There's a mindful movement club of students that do everything from learning modern dance movement techniques to yoga to, um, I think the circus club has done some things with them. So, again some of the folks there are regular yoga practitioners and for them that is part of a religious and or spiritual practice but it's not necessarily. And then there are the folks who come to the Skidmore mindfulness. So we have weekly meditations and yoga practices and reiki and things like that that students aren't required to or the rest of the community is not required to claim any particular tradition for nor are they likely to but they can, and many of them do express that this is a spiritual thing for them. [00:19:22.000] ABS: It's a pretty full list. PD: Yeah [laughs]. Oh! I knew I was gonna forget somebody. When I started talking about Hayat I said, you know when I got here Hayat was doing all of this and they still are, but in the past year there's also been a bigger push from some of the Muslim students to actually have a club that is expressly for Muslim students. And there's been interest in that since before I got here, but our students are so involved in so much that it takes students who aren't just interested in it but are interested in taking leadership in it. And so there are some students who have started the process of making an official club, which is fantastic. But if that doesn't happen or until that happens, our office just continues to work with some of the Muslim staff and faculty to support the Muslim students on campus. [00:20:12.000] ABS: Can you also just talk a little bit about how staff and faculty are present in your office, if they are, if they have a relationship to these student groups? PD: Sure, well I should mention my staff as well so, there are three professional staff and then a kind of rotating number of student staff. And that includes a coordinator for Jewish Student Life, Martina Zobel, and a coordinator for the Skidmore Mindfulness program Jennifer Schmid-Fareed. And the two of them work both with clubs and with students who's needs aren't being met by the clubs, or who just want to do things that expand the presence of religion or spirituality or interfaith on campus. And so, the three of us are the staff and we collaborate with a lot of other staff in terms of events. I mentioned the Office of Student Diversity Programming. The director of that office and myself we oversee the Intercultural Center together. So we try and make sure that whenever there are programs that are more automatically assigned to one of our offices that we're thinking more broadly about how the work of our offices might overlap for those programs. We work with the student leadership offices and their staff because they support the clubs and events on campus and that's an obvious connection. So there are some that are quite obvious. The counseling center does stuff with the Mindfulness program, the religious studies department will have [sic] us promote some of our events and vice versa, so there are some obvious ones. And then beyond that, there are stu—er, sorry, there are staff and faculty that will attend some of our offerings. Most of the events that we do are open to staff and faculty, so they'll come to Shabbat dinner or they'll come to one of the meditations. This week we did an Ash Wednesday service and I'd say there were maybe thirty-six people there and two-thirds of them were students and the other third was probably staff and faculty. So they, there's a few. It's not a majority by any sense, it's not a large group, but there's a handful that do get involved that way just by attending and participating. And then there are some who get involved in really supporting the work of the communities and so, there are staff and faculty who don't just come to the events but will help with hiring new staff, finding new advisors, being advisors themselves. And sometimes I know about that and sometimes I learn about it later. You know, sometimes there are staff or faculty who have been helping students get to church for years and I don't find out about it until a casual conversation. So, yeah some of it's formalized and some of it's very much about some of our staff and faculty just making connections and finding out a way that they can help students get connected. And every once in a while there's a collaboration that's a little less expected so, I'm trying to think of one but, you know there have been partnerships with the Tang Teaching Museum, and there have been partnerships with different academic departments, we've worked with somebody, actually from Documentary Studies Adam Tinkle, and he does work with sound and we do work with sound healing and things and so there are some neat overlaps of some of that work. And I like to keep a sort of somewhat secret entirely unofficial list of staff and faculty who have expressed to me that they're willing to be called upon for certain things. So if there's a student who's coming to me with concerns, especially if they're from a tradition that's not well represented in the Saratoga area, which is a lot of them, I try and keep a list of which staff and faculty I might be able to point them towards. [00:24:27.000] ABS: Very cool. So, you just said that there are a lot of students whose faiths might not be represented in this area, but I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what connections have been made to groups in this area and Skidmore, and if you've seen a change in that? Either from when you were here growing up or from being here for three years and working in this position, and or if you have a vision for that going forward, in terms of where you want those relationships to be or go. PD: Sure, um, hm. How to start. There are some formal connections, so the local reform synagogue Temple Sinai, their, one of their co-rabbi's Linda Motzkin does have an official role with us as a High Holy Days chaplain. Before that she worked even more frequently, or as a more permanent, not that's not right, a more--she had a larger role at Skidmore previously, in terms of Jewish student life. And stepped back a little from that but we're very thankful she stayed on to work with us during high holy days. And part of that is that that congregation is able to use Skidmore Campus spaces for High Holy Day services where the numbers would be too much for their space. And it gives our students the gift of being able to attend services both on their campus and with a multi-generational faith community. Which I think is really wonderful. So that's been going on for years and years and years. The other connections are primarily unofficial. Although, also within the Jewish community the Saratoga Chabad works with my office to come onto campus and do table outreach basically, and also working with the Jewish student community a little bit. And then there are churches that are more likely to attract some of our students. So for instance a lot of the students involved in Christian Fellowship, or at least a decent sized group of them will carpool all to the same church on Sunday mornings. And that's not an official partnership in any way it's just a little bit of word of mouth and a little bit of common traditions and so that happens. With the Catholic churches there are two parishes in town and I've invited priests and deacons from both of them to come and do services on campus and so that'll be a wonderful way of making that connection happen. But, students can also just go wherever they'd like. And so, similarly to some of the staff connections I don't know sometimes when students are attending services in town. I like to try and find out so that if other students are looking for someone to go with I can make some introductions. And I think that's generally the same as when I was growing up, though I certainly wasn't aware of religious life at colleges. It wasn't something that I was thinking of much except that I knew the chaplain here when I was younger. And in terms of what I want to see, hyper-locally like right in Saratoga Springs, I do want to get to know more and more of the communities and the leaders. A lot of them will contact me about events and I'll try and promote those, but there's also a, I have the sense of, I'm also feeling a protection of the campus? That there are, unfortunately, always going to be religious groups that aren't--that don't necessarily have our students best interest in mind or that bring a style of communication that is aggressive in a way that I don't think a majority of our students would like. And so because of that, I've been hesitant to just put out a blanket invitation to religious groups to come to campus. I usually wait for students to express an interest in a particular community and then I will reach out. So for instance with the local Quaker community. You know they come onto campus but because there's a student interest. So I would like there to be connections. I think especially there's a lot of potential within the volunteer work and social justice side of things. A lot of our local religious communities are on the front lines of working with immigrants and refugees in the area. They're the ones that make sure that the soup kitchen is staffed and that there are, a lot of them are volunteers at the homeless shelters and so I think there are ways there to strengthen already existing partnerships. We do have students already who volunteer with all of those programs. I think we could do it more and we could do it more specifically with our religious students. And then beyond that, beyond Saratoga Springs we've had a good experience getting students to one of the mosques for some of the Eids. Or, we partnered with one of the mosques on a service project. And that's been wonderful because there are plenty of colleges and universities in the capital district. And Skidmore's small little group of students is not going to be their biggest population of young adult outreach, but it's been nice to still make those connections and I want to strengthen that as well. Yeah it's interesting because a lot of religious communities, and I'm speaking primarily out of the Christian context but I know that it's not that different in other contexts. A lot of religious communities are feeling a need to hold onto young adults with all of their might, and I've been on the leadership of communities that do this where we, we see young adults and we see numbers. We see people to keep our traditions going. And it's very self--it's very much about us as a religious community wanting to not die out, and I want to help my own church but also all of the religious communities in town approach Skidmore students with a much more giving, a much more outward looking purpose. That this is not about whether or not we get to say, "hey we've got seven college students on our lists, we're not gonna die out," or "we're really cool with the young people," but more that isn't it great that these one student or these two students are being fed by this ministry. So that's something I'd like to see happen. [00:31:33.793] ABS: Thank you for sharing. That's all the questions I have but if there's anything you want to add that you felt like didn't get in there? PD: I think one of the things I'd like to see both on campus and in Saratoga, and I think there are ways to maybe make it happen as a campus community partnership, is more engagement across ideological lines of religious communities. For example you show up to certain meetings in town of religious leaders working on a particular issue and you can sort of predict who's going to be there. And it's not that they're all the same religion it's that you're pretty sure they're all the same politics, or they're all the same, you know social views on different issues. And so one of the things that's great right now that's happening is two of the churches--so the church where the freeze shelter is hosted where Code Blue is hosted, Soul Saving Station, is very different from the church that I attend, but the church that I attend is also helping out Code Blue with some office space and some overflow space and housing people when Soul Saving Station doesn't have enough room. And those two churches could not be more different ideologically or theologically and still both be called Christian. But they are [laughs], and they're both doing this. And I think that kind of partnership, and that kind of getting to know each other could be happening more at Skidmore as well and in the town as well, so that we're expanding what it means to be religious for people who have doubts about their opinions on what it is to be religious. Maybe not doubts about their opinions, doubts about people who are religious, or doubts about people who are religious in a way that is different from them. So not necessarily interfaith cooperation but even within a tradition across ideological bounds. [00:33:45.570] ABS: Well, I wish you luck in this office PD: Thank you ABS: And all of your goals PD: Thank you ABS: Thank you so much for being part of this interview, and I'm not sure when it will go up but I will email you the link when it does. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Parker Diggory Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 16, 2018 Description An account of the resource Parker Diggory joined Skidmore as the Directory of Religious and Spiritual Life in 2016. She talks about her relationship to Saratoga Springs, religious life on campus, and religious life in town. Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bogom-Shanon, Ari '18 clubs Parker Diggory religious life https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6a2aaca0b71092b3ab59952ba4ca2e02.jpg 8857464b91000d9250f3a5614e230e48 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/47cad13878f7831d6787530186ceb62b.m4a 8da0d675e4e1df9363ea6741ea5f3528 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Li, Hongqiao, '18 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Bosshart, Samantha Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 21 mins Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Li, Hongqiao, '18 Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 08/03/2018 Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data .m4a Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 64kbps Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound HL: So...Um, this is um an interview um to Samantha... SB: Bosshart. HL: Um, Bosshart. Um, and at the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation. This is um Ted, and the date is December 20th, and right now is 10:10. SB: February. HL: Yeah, February. Ok. So um, first, can you tell me something about yourself, like where are you from, um, like where do you live, and what is your job? SB: Um, I'm originally from Ohio, I was raised in Kent, Ohio, um, that's where I went to grade school, and high school, and upon graduating from high school, I went to Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana, where I got a Bachler’s of Arts in history and criminal justice. And then after that, I moved to Galveston, Texas, where I was fortunate enough to rehab some houses, and then also work for the Galveston Historical Foundation, which is the second, at the time, was the second largest local non-profit preservation organization, and from there, after five years, I've decided to um, pursue, um, a master's in historic preservation planning from Cornell University, which is what brought me to New York State. Um, I completed my course work with honors, um, but did not finish my thesis, and I um, after that, moved to Saratoga springs, where I took a position with Historic Albany Foundation, where I was the Director of Preservation Services, um, there for a year and a half, before I was fortunate enough to be offered the Executive Director position with the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation in 2008. So in June, I will have been here 10 years. HL: Nice. Um, so can you tell me more about your job, like your current job, like, like what is like a typical day for the work? SB: Well, um, there really isn't a typical day. Um, we, ah, the mission of the foundation is to preserve the architectural, cultural and heri... landscape, heritage of Saratoga Springs, and we do that through advocacy, technical assistance, education, and restoration. And um, so that involves lots of different things throughout the year. Um…For example today, I already helped homeowner providing him information on who could potentially, ah, repair his lotus stained glass window. Um, I, will be working with the First Baptist Church on a, actually, a grant to, I've helped them with a grant to restore their stained-glass windows and help to, help them continue to do fund raising for that project. We are also in the process of, um, helping, um, home owner, um, gets historic tax cutouts for a historic house on the west side, and we're in the mids of planning our historic homes tour, which is our largest fund-raising event of the year. Um, so any day can be different, ah, it really just depends on what the focus is at that immediate moment, ah, whether we're planning our summer Sunday strolls that take place every Sunday throughout the, the summer, working with volunteers, distinct home owners, providing comments on, preservation practice, um, to our city's Land Use Boards. For example, tomorrow night is the designer review commission meeting, so we'll be providing comments on several projects at that meeting tomorrow. Um, in particular, on the Rip Van Dam Hotel edition. So no day is typ, typical. Um, and we work on lots of different things, and we have lots of different committees, so we have a Fund Development Committee, and Advocacy Committee, an (a) Events Committee, Marketing Committee, Membership Committee, and Ad Hoc Saratoga Race Course Committee that reviews, um, plans for capital improvements of the oldest sports venue in the country, um, and, so there really isn't a typical day. HL: Yeah. Um, can you, um, tell me more about the foundation, just in general? Like what's its mission, or, like, wh, what kind of people do you usually, you know, like, involve with or, jus? SB: Well, I think I, I, I touched on the mission in the last question, which again was, um, the mission of the foundation is to um, promote, um, protect and preserve the architectural, cultural landscape heritage of Saratoga Springs, and as I said, we do that through advocacy, technical assistance, education, restoration. Um, the foundation was founded in 1977, so we are just completing our 40th year. When the foundation was founded, it was founded as an outgrowth of the Saratoga, um, plan for action. Ah, at the time in the 1970s, Saratoga Springs was not the community that you see today, was not a vibrant, thriving year-round destination. Um, downtown had vacant store fronts, it had vacant upper floors, the large beautiful homes on North Broadway was selling for 10,000 dollars. They were being sub-divided into apartments, the carriage houses being sub-divided. There were, um, so, ultimately, ah, the Saratoga Plan for Action, which is a traceries community let effort for community leaders, they chose to, um, enact a plan on how to revillize downtown, and one of that aspect of that plan, was to create a grant program to assist building home, building owners rehabilitate the facades and buildings downtown. Ah, it was identified that they needed it to be a separate organization from the city, and that organization was identified and established was the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation. So we initially oversaw, um, we, ah, 25 grands for buildings downtown, and then exchange for that grand funding. The foundation will receive a preservation easement for 25 years, meaning any exterior changes made to a building, the foundation would have to approve. So, um, since then we've involved with, um, establishing state and national historic districts, expanding local historic districts. Um, we've been involved with, um, restoring the Gideon Putnam Cemetery, the oldest burial ground in the city. We have, um, rehabilitated several buildings, ah, one on Clinton Place, one of the road houses is there, along with 117 grand former Adirondack Railway Station, ah, then we were also involved with New York State Main Street Grant for Beekman Street, which, ah, initially provided, ah, 190,000 dollars and funding, and, I always, it was for 3(ah)50,000 dollar building rehab grants and 4 for facade grants, um, each building owner had to match each grant, dollar for dollar. And in turn most exceeded that, and we believe that estimated, um, investment on Beekman Street as a result of that grant was nearly three quarters of a million dollars. So we were also involved with that. Ah, we were also, ah, involved with, when Skidmore College, ah, had the opportunity to move their campus to North Broadway, nearly 90 buildings, mostly, historic buildings on Union Avenue and the east side neighborhood were left vacant. The foundation, ah, worked with local realter John Roohan and others to, um, ensure that those buildings were gonna be rehabbed and, and, and made into single family residences or business or what have to make them survive, and we were fortunate enough that we did not lose any historic buildings as the result of that, um, then most recently, ah, our largest project was the Spirit of Life, an Spencer Trust Memorial restoration which we partnered with the city, for the national, nationally significant sculpture, and surround that was designed by Daniel Chester French, and Henry Bacon, who also designed the Lincoln Memorial. Charles Leavitt, Jr., who was landscape architect, he was also responsible for, um, many race tracks in the country, but he was responsible for re, large reconfiguration at the turn of the century, Saratoga Race Course, and we worked with the city to raise, um, 450,000 by, by the foundation the city matched that amount, and we were thankful to have the generosity of individuals, um, businesses, and ah, foundation support that effort. That project also was a total of 750,000 dollars, and its, um, rededication took place on centennial of the original dedication, which was June 26th, 1915. So those are some of the history of the foundation, um, I'm sure there's much more, but there's some highlights for you. HL: Um, so my next question is, what kind of difficulties do you think you have encountered, um, while preserving the architectures of Saratoga Springs? SB: Um, well, I, I can't speak to the early times, I think I'm sure times funding was a hard, um, was a challenge for building owners, and I think that's why it was so important for the foundation to assist home owners with the tax credit program, the federal tax credit program, so we're available then, I think, um, the Historic Preservation Act was established in 1966, so it was relatively still new when the foundation was founded, so preservation well, um, Saratoga had a history of wanting to preserve its heritage I think was relatively in new concept. I think, building owners ah, often don't fully understand the importance of being in a historic district, and can be frustrated or upset when they can't do what they would like to do to their building. I think that is a challenge. Um, I think, one of the challenges that this organization faces now is those who were here in the 1970s and 1980s when Saratoga was, um, not vibrant in a destination recognize the importance of historic preservation. They recognize that it had an important role in Saratoga's economic vitality and success. And they think a lot of new people who move here that are transplants take for granted that historic preservation takes effort. It doesn’t just happen. And that our organization is the one to promote it and ensure that what we have that so special is retained, and that it doesn't just happen. So I think that's one of our biggest challenges that we face now. HL: Ok. Um, so my next question is, can you tell me like, one story you remembered the most in your work, like? SB: Well, there's a couple. Um, when I first started at the foundation not long after there's a handsome, um, Pre-Civil-War Italianate house that I always, um, admired, walking by with my dog, even before I joined the foundation, and I remember one day, walking by this house, and the windows were being taken out, and, um, the house had been purchased by the adjacent owners who lived on North Broadway. And they wanted to demolish the house. It was in good condition, they had paid for over a million dollars for the house. And, um, it was sort of shocking to see a home so beautiful and in good condition, sold for a million dollars, being proposed to be demolished. So that was a memorable moment. At that time, we, the foundation, ah, asked for a demolition moratorium in the city, which we were successful in getting and throughout that period we attempted to expand the local historic district, which would have given oversight, ah, for demolition, ah, to match the boundaries of the national register historic district. And unfortunately, as I mentioned before about challenges, many of the home owners in that particular area did not want to have any oversight by the design review commission. They did not want to have to seek approval to make changes to their building. So with that we were unsuccessful and ah, it was difficult to watch 23 Greenfield be demolished. And today it is a fenced yard, with no building. Ah, another, sadly, another one I think the loses are the hardest ones, and those are the ones you remember most, um, would be 66 Franklin, which um, was a beautiful Second Empire house granted in poor condition, um, maybe not beautiful to most immediate glance, um, but, um, was designed by J.D.Stevens, who would also design our, um, historic hotels, ah, the Grand Union, ah, the Grand Central, and this was one of his last works in Saratoga Springs, there are still a couple that remain, but one of his last, and ah, building owner want to purchase the home and demolish it, ah, unfortunately he was unwilling to share, at the time, what he was proposing to build in its place, which was a, um, the historic review ornaments requires that building owner provide an acceptable post-demolition plan, and he was not, by the foundation standards providing that. Ah, this was ah, I believe a four-year court battle. We were in city court, we went city court, we wanted the state level more than one case and ultimately it was returned back to the designer review commission who accepted a fence and a sign as an acceptable post-demolition plan. So that was another one that was tough to watch, however I'd say one of the most rewarding was the Spirit of Life and Spencer Trust Restoration, because it's truly transformed the way people use the northwest portion of the park. Um, when I first came to Saratoga, the entrance um, the walkway entrance of Broadway was sort of hin, it was dark, um, there, the trees and bushes were overgrown. It was not welcoming, sadly it was the respite for the homeless. There was no lighting at night, ah, there were no benches, ah, there was little landscape, but some of the trees immediately that variety along the reflecting pool wherein overgrown. And, um, today it is an active, vibrant part of the park with people sitting on benches, having picnics, um, there's people walk through there at night, um, it's just really transformed how people walk and use of the park. So that's probably been one of the most rewarding for me since I've been here. HL: Ok. Um, I guess my last question is, what do you want to say about the history and environment of Saratoga Springs? SB: Saratoga is, Saratoga Springs is this amazing, little spot in upstate New York that has a great college, more than one actually, with Empire State College, but Skidmore College it has um, the oldest sports venue in the country, ah, with one of the oldest, the oldest state race, Saratoga Race Course, which is truly magnificent. It is wholly intact from its early time from 1840s to today, um, we are fortunate to have the SPA State Park with SPAC, amazing performance venue that is home to New York City Ballet and Philadelphia Orchestra, and we have this great downtown and neighborhoods, and that's all walkable and it's a variety of architecture, and it's just has a really rich history... [Long Pause] [She starts to cry] There aren't many [Long Pause] cities that have what we have. And such a community that has embraced it, and supported it at least up til this point, and hopefully that doesn't change. HL: Ok. Um, do you have anything else you want to contribute to the interview? SB: No. I think you've covered a lot. HL: Ok. Alright. Thank you so much, um, for this... SB: Sorry. HL: No, no, it's totally fine, yeah. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Samantha Bosshart Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 20th, 2018 Description An account of the resource Samantha Bosshart talks about her experience preserving the history of Saratoga Springs. Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Li, Hongqiao, '18 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio recording. Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e09c8c9e5a17fce2b2b4a5743d84386b.png 5f059df335ed5c0f08fcd3ed9080109a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/18ad9c7c7702d732e925be72caa0c9fe.m4a 805ec005958fae1e659dbca4db796ea7 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/80ffce96906a10dced5adbf6af2f08a8.pdf cb172e4b674b31e9e2e4f3e0ee1bc200 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2417b8ef23f3ccb8833084604b2c22ed.pdf 0cbf5152ff698803da0b600fffb94f3b https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/44b850fe3c23f3027a8ba647ccecec3f.m4a 87fdeb2781e84c2fde326bcefd615c28 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/94785925a3b6f1a435d2070b99e719db.pdf 96ccc0fcbd3ec1ef48fbae86d2356e0d https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/239344656eb93a2c5a1f82fcfc6904ff.pdf 0d2da0cec4811662d3c0187c46a5f5aa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Isabel M.R. Long '21 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sandra Welter Location The location of the interview Scribner Library, Skidmore College Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound November 23, 2019 Interview Isabel M.R. Long: So, my name is Isabel Long. Today is November 23rd, 2019. It is approximately 12:05 in the afternoon. I am in library room 128B, here with Sandra Welter. Sandy has been a– is a retired professor from Skidmore. She worked here for many decades in many facets of the college. So, Sandy, could you introduce yourself? Sandra Welter: Great, thank you, Isabel. It's actually a pleasure to be part of this project, and I was very glad to be asked to be involved. I came to Saratoga Springs as a Skidmore wife back in 1971. So, I've been connected to Skidmore for many, many, many years. I was a graduate student at that time, finishing my graduate work, I finished that work. My husband at the time was working here at Skidmore, and I then spent seven years teaching in the high school. I was an English teacher in the high school – junior high school and high school. We had our children. I left public school teaching and then, when my children were young – three, four, five years old – I decided I would like to do some part-time work. The public schools at that time, in the late 70's, were not as modern in their thinking about people working part-time in positions like teaching. So, I was– I approached Skidmore and asked if there were any opportunities. I actually began my teaching and administrative career at the University Without Walls. The University Without Walls is no longer functioning here at Skidmore, but it was a very important aspect– branch of the educational opportunities at Skidmore for non-traditional, adult students who needed to complete their undergraduate degrees. These are men and women who began their college career and were unable to complete it for a number of reasons, or never started college at the traditional moment. At age eighteen. The University Without Walls was a fabulous introduction for me into the Skidmore community. I was an advisor to many of our UWW students. I taught basic English composition as independent studies for many of our students that were off campus, for which many of our UWW students were. And then I worked with a lot of faculty as I administered putting together programs, curricula, for some of our UWW students. So, I got to know a lot of our faculty. One of the aspects, one of the branches of UWW that was vibrant in the mid-70's, all through the 80's, and into the early 90's was the UWW prison program. The prison program was a full academic bachelorette program that we brought to two correctional facilities in upstate New York, about an hour from Skidmore. Every night, at four o'clock, a cadre of twenty – fifteen or so, twenty – Skidmore faculty would finish their work here at Skidmore with the undergraduates, get in their cars and drive up to Comstock, New York, and teach their series of courses to a select group of inmate students who had applied to Skidmore, who had been accepted, and who had received funding – both federal and state funding ¬– to support their college education. So, I started teaching in that program because I could be home with my children during the day, and when my husband got home, I could be off doing my teaching at night. So, it worked out perfectly for me, I taught in the prison program for ten years. I became the director of that program, the last four years of it. I unfortunately– When we lost funding– both federal and state funding – I then, with the help then of the faculty here at Skidmore, we had to close the program down. But those ten year were the most vibrant teaching experience I had ever had, to date, at that point. And I met and worked with so many faculty that were so giving of their time to a population that didn't have access to education at all. And it changed lives radically. I say that with complete confidence. It's not like I imagine that they changed lives, I knew that this program changed individuals lives, and families lives, communities. Everything, these men would go back into their communities a much more viable source of positive influence, both on their families and on their communities. But unfortunately, in 1993 the funding for this program was pulled, both at the federal level and at the state level, and we had to close our program down. we graduated many hundreds of students. I worked in that program even after the program was closed. We volunteered. We had a group of volunteer faculty that would go up for no pay that would do reading groups, study groups, in order to talk with former students. We kept that going as long as we possibly could. At that point I began teaching part-time in the English department and moved to what the college had, at that point, was a master’s program. So, I moved from just part0time work teaching in the English department to full-time administrative work in the master of arts and liberal studies program. That program, again, was like UWW but at the graduate level. I was the administrator. I was the director of that program for some years and advised many graduate students as they put together these interesting interdisciplinary graduate programs. That program also was closed. And, so at that point I began teaching full-time in the English department, and that is what I did until I retired two years ago. And met wonderful students. like you, and students– the first time I had ever deeply embedded myself in the residential program. Many of my experiences at Skidmore were with our non-traditional students, our UWW students, our prison students, our graduate MLAS students, all of whom were off campus. They were not necessarily residential. So, that gave– this last ten year of my career gave me a wonderful experience of embedding myself in the residential community where I was working full-time with freshmen, sophomores, juniors, teaching English 103, English 105. I worked with our international students in a course numbered English 100 which was for international student for whom English as not their first language. So, I worked with them preparing them to begin doing the work that was required of them at Skidmore. So, I've had a really varied experience of teaching at Skidmore, and I one I couldn't possibly replicate any other place. One of the wonderful things about Skidmore is they were, historically were so open to new ideas about how to educate people, who could be educated, who should be educated. And Skidmore as a place that had a very open mind about that, those questions. IL: Fantastic, thank you. You were taking about UWW, so I would like to go back that first [SW: Sure.] before kind of revisiting the different moments in your career. [SW: Sure.] So with UWW, you have set up kind of the who and when for me, can you tell me a bit about the how? SW: Sure. Men and women would apply to the University Without Walls program, they would be reviewed through an admissions committee. They would be interviewed. We would determine what their interests were and whether or not Skidmore had the capacity to fulfil their undergraduate requirements. Historically, if a student came to us and said they wanted to become an electrical engineer, we would probably advise them to go to another institution. That was not a good fit for us. But, for those who were interested in the liberal arts and sciences, those we could accommodate. Once the student was accepted at UWW, he or she got two advisors. One was a major advisor, and one was a UWW office advisor. Someone who oversaw the compilation of the student's curriculum. That was my job. And so each semester, and in some cases not ever the semester, because in some cases the students were doing independent study and might be working on a course for six months rather than a regular, traditional semester-long experience. UWW would pair that student with an appropriate faculty member. So, my job was to talk to the student, listen to his or her desires of a particular course in environmental studies with a focus on land management, or on sustainability, or on water quality. I would then go to the department, like the environmental studies department, and I would talk with the faculty. I would say I have a student who is interested in land management, or water quality, and he or she wants to do an independent study or many if they were local, take a course with you. Would you be available and willing to work with that student? SO my job was to pair students and faculty in their learning. That was a hundred and twenty credits, so that was a lot of hands-on work. It was very labor-intensive process of getting a student through an undergraduate degree at UWW. But, we had an amazingly energetic faculty who were willing to work with our UWW students independently. They often invited local independent UWW students into their classes too so they could hear the lecture right on campus. So, it was a very useful kind of collaboration. That's how it worked. Students worked through their courses at their own pace. All of these UWW students were working men and women. They were not eighteen-year-olds, they were not living on campus, they were not full-time students. So, we had to balance– they had to balance their work life, their family life, and their student life as they proceed to get their undergraduate work done. Not an easy task. And so, for many years in working with these UWW students, I was incredibly impressed with their energy, with their commitment, with their focus because you know how hard it is to get your courses done, imagine if you had a family and a job to balance. And that's what these UWW students were doing. So my job was to facilitate that process and make sure their course work was appropriate, that their degree was balanced, that they had 120 credits, that they had correct distributions, that they had all the components of the major – all the things that your advisor does and your registrar does here on campus, that's what the UWW staff did. IL: That seems very helpful to a broader community interested in pursuing their higher education. SW: Exactly. And UWW was a national forum. Skidmore was not the only campus that ran a UWW program. It was actually a concept that was designed at the federal government level, offering opportunities for adults to go back and finish their degrees. And many campuses across the nation designed UWW program, and Skidmore was one of them. We were one of the earliest ones, and we were one of the latest ones to close. In the meantime, many other colleges across the county also had UWW programs. IL: So then taking the UWW to the prison program, you were talking about faculty going there later in the evenings. So were they doing lectures, or was this again, kind of an independent study type? SW: Yeah. Good question. The prison program looked very much like a residential college program. In other words, the faculty when in, they had a class. They had a class of ten, fifteen, eighteen students. They went in, they sat in the class, they gave lectures, they– the students had their textbooks, they did all the stuff that you would do, that any undergraduate student would do in a class. It was organized by semester, very traditionally. They started and ended in a traditional way. They started, they ended, the students had exams, they received grade. IT was very, very tradition looked because we had the structure. The students were there. It was easier to design that and run that that way than it was for independent adults who were working and living in places all over the country. Our prison program could follow a much more residential pattern, which is what we did. So, the students received transcripts. Their transcripts looked just like our undergraduate residential student's transcript, it's just that it said Comstock on it rather than just plain Skidmore College. It was Skidmore College Comstock Program, which mean that it was offered at the Comstock facilities. IL: Could you help me understand what your personal experience was with that? SW: Well, I had various experiences. Going in– The reason that I got involved in the prison program actually, was that I had a friend who was teaching up there. A colleague, an English professor. And he said to me, one night at home, at my house, we were having a dinner together with a group of friends, and he said "you know, Sandy, I think that you would really like teaching in the prison." And my then-husband looked askance, and said "really," and my friend Bob said "yeah. I think that you would like that. You're the kind of person that I think would be really good. It's not everybody who can do this. Any faculty go up, and they observe, and they say 'Not for me. I don't like the gates; I don't like the feeling worried about being in a prison.'" And he said, "well how do you feel about that?" And I said, well I need to go up and see how I feel. One was a maximum-security prison, and one was a medium security prison, and they were all-male. So of course, there was major concerns. I had major concerns. So, but I said, let me go try. And I walked– I went in with him. I got permission; I had a pass as a guest. I went in with him one evening, and I observed the teachers teaching. I observed the classrooms, I participated in teaching a class with my colleague, and he was right. It was a– it was instantaneous for me. The students were, one, incredibly prepared. Everybody had done their reading, everybody had done their work, everybody came in with hundreds of questions. Some of which were off the wall, but some of which were incredibly insightful. They were like sponges. They were so eager to get this learning and to participate in this exercise. It's like an adventure. This was not their life, imagine, living in a prison. So, at night they could come up and walk into a classroom which had windows and desks. They were with other people, there was a professor there. This as for them lifesaving. And I could tell. I could tell. So, the next semester I taught a class, and I never turned back. I just, I just loved it. I taught composition to mostly freshmen. I then became an advisor, so I was putting together curricula. So, I was making sure the students were developing their majors in certain good way. So, I was working as an advisor, and at the very end I was the director of the program, until we closed. So, lots of great experiences. We had full graduations at the camp– at the prison. We would bring up faculty in their full regalia. Their families could come up, observe their graduation. we would have cake and cookies afterwards. It was as close to normal as we possibly could create given where we were. IL: Wonderful. You wrote a monograph about dealing with behavior. SW: I did. IL: Could you talk about what lead to that, and what you were dealing with? SW: Yeah. One of the– Obviously as a woman, I was always approached by women faculty and men faculty who would say "aren't you afraid? Aren't you threatened? Isn't it dangerous?" Obviously, all appropriate questions. The fact is, I never once – in ten years – never once felt personally threatened. Not once. Now, were there moments? There were maybe, out of ten years, there were maybe three or four moments where there was a scruff. Where there was something that went on– not that had anything to do with me, but was with something in the hallway, or something was going on. But it was immediately shut down, it was immediately– the guards were right there. They're not in your classroom, but they are right in the hall. But personally, I was never approached by a student, by an inmate student, I was never spoken to inappropriately. The students knew that the health and the veracity of this program was on their shoulders. If they screwed up, the prison would close this program down immediately. Skidmore would want to keep coming, but the prison would close it down. So, they knew, if they wanted this program to work, they had to mind their manner. And they did. In fact, they go so wrapped up in their learning there was no time. There was really no time for that. But that being said, a colleague of mine who worked in another prison in the western part of the state, she and I were talking at a conference one time. A prison programs conference that was, happened across the state of New York, and we were talking about, yes, our colleagues were always asking us, you know, what about the behavior? What do you do? And we said, you know, why don't we write a little how-to. Because, yes, of course, there will be situations were a student will overstep, wither knowingly or not knowingly, overstep the line, what do you know. So we decided to put our head together and write a monograph, which we did and we distributed to all of the prison programs across the state for women instructors so that they had a kind of game plan. Or a kind of guidebook. Or to read to decide if they even wanted to do it. And it was great. It was very useful, and the state was very happy that they had it. I gave it to the officers to so that the officers could see what we were saying. And they approved. They said yes, this is appropriate instruction. So we had good cooperation with the prison administration as well. IL: Wonderful. Was there anyone in the program, both with the prison program and with the University Without Walls that was particularly impactful for you personally? SW: Woah. Hundreds, actually. [laughs] Yes, there were some amazing, amazing students. I remember a middle-aged man in the prison program. He was a philosophy major, so he wasn't– he was my advisee. And Michael was– loved to write poetry. And many of the men used to write poetry, and most of it was pretty horrible, but Michael’s was astonishing. It was absolutely publishable. And I can remember when he graduated, he handed me a collection of some of his writings, and I still have them. He's passed away, and he died of AIDS, I believe in the late 80's or early 90's. But he was a very brilliant man and had a really horrible life. But his mind was– just, always remember thinking, anyone looking at this man would think he was just this thug, but all you need to do is just let him speak. Listen to what he had to say, and look at what he was writing about, and you would realize that he had a heart and a mind that was quite beautiful. And so I do remember that. My UWW, not prison students, many students– what I loved about them, they went on to do great things. One on my UWW graduate students is currently directing the economic opportunity program in Saratoga. And she did her degree at Skidmore UWW and was one of my advisees and so she's making a huge difference here in our community here in Saratoga. And that makes me feel great. When I see her name in the paper, and her picture, and the projects that she's doing, I feel like we did the right thing. IL: Well that's wonderful. Another program that I know has been impactful in the community is the Master's of Liberal Studies program. How– could you help me understand your involvement with that, and what that mean to you? SW: Well, we realized that after many years of running UWW, we realized that so many of our graduates kept asking us "we want to do an interdisciplinary master's program. We loved the fact that we could put together our own programs here at UWW. We could create these interdisciplinary, these programs that saw the synergy between different disperate academic inquires. And that by allowing, you know, science and art to talk to each other, we get something bigger and more." And they kept wanting to know where there were graduate programs like that. There weren't very many. There were only, in the country, there was a master's of liberal studies at Gerogetown, there was one in the mid-west, there was maybe one out in Oregon. There weren't very many. And we thought, you know, we should really think about whether or not we the capacity to offer – we being Skidmore. Because of course all these programs need the energy and support of the faculty, and the faculty are [cough] – excuse me – [cough] The faculty have a fulltime job teaching the undergraduate residential students. So, we started small. And I was on the ground floor of this program. Once the prison program closed, I came over. The director of UWW had begun, became the director of MALS, he and his secretary were beginning to put the idea together, and they hired me as the advisor, as the person to help work with the students and put course programs together. It took a while, and we knew that we had to keep it small, cause again, it taxed the energies of the faculty. A graduate student needs more work, needs more attention, needs more intellectual stimulation than an undergraduate. And so we understood that starting a graduate program would mean a real commitment on the faculty's part. So, I worked with the director. We also had a faculty advising committee. We had a group of faculty who came on board and looked at what we could do. It felt like it was workable, so we went forward and designed it pretty much looking like UWW, but instead of 120 credit undergraduate program, it was a thirty credit master’s program. And it was interdisciplinary, so the students had to have at least two disciplines represented, they had to write a thesis, and/or a final program. Some of the performing arts students did photography exhibits, they did creative writing programs, but it was– they had to do a thesis at the end. And those were all to be reviewed by a team of readers. So again, it was very intensive faculty advising, which was on of the reasons why it eventually closed. I mean, it needed so much energy on the part of residential faculty, and the residential faculty was also needing and experiencing more and more with their residential students, their undergraduates, that the college really felt it couldn't sustain it. Which I thought, was probably a reasonable decision on the part of the college. If we are going to do it, we want to do it well, and to the best of everyone's ability. And I think the faculty were feeling very pulled in many directions. IL: Thank you. With this, you were teaching, at the same time a couple classes? SW: Yes. Every semester, while I was doing all my off campus UWW or MALS work, at least one course a semester I would teach in the evening, in the English department. I liked to keep connected– I liked to feel connected to the residential students. IT helped me to make sure that the work I was doing with UWW students and masters students was in line with what the college was doing with its residential students. So, the English department– I as an adjunct faculty member was hired for at least one or two courses in the evening, per semester to teach. And I taught English 103, English 105, and then I worked with the international students. So that was on going. I did that for decades, but it was always quiet, and it was always a smaller part of my Skidmore identity, the most being my work in the non-traditional programs. When both of them closed, UWW and Master, I was not quite ready to retire. I was, I really felt that I had more that I wanted to give, and more, more projects, more opportunities I wanted to offer. I also had a couple of classes that I'd never taught before that were in the back of my head. The most recent being my travel writing course. I'd never taught this, but I's always, always been an avid traveler, I'd always been an avid travel-writing reader, and I kept thinking this is a vehicle that could be a good one to teach freshman comp. The 103, I mean the one-oh-five courses have a topic base, and therefore I kept feeling like there was a real desire and possibility that this could be a great course. So I put together the course, and I proposed it to the English department the last couple of years of my tenure at Skidmore, and that was kind of what I finished my career doing, was teaching my travel-writing courses, which actually were almost another highlight of my career. So, I started with a great highlight in UWW and I ended with a great positive highlight with my travel-writing students. They were, it was a great course. I think they loved it; I learned a lot. We read wonderful writing from travel writers from all over the world, and since retirement I have tried to follow some of their footsteps, and so I have been to many of the places in which we read narratives. So, it's been great. IL: It's fantastic that you were able to kind of move into a second-high point in your career. SW: I did. And it wasn't more of the same. I really wanted to do something different. And I thank the English department very much for allowing me to do that, because they could have said no, keep doing what you are doing, it's fine. And it was fine, but this was a great plus for me, and I was very pleased to do it, and I had terrific students who still stay connected and are always contacting me and letting me know where they are, and where they're going, and were they are traveling, so it's always good. IL: Wonderful. I remember you saying in a previous conversation, maybe a year, maybe two years ago that you taught in Chine briefly. SW: Oh, yes! Yes! I forgot about that, didn't have that on my list! [both laugh] How could I forget?! Yes. When I was working in the master's program, I had done many years at UWW. We were in eh master's program, I was feeling– I was feeling a little stale. I was not doing as much teaching, as much one-on-one teaching. The UWW program offered me lots of really wonderful teaching opportunities. Once that program closed, then the prison program closed, I was doing almost all administration. And I was fine with that, except I really missed the communication and the connection with students. So, I applied for a sabbatical. As an administrator Skidmore does offer, occasionally, an administrative sabbatical. I was not a tenured faculty member, so I wasn't due a sabbatical, but I applied. I gave them a proposal in which I said I would like to teach for a year in China, at the university Skidmore had a relationship with. And my proposal was approved, I was given a nine months sabbatical, and I went to China. [Laughs] I took off. I did not speak Chinese; I did not need to speak Chinese. My students were all English majors at a teaching university in Shandong province, which is provincial. It is not near a big city; it is not near Beijing or Shanghai. It was in one of the oldest– it was one of the oldest universities in China, and one of the oldest communities. It was in the hometown of Confucius. It was were Confucius was born and were his family and he is buried. And around this very old community, they built a university, and it was a teaching university. So off I went. I left for a year. I lived at this university. I had an apartment on the campus. I taught six courses a semester with thirty-five or forty students in a class, so I taught three hundred students in the course of a year. And I taught composition. So, I was teaching – and they were – their reading English was actually quite good. They understood their reading quite well. Their spoken English was not very good because they had no access to native English speakers. The people who taught them oral English were Chinese teachers. Lovely, very lovely people, but their English was not very clear, and so the students' English was not very clear. So, I taught– I did a lot of informal, come to my apartment, let's practice our English. So, at night, I would teach all day, and then at night I would have twenty-five or thirty students for tea, and we would just talk, and practice our English. So, and then I did that for a year. But then I did composition. The year that I was there our students published a literary magazine. I was very proud of that. The only time they've ever done that. We out it together in the Spring semester. We had an editorial board, we had submissions. The students read the submissions, they made selections, they did editing, they did layout, they did artwork, and we put together a literary magazine for the whole junior class. The junior year was when they did their composition writing in their curriculum. So, I was very proud of that. I had it published, and every student got a copy, which I signed before I left. It was great. It was a good experience, a really good experience, and I have still stayed in contact with many of those students who are now middle-aged at this point. Cause I was there in 2001, 2002, so many of them are adults either working in teaching or working in cooperate situations where they are using their English as translation. IL: That sounds really, really formative experience. SW: Yeah. Well it also was– I think it was one of the impetuous for me wanting to do the travel-writing course. When I got back, I thought, there's so much wonderful writing that goes around travel, and new experiences that I really felt– that began to make more interest. And the reason I ended up going – let me share this with you – the reason I really wanted to go to China was that Skidmore was accepting many more international students at that point in the late-90s, early-2000s. And they were in my classes. They were in my one-oh-three classes, or my English one hundred classes, and I was so impressed with their work ethic, and their diligence, and how hard it was for them to work in an environment where this was completely not in their native language. And I thought, I would really like to know more about the Chinese educational system because they are producing these really interesting, smart, thoughtful, fun students that are coming to Skidmore. So that's really what got me started. And when I found out we had a relationship with a university in China that we could send faculty there to teach, I jumped on that opportunity. So Skidmore, the undergraduates were actually my stimulus for me going to China. IL: That's fantastic that the courses here fed nicely in, and then the experience in China fed into your next [SW: Right, exactly.] set of courses. So in working with these international students in EN 100 and EN 103, I know you taught EN one-oh-three for, what, twenty-two years? SW: Right. A really long time. [both laugh] IL: Just a bit. SW: Yeah. IL: [both laugh] Could you talk about, sort of, what that meant to you as an adjunct professor? SW: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's unusual, a little unusual for a faculty member to teach a course for that long. There are many more opportunities, with tenured faculty, for them to do more courses. The English department has to provide, kind of, nuts and bolts necessary writing instruction for every student that comes here. It's our responsibility. Obviously, as you know, every student is required to be a competent writer from the get-go. They walk on this campus and every faculty member expects them to be able to be a thoughtful, competent writer. That is true for most of our students, but not all of our students. And certainly, our international students have a much steeper learning curve. And so, I– I was always a teacher, I am a teacher who likes to work with students who are challenged. I find that absolutely so stimulating. Whether they are adult students coming back and need to work around family, or whether they are prison students who have to deal with their life in prison, as well as their education, or international students who have to deal with a new language, or students, regular residential students who are coming out a high school experience that was maybe not as absolutely basically fulfilling as it could have been. And so, they are here at Skidmore because they are smart. My students are really smart. They are so capable, but their skill level, the stuff that they need to know, the nuts and bolts – the kind of tools that they needed – they may not have them all in their toolbox yet. My job as a 103 teacher was to give them the tools that they may or may not have gotten in high school. And, for me, every student that walked into my class – even though I am teaching the same course – every student who walked in was an individual challenge. And for me that was so stimulating because I had to figure out a way to help each one of these students, in whatever way I could, to get him or her to the place where they could be fully successful at Skidmore. So, I loved that. I loved the idea that helping a student– especially writing. Writing is not a discipline that has right answers the way maybe biology does. Either this is this enzyme, or it’s that enzyme. Or history: it's either this year or that year. You have to know the facts. In writing there's a path to getting better at this skill, but that path is not a single path. Everybody chooses the path that works best for them. My job was to help each student find his or her path to becoming a competent writer. And a confident writer. So many times, my students were really fine writers, but they lacked the confidence. They kept saying, well I'm not a good writer, I'm not a good writer. I said, how do you know that? Somebody told me. I said, well, let's forget that. We're not going to worry about that voice, we're going to start a new voice which is you are a competent writer, and you can get better, and our job is to get you there. And that was how I approached English 103 for twenty years. Or more. IL: This is a wonderful philosophy. Do you feel like you have a set– a guiding philosophies or principles that you've followed? Wanting to help people who have challenging perspectives and challenges that they are overcoming. SW: Right, right. I don't know if I– other than the fact that my first– my basic point is that every student can do it. You can do this. This is not impossible for you. It may feel impossible and it may take twice as long than someone else, but you can become a better writer. Writing is not– Writing is a process, it's not a product, and if you think about that then you are going in the right direction. Students always say look at this piece of writing. My writing is not as good as this piece of writing. That's a product. I'm not interested in the product. How did that writer get to that product? That's what we all need to understand. So, if I can help students realize that the best writers edited, and edited, and rewrote, and rewrote, and rewrote, if I can have students figure that out and understand that their writing can always get better, then I've done my job. Because then the student realizes they're in control. They have the capacity to become a better thinker, a better writer, a better reader. All those three things go together. So, that would be my philosophy, that it's a process not a product. Don't look at the product. IL: That's a wonderful philosophy, and thinking about then, the process, you've been– or were at – Skidmore while technology was changing. SW: Right. IL: That effects many– SW: Huge! Yes, yeah, great question. Yeah, I'm thinking back over my early years. In fact, I always used to tell my students about using a typewriter, and of course they would look at me like I was crazy. They would– I would tell them about the card catalog in the library, where you would have to go an actually look at a piece of three-by-five card to find the book and go in the stacks, and that there was no electronic databases at all, these kinds of things. But, yes. And writing has been incredibly impacted by all the technology. Research, for example, was a– used to be a big frustration for me. I always wanted the students to get into the library to understand the notion of searching out information using, what I considered the old way of thinking about knowledge acquisition. The students taught me so much more because they are so much more facile with the electronic databases, with accessing information. My job for them was to always help them sort out what was the value of the information. It's not quantity, it's quality, and so my shift– I had to shift my focus from here's how you get information – research, etc. – to how do we know this information is valuable, it's correct, it's been reviewed. That's critical nowadays because there's too much information out there and it make students crazy. They grab the first ten things they find, eight of which are bogus. They have to figure out, let's make sure they understand how to validate the data they are gathering and the information that they're reviewing, and to realized that more so now than ever before, the author has to be validated. What is the author's point of view? Who is the author? Is there an agenda behind the author's point of view? Are we getting a balanced approach to the information? So, technology has made students, faculty lives, both more helpful, more easier, but also there are much more responsibility that come along with this huge availability of information that we must be responsible for figuring out what's valid and what isn't. IL: That's a great– That's really interesting for me to hear about the shift in research, because that is such a big part of student life now. SW: Exactly. I mean, huge, huge amounts. Students do their research in their dorm rooms. That's not the way I did any of my research as an undergraduate or as a graduate student. Or as a teacher! Even as a professor I would be in the library, I still an in the library. It feels right to me to be in the library, but I'm becoming a relic. And students who are– the young faculty who are coming on board, they do their research just like our undergraduates do now. So it's becoming a little more seamless. We older folks are fading away [laughs] and moving into– we understand that times are changing. IL: So we're wrapping up the interview here. Is there anything that we haven't covered that you would like to cover? SW: No. I'm glad you asked about China because I totally forget about my China experience which was amazing. As I said at the beginning, I think that my profession trajectory is so uniquely a part of the Skidmore philosophy. I don't know of another institution that would have allowed me, encouraged me, championed me, to do the kinds of things I have done at Skidmore over thirty-three years. It's a testament to Skidmore's creative thought matters slogan that they allow an individual like me, a faculty like me, to do, to think, to work with students, to incorporate, to invite different populations of students into the Skidmore learning experience. And I can't thank the college enough for that. It's been a terrific experience for me. My children, who did not go to Skidmore, they think very, very warmly of this place, and understand how much it's meant to me and it has affected them too as they've watched me do my teaching the way I have. So, I thank Skidmore a great deal for that opportunity. IL: wonderful. So thank you very much Sandy. SW: You're welcome, you're welcome, Isabel. This has been a great pleasure, and good luck on the project. IL: Thank you very much. February 5, 2020 Interview Isabel M.R. Long: My name is Isabel Long. Today is February 5th, 2020 and I'm here with Sandra Walter in library 126 – sorry, 128C. We're on Skidmore College campus. We are here to do interview two of two in our series for the Saratoga Skidmore memory project. So just to give a brief overview of what we previously covered, we talked about the prison program that ran at Saratoga, in– with the local prison for a while, and we talked about graduate programs which Sandy was head for a while. We talked about her time teaching EN103, and traveling to China and working in China, and then teaching her travel writing class. Sandy Welter: All good. [Both laugh.] All right. Thanks for reminding me. IL: You're welcome. It was a fabulous conversation. SW: It was, I enjoyed it very much. IL: I'm glad, I did too. So, I have just a couple things to follow up with [SW: Sure.] that I'd love some clarification. So, one of the things you mentioned very briefly right at the end of our conversation was your sons' connection with Skidmore. You mentioned they felt very connected to college even though we did not attend here. SW: Right. IL: Could you elaborate on their connections with Skidmore? SW: Well, as you know, I live right in Saratoga Springs. They were born and raised here in Saratoga. And in the early days of Skidmore, both my husband, at that time, and I were affiliated with Skidmore, he in the counseling center and me– I was, at that time, teaching in the public schools, but was involved with bringing my kids to campus for various projects and activities that happened here on campus. It was a much smaller community back then than it is now, and so the kids, my children, felt very much as though Skidmore was a sort of home away from home. When I started teaching here full time, they, um, they use my office as a great after school drop off place, sometimes, to stop in on their way off to a soccer game, or practice, or a bike ride with some friends. And so, while they did not necessarily participate, um, educationally in the activities, they did- they did fully appreciate the community that Skidmore offered all of them, the faculty and staff that lived- that lived and worked here. They used the library regularly, they loved to the library, and, uh, you know, they had many friends whose parents were also involved at Skidmore, and so it was a sort of a mini community. So that's sort of what I meant, was I think Skidmore was an extension of– they felt as comfortable here on the Skidmore campus as I would downtown, or at the high school, or the other places that they were active in. IL: Wonderful, thank you. One of the things you mentioned is that your former husband worked at Skidmore. SW: He did. Yep. IL: Yeah, so, from my understanding from our last review you joined the working body of the Skidmore community later on. SW: Right, exactly. I came to Skidmore as a new bride, actually. My husband, at the time, he and I got married right after– I got married right out of college, actually. He got the first– the job as the first director of counseling center here at Skidmore. Skidmore didn't have a counseling center in 1971. They were about– they had just started to accept men. There was a clear need for a network for support for students. The student body was moving to the new campus. When I first came in 1971, my husband's office was in downtown, in the old– on the old campus. Many of the activities of course we're still here at the new– I called the new campus, the campus. And, so, I came, as a new bride. My husband was working at Skidmore and I was in graduate school. I was doing my graduate work at SUNI Albany. So, I did my graduate work and finished. After finishing my graduate work, I got a job teaching in the Saratoga Springs high school, and taught there, and was tenured there for the next six– five or six years. At that point I had two small children and did not go back to teach full-time. And by the mid 80s, the early 80s my children were two and five. They were starting to go off to school or school in kindergarten, and I was anxious to get back to the workforce. I had many friends here at Skidmore, through my husband, and I was invited to come and work at UWW, and then in the English Department. So, it was an interestingly slow transition to Skidmore for me. I started actually as a faculty wife, as an employee's wife, but then came on as a– as a full-time employee and faculty member. IL: Thank you for elaborating. SW: Sure. IL: There's several pieces of your comments I really want to touch on. SW: Yeah. IL: We're going to go back to a couple of the them. SW: Sure. IL: But first that I think is relevant– kind of in chronological order, working backwards, is the transition to a co-educational school for Skidmore. SW: Right. IL: You were here right as that was happening. [SW: Yeah, yes.] Was there a culture shift that was going on? SW: Yeah. IL: Could you help me understand what the campus atmosphere was like? SW: Yeah, yeah. It was– it was a huge culture shift. I came from my undergraduate school, Elmira College in western part of New York State, went through exactly the same transition when I was an undergraduate student. So when I started at Elmira it was in all women's college, when I graduated it was a co-educational institution, so in four years at had transition to a co-educational institution. When I got here to Skidmore, right after I had graduated from my undergraduate school, it was also in that exact same transition. So, both Elmira and Skidmore were probably transitioning to a co-educational institution at exactly the same time. And there was a huge cultural shift. I guess the funniest story that I can share with you which I think encapsulates exactly the problem– actually two small stories. The first was, I can always remember my husband coming home and saying, 'Well the men are in the counseling center all the time.' I said, 'Oh dear are they having a terrible time?' He said 'No, actually the problems are fairly soluble. And I said, 'What do you mean?' I said, 'I mean are they are they having major emotional problems?' He said 'No, no.' He said, 'The first problem is that there's no options except ballet in terms of physical education for them, and they were having difficulties explaining to the phys-ed department that they needed more options. And the second was that they couldn't get enough food. That the cafeteria was not serving them large enough portions. That they kept going back, and back, and back and that the cafeteria ladies were used to feeding women, you know young women, and not used to feeding eighteen-year-old boys.' So, he said, 'Once we get those two things straightened out, I think that the mental health of the entire community will probably be a whole lot better.' So that gives you a sense of sort, the small problems that could go in co-education, you know, provided or presented to the college. Obviously, dormitories and space, and those kinds of things. But really, they needed to think about their curriculum, they needed to think about their support services, and I think they've done a great job of doing that over the years. IL: Thank you. So, you mentioned, Elmira going co-ed, and being at Elmira. Could you help me understand what your time at Elmira was like? SW: Sure! I was– I came from a fairly– a very blue-collar working-class community in southern Connecticut. Going– I was the first member of my whole family to go to college. And so, going off to college for me was huge, and the idea in the early 1960s, for me to go off to college, to really have a completely different experience would be to go to a girl school, for me. I don't know why that I was convinced that that was an important thing, but somehow, I was convinced that that was a good thing to do. And so, I started applying applied to many of the women's institutions at the time, and I got into a lot of them. I selected Elmira not because it was the best. Because in retrospect, probably in terms of just in terms of academic caliber, it probably wasn't the strongest of the ones that I had gotten accepted into, but it was the one that was the farthest away from home. And so, I chose that. Because I what I needed to do at that moment, was to prove to myself that I could be a college student and live in an environment completely different than when I was used to. And so, I went to Elmira. It actually was a wonderful, wonderful choice for me. I met some, some fantastic faculty who have– who remained supportive of me for my entire career, and beyond. I met some lovely, lovely women who have remained friends my whole life, in fact just had a reunion with a couple of them, over 50 years of reunion with a bunch of them recently. I went junior year abroad, and so I went to the University of Leicester in England for an entire year, which was an amazing experience for me, and was– and it probably fed my latent desire to all– to travel, to see the world, which I have continued to feed throughout my entire life. So, Elmira was a wonderful experience for me. It prepared me well for graduate school. I went to SUNI Albany and got my degree there, and felt well prepared, and was very happy to be trained in the early 70s to be a teacher, and so I felt as though I had gotten a very good education, even though I think, the reasons I ended up– I initially went there were probably not the best. [Chuckles.] IL: You ended up being there, and then a transitional moment for Elmira. SW: Yeah, yeah it was– of course, anywhere you were. If you were in college in the late 1960s, you were in the midst of a huge revolution, cultural revolution in terms of, of identity and educational opportunities, and politics, and countercultural definitions. This was all so embedded in a college experience at the time. I mean, I started college in 1967, I was at Woodstock in 1969. I was in– I was at the University of Leicester in 1969 and '70, and then I graduated in 1971. So, it was right in the in the heat of all of the activities that were going on campuses across the country so, you couldn't avoid, it is great. IL: If you had to pick kind of a definitive moment of your college experience, what would it be? SW: Well, I think it was the opportunity to go abroad. That was– I mean Elmira is this small little sleeping community in western upstate New York. It doesn't necessarily provide the kinds of– even the simulations that Saratoga does. Saratoga Springs is a culturally rich environment beautiful, beautiful geography. Elmira is not that. Didn't have that kind of opportunity, both visually, geographically, and culturally. So, for me to go abroad and to study, and to be there for a year, was life changing for me. And that– I worked with some fantastic faculty at the university. I met several of them later on, after I finish my degree and have– and stayed in touch with many of them. Most of them are gone now, by now. IL: Could you help me understand the wonderful experience of being at Leicester? SW: Yeah, yup. It was– well it's– it's not– it's a red brick university, that's one of the quality characteristics. It's one of the universities that grew out of the push to enlarge the university system in Britain after the Second World War. It was well, well known for its English literature faculty. Many of the universities of Britain had a particular strength, and so if you were interested in X, Y, or Z you would think to look at, to go to those institutions. Leicester had a very strong English literature and culture department, and I, I was lucky enough to get accepted into that. And so, that to me was life changing. Their educational system, which is much different than United States, in which we took classes once a week, didn't have exams except at the end of the year, met in one on one tutorials with the faculty every week, so you were always had to be prepared, you always had to be ready to be able to speak what you had in your mind well face to face with a full professor, and then, and then prepare for an exam that you would have only at the end of the year. So, it was a very difficult, very different way of learning than I was used to here in the United States. And that taught me a lot about pedagogy, which I put to work when I came here to work at Skidmore. IL: Fantastic. If you could only pick a couple individuals who defined your time at Leicester, who would they be and why? SW: I think that the uh– I think that the Shakespeare professor was particularly wonderful. And I’m not going to remember his name, sorry. [IL: No worries.] I could've– I also took, I took an American history course. Because I was intrigued at the time to see how, how the British taught American history, and that professor also was absolutely fabulous. And showed me a way of looking at history in general, and history of my own country in relationship to Britain that I never had had been given before. So that was exceptionally fine. The third component– the third really important part of my experience at Leicester had really nothing much to do with my faculty as much as it had to do with two groups of students. One was a group of international students that we formed. There were six or seven of us. Two of us from United States, one from Australia, three from Germany, two from Japan, etc. So, we had this group of international students who were international students at Leicester at the time, all studying either in the foreign languages department, or in the history departments. And so, we ended up taking classes with each other and gathered in very informal friendship group throughout the year, because we were the– we were the foreigners, we were the outsiders. And it was– it's fairly small university and so they weren't a lot of us. We've stayed in contact with each other over almost– over almost 50 years now, so I just, in fact, two days ago spoke with the German student who friend of mine, and he's on his way to Japan to meet with Hiroshi, one of our other students. It has been over 50 years. So that group of students has were really influential and showing me how the rest of the world thought. How they think. How do other people in other parts of the world think. And again, that really informs that well how I teach. The other group of students that helped me a huge amount where the women in my dormitory. We lived in a hall, called College Hall, and we were– we ate together. It was part of the system. We would be at least once or twice a week we would eat together and have high tea together. We studied together, often. And again, we have stayed in close contact with each other over all these years. A group of us just had a reunion last year. And went I went back to Britain and saw them for the first time in almost 50 years. And we had a lovely time. Picked up right where we left off. [Chuckles.] IL: That's fantastic. SW: So those kinds of experience, both friend friendships, were as much– as much a influencing force on who I am as a, as a teacher and as a, as a person as my faculty were, and they were also quite wonderful. So. IL: Thank you for sharing. SW: Yep, sure. IL: In your time last year, did you travel elsewhere, were you mostly based there? SW: I did travel. I came at the end of August. Our term started in September. We studied until December, and then they have a big long break. During that break, I traveled a great deal. I visited German students in Germany, I went to Austria and Switzerland, and did some skiing and– I did a lot of traveling. And then, in the– after the break in May, that was after my exams were over, many of the foreign students went home. I had– I, luckily, had saved enough money and then I could actually stay for another couple of months. So, I stayed through August. So, I was gone almost twelve months, and during that time I traveled to Spain, and Italy, France and did more of the southern European traveling, and again met up with many of the students and friends that I had met during the year. I did, I did hike in April. I hiked the Lake District with a with one of my college friends, in Britain. I went to Edinburgh; I went to Glasgow I went to Wales. I did see a great deal of Britain, because it was easy. It's easy to do so because of the train, trains, and it was inexpensive if I had a student pass, I could get anywhere, and I backpacked the whole time. So, I stayed in hostels and it was really inexpensive. I could, I could get around easily under $5 a day. So. I was able to do that as well. IL: With being on campus and involved in student culture in Britain, you define some of the Elmira culture as having the counterculture movement super characteristic [SW: Right.] of the late 60s, early 70s. Was that something that [SW: No.] was distinct? SW: No, yeah. It wasn't– we did not see that as much. I did not see that, at least I don't remember. It's a long time ago. [Chuckles.] I don't remember that at all. And it was funny because, because I was gone in 1969, 1970, I kind of unplugged from the height of the activities that were going on in my country at the time, and I didn't– I was gone a full year from August to August, and that's, that was a long time. That's a lot of– a lot of events occurred during that year that I was not in the in, you know, in my country, to experience. In Britain, it was much less– I was, I was very involved in my local life, and did not necessarily, feel a sense of that counterculture movement at all. IL: So, you went to Woodstock, left for Britain– SW: I did. IL: Was away for a year, and then came back. SW: Exactly, exactly! In fact, I got– I went to Woodstock, and two and half weeks later I left for Britain. And when I got there, everybody at the university said, 'did you go to Woodstock?' And I said, 'I, I did.' And they could not believe it. They said, 'no.' I said 'yeah. I was there.' And I was. [Both laugh.] I was. So, that was– I kind of became sort of instant celebrity for a few weeks. [Laughs.] And then classes start, and then everyone was busy. IL: Was it like a story you told them to, kind of, share what that experience, since they were so interested? SW: Well, well yeah, they asked because it had just happened. I mean, literally just happened, and here's two Americans arriving on their university not, you know, two-and-a-half or three or three weeks after they watched all this on their, on their telly. And here we are, and my friend Jackie and I, Jackie was not at Woodstock, and I arrive at Leicester. And, you know, that's what they wanted to know. Well, what was it like? And so, all I can remember telling them was it was very muddy, 'cause it rained the entire time. I said it was very muddy, and there were lots and lots of people, and it was the most peaceful group of half, quarter million people I've ever seen in my life. Ever. So, you know, it was– of course the music was fabulous. And they wanted to hear did you here so-and-so, and did you hear so-and-so? And I– yep, yep, yep. IL: So, in learning about their culture, they also very– SW: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. IL: So then, when you got back to the US– SW: Yeah. IL: How had your perspective on Elmira, for example, or your life in the US changed? SW: Yeah, and it had changed a great deal. Really good question. You know, I– I realized how–I mean there was a part of me that realized, because I wanted– 'cause I decided to go as far away from home as I could, that staying at home was small. That there was something– it was loving, and wonderful, and I loved my hometown, and my family but there was something about it that was a little stifling for me. And– because nobody ever left. It was a kind of place where everybody was happy being right where they were, and that southern Connecticut was just fine. Just a fine place to be born, and raised, and work, and die. And I'm thinking, no, no I don't think so. Not for me. And so by going off to Elmira and then going to England, that way– it was like, it was like I lit a fire, and that's, as you can imagine, as you know as one of my former travel writing students, you know that I continue to constantly desire to see more and more of the world. This interview had to be postponed because I was in Africa just until a couple of weeks ago. So, I have continued to be just enthralled with the variety and the complexity and the beauty of this world. And that's certainly what Elmira and my experience at Leicester started way back when I didn't know, I mean, didn't know a thing. I was so naive, and so young and so inexperienced that I give– I gotta give myself credit for trying as much as I did even back then, 'cause I think I didn't know what I was doing at all but, it will worked out fine. IL: I'm glad. SW: Yep. IL: Could you kind of describe sort of an average day in your hometown? SW: Ah! An average day my hometown. Well, my hometown was a working class, pretty much exclusively– not exclusively. About 80% Italian, first generation Italian Roman Catholic blue-collar community. Most of the men went off to New Haven and worked as tradesmen or as factory workers. Almost– most of the moms stayed home and took care of their families. I lived in a small post-World War Two little house in a little development where all the houses looked about the same. I walked to school. I walked home for lunch. I walked to my high school. It was– it had a very old downtown center, which of course, because it's Connecticut, it had some pieces of early pre-revolutionary notes– old stone church and an old green and area. But, and there was an old neighborhood. But the large portion of my day was spent in these kind of post-World War Two developments of young families. There were in every house in my neighborhood there was two to four children. And when you– when we walked to school, the whole street was filled with kids. When you walked home, it filled with children. You went home, you put your play clothes on, and you went outside. And you were in the neighborhood playing with friends until your mom called you for dinner, and dinner, homework, and in bed, and then off to school again. My parents owned a little tiny cottage on the shores of Long Island Sound in the town next to where I was, where I grew up, called Branford, and in the summers we would go there. So, I would unplug from this kind of intense, you know, kind of dense family community, kid-oriented, to a much more relaxed, out– get more or less about doors community, where I stayed all summer, with a whole group of families and friends that were not part of the group of neighbors that I grew up with. But I stayed– we stayed in that community. My sister and I grew up in East Haven, we both went to East Haven high school, graduated. My sister actually bought my parents' house when they graduated, and so she stayed there her whole life. She stayed there her life. She never, again, she never left. And that's was not at all atypical. She was friends with all of her high school friends. I was not. I mean, I didn't see my high school friends much 'cause I never– never was home again. And we had different– we had different interests. They were happy to be where they were, and I was not. You know, I wanted to see more. But, I mean, it was it was a lovely childhood. It was lots of fun, and lots of activities. I remember learning to roller-skate on the streets, and interesting things that people can't even imagine. That you rake your leaves. All the families would rake their leaves into the– into the edge of the street, and then you'd burn them. Which of course, God forbid you can't– but never do that now, and that you'd come home, and you'd play in the leaves, and they'd be these little fires in these little embers, and it would get dark and you can remember seeing the embers along the side of the road, and you come in and you smell like, like leaf smoke. These are, you know, these wonderful memories that kids don't have anymore. It's just not a– it's a different life, it's a different environment. But kids have other wonderful things to think about now too, right, so. IL: Do you– is there, kind of, one memorable meal from your childhood you could tell me about? SW: Well, I’m a– I'm from– my grandparents on my mother's side were both Swedish. They were first– they were born in Sweden, came as younger, young people, both my grandfather and my grandmother. My grandmother was a wonderful cook. I can always remember my grandmother making a roast– and they didn't have very much. They were– they had large family, not very much money, and we would go over to my grandparents' house on Sundays sometime, or certainly on a holiday. So, if it was a holiday like, I don't know, Easter, or Christmas, or something, she would make a roast pork. Some kind of a piece of large piece of meat. And there'd be hundreds of grandchildren, seems to me, there wasn't hundreds, but there was a lot of grandchildren, lots of children around. And she would be cooking and baking, and there'd be potatoes and, and she would make– always have– so this, this big piece of meat would come out and I will be sitting in my grandfather would cut it up, he was a carpenter. He built a lot of Yale University in his, in his active years as a carpenter. So, he would take the trolley from Branford, his hometown, to New Haven, work on the buildings at Yale, and then come home again. So, he always remembered– I remember as a child him telling me– we'd take the bus into New Haven, and he'd say, 'you see that? I built that, I built that archer, or I–’ ‘cause he built all the woodwork, he did all the woodwork. Anyway, so, we were at this, at this– he was cutting up the meat, and everybody got a piece of this meat, and then we had roast potatoes and vegetables, etc. And I looked at my grandmother's plate, and always, this was always the case, on my grandmother's plate were all the bones. Just the bones. And I said, 'Grandma, you don't have any meat.' She said, 'Oh, I don't want any of the meat.' She said, 'This is the best part.' And she would pick up and spend the whole meal just nibbling, and sucking, and chewing off all of the good parts of the bones. Now, I can– you know, as a child, I kept thinking, well she just doesn't want to give– she wants to make sure that everybody get some meat, and so she's giving it all to all the children, and she's just being generous. But I think she was right. I actually think she was right, that probably that was really delicious, all of the good roasted bones. The other, other thing that I always remember– my grandmother was really the center of my meal remembrance. My mother was not a very good cook at all, and once I got to be a teenager, I ended up doing a lot of the cooking in my house 'cause my mother really was not, did not like to cook. So many, many of my memorable meals were at my grandmother's. Whenever you walked into my grandmother's house day or night, 8:00 o'clock in the morning, 10:00 o'clock at night, there was always a big pot of coffee perking on her stove. Didn't matter what time it was, it was always hot. and just perking. Hear that little blurp, blurp, and the whole house smelled of coffee. And the other thing you'd always smell is Swedish coffee cakes. She would bake Swedish coffee cakes every morning, and you could smell the cardamom, and the other in– clove, which you put in the coffee cakes, and so there was always, always coffee and always coffee cake in her house, whenever you walked in the house it didn't matter. And you, and you– and Grandma would always let us, the grandchildren, even as little as we were, taste a little sip of coffee, we could taste some. So that was always exciting. IL: Sounds really lovely to have that– to know that you could go and get some coffee. SW: Yes. Grandma was– she always had coffee going, and there was always a coffee cake that she had just taken out of the oven. She was a great cook, and she taught me how to cook. She was the one that taught me how to cook. I remember as I was in college, I went and visited her, and knew or realize that she was getting very old, and so I sat down and asked her to give me her recipes, some of her recipes. She of course, she never measured anything. And I said, 'Well Grandma, show me how you make the rice pudding.' She'd say, 'okay,' and then she would sit there, and she would say, 'Well first you take some rice.' And I said, 'Well, how much rice?' 'You know, enough.' [Laughing] And I say, 'This isn't going to work.' I said, 'I'll tell you what, you make the rice pudding, and let me watch you, and then I'll be able to figure it out.' So as she was making it, I would make her– I would ask her to stop, just before she would pour the milk in, or pour the rice in, or pour the seasoning in, and measure it. I would measure it because she didn't– it would be this is how much it is, whatever it was. I said, 'Okay,' and so I would measure it and then write it all down. I had to cut some of the recipes still. IL: Do you have a favorite recipe you made? SW: I like her rice pudding. That's what we– she always made the best rice pudding. And it's– again, that they were very poor, and so they used everything up. So rice, if you made rice, you always made rice pudding with it. And she would make oatmeal, oatmeal cookies because she'd make oatmeal or porridge for the, all the kids and then whatever was left she would make something. She would make delicious dumplings. She was a good dumpling maker. So these are some of the things I remember. Easy, inexpensive meals. IL: It– food's always a really wonderful, I think, part of family life generally. SW: Yes, yeah. IL: Is there kind of a, memorable meal you've had with your kids since then? SW: My own kids. Well, you know, we– yeah. I, I like to cook. I'm, I very much like to cook. And because I had two sons, and no daughters, I just taught them how to cook this, because why not? And they were interested. So, and they are now in their 40s, and so. One of the things I had– one of my sons, when he was seven, after having done a research paper at elementary school or kindergarten about animals, you know, and realizing that people ate animals, he decided he was going to be a vegetarian, at age eight, or so. And I said, 'That's fine, you know, that's fine. If that's what you want, and then we'll do.' Then the other son, he was like, you know, 'No I’m not going to do that.' So, I was making– I tried to make a vegetarian option for, for my– for Josh, the younger one. The problem was of course, is he didn't like vegetables. [IL laughs.] So, I said, 'Sweetie, if you're going to be a vegetarian you have to eat vegetables, and you have to figure out how to get some protein.' So, he said, 'Well, I like pasta.' So, I mean– and he liked peanut butter. So, there were many years, I think, in his life where he subsisted on pasta with tomato sauce, which had some vegetables, and peanut butter sandwiches. He's now, you know, six-two, and you know, is perfectly well, well-endowed in terms of a healthy strong man, and his– I think one of our favorite meals was we used to make homemade pasta. And with a with a roller, with a machine hand-cranked pasta rolling machine, and he was, got very good at– now he has twin seven-year-olds, little girls, and he, every month, every Sunday they make homemade pasta together. So, it's carried on several, you know, several generations now, homemade pasta which is one of the twins' favorite meals. And pizza, lots of pizza. They love pizza, which of course Josh makes from scratch, so. So, that kind of shaped our, our meals a lot. IL: Meals are always prepared in kitchens. That's always something– I found now, being in college that that's very important [SW: Yeah.] space sometimes. So, with your home, would you define the kitchen– how, how would you define your kitchen? SW: Yeah, it's the center of our house. And still is, even without the kids there, still the center of our house. When I entertain, we all end up in the kitchen, for some reason, because I have a big kitchen, I have a cooking and working kitchen, 'cause I like to cook, and I liked other people to be in my kitchen with me when I'm working and cooking. My kitchen is also an open space into a family room. So, there's a, a couch and a TV, and bookcases, and things to read and do as well as the kitchen area which is kitchen-y. So, it's a wing of my house that's probably the most used. My kids, when we did– my house is a 1791 farmhouse. This is this old farmhouse. When we first bought it, the kitchen was kind of an old Victorian 19th century add-on to the original revolutionary-time farmhouse, and it was not in very good shape. So, we tore it down very soon after we bought the house and built this bigger space, and in that space we made the kitchen area, but we made it because we knew that we wanted, also, the whole family to be part of it. So we made this larger space for the family living. And when the children were small, it was their play area. There was nothing in there with a big rug, and all their toys, and so that they could play, we could talk, I could cook, they could come over and help me cook, or go back and play. So, it was a good space for when they were younger. When they got older, and moved in my books, and a TV, and things like that so we could use it in that way as well. So, it's a big part of my– it's still a big part of my– big heart of, the heart of my house. So you've been to the house, so you, you remember what it was like. It's a– it's a working, it's a good working kitchen. IL: It's very beautiful. SW: Oh, thanks. [Chuckles.] IL: So, I'm thinking that about, your house that you very much made your own, making the kitchen the way you want it. SW: Right. IL: That's– How would you say that's defined your experience in Saratoga? SW: Yeah. That's a really good question because in 1971, we'll circle back to my graduating from Elmira, and getting married, and my then-newly-minted husband saying, 'I just got this job at Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs. We're going to move– we have to move there.' And I then change my graduate work to SUNI Albany, rather than other places. And I came up here, and Saratoga in 1971 was not a very attractive city. Skidmore was struggling. It was just starting to try to get its feet on the ground, in terms of co-education. It was changing its location from the old campus to the new campus. It was, it was struggling, it was. And the city itself was really struggling. It was very depressed, and depressing. I just got here and looked around and said, 'Oh my gosh. I really have to love this man to come and live here [laughs] because I don't know about this place.' And you know it– and it was, it was difficult at first because it was a difficult place, but within a year we made wonderful friends. We lived in several houses in the community before we moved to the farmhouse that I currently living now. I loved working in the high school. I met wonderful community leaders and friends, and other teachers. My graduate work was excellent at SUNI Albany, and I ended up lot starting to love the upstate New York area. I got to know the Adirondacks, so I got to understand lake environments, 'cause I was so used to being near the ocean that I missed the saltwater. I missed the ocean. And the lakes seemed to be not an adequate substitute. But in fact, it– they were. And I learned to really love this area. And Saratoga, at that time, was then beginning to really open up, and grow. It was a time when opportunities to do interesting things within the community were available as well. If you were young, and energetic, and had ideas, people were around that said, 'Well let's try it,' because there was– We needed to do something. So, I met a group of women, both faculty wives and community women. We did things like starting the gifted and talented program out of the high school in elementary school. We worked on art festivals where we took all of the abandoned, that, not abandoned, the for lease, vacant storefronts on Broadway, and there were many, if you can imagine. You think about Broadway now, it's absolutely chockablock with wonderful opportunities for businesses. There were places in blocks of Saratoga, of Broadway that were empty. That these businesses were just empty. And we put together things like an arts festival where high school kids could come in, and we would, we would display their artwork. We would have– we would bring in local artists to do demonstrations and classes. We started working with Historical Society. So, there was stuff that we could do, that young– if we were young and had energy, they were willing to have us do, and we did. And so that was lovely, and it was a way of, again, validating my interests and my energies, and my children could see their community really growing. And it was a lovely place to live. I mean, they're just nice people here. Just, just really nice people in this community, both here at Skidmore as well as in the, in the town itself. IL: Is there any particular project in town that you're proud of? SW: Well, I– you know, I'm very proud of the– I worked, early days, with the, with the gifted and talented program. Phyllis Aldridge, a wonderful friend who's still alive, still here in town, organized this project where we were able to take, present after school opportunities for talented young students in many of the elementary schools, and we would meet at the library, the library which was downtown, and we would do courses. I did a poetry writing course, I did a journal writing course. There was art classes, there were music classes. That I'm very proud of. We did, I did a journalism course where we put together a newspaper. We visited the Saratogian which was the local newspaper, is the local newspaper, and brought all the kids there. So this is the kind of thing that I'm very proud of, and it's still going. That, that's great. That kind of grassroots effort, I think, is so, so satisfying. And the town is big, much, much larger now and much more complex, but still, I think, it still has that kind of heart of wanting to do the best for its citizens. IL: That's fantastic, thank you for describing that. I'm– have covered most of what I have on my list here. SW: Sure. IL: But I have one question that kind of jumps a little bit away from what we were discussing. SW: Sure, yeah, yeah. IL: When did you first realize you liked writing? SW: Ah! That's a great question. I want to make sure I'm very honest and clear about this, I'm going to think. Well, I was always a reader. So that's first, first and foremost. And I, as you know, and as I've told my, all of my writing students, you can't be a good writer and less you're a good reader. You have to read because the word on the page becomes your models, and becomes your image– the images and the, and the cadences of the other writers as they write on the page become the voices in your head, and that's really, really terrific. So, I was always an avid, avid reader. I think that I never thought of myself as a writer primarily because it never was ever encouraged. It was again, if you think back, I've lived in this kind of community where it was not that sort of writing. Oh, you know, that's, that's fancy stuff, you know, that's writing is fancy stuff. I think I started writing in elementary school because I got a diary, for a gift, like a Christmas gift or something, or birthday present, and I, and I got a pen pal. And so, the idea of having a pen pal in another city– I got two pen pals when I was little girl, one was in another city in New England, someplace. I guess one of my teachers hooked us, you know, hooked the students up with a pen pal, and another was a pen pal in India. Don't ask me how I got that pen pal in India, but I got one, and I always remember loving to write letters to her and getting her letters back 'cause the stamps were so fabulous. The stamps were the best. And the paper felt so different than the paper that I had in the United States. So, those experiences of having a pen pal and having a diary actually probably were the things that started me off on writing, for myself. When I started teaching, I was always involved in, in student newspapers. Forever. From elementary school, to junior high school, to high school, to when I was in college, I was always on the newspaper staff. So, when I started teaching, although I wasn't a writing teacher, I was always teaching all the optional experiences of either journalism or being the newspaper club advisor. So that pushed me in that direction. As I started to do that, I realized that no one was actually teaching these kids how to write at all. It was just by osmosis that they were writing. That they were in English class, but writing wasn't really what was described. When I went to graduate school, I spent a lot of time learning pedagogy around, or, or theory around writing. Writing theory. How does– how do people think about writing, and how do they plant, how do they train themselves to be writers. Which is– what are some strategies. And that turned into some really interesting projects that I did with my high school students. That's what got me started in working with college students. So it was a kind of gradual process, both for me, and then through my early teaching experience to, to the needs of the Skidmore community, and I– because I like working with international students, I started working with international students first with my writing has a tutor, and then transitioned into teaching, working with the larger campus community with writing. IL: Thank you for sharing. I'm– I have a follow-up question with that. You mentioned that your community was fairly dismissive of an interest in writing. SW: Well, yeah. It was– I didn't– I don't remember in my high school, I'm thinking about my high school, my own high school, I don't remember, I mean, I think– the teachers that I remember encouraging me to, to love language was my Latin teacher. My Latin teacher was the person who really inspired me to love language. My English teachers were great, and I remember writing, and they all said, 'That's great, that's great,' but I don't think anybody ever gave me any actual constructive criticism. I don't think anybody sat down with me and said, 'You know, you could make this better.' It was always like, 'It's fine, it's good.' I was an A student, I was always. But I thought, well that doesn't help me. That isn't helping me. If I want to get better, you're just telling me that this is okay, and I'm done. And so, that's what I meant. I didn't– I don't, I don't remember my high school as being a place where creative writing, and in writing in general was encouraged. I could, I could be missing 'cause it was 100 years ago, so, I don't know. [Laughs.] But I'm remembering it mostly as a, something, a love that was nurtured mostly inside of me, and not from an external source until I started working with other students. Then I realized, oh I really love this. IL: Thank you. But, I– Before we kind of wrapped things up, [SW: Yep.] is there anything you'd like to share? Things that have come up in this interview? SW: When you have– you know, you know more about me than, [laughs] than anybody in Saratoga Springs right now! No, it's been a pleasure, actually a pleasure, Isabel talking with you about both my career at Skidmore and my life in Saratoga, and my life as a, as a youngster, and how I got to where I am. And it was, it's actually great fun to think about this because right before I came in here for, to have our conversation, I was FaceTiming with one of my children and my grandchildren, and as I was describing some of these stories I was telling you, I was thinking of them and saying, 'I should tell these stories to these kids. These kids don't know any of these stories.' And they need to know them, I think. So that's– you've peaked my interest ant gotten me excited about sharing some of this with, with them as well. IL: Well I'm so glad, and thank you so much for sharing this with me. SW: You're welcome. IL: It's been an honor and a privilege. SW: My pleasure, and I hope your project in this larger project continues to go as well as, as it seems to be going. IL: Thank you very much. SW: Okay, thank you. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Oral history interview Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) Interview 1 – 54:04 Interview 2 – 54:03 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 128 kbit/s Time Summary A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview November 23, 2019 interview 00:00:00 Header 00:01:55 University Without Walls 00:03:20 University Without Walls prison program 00:05:20 "it changed lives" 00:06:40 Master's program at Skidmore 00:07:24 Master's program closed, and Welter started full-time at the Skidmore English Department 00:08:11 Last ten years of Welter's career 00:09:23 Question on University Without Walls (UWW) 00:13:34 Welter's job with UWW 00:14:09 UWW national forum 00:14:58 Prison program set-up 00:16:36 How Welter became involved in the prison program. 00:18:33 "They were like sponges." 00:19:52 "As close to normal as we could create" for the prison program. 00:20:12 Writing a monograph on behavior, she never felt in danger. 00:23:00 "game plan or guidebook" 00:23:42 Amazing students, hundreds positively impacted by the program. 00:25:12 "All you need to do is let him speak" [on a student of the prison program]. 00:26:18 Master of Liberal Studies (MLS) program 00:28:16 Welter hired as an advisor. 00:30:01 Why the MLS program closed. 00:30:49 On-campus teaching 00:32:00 Not ready to retire, travel writing course. 00:33:40 "Since retirement" 00:34:40 Teaching in China 00:38:26 Literary magazine in China 00:40:00 Welter wanted to go to China because of international Chinese students at Skidmore. 00:41:40 Teaching EN 103 00:42:39 Welter likes "working with students who are challenged." 00:44:30 On the discipline of writing. 00:46:33 "Every student can do this." 00:47:51 Changing technology, writing incredibly impacted. 00:50:48 Technology added ease and responsibility. 00:52:25 Her professional trajectory reflection and in connection with Skidmore philosophy. 00:53:32 How Welter's children think of Skidmore. 00:54:02 END February 5, 2020 interview 00:00:00 Header 00:00:24 Summary of previous interview. 00:01:14 Sons' connection with Skidmore. 00:03:12 Came to Skidmore "as a new bride." 00:04:36 Teaching in the Saratoga Springs High School. 00:05:04 "[A]nxious to get back to the workforce." 00:06:00 Going co-educational, Skidmore and Elmira. 00:08:25 Choosing Elmira. 00:11:27 Cultural revolution in the 1960s. 00:12:18 Going abroad. 00:13:15 University of Leicester. 00:16:06 International students at Leicester. 00:17:37 Women in her dormitory. 00:18:46 Traveling while studying abroad. 00:20:53 Missing events in 1969-70. 00:21:56 Experience with Woodstock. 00:23:39 Returning to the US and "staying at home was small." 00:24:37 "...lit a fire" of interest in seeing the world. 00:25:54 Talking about hometown and childhood. 00:30:14 Her maternal grandparents, eating a meal at their house. 00:32:58 Grandmother's house. 00:34:17 Cooking with her grandmother. 00:36:17 Cooking with her sons. 00:38:44 The kitchen is the center of her house. 00:41:00 Coming to Saratoga and being involved with happenings in town. 00:45:15 The gifted and talented program. 00:46:57 How Sandy's love of writing grew. 00:52:49 Closing comments. 00:54:03 END Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Isabel M.R. Long Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 7/2/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews with Sandra "Sandy" Welter Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 5, 2020 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Skidmore College Language A language of the resource Eng Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sandy Welter Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Isabel M.R. Long Description An account of the resource This life history interview shares the story of Sandra "Sandy" Welter, who worked as director of University Without Wall (UWW) prison program, administrator for the Master of Arts and Liberal Studies (MALS), and English professor at Skidmore College from the early 80s, until she retired in 2017. After a childhood in in East Haven, Connecticut and studies at Elmira College that included a year abroad at Leicester University (UK), Sandy came to Saratoga Springs in the early 70s as a Skidmore College spouse, and worked at Saratoga High School. When teaching in and advising students of the UWW prison program, Sandy supported non-traditional, non-residential graduate and undergraduate students and taught EN 103 (Writing Seminar) for many years. She ended her tenure at Skidmore teaching a travel-writing course, reflecting her own love for travel. https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8f70124767d172aa3e17c690b500df47.jpg bc04b252f635d2b92efea293f5de4f46 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f6331293f1129a858107fdae8e9bd203.m4a 0cca97607c25e906806d1295487a4703 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/6482c638bef5b2281ec0f2094a24b280.pdf 50c34ea47498d565ca1efc2238ff5461 PDF Text Text Jonathan Zeidan ‘12 Interview Log June 6, 2017 00:00:00 Graduated in 2012 00:00:12 Double Majored in Business and Economics and Double Minored in Spanish and Honors 00:00:19 Involved in Student Government and Integrity Board 00:00:30 Lives in San Francisco, from Bay Area 00:00:41 Worked in for Kaiser Permanente and does internal consulting 00:01:07 Will get NBA in Fall at Northwester Kellogg School of Business 00:01:40 London Freshman at Skidmore, went recently traveling in Europe 00:02:02 Went to New Orleans with friends from Skidmore 00:03:00 Still involved with friends and network, core friends, friends I work with 00:03:20 Help other Skidmore alum with jobs 00:03:40 First time back at Skidmore 00:05:00 Student Government story, political discussions. Occupy Wall Street began, 00:05:40 For an Occupy Skidmore event, put on Throughbread costume 00:06:50 Started Thoroughthreads, an ironic humor clothing company with friends 00:07:12 Developed a business plan through major and worked with 5 local businesses 00:10:00 Terrence Blanchard spoke at Graduation 00:10:20 Blanchard was part of Freshman reading for Scribner Seminar 00:10:30 Spoke for Senior Class Gift at graduation 00:11:20 Intro to Business Class is memorable, MB107 with Professor D’abate 00:11:40 First time realized he was smart 00:12:20 Became an MB107 coach 00:12:51 Took a ballet class: Mind, Body & Spirit 00:15:03 Doesn’t miss small beds in dorms 00:15:50 Misses having friends that encourage you to do well and be well 00:16:30 Misses comradery in D-Hall (Dining Hall) 00:17:31 Notice physical changes on campus (ADA compliant walk way) 00:18:45 When a freshman, tried to absorb everything 00:20:00 Used stipend in London 00:21:15 Being Student Government President was meaningful as leader of peers 00:23:50 People come together when it “matters” in terms of political activism 00:24:30 Tensions regarding race relations 00:27:00 Students are transient � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kira Hastings '17 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jonathan Zeidan Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 26/06/2017 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jonathan Zeidan Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 06, 2017 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Business & Management SGA SGA President Student Leader https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e117be41e17e8a6d5e38cdc3d5da0de4.jpg 01baab5a59c6a0dde8bce64de744d146 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/b2d23674ba8ba8fe60349204810c2168.m4a e3a73dd6e8216f0ecca8ec28c5601425 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/aad5143705f35bb29f45707859a67e1a.pdf 3d3f2244e7afcf4b97fd6f96b86cea02 PDF Text Text Millie Tan ‘77 Interview Log June 7, 2017 00:00:03 Class of 1977, from Jackson Heights, Queens, in New York City 00:00:12 Lives in Chapel Hill, North Carolina 00:00:23 Major in History and Minor in Secondary Education 00:00:40 An average week was a mix of classes, studying, and interactions with classmates of all classes 00:01:00 Lived in a co-ed dorm and remembers late night conversations 00:01:35 Remembers a long conversation on world hunger 00:03:50 First thought would be an English major until took a course with Tad Corroda who became mentor 00:02:50 Took courses in Philosophy and branched out in social sciences 00:06:00 Chinese-American parents didn’t read or write Chinese or English 00:06:40 Visited Skidmore, completely different than Queens 00:07:30 Insecure about inexperience to extracurricular that other students had 00:08:38 Skidmore allowed Millie to develop through professors and classmates 00:10:00 Weren’t many minorities, smattering of international students 00:13:00 Didn’t feel that there was much activism 00:14:04 Felt Skidmore was a bubble, everything was possible, little obstacles to make things happen 00:17:145 Social, interpersonal, building aspect had a long impact on Millie 00:18:40 Loves “Creative Thought Matters” 00:19:00 Strong believer in the liberal arts education 00:21:00 Regrets not studying abroad, thought wasn’t affordable 00:22:08 Feeling of serenity on campus 00:23:12 Worked in Dining Hall 00:25:20 At reunion, reconnecting with friends 00:30:50 Skidmore creates a community and hopes that continues   � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Millie Tan Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 26/06/2017 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Millie Tan '77 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 07, 2017 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Alum Diversity History Jackson Heights North Carolina https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/96d12137272ef041decade2b0235ea23.png bfa3a89c88193dbd8a42739878bacc05 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/69c81d86c71260ac31e260f4334f10cf.wav 08826ea66e148b92c70c24904ba5fbff https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c39cd92c8c012043b43b8988499c8a2f.wav 14239f446df7b336ba20f883b64044d8 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/895be384ae0f88a16ac8b3db8b31d7ac.wav 69346efba06f9c69f587f61d7fc9ad85 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/778433f89cf847a405aaabde94d66a42.wav d46c16e416376f97a3b4b24755391edd https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f33efb57f388140987006ace1ccc66d9.wav 954041b8141ef5f53fb2197cabbc2ca2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Pan, Yiyun (Evian), '17 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Anna Zhu Location The location of the interview Saratoga Springs, NY Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. J. Dym Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 14/06/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Anna Zhu Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 2015 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3bce122b764ea6ba4bef43a6d162e506.jpg dade20f81fe2ea7696bbfae2e8147b30 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jan Saglia Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorothea Trufelman, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/cc26cefe6902787734243e39745b0bf0.jpg f06cf85dd3ae28b09279743737b239af Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Three generations of Skidmore, including Elana Scaglia, '15 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/7cf9d4f8806eada1260b61a21e81da53.mp3 8eb704c31241c989b9a5d369e0380876 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9689ad18e91c96bcda526ec460cd5778.docx ca1f1a4bca54d74e201e0cf72440852a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jan Scalia '86 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jan Scaglia '86, Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 3, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio Description An account of the resource During her time at the College, Jan Scalia '86 majored in Studio Art and enjoyed helping with dance activities. In this interview, she discusses her tri-generational family: her mother graduated in '59 and her daughter in '15. She also discusses drinking culture, January term, and a professor "scandal." Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. June 4, 2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 Alhambra alumna alumni art history arts Barclay's caring faculty close-knit community coed Connecticut development dormitory drinking age Elana Scaglia friendships J-Term Jonsson Tower new campus old campus Pat's Saratoga Springs Scribner Village second generation Skiddie Skidmore child Skidmore College Skidmore parent social life tri-generational https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/efc8c15eac9a46497ab0e5edabe7dc8a.jpg 9b8474f88e40e88878009d56330441ee Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Matthew Rosen, '76 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorothea Trufelman, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/3930cfd2ce9c6fabbf9d13b04d9e7f97.mp3 01b2d2713471176bc41514c79cc695fd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Matthew Rosen '76 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Matthew Rosen '76 Interview Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 3, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio Description An account of the resource During his time at Skidmore, Matthew Rosen '76 participated in Student Government as senior class president and played recreational tennis. In this interview, conducted on Alumni Reunion Weekend, Rosen recollects vivid memories on the Wilmarth Dorm fire, where one student died, and the process of choosing Carl Sagan as his class' commencement speaker. Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 alumni arts business cafeteria campus job Carl Sagan Clare Oles class president coed commencement speaker Dean Oles downtown campus history major John Harris lifelong friendship new campus Ohio old campus Peabody dormitory Pete Sipperly Ralph Sciancio reunion weekend SGA Skidmore College Spanish student government tennis tragedy Wilmarth dormitory fire https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e20f32f9d25f8c56cb58d59bc0151c01.jpg 0f156de29d7b56e4389b5034a104be36 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Janet Copeland Eschenlauer, 56 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorothea Trufelman, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9a382b1c56813ac827798d09bd4f2f08.mp3 0bbd541cb344d3f97a30cfa52c21c447 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/7b39ab9034693fbaf8a406e19726aae4.docx 7fdfd2f2d1cb829bdb8a7bad1df71064 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Janet Copeland Eschenlauer '56 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern, '16 Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/06/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Janet Copeland Eschenlauer '56 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 3, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 alumna alumni arts ballet bibs for first year students biology chapel coed dance dormitory downtown campus East House mathematics Melissa Hayden modern dance New Jersey physical education reunion weekend Skidmore College student clubs welcoming community https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/5882d776f20a7a4b1f00d24a3896b0c7.jpg 3166bb475303964fd41c7784615ee8f3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource David Miner, '91 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorothea Trufelman, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2fec22ee965a24a00d538db5dd661498.mp3 8742e22086c7197468182688f23a6cbe https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ee97184191ad81bdd66d082ee1734fde.docx 3b1b8e9ad099424044c915062bf22fb6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed David Miner '91 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/06/2016 Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern, '16 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource David Miner '91 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 3, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 alumni Arthur Miller comedy ComFest David Porter Skidmore College Skidmore marriage student club https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/01c8c8e069acdcecffa6e344b77e5959.jpg a195e2a06751a7ac5b9d5be0cac40e70 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/cd61e3f47c4d2d86d6eea9e9a281a50d.m4a cabdb8a02cdf10bec66aad579bfdbbb4 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/130988402da4559a69388781f8bf6fc4.jpg 00f403913b838a591cd633f077bd9e14 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/18afeba47f4a1654b00b653001a7a78c.jpg 0b0f08762011357edeb8d017a29f63fd https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9d2e9cd941c5068416ab32362a52164c.pdf f3c2858473c3e5cadaa63682b937810f PDF Text Text Liz Laitman Hughes ‘92 and Cathy Laitman Burke Interview Log 00:00:00 Liz Laitman Hughes grew up in Stamford, CT and lives outside of D.C 00:00:13 Cathy Laitman Hughes grew up in Stamford, CT and lives in California 00:00:30 Mom went to Skidmore, Liz Rosenthal Laitman, Class of 1957 00:01:00 Cathy interested in Studio Art and loved Saratoga 00:01:20 First memory of Saratoga was downtown and juxtaposed with the modern campus 00:01:50 Joke that each family member went to three different schools: Mom went when it was all girls. 00:02:00 Mother took cooking class that went to the supermarket to impress men 00:02:40 Cathy came in 1982, when the drinking age kept changing 00:03:03 Was a party and social school when Cathy started 00:04:45 Liz remembers interdisciplinary courses 00:05:20 Beginning of the core curriculum 00:06:30 Liz lived in Moore halls when on campus drinking rules changed 00:07:30 Liz went on tour of Tang 00:08:15 Cathy felt like Saratoga felt like a small town in the 80’s, now is more of a small city 00:12:00 Cathy lived in Howe Rounds freshman year, memories come back like insecurities 00:14:00 Liz majored in Art History and has worked in museums since 00:17:00 Cathy met with college friend years later, and felt like no time passed 00:18:15 First reunion for both Cathy and Liz 00:20:00 Had friends that did music, friends in Bandersnatchers 00:25:22 Cathy appreciated the intimacy of small campus 00:26:00 Both Studio Art minors 00:28:30 Liz always loved museums, went to NYC museums with mom 00:30:25 Liz produces art films 00:33:00 Liz and Cathy’s Skidmore experiences were different 00:36:00 Changes in technology change the college experience 00:36:30 Pay phones in each suite, many suite mates had long distance relationships 00:38:12 Mostly sophomores in Moore Hall 00:40:10 Cathy finds it great to look back and visit years later, “absence makes the heart grow fonder” 00:40:37 Remembering college has changed since Facebook 00:42:00 Wish Mom could see this Skidmore reunion � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Liz Laitman Hughes '92 & Cathy Laitman Burke '86 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data wav Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 26/06/2017 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Liz Laitman Hughes '92 and Cathy Laitman Burke '86 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 3, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/b4f493d322fb53d53350d115432f846d.jpg 08f645048ac2169b988afeaf90d49038 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Randy Abreu, '11 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorothea Trufelman, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/0b179e93a2b299b90cba5833d9f05c3b.mp3 1b38b2b7a436a9443d690d394312c6d4 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9b132b9aca681a587491145bbd0638c1.docx 80a8dcb3e9ead00f78cc4d3d203b1a11 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Randy Abreu '11 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern, '16 Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/06/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Randy Abreu '11 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng,) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 alumni Bronx reunion weekend SGA Skidmore College Skidmore Green student government https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f4fbab6e647d09430ff6d2ebfdea20eb.jpg bd3e791cb07cde14c111602ab788abcd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Javier Calederón, '11 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorothea Trufelman, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/53d97d704a3b14df629200f391a1a83c.mp3 4c766ede4a3637b06174501debd0d05f https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/a487b0b842c677ccc3acc6393741318d.docx be68962a14445128e3d861ee1ab2b51a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Randy Abreu '11 Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern, '16 Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 04/06/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Javier Calderon '11 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e54f87b9607d255c07bda330b49f9c89.jpg 10132045e7f7dbfd3c55690cbfed818e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Emmily de los Santos Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dorothea Trufelman, '16 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/f0db8d37fda539bab37eb53f1aeffe7e.mp3 d7e820716d8d74b1cbd182d9c91b7a7f https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c302153e39d6033635c792dbd86a0f7d.docx 2be272e5dbde72fb38eab824589f24b4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Emmily De los Santos Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Emmily De los Santos, '11 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 4, 2016 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Stern, Rebecca Zosia, '16 alumna alumni Cornel West New York City Saratoga Springs Skidmore Skidmore College sociology Washington Heights https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8f943dc3abc3fc2b13899d761ce66827.jpg 4e09e8950f9b7db28a8c3ef262f9ba65 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/1d4b9f70c8d8a84e034deefa4e02305b.m4a 81f124c905fcaf2bbeff4cc168e0e8ce https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d75d0a3eea3b78dec510fbf2bd8e14da.pdf c59428a0a63fb3144eac3232ee4b5254 PDF Text Text Ann Schapps Schaffer ‘62 Interview Log 00:00:00 Class of 1962 00:00:10 Majored in Romance Languages: Spanish, French, and Italian 00:00:20 When graduated, worked for United Nations in translation 00:00:30 Tutored in Spanish, Italian, and Latin once starting family 00:00:35 Started taking class, “Collecting Art Successfully” 00:00:45 Only took one art history class at Skidmore 00:01:10 Started teaching class on purchasing contemporaty art 00:01:30 Trustee at Montclair Art Museum and a trustee of ICI, trustee at Museum of Modern Art, Co-Chair Photography Council at Guggenheim, and involvement at Tang, Vice President of the National Advisory Council 00:03:00 Interest in culture started at Skidmore: lectures, such as Robert Frost 00:03:30 Gave interviews to prospective students, and donate financially 00:04:20 When bump into other Skidmore alum, a lot of friends in the art world 00:04:51 Opened home to Art History class to see personal contemporary art collection 00:05:20 Likes art that’s photograph based, where what you see is not what you get 00:06:00 When language major, you read the greatest works 00:07:00 Loved sociology and psychology courses 00:07:50 Since all girls school, encouraged to cement solid friendships 00:08:00 Didn’t worry about boys, so went to more lectures, met with Professors instead 00:09:00 Memories of Happy Pappy Weekend, when fathers would come to visit Skidmore 00:09:30 Daily life in dorms: had strict curfews, and spent time in other’s rooms as an international student helped students settle into Saratoga 00:10:15 No phones, fax machines, or computers 00:10:30 Wrote papers, had to white out letters, and retype letters 00:10:45 Spoke to parents max once a week, and maybe now with technology lack of independence 00:12:25 Creative Though Matters has always been underpinning of school, all girls school made that possible, because some girls may have been shy to express opinion with strong male voices in the room 00:13:00 Geared to think that we could do anything 00:16:45 Donated with what her and Ian Berry thought best to learn with at Tang 00:18:10 Even if you don’t see friends for a while, pick up where you left off 00:19:30 Tried to engage his personal background for other students to understand his background 00:22:00 Tries to use his resources now to help others get similar oppurnities   � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ann Schapps Schaffer Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Rebecca Stern Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 26/06/2017 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ann Schapps Schaffer '62 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 6, 2017 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Language A language of the resource English (eng.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rebecca Stern Curating Fraces Young Tang Teaching Museum Romance Languages Skidmore College https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d5538366f008cb9d9fdfa1ededdc588f.jpg 8e49437b6ca6ff787a014ae8a426141a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/9af58930ab3022dbd557d461df978ac9.m4a 63ac0c1fbc6d91a1843413eb244b2bd1 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/ea7ff647cb68fcf5f75bb17c0bed1d50.pdf 56f5fc0a0395a5589a3da22d1db56e7d PDF Text Text Melvis Langyintuo ‘12 Interview Log 00:00:00 From Tamale, Ghana 00:00:10 Double Major in Business & Management and Economics 00:00:20 Lives in Downtown Manhattan and is a trader at Goldman Sachs 00:00:40 At Skidmore involved in International Student body and Student Government 00:01:00 Class President 00:01:20 Currently involved in local Skidmore Happy Hours and an Alum Finance Group 00:01:50 Sister recently graduated from Skidmore 00:02:00 Feels like hasn’t left when comes back to campus 00:02:40 Well aware of things going on at Skidmore 00:03:30 Notices student diversity population has grown 00:04:00 Growing investments in infrastructure 00:04:40 Midnight Dodgeball event freshman year 00:05:55 Took Education Department class, School and Society 00:08:00 Winning first Liberty League Basketball Tournament for Skidmore and repeat senior year 00:09:30 Success of Dodgeball Event spurred interest in SGA 00:11:00 Helped bind community, biggest group of students back for alumni reunion weekend 00:12:30 Academics helped work as a trader and interest in philanthropy 00:13:15 Works for Pencils for Promise, an organization that builds schools in Guatemala Ghana, and Laos. Raised over $120,000 00:15:30 Experience as an international student helped students settle into Saratoga 00:19:30 Tried to engage his personal background for other students to understand his background 00:22:00 Tries to use his resources now to help others get similar oppurnities   � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kira Hastings '17 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Melvis Langyintuo Location The location of the interview Skidmore College Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/06/2017 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Melvis Langyintuo '12 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource June 6, 2017 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Skidmore Saratoga Memory Project Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Audio, Photo Language A language of the resource English, (eng.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rebecca Zosia Stern '16 Description An account of the resource Langyintuo '12 from Tamale, Ghana, graduated with a double major in business and economics and served as class president for four years. He remains connected to Skidmore through local happy hours and an Alum finance group. After his graduation, he started working in Manhattan in finance. He credits his education with preparing him for his current career as a trader at Goldman Sachs. alumni ghana kickball management & business SGA Skidmore College student government https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/fd22abbf2dec4be3a9fa94714f4b4db3.jpg 3d614f426ce070088a45a16e71039534 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Dym, Jordana Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 22/02/2019 Date Depicted (Display) Text version of the date field -- can handle non-numeric characters (ca. 1850s, [1844]). This is the content date field that will display. 3 March 2016 Date Depicted (Numeric) Date that the information on the item depicts. In many cases, this will be the same date as that in the date field, but there will be exceptions. For example, a historical map drawnin 1890 might show Saratoga Springs as it was in 1820. Or, the information on the map itself might include detailed information that enables us to extrapolate a date, for example, "based on a survey done in 1841." Many State Archives map catalog records refer to this as the "situation date." 03/03/2016 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Retiree Memory Project - Interviewing Photo. Renato Donato interviews Leo Geoffrion Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 2016 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived SSMP Subject The topic of the resource oral history SSMP https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/825f37bc4dff08106aa7950383db3a33.jpg f81e9e7a2dad51812add01bdbe36f540 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/284769a83d0a17972911fa5b9b217d0b.m4a 465171a6322e81f9b02c1e4fc888a90a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/724ff6655787aefe8f48aed07a0d4a9c.m4a 1549bb5d751b9315ecd569ec7c45ddc0 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/01f584a9570f9cd3768a28587239732d.txt 3d17847ec511800f3a775e8529ea62ff Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcript 1 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 11, 2020 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8867a37639625ca9caf41650e8d4894d.txt a0f8498804e6ff584a66b38160403e96 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Transcript 2 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 12, 2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Iona Herriott Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed George Koshuta Location The location of the interview Skidmore College (Zoom) Saratoga Springs, New York (Zoom) Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Zoom Recording Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 45 minutes Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Iona Herrriott Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 12/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Life History of George Koshuta Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Iona Herriott Description An account of the resource a life history of George Koshuta that reflects on his experiences as a human being, an athlete, an observer of political history, and a banker. Language A language of the resource English Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Iona Herriott Subject The topic of the resource George Koshuta Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Saratoga Senior Center and George Koshuta Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Podcast, audio/ video Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context family, observations of people, advice Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant His life Date Created Date of creation of the resource. Nov. 11 & 12 , 2020 Access Rights Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies. Iona Herriott Skidmore College License A legal document giving official permission to do something with the resource. Iona Herriott Skidmore College Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Iona Herriott Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 11, 2020 November 12, 2020 oral history fall 2020 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2fc93b3e6157a930e8ffa08fcb6e78dd.png dbcc612dbbc2df743200077e9a390e8e https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/d313d9143388f99bd63787eeaf548bf8.mp3 0e86f11a531aa5615c4cdde8b6892e80 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/15be95dd6f108a50094fb144222def95.mp3 e3148292b0095d1a77b998f992fc0519 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/e0edccae347b859ed50ec17d1c60bbdc.pdf cf0a4d6e6628e302568d61e0e2c0f9f0 https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/c468fb28eb29e5688a547a49a143aef1.pdf 255ed40c497818e0dffda4ea4657e15d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Langyintuo, Kevin Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Daley, Donald Location The location of the interview Zoom ( Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Kevin Langyintuo Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 13/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Donald Daley Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kevin Langyintuo Subject The topic of the resource Retiree Oral History Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Kevin Langyintuo Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Skidmore College Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Mp4 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 2, 2020 November 14, 2020 Description An account of the resource This Oral History is a retelling of World War II Veteran Donald Daleys life from the man himself. He recounts his childhood, his first job, enlisting for the war with friends and his later life. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Abstract A summary of the resource. This is the Oral history of Korean war Veteran Donald Daley. Facilitated by the Saratoga Springs Senior Center, we cover Mr. Daley's life from Childhood all the way to retirement. Baseball basketball Korean War Mechanicville Oral hisotry saratoga senior center Vetran https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/2725b6a59d80f0e3e7afd07e0be898a5.m4a b620e55b68d82edacc500ad540ec10ae https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/7eb6d06fdef2e97afa4d8420d6210a60.pdf b7e39ef16a649ef49a88990981dd41c1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rimmele Wood, '24 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Rachel Clothier Location The location of the interview Zoom (Virtual Interview) Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio recording (MP4) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Rachel Clothier Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 2020 Description An account of the resource Rachel Clothier, Corinth Town Historian, talks about general stores in Saratoga County Language A language of the resource eng Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Clothier, Rachel Wood, Rimmele Subject The topic of the resource Saratoga County (N.Y.) -- History Saratoga County (N.Y.) -- General Stores https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/958441f436c8d73d779bd6a60997213a.jpg 143c139f1e48aa7185ae2dc4a739a6ca https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/516730e0f7f77e0b09b15ee024d501c4.m4a 503aedc03c87c750272724526b7bdb4a https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/410dc76737a349cc3b55d44b0fc7f6c6.m4a 69cb76297528d5b00b219bf1c00280ff https://www.ssmp.mdocs.skidmore.edu/files/original/8205096cf774cf5ba82bb170968ceb6c.m4a 962843fc1926ebfecb00979311834fb3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource Many people who have worked or studied at Skidmore College or lived in Saratoga Springs or the surrounding area carry the memories that help us tell the stories of our communities. This collection offers a glimpse into our past in the voices of those who have shared their stories. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Claire Fink Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Odette Ireland Location The location of the interview Skidmore College and Saratoga Senior Center [Zoom] Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 2 Hours Record Contributor Individual who prepared the item and/or edited it. Claire Fink Record Creation Date Day/Month/Year of record creation/edit 06/11/2020 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Odette Ireland Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource November 6, 2020 Description An account of the resource In this oral history , Ms. Odette Ireland recalls memories including the time during World War II her home was occupied by French soldiers, when she first met her husband, and raising a family. Language A language of the resource English (EN) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Claire Fink Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Claire Fink, Odette Ireland and Elayne Ireland Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Skidmore. College family France oral history fall 2020 preserving our past saratoga senior center World War II